Return of the Jedi-Deleted Scene

[Tannhauser]

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/08/16/george-lucas-reveals-never-before-seen-original-opening-to-return-of-the-jedi-at-star-wars-fan-event/

Pretty cool, and somewhat surreal deleted footage Lucas has released.  Spoiled by man-baby going YEAH! into the mic.

[WindupAtheist]

Obligatory WUA post. But yeah, neat.

[Samwise]

Kinda neat, but just as well it didn't make the final cut IMO.  Knowing Luke's plan ahead of time would lessen the tension leading up to the barge scene and kinda ruin the surprise of seeing the lightsaber pop out of R2 at the critical moment.

[Cyrrex]

Kinda neat, but just as well it didn't make the final cut IMO.  Knowing Luke's plan ahead of time would lessen the tension leading up to the barge scene and kinda ruin the surprise of seeing the lightsaber pop out of R2 at the critical moment.

That very scene was a defining moment in my childhood life, so I prefer the original. 

[Slyfeind]

I think that would have been great in the Special Edition.

[K9]

Cool

[Merusk]

It played out a lot better in the novelization than it did onscreen.  Unlike the Luke-Biggs conversations (one of which is still missing) in ANH, this is better served as the "OMG Lightsaber!" way the original edit handles it.

[01101010]

It played out a lot better in the novelization than it did onscreen.  Unlike the Luke-Biggs conversations (one of which is still missing) in ANH, this is better served as the "OMG Lightsaber!" way the original edit handles it.

Wait a minute, there were books 

[DraconianOne]

It played out a lot better in the novelization than it did onscreen.  Unlike the Luke-Biggs conversations (one of which is still missing) in ANH, this is better served as the "OMG Lightsaber!" way the original edit handles it.

Which missing Luke-Biggs conversation? This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aziOgYTGNmU or this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEPQ9OYOPnU ?

[WindupAtheist]

Even if you don't like this, skip to 2:45 and watch from there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKEg6fJ-7P4&feature=player_embedded

[Tannhauser]

It played out a lot better in the novelization than it did onscreen.  Unlike the Luke-Biggs conversations (one of which is still missing) in ANH, this is better served as the "OMG Lightsaber!" way the original edit handles it.

Which missing Luke-Biggs conversation? This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aziOgYTGNmU or this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEPQ9OYOPnU ?

Never seen that footage before, awesome!  I'd like Lucas to put out two Blu Ray versions  of SW; the original theatrical version for the purists and the kitchen sink, CGI version to satisfy him.  But that won't happen.  I'd like to know more about Biggs Darklighter.  Who is he?  How did he meet Luke?  And is he gay?  The black cape?  FABULOUS.

[Merusk]

It played out a lot better in the novelization than it did onscreen.  Unlike the Luke-Biggs conversations (one of which is still missing) in ANH, this is better served as the "OMG Lightsaber!" way the original edit handles it.

Which missing Luke-Biggs conversation? This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aziOgYTGNmU or this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEPQ9OYOPnU ?

I was thinking of the 2nd one.  I didn't realize they'd shot the "Wormy" scene at Tosche Station as well. Nifty.

[DraconianOne]

The one scene I wish had never seen the light of day in the Special Edition ANH was Luke catching up with Biggs in the Yavin base before the Death Star Assault. It was awful on so many levels - acting, dialogue, purpose - and even worse than the scene with Jabba and Boba Fett that got added back in. It was just a case of Spot The Stiff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHGYdOQhu2g

[UnSub]

But that won't happen.  I'd like to know more about Biggs Darklighter.  Who is he?  How did he meet Luke?  And is he gay?  The black cape?  FABULOUS.

Biggs Darklighter is a friend of Luke from Tattooine. He goes off to join the Imperial Academy, decides to flip to the Rebel side after a while and serves them as a pilot.

I knew that off the top of my head. I'm crying now.

[Cyrrex]

But that won't happen.  I'd like to know more about Biggs Darklighter.  Who is he?  How did he meet Luke?  And is he gay?  The black cape?  FABULOUS.

Biggs Darklighter is a friend of Luke from Tattooine. He goes off to join the Imperial Academy, decides to flip to the Rebel side after a while and serves them as a pilot.

I knew that off the top of my head. I'm crying now.

Pssh.  You're not a real nerd.  I could give you the life history of his younger cousin, Gavin Darklighter.

[murdoc]

Ok - I thought that you pulled that name out of your ass...

But apparently you didn't: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gavin_Darklighter

[Hoax]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zd_khk6zXo

[HaemishM]

I'll just leave this here.

Han Solo was supposed to die in the original plans for Return of the Jedi

[WindupAtheist]

I'll just leave this here.

Han Solo was supposed to die in the original plans for Return of the Jedi

Kurtz then spoke about how much he hated their being a second Death Star; how it was just too similar to the first movie. And how his vision for the trilogy’s end would have seen the rebel forces defeated, Princess Leia trying to figure out how to handle her new responsibilities as queen, and Luke Skywalker walking off by himself, like “Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns.”

