iPad

[Quinton]

I think, if anything, ipad is further justification for the netbook market.  It's Apple acknowledging that inexpensive, portable computing is something for which there's a lot of demand.  It's interesting to see them wade into the $500 price range, where previously they were highly dismissive of anything that cheap being any good at all. 

It's also interesting to compare features -- you can get some pretty impressive little machines in the $300-500 market these days.  Machines with 160+GB of storage.  Machines that can play HD video and video games.  Machines that come standard with wordprocessor, spreadsheet, etc, not requiring you to pay extra for those.  Machines that you can write software *on* not just buy software for.

Sure, they're not 1.5lbs and machined from a single piece of aluminum, but it's possible that that's not the only criteria for awesome at the $500 price point.

[tgr]

I'm personally thinking about getting some sort of e-book thingy, but I'm not sure the kindle dx size is really all that useful. It strikes me as too big, normal pocketbook size should probably suffice just fine, as that actually fits into the pockets I usually have available. iPad strikes me as way too big for that. It also strikes me as awkward for use literally anywhere except when you stick it in the keydock, or when used as a showoff device (look at how hip I am to have this device to show off my pictures with which isn't a PC!). Not for serious use when on the move.

[AutomaticZen]

I'm personally thinking about getting some sort of e-book thingy, but I'm not sure the kindle dx size is really all that useful. It strikes me as too big, normal pocketbook size should probably suffice just fine, as that actually fits into the pockets I usually have available. iPad strikes me as way too big for that. It also strikes me as awkward for use literally anywhere except when you stick it in the keydock, or when used as a showoff device (look at how hip I am to have this device to show off my pictures with which isn't a PC!). Not for serious use when on the move.

I personally feel if you're going for the Kindle DX, wait.  An iPad, Notion Ink Adam, and somesuch in that case will probably do more for you at the same size and weight.  The Kindle 2 on the other hand is the perfect weight for extended one handed reading.  I'd probably give a bit more leeway to an iPad of that size, but I can't see why Apple would ever do that.

[tgr]

Kindle 2 strikes me as the perfect size for reading on the bus. Only thing is maybe get that flash fixed and higher resolution on the display itself.

[waffel]

http://gawker.com/5474900/what-steve-jobs-said-during-his-wall-street-journal-ipad-demo

Few gems from the article:

But he also called Flash a "CPU hog," a source of "security holes" and, in perhaps the most grievous insult a famous innovator can utter, a dying technology. Jobs said of Flash, "We don't spend a lot of energy on old technology."

What about quicktime?

At the Journal, Jobs claimed the iPad's battery performance would be degraded from 10 hours to 1.5 hours if it had to spend its CPU cycles decoding Flash, we're told. That sounds like an unfair comparison; the iPad would unlikely achieve its advertised 10 hours of maximum battery life while continuously playing video of any sort, iPad optimized or not.

Wow.

[Venkman]

We know the whole thing is bs. Ergo, any sort of retcon/justification stated to any audience is bs. There's nothing technical that prevents support for Flash. They just don't want people doing for free what they'd rather charge them for.

Additionally, they talk about Flash with regards to video a lot, and the lack of Flash video support on the iPhone hasn't been a killer. They just coded a YouTube app around it.

So if the Flash topic is predominantly about Flash video, then this won't be a huge issue. For me, it just sucks you won't be playing Facebook or Miniclip games on this almost-a-tablet. But that goes back to the why of it all. And honestly, there's more than enough crap in the App Store to supplement the vast majority of crappy Flash games.

You just get to the stuff differently.

[naum]

We know the whole thing is bs. Ergo, any sort of retcon/justification stated to any audience is bs. There's nothing technical that prevents support for Flash. They just don't want people doing for free what they'd rather charge them for.

Additionally, they talk about Flash with regards to video a lot, and the lack of Flash video support on the iPhone hasn't been a killer. They just coded a YouTube app around it.

So if the Flash topic is predominantly about Flash video, then this won't be a huge issue. For me, it just sucks you won't be playing Facebook or Miniclip games on this almost-a-tablet. But that goes back to the why of it all. And honestly, there's more than enough crap in the App Store to supplement the vast majority of crappy Flash games.

You just get to the stuff differently.

No.

