Return of the Jedi-Deleted Scene

[Tannhauser]

That's a good theory I've not considered before.  I wondered why DV was on Tarkin's 'leash'.  Even Palpatine might crap a brick if the DS showed up orbiting Coruscant.

[Morat20]

Ok - I thought that you pulled that name out of your ass...

But apparently you didn't: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gavin_Darklighter

I think he was in the X-wing novels. And more importantly, had was in an Aaron Allston Star Wars novels.  (George Lucas will never defeat my love of the Wraith Squadron novels. NEVER).

[Cyrrex]

Ok - I thought that you pulled that name out of your ass...

But apparently you didn't: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gavin_Darklighter

I think he was in the X-wing novels. And more importantly, had was in an Aaron Allston Star Wars novels.  (George Lucas will never defeat my love of the Wraith Squadron novels. NEVER).

He appeared first in the Rogue Squadron books that Stackpole wrote (which are also very good)...but he is a character that shows up from time to time in many of the later EU books.

[HaemishM]

It's Star Wars.  At this point there's backstory on the skull Luke throws at the Rancor switch by this point.  I just can't be arsed to find it.

Ed: Shit, it was simpler than I thought.  - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bidlo_Kwerve

[Chimpy]

Ok, I like Star Wars. I grew up with the stuff. I consider myself somewhat of a dork.

But  the wacky lore stuff even in this thread makes me shudder.

Some people take their Star Wars waaaaaay too seriously for me.

[WindupAtheist]

That's a good theory I've not considered before.  I wondered why DV was on Tarkin's 'leash'.  Even Palpatine might crap a brick if the DS showed up orbiting Coruscant.

Yeah I don't know as it was planned that way when it was written, but it works. I mean Vader obviously isn't what you'd call trustworthy, and the naval staff is openly exultant at having "the ultimate power in the universe" and probably wouldn't need much encouragement to consider a coup. So you put two authority figures on board. One technically in command, the other with the ability and willingness to kill the first if given a decent excuse, both of whom have large egos and aren't likely to conspire together.

God knows it had to burn Vader's ass to take orders from a muggle by that point.

[DraconianOne]

Yeah I don't know as it was planned that way when it was written, but it works. I mean Vader obviously isn't what you'd call trustworthy, and the naval staff is openly exultant at having "the ultimate power in the universe" and probably wouldn't need much encouragement to consider a coup. So you put two authority figures on board. One technically in command, the other with the ability and willingness to kill the first if given a decent excuse, both of whom have large egos and aren't likely to conspire together.

God knows it had to burn Vader's ass to take orders from a muggle by that point.

Considering what we learnt about the nature of the Sith in the prequels and that Palpatine inferred to Vader about how he killed his master, Darth Plaugeis, while he slept - in retrospect, letting Vader anywhere near the Death Star shows either Palpatine was far too over-confident in Vader's loyalty or that Vader was not enough of an opportunist. Vader, Tarkin, locked room, force choke and a quick story about how Tarkin had released the plans to the rebels and he could have had the keys to the Death Star for himself.

On the other hand, Order 67 was probably a "Take down Vader" command. Or Palpatine took a leaf out of OCP's book and had a secret fourth directive installed in Vader's cybernetic programming.

[Yegolev]

Alright, I can get them on bluray.

[01101010]

God knows it had to burn Vader's ass to take orders from a muggle by that point.

Kool-Aid, when made with enough sugar, will in fact burn the shit out of your sinuses. Good show sir, good show.

[Rishathra]

God knows it had to burn Vader's ass to take orders from a muggle by that point.

Maybe this is just some obscure EU thing, but wasn't Tarkin pretty much the only person in existence that Vader actually respected and admired?

[Merusk]

Well of course. Everyone respects and admires Scorpius, even if he is a bastard.

[WindupAtheist]

I looked up some EU shit just now. Apparently Tarkin was considering rolling up to Coruscant in the Death Star and declaring himself the new boss, with Admiral "Ultimate Power in the Universe!" urging him to hurry up and do it before the Emperor caught on and dealt with them. Vader was sent there to keep an eye on things, and the two shared some small mutual respect. But basically Tarkin considered Vader a weird scary meddler, and Vader considered Tarkin a dumb muggle to be tolerated because the Emperor said so.

I don't know if Vader really could have pulled off the coup himself though. He's not a naval officer, nobody has any special loyalty toward him, and he can't force choke everyone on the Death Star into compliance without them jumping ship or sabotaging things once he's out of the room.

[Ratman_tf]

It's Star Wars.  At this point there's backstory on the skull Luke throws at the Rancor switch by this point.  I just can't be arsed to find it.

Ed: Shit, it was simpler than I thought.  - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bidlo_Kwerve

I should have known. And now I can't unknow. 

[Furiously]

Lorazepam.

[NowhereMan]

After prequels I take it as gospel that the Emperor knew Vader was too whiney and fully of self pity to ever really spend his free time plotting. Instead I think he spent every moment not following the Emperor's orders in his little box looking at home movies of Padme and sighing a lot. Maybe writing bad poetry.