That sounds terrible. Fuck that guy.

[Ironwood]

How would that even work ?


No.  Don't Answer.

[Ard]

Hey, I'll say this about Jedi, ewoks aside, at least the movie acknowledged the fact that they could just up and build another death star, and that blowing up the first one kinda did nothing in the grand scheme of things.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah. I mean sure it was like the first one, but their evil plot almost worked in the first one except for that damn exhaust port. They'd be even bigger idiots than they were to not just go "Okay try that again, but cover up that fucking hole this time!"

[Tannhauser]

Plus, it's kind of a cool plot for the Emperor.  He built it as bait, knowing that the rebels would never allow a planet killer to become operational.  So it looks unfinished from the outside.  I mean he leaked the info (after killing lots of Bothans to make it look good).

No, RoTJ was good how it went, despite a few fuckups.

[DraconianOne]

Hey, I'll say this about Jedi, ewoks aside, at least the movie acknowledged the fact that they could just up and build another death star, and that blowing up the first one kinda did nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah. Then Revenge of the Sith established that they started building the first Death Star more than eighteen years before it became operational and you wonder if half way through the construction of the first one they said "Hey, you know what would be better than having the ultimate power in the universe? Having two ultimate powers in the universe!"

Or the second one really only did take 6 years or whatever and they set up a committee to investigate what the hell type of shoddy project management was going on with the first one that it took so long.



(I apologise in advance for invoking the inevitable WUA rant about ROTS.  )

[Surlyboi]

Or the second one really only did take 6 years or whatever and they set up a committee to investigate what the hell type of shoddy project management was going on with the first one that it took so long.

Fucking contractors, man. Overtime and over budget.   

[Merusk]

I'll just leave this here.

Han Solo was supposed to die in the original plans for Return of the Jedi

Kurtz then spoke about how much he hated their being a second Death Star; how it was just too similar to the first movie. And how his vision for the trilogy’s end would have seen the rebel forces defeated, Princess Leia trying to figure out how to handle her new responsibilities as queen, and Luke Skywalker walking off by himself, like “Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns.”

That sounds terrible. Fuck that guy.

I went to IMDB to I follow the career path of Lucas vs Kurtz.  tee hee.  Dark Crystal.. Return to Oz... bupkis!   

It sounds awful because it IS awful. The rebels are defeated yet Leia becomes Queen (of what.. the pebbles in space formerly known as Alderaan?) and Luke says "Fuck y'all I'm wandering off to be a monk and masturbate to visions of my sister in a metal bikini!"   

Lando was also supposed to die IIRC but it didn't test well.  That's why you have Han with the whole "last time I'm going to see her" line and the flames appear to engulf the Falcon yet it makes it at the last second.

[DraconianOne]

I went to IMDB to I follow the career path of Lucas vs Kurtz.  tee hee.  Dark Crystal.. Return to Oz... bupkis!   

As opposed to what? Howard the Duck? Captain EO? Tucker? Mishima? Ewoks: Battle for Endor? Lucas isn't without a significant list of failures to his name as a producer either. Most of his film career has basically been either Star Wars or Indiana Jones. Everything else is largely forgettable (and has been forgotten). Except for Willow perhaps. And Labyrinth - although no-one associates him with it.

The thing about Gary Kurtz was that he would say "No" to Lucas. Him and Irvin Kershner. I vaguely recall hearing that it was Kurtz that got Paul Hirsch involved to salvage Lucas' first edit of Star Wars which basically made it the film that got released because it was in such a fuckawful state. After he and Lucas parted ways, Lucas surrounded himself with yes-men and sycophants or people who wouldn't answer back (e.g. Richard Marquand and Rick MacCullum). So he got his own way without having anyone say "No, George, that's a fucking terrible idea."

Having said that, Lucas going after the toy sales may seem like a sellout but it's what let him develop ILM, THX, Skywalker Sound and even Lucasarts and so on. Lucasarts may be being run into the ground but the film related companies are still at the top of their game and still groundbreaking. The modern filmgoer has a lot to thank Lucas for whether they know it or not. Hell, Pixar started out as a department in ILM but Lucas sold it to Steve Jobs to fund his divorce - bet he regrets that now!

[Ratman_tf]

Ok - I thought that you pulled that name out of your ass...

But apparently you didn't: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gavin_Darklighter

There's backstory on that stupid little mouse droid that shows up in a couple of the movies.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MSE-6-series_repair_droid

[Merusk]

I went to IMDB to I follow the career path of Lucas vs Kurtz.  tee hee.  Dark Crystal.. Return to Oz... bupkis!    