Flash sucks, is a CPU pig, and while may run OK on Windows machines, is not OS X friendly at all. My machine hums along, and I can tell when my browser stumbles across a site with flash when I hear my machine start whirling. While Mr. Jobs might be exaggerating, he's not off the mark in assessing that most all the browser crashes are triggered by Flash plugin.

Now, there's arguments to be made whether Adobe has made a sincere enough effort to optimize Flash runtime on OS X or any OS other than Windows (Flash sucks even worse on Linux) or if as they claim, Apple doesn't let them dive down far enough into the machine internals to provide a more pleasant Flash experience). But Apple can take the posture that Flash is not needed because:

(A) H264 minus Flash is better quality video anyway (BTW, is all that YouTube "app" is doing — it will play just fine from the Safari browser or any other app).

(B) For games, why would one prefer a glitchy, jerky Flash game over a native app, especially when there is a major game maker and/or independent game in any of those genres that far exceed any Flash game.

[Righ]

But he also called Flash a "CPU hog," a source of "security holes" and, in perhaps the most grievous insult a famous innovator can utter, a dying technology. Jobs said of Flash, "We don't spend a lot of energy on old technology."

What about quicktime?

What about it? Quicktime isn't a format - it's a trade name for a framework that provides access to what are primarily third-party codecs that are licensed by Apple. You can use any viewer application that has Quicktime hooks to access those codecs and you can use non-Quicktime applications and codecs to read the formats that Quicktime does because there's no proprietary formatting involved. Flash just writes non-standard files that use other peoples' codecs (usually grossly out of date versions) so that you have to use their viewer. I'm no fan of Quicktime, particularly the 'Player' app, but I'll take it over Flash any day.

[Venkman]

Wait, what? We actually agree here. We're just arguing it from different angles.

• Me: Apple doesn't want to care about Flash for reasons that have more to do with business than with tech.
• You: Technical reasons why Apple shouldn't care about Flash.

We completely agree on there being better video experiences (particularly H.264 once HTML5 takes hold) and better game play experiences (native apps). But it's not like Apple is backing these merely because their underlying tech provides a better user experience. It's because they don't want to use someone else's proprietary player and don't want to shift focus away from revenue-generating apps.

Personally, I can't see Flash doing anything better on an iPhone that a native app couldn't do better anyway. And there's certainly no shortage of app developers.

[schild]

I hope my iPad was made by 15 year olds making 20 cents an hour.

[Sheepherder]

Does it say something about me that whenever you post one of those cryptic comments Schild I immediately Google it in anticipation of massive win?

[schild]

I meant to post the link to the article about Apple's cheap fucking factories hiring kids because it's all about the bottom dollar. Oh, and slave wages.

Edit: Here you go:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/27/apple-supplier-audit-reveals-sub-minimum-wage-pay-and-records-of/

I'd say it's massive win, imo. Considering people make Apple out to be more than just another corporation.

[Venkman]

Wow. Amazing. A CE company is making stuff where labor is cheap and with (far) less regulations than the U.S.

Welcome to the backbone of a consumer economy. And to 1986.

Yea, I'm sure there might be a few Macolites who are surprised iPads aren't manufactured by 20-somethings at their climate-controlled desks between three hour breaks during their 15 hour work weeks. But this special brand of niavete is relegated only to those who've never even bothered to ask how stuff goes from design to retailer inventory. And this kind of "discovery" can't really get much media coverage because everything happens this way. Everything.

[naum]

I meant to post the link to the article about Apple's cheap fucking factories hiring kids because it's all about the bottom dollar. Oh, and slave wages.

Edit: Here you go:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/27/apple-supplier-audit-reveals-sub-minimum-wage-pay-and-records-of/

I'd say it's massive win, imo. Considering people make Apple out to be more than just another corporation.

Some reading comprehension is in order here.

Please, if you are in favor of child labour and worker exploitation, the best thing you could do is express your outrage at Apple for independently auditing, investigating, and punishing their suppliers for these practices.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/02/27/apple_taken_to_task_for_reporting_partners_child_labor_violations.html

In other words, Apple getting raked over the coals for performing their own self-discovery of contracted companies.

Unlike most companies, Apple actually bothered to investigate their suppliers and uncover these abuses rather than simply taking them at their word.

[Engels]

I wonder how Dell, for example, stacks up by comparison.

[Musashi]

Dude.  Not a good comparison.