[Cyrrex]

After prequels I take it as gospel that the Emperor knew Vader was too whiney and fully of self pity to ever really spend his free time plotting. Instead I think he spent every moment not following the Emperor's orders in his little box looking at home movies of Padme and sighing a lot. Maybe writing bad poetry.

He still worried about Vader's plotting, but much less than he would have had Vader never been damaged the way he was.  He feigned disgust at his apprentice's weakness (because with the Sith rule of two, the apprentice is meant to eventually grow strong enough to challenge and overthrow his master), but was in truth rather pleased.  He knew that Anakin Skywalker had both the charisma and raw power to overthrow him at some point.  A Mangled Darth Vader had neither.  Palpatine was actually a bit of heretic...he wanted to perserve the Sith line by living forever.  Which doesn't really explain why he wanted to court Luke Skywalker, but nobody ever said all this retconning was airtight.  I suppose he assumed that Luke was young enough that he still had plenty of time before he would be threatened.

[01101010]

He still worried about Vader's plotting, but much less than he would have had Vader never been damaged the way he was.  He feigned disgust at his apprentice's weakness (because with the Sith rule of two, the apprentice is meant to eventually grow strong enough to challenge and overthrow his master), but was in truth rather pleased.  He knew that Anakin Skywalker had both the charisma and raw power to overthrow him at some point.  A Mangled Darth Vader had neither.  Palpatine was actually a bit of heretic...he wanted to perserve the Sith line by living forever.  Which doesn't really explain why he wanted to court Luke Skywalker, but nobody ever said all this retconning was airtight.  I suppose he assumed that Luke was young enough that he still had plenty of time before he would be threatened.

I am no Star Wars connoisseur by any stretch, but in my layman's opinion, I got the impression Palpatine wanted to live forever and just continue to cycle through apprentices much like Tyranus would eventually be killed by pre-Vader, and to that end Luke ending Vader - all while Palpatine keeping the position of Master.

[Cyrrex]

He still worried about Vader's plotting, but much less than he would have had Vader never been damaged the way he was.  He feigned disgust at his apprentice's weakness (because with the Sith rule of two, the apprentice is meant to eventually grow strong enough to challenge and overthrow his master), but was in truth rather pleased.  He knew that Anakin Skywalker had both the charisma and raw power to overthrow him at some point.  A Mangled Darth Vader had neither.  Palpatine was actually a bit of heretic...he wanted to perserve the Sith line by living forever.  Which doesn't really explain why he wanted to court Luke Skywalker, but nobody ever said all this retconning was airtight.  I suppose he assumed that Luke was young enough that he still had plenty of time before he would be threatened.

I am no Star Wars connoisseur by any stretch, but in my layman's opinion, I got the impression Palpatine wanted to live forever and just continue to cycle through apprentices much like Tyranus would eventually be killed by pre-Vader, and to that end Luke ending Vader - all while Palpatine keeping the position of Master.

Yeah, pretty much.  Really, him want to live forever makes complete sense for what a Sith is...the rule of two is kind of silly if you think about it.  No power hungry megalomaniac is really going to want some young upstart to replace him/her.  Darth Bane, who created the rule, technically wussed out himself and decided to shit all over his own rule (he tries to cover it up by convincing himself that his apprentice wasn't worthy).  We don't know yet how long Bane actually lived.  If you take the position that Palpy's story about Plagueis is a lie (which it at least partially is), it is even conceivable that Palpatine is Darth Bane.  Quite a stretch, and I'm sure Lucas would shit all over that idea, but there you go.  Not that I care any longer about what Lucas says...there are literally millions of people who know SW canon far better than he does anyway.

[01101010]

Reading the direction of this thread has me curious now. Could someone point me to a link that describes what happens to the Sith when both are destroyed as technically they were in RotJ? I know Leia's kid became a Sith from what I gleaned off the "wookipedia," but who was the Master after Vader and Palpatine were ended?

[DraconianOne]

In the EU, people are tripping over Sith holocrons and teachings all the time plus it seemed that Vader and/or Palpatine secretly trained half the universe about the Dark Side of the Force.

[Cyrrex]

In the EU, people are tripping over Sith holocrons and teachings all the time plus it seemed that Vader and/or Palpatine secretly trained half the universe about the Dark Side of the Force.

Not technically true, but close enough.  You have types like Lumiya, who was trained by Vader way back in the day, that shows up at various points in the EU (she helped turn Jacen Solo).  There are other old crazy Jedi that turn up every now and then, and are in the sekrit Sith club.  Then, there is still a hidden faction of Sith adhering to the old ways (i.e. no rule of two) on Korriban.  Last but not least, a whole isolated planet of Sith that just regained their space worthiness (this is current EU material).

[WindupAtheist]

After prequels I take it as gospel that the Emperor knew Vader was too whiney and fully of self pity to ever really spend his free time plotting. Instead I think he spent every moment not following the Emperor's orders in his little box looking at home movies of Padme and sighing a lot. Maybe writing bad poetry.