As opposed to what? Howard the Duck? Captain EO? Tucker? Mishima? Ewoks: Battle for Endor? Lucas isn't without a significant list of failures to his name as a producer either. Most of his film career has basically been either Star Wars or Indiana Jones. Everything else is largely forgettable (and has been forgotten). Except for Willow perhaps. And Labyrinth - although no-one associates him with it.

No no.. you misunderstand. He did those two then vanished for several years between everything, producing nothing at all worth mentioning.  It goes those two, then '89, '95, '04.  It's one thing to produce flops and another to simply.. not produce.

Ok - I thought that you pulled that name out of your ass...

But apparently you didn't: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gavin_Darklighter

There's backstory on that stupid little mouse droid that shows up in a couple of the movies.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MSE-6-series_repair_droid

It's Star Wars.  At this point there's backstory on the skull Luke throws at the Rancor switch by this point.  I just can't be arsed to find it.

Ed: Shit, it was simpler than I thought.  - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bidlo_Kwerve

[01101010]

There had to be two death stars - the second started as the first prototype was coming online. Or else the dark side really is more powerful.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah. Then Revenge of the Sith established that they started building the first Death Star more than eighteen years before it became operational and you wonder if half way through the construction of the first one they said "Hey, you know what would be better than having the ultimate power in the universe? Having two ultimate powers in the universe!"

Is it the same one? I had kinda assumed the one at the end of ROTS was something the Separatists had built but failed to finish before the end of the war. I mean they had the plans as far back as the end of AOTC, which was the beginning of the war. Surely they must have tried to build one somewhere. There's probably some stupid shit in the EU stating that it is the same one, but whatever.

Or the second one really only did take 6 years or whatever and they set up a committee to investigate what the hell type of shoddy project management was going on with the first one that it took so long.

The first one was built while the Emperor was still humoring the existence of the Senate. (Which must have retained some sort of budgetmaking or oversight power, else there would be no reason for Palaptine to antagonize the populace by shitcanning it.) By the time of the second Death Star, he was operating completely unfettered and could do whatever the fuck he wanted without even bothering to make up lies about it. Presumably funding massive secret military projects is easier under the latter set of circumstances.

Plus there was probably a greater sense of urgency concering the construction of the second Death Star. Remember the rationale for doing away with the Senate was that even though it would increase support for the Rebellion, that wouldn't matter because the Death Star would allow the Empire to rule through fear. By that point their whole political plan revolved around having a giant gun to hold the galaxy hostage with, so I imagine they tried to hurry with the replacement when their original one went kablooey.

(I apologise in advance for invoking the inevitable WUA rant about ROTS.  )

BEST STAR WARS MOVIE! BEST ONE! FUCK YOUUUUU! ARGLEBARGLE!

[Ingmar]

The second something you build is always easier than the first anyway, since you know all the pitfalls and such.

[Tannhauser]

Yeah, instead of a 3 meter exhaust port, they build a tunnel a FREIGHTER can fly through.

I think they missed that pitfall.

[DraconianOne]

Is it the same one? I had kinda assumed the one at the end of ROTS was something the Separatists had built but failed to finish before the end of the war. I mean they had the plans as far back as the end of AOTC, which was the beginning of the war.

An EU nerd might point out that in the novel "Return of the Death Star", Admiral Brillian Tstrategist used the framework of original, original prototype of the Death Star whcih was hidden away from prying eyes in the MadeupN'ame cluster and that's what we see at the end of of ROTS.

I went with the theory that it was a not-really-that-subtle visual easter egg from Lucas pointing out that the Death Star was designed and planned from the beginning of the Clone Wars and that it was all a part of Palpatine's planning. Sure it may have been a Geonosian-and-not-Verpine-ha-ha-fuck-you-EU-canon-nerds idea but I assumed that Darth Summerisle had been in the background going "Well yeah, if you want to design a massive, planet destroying battle station, go for it. I don't know what we'll do with it but I'm sure it'll be handy. No, really, it's not a stupid idea - you should build it. Go on - it'll be a laugh."

There's a cute little comic strip written by Kevin "Troops" Rubio called "A Death Star Is Born" which is about Tarkin proposing the idea of the Death Star to the Emperor. It's quite amusing but I can't find it online except for this page.

EDIT: Allegedly Lucas confirmed that it was the ANH Death Star that was seen according to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Star_Prototype but there's no reference.

[WindupAtheist]

Allegedly Lucas confirmed that it was the ANH Death Star that was seen according to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Star_Prototype but there's no reference.

Eh, I'll buy that. Something that large and complex, and new technology to boot? Could take 20 years to put together in secret with a not-completely-toothless Senate still hanging around. Then once you've already worked out the problems building the first one, the Senate is history, and it's a top priority because it's the lynchpin of your whole political strategy, the second one takes a fraction of the time to build.

As an aside, I always got the impression that Vader was aboard the DS in order to keep Tarkin from getting any kooky ideas on who should be running the show once he was in command of the biggest gun in the universe. And to a limited extent, vice-versa, or else why not just put Vader in command of the whole thing?