Also, although I love to hate Apple, that report did not illicit hatred.  It painted them as at least trying to do the right thing.  And that's more than I can say for most.

[Venkman]

Dude.  Not a good comparison.

Why not? Dell is manufacturing all their own boards, cases, drives and other components right here in the good ol' U S of A?

[naum]

Dude.  Not a good comparison.

Why not? Dell is manufacturing all their own boards, cases, drives and other components right here in the good ol' U S of A?

Prison Like Conditions for Workers Making IBM, Dell, HP, Microsoft…

Chinese factory workers are working in prison-like conditions for 41 cents an hour to make computer parts for IBM, Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo and Dell, a report claims.

US organisation the National Labour Committee (NLC) found 2,000 workers at the Meitai factory work an average of 74 hours a week, for a base wage of 64 cents an hour. This drops to 41 cents an hour after room and board is removed.

The workers, mostly young women aged from 18 to their mid-20s, are not allowed to talk, listen to music, look around them, put their hands in their pockets, or go to the toilet unless it is an official break.

Workers are encouraged to monitor each other and are fined if they break rules. These include being one minute late for a shift or putting personal items on a work desk.

On the assembly line, a keyboard passes each worker every 7.2 seconds. The worker has to snap six or seven keys into place in that time.
Prison sentence

The NLC visited the factory between June and September 2008 and in January this year. One worker said, "I feel like I am serving a prison sentence. We are really livestock and should not be called workers."

The Meitai Plastics and Electronics factory in Dongguan City, Guangdong Province, China, makes keyboards and other equipment for Dell, HP, IBM, Microsoft, and Lenovo.

http://www.nlcnet.org/article.php?id=613

[RhyssaFireheart]

You know, I never quite understood the issue with wages companies pay in other countries.  I mean the outrage that gets generated with "OMG!  These workers are only being paid $0.41 AN HOUR!!!11!! to make these items for us! HORROR!!"  Except that there is rarely any conversion showing how much that is in local currency and/or what a typical or comparable wage really is.  It's information given in somewhat of a vacuum in order to rile people up, specifically Americans who think everyone in the world should make $15+/hour, be unionized (because that's the shiznit!), and get 15 minute breaks everyone other hour.  It makes no sense.

I'm all for decent working conditions and not treating workers like slaves, but that whole salary thing just baffles me.  It's as if people think those workers should be treated like union autoworkers because that's the bestest work environment evah while completely ignoring that kind of thinking helped to completely fuck over the US automakers.

Or maybe it's just me.

[Merusk]

Oh no.. fined for being late to work!

Americans have had this 'the work day starts when I want it to, not my employer' attitude going for a while now. It's getting worse just when it's easiest to export those jobs elsewhere.

Oh, and factory work sucks.  Always has, always will. Particularly the unskilled jobs like, oh... pushing keys into a keyboard.

[naum]

You know, I never quite understood the issue with wages companies pay in other countries.  I mean the outrage that gets generated with "OMG!  These workers are only being paid $0.41 AN HOUR!!!11!! to make these items for us! HORROR!!"  Except that there is rarely any conversion showing how much that is in local currency and/or what a typical or comparable wage really is.  It's information given in somewhat of a vacuum in order to rile people up, specifically Americans who think everyone in the world should make $15+/hour, be unionized (because that's the shiznit!), and get 15 minute breaks everyone other hour.  It makes no sense.

I'm all for decent working conditions and not treating workers like slaves, but that whole salary thing just baffles me.  It's as if people think those workers should be treated like union autoworkers because that's the bestest work environment evah while completely ignoring that kind of thinking helped to completely fuck over the US automakers.

Or maybe it's just me.

Labor conditions circa 19th century style.

12 hours shifts, 6-7 days a week, with just barely enough compensation to pay for company provided room and board. And which typically involves a "prison-like" fence and gate structure.

Not to mention the coercion of young females, completely dominated by bossman (i.e., rapes, forced abortions, etc.…).

Yeah, not the case in 100% of contracted manufacturing. But well documented, and indeed the case in a good number instances.

But Americans don't want to hear about this.

We didn't banish slavery and oppressive factory overlords — we just basically enacted a don't ask don't tell exporting of the practice.

[Samwise]

Dude.  Not a good comparison.

Why not?