More or less. It wasn't until he found out he had a son (a potentially powerful son whom the Emperor feared) that he regained any of his old pre-suit ambition.

[Fordel]

On the other hand, Order 67 was probably a "Take down Vader" command. Or Palpatine took a leaf out of OCP's book and had a secret fourth directive installed in Vader's cybernetic programming.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Contingency_Orders_for_the_Grand_Army_of_the_Republic:_Order_Initiation,_Orders_1_Through_150

 

[DraconianOne]

In the EU, people are tripping over Sith holocrons and teachings all the time plus it seemed that Vader and/or Palpatine secretly trained half the universe about the Dark Side of the Force.

Not technically true, but close enough. 

[WindupAtheist]

Found a story that illustrates perfectly well how seriously Lucas takes his SW fluff/apocrypha and how everything works over there.

    Jon Stewart: "So, we have pretty much where everyone is from, except for Obi-Wan."
    George Lucas: "Obi-Wan?"
    Stewart: "Yeah, where's he from? What's his home planet?"
    Lucas: "This is something that was one of the first things I wrote in the very first script."
    Stewart: "Really?"
    Lucas: "Yeah, and he comes from the planet Stewjon."

Ha ha, whatever, but then...

This was tweeted on the official Star Wars Twitter feed soon after being said, which led to Star Wars staff, including author Daniel Wallace and Holocron continuity database "keeper", Leland Chee, confirming on their Twitter's that Stewjon will appear in future editions of The Essential Atlas and the Holocron. It can be assumed that this is the actual canon name for the planet because this incident is very similar to Conan Antonio Motti being named after comedian Conan O'Brien by George Lucas, which is confirmed G-canon.

So basically he just walks around going "What's the name of Yoda's dad? Uh... Trashbin Stopsign... Taxicab... the third! Now get outta here!" followed by his slaves announcing a new book about the adventures of Trashbin Stopsign Taxicab III.

[UnSub]

I always knew that Yoda would have father issues. Being Yoda Taxicab made his school life tough, and his father never understood why Yoda wanted to be a Jedi over taking over the family trash compacting business.

[Merusk]

So basically he just walks around going "What's the name of Yoda's dad? Uh... Trashbin Stopsign... Taxicab... the third! Now get outta here!" followed by his slaves announcing a new book about the adventures of Trashbin Stopsign Taxicab III.

To be fair, I think any one of us would do the same.  "I created a story for kids, and you freaks turned it into a religion.  I'd complain but you've made me a billionaire.. so I'm going to fuck with you because this is all incredibly humorous to me.  You sad, sad little man-child." 

[stu]

Whenever I start to think too deeply into Star Wars, I go back to an issue of Star Wars Tales from Dark Horse. Han and Chewie were fleeing in the Millennium Falcon. When they went into warp too early, a glitch occurred, sending them into our galaxy and a crash landing on Earth. Han was immediately arrow-killed by injuns. Chewie escaped and roamed the forests as Sasquatch. Two hundred years pass and Indiana Jones shows up to excavate the derelict ship while Chewie/Sasquatch looks on from a distance. Maybe I have a few details wrong, but that was the jist of the story.

[HaemishM]

Must have been the original script for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. 

[stu]

Yeah it was a bad story, although the art was well done. Like most Lucas stuff, it was up and down. Star Wars Tales wasn't such a bad comic though.

I'll give Lucas one thing. He knows how to hold a grudge. Does anyone else in entertainment dictate terms the way he does, going back and modifying all of his work? Jon Stewart called it "Revenge of the Lucas."

[Musashi]

Must have been the original script for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. 

Would have definitely been an improvement.

[Khaldun]

I kept thinking when I saw this thread, "What scene did the Jedi delete?"

[DraconianOne]

I'll give Lucas one thing. He knows how to hold a grudge. Does anyone else in entertainment dictate terms the way he does, going back and modifying all of his work? Jon Stewart called it "Revenge of the Lucas."

He's made a fuck-ton of cash which means he can afford to do what he likes. The prequels were, essentially, independent films made on a studio budget and distributed by Fox. He gets to call the shots because they're being made with his money.

[stu]

Yeah, you gotta respect the guy. I'd like to see him make those small, experimental films he was talking about doing after Episode III was completed. [An older Wired article you might have already read. Lucas talks about making "tone poems"] Still waiting on that. I'm kinda surprised he hasn't been grooming someone (an apprentice? ) to take over while he just tinkers on small projects. Or maybe there already is someone.

Tough to move on when there's so much cash to be made. I'm guessing he must be trying to keep ahead of Cameron and Peter Jackson, too.

[angry.bob]

As I look over to the shelf containing a dozen different versions of RotJ on VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD I've decided that I've already bought the thing enough times. The new stuff on them is getting less impressive and I really wonder what he'll pull out of his ass for the next super-ultimate version's release in 2-3 years.

Also, that giant corridor they flew down in the DS2 makes perfect sense. The probably used it for space trucks to deliver space drywall deep in the interior and then they'd cover it up when done. Man, think about how much space drywall would be needed in that thing.