Because Dell is at least passing the savings on to us instead of spending it on $900 black turtlenecks.  

[schild]

Hm, this thread didn't go where I expected. I was making a throwaway comment. I'm not really raged or anything. However, one thing stood out:

It painted them as at least trying to do the right thing.

This is what they want people to say. Fuck right off with that.

[Sheepherder]

One would think the time for vigilance would be before they set up a manufacturing network and began production, otherwise it looks sort of sordid.

[Samwise]

But then they wouldn't be able to reap the profits and then have people say "well, at least they tried to do the right thing"!

[Quinton]

Consumer electronics is pretty crazy price competitive and consumers are very sensitive to price.  I don't think it's practical to build mass market consumer electronics locally and hit the kind of prices people want to pay.  The process ends up being too labor intensive and labor is expensive.  Which ends up meaning "manufacture it in China" or the like.

Apple obviously takes a lot of heat because they're larger and they have a "green" image they try to project, but I think they do deserve some credit here for actively auditing their manufacturers and pushing them toward policies more palatable to the western world (even if some would argue they don't go far enough). 

[Musashi]

Hm, this thread didn't go where I expected. I was making a throwaway comment. I'm not really raged or anything. However, one thing stood out:

It painted them as at least trying to do the right thing.

This is what they want people to say. Fuck right off with that.

I'm not sure what you mean.  Who is they?

[Sheepherder]

(even if some would argue they don't go far enough)

Or, you know, they've exposed themselves so they can have their cake and eat it too.  Smart money says they don't go through transaction and employment records to make sure everyone retroactively gets a raise for the time they put in.  Also likely that they'll drop these manufacturers after they're done their run of production and move on to the next set (or an allied manufacturer) without checking for suitable employment standards before production begins.

So, they're "not as bad" as Dell or whoever the fuck you want to single out because they apparently care enough to check for shit like this long after they've started doing business.  Also, since I figure you can expect the workers at these factories to eventually get a raise (you know, after all the negotiations and paperwork goes through) these workers will have a few weeks of pure bliss until production on keyboards or whatever comes to an end and they all get laid off.  Also, a week later the manufacturer will exit the market citing economic hardship, sell off all of it's assets to a corporation that materialized a week before.   The new corporation will gladly honour all the contracts of the old, except labour who were laid off.  But you know, we've got positions open, you might want to walk inside and talk with the foreman...

[naum]

(even if some would argue they don't go far enough)

Or, you know, they've exposed themselves so they can have their cake and eat it too.  Smart money says they don't go through transaction and employment records to make sure everyone retroactively gets a raise for the time they put in.  Also likely that they'll drop these manufacturers after they're done their run of production and move on to the next set (or an allied manufacturer) without checking for suitable employment standards before production begins.

So, they're "not as bad" as Dell or whoever the fuck you want to single out because they apparently care enough to check for shit like this long after they've started doing business.  Also, since I figure you can expect the workers at these factories to eventually get a raise (you know, after all the negotiations and paperwork goes through) these workers will have a few weeks of pure bliss until production on keyboards or whatever comes to an end and they all get laid off.  Also, a week later the manufacturer will exit the market citing economic hardship, sell off all of it's assets to a corporation that materialized a week before.   The new corporation will gladly honour all the contracts of the old, except labour who were laid off.  But you know, we've got positions open, you might want to walk inside and talk with the foreman...

Sadly, good probability that this is what pans out.

Indeed, the manufacturing of image has supremacy over actual reality.

[K9]

soooooo

Did anyone purchase one of these yet?

[Signe]

No, but I might later.  For on top of the coffee table where the coffee table books people give us that we don't want sit.  I think it'll look nice there.

[naum]

soooooo

Did anyone purchase one of these yet?

Eh, if money wasn't so tight right now… …and didn't have need of a new television also… …really want one, but it hard to justify plunking down cash for something that is mostly going to be a coffee table/bedroom luxury…

[Trippy]

I was going to wait until the price dropped (I'm assuming there will be one in the Fall before school starts) to decide if I wanted to get my own but now I can get one through the company I work for so I'll be getting a maxed out 3G model when those become available

[Prospero]

Mine will be waiting for me at work on Monday.

[Venkman]

I'm waiting for the 3G version before considering it. I want one, but now we're buying a new house, so I've capped my spend policy