iPad

[naum]

Why do people think the Mac OS is any easier to use than the PC? It isn't. It's still double click. It's still folder structures. It's still utility programs for doing just about anything. It's still logins, installations, bugs, viruses, etc.

My XP with family and friends does not conclude this.

There are a few gotchas with OS X (most notably, that OS X is more "windows-esque" in that clicking the red X closes a "window" and not the application like it does in Windows, and a more nasty un-Apple-esque UI foible in that some applications, new users who inadvertently click this little tabby deal lose the command-icon dashboard bar, and remain puzzled how to get it back (you tap the button again, but if you didn't know that already…)), but on the whole a much superior UI experience for users at all levels…



√ …as stated, iTunes and iPhoto, while much to the chagrin of power users, are drop dead simple to use compared to traditional Windows apps (yeah, Windows has made great strides in this regard, but they're in tortoise-hare mode in this regard.

√ …have to call bullshit on the viruses — I've been using Macs since 2003 and have never ever seen a virus on a Mac (and have worked in all Mac (excepting a few sales people) shops, entire house has macs, and about 1/3 of folks use Macs at current job site). In that time frame, I cannot count how many Windows users whose machines have been totally compromised, heavily spyware/malware infected, etc.… …not saying it's a 100.0% guarantee on Mac platform, but it's exceedingly a rare anomaly.

√ …ditto on the "bugs" claim. Again, not 100% but far superior than Windows and generally speaking, the slogan about Macs being for people that want to work with their machine instead of on their machine is spot on. And I write this is somebody that used to build my boxes, partition discs, run Linux OS variants, roll up my Linux implementation, and still do this on server platforms. For my home machines, tired of this tinkering and Mac platform is about "don't make me think" as can be (at least compared to market alternatives at this point in time).

√ …desktop friendly UNIX with the most aesthetically appealing display. Anti-aliasing works best on Mac displays, as my poor eyesight is sensitive — looking at Windows displays or worse, Linux font rendering is like going back to B&W television from color TV (or to standard resolution from HD).

Sorry, don't mean to transform this thread into another exhausted Mac v. PC diatribe…

[Surlyboi]

When the time comes, drop by your nearest Apple store and try one. Then you can come back here and rip it apart or praise it to high heaven.

Oh, hai Mac traditional 'hands on' marketing technique - "DON'T ASK WHAT'S INSIDE AND WHAT IT'S FOR LOOK AT THE SPARKLY LIGHTS AND THE SEXY SLEEKNESS OMG YOU SO WANT ONE NOW DON'T YOU LOOK APPLESTORE IS NEAT WOW"

 

Wow, that was that saddest little rant I've seen here in some time.

[Mattemeo]

Wow, that was that saddest little rant I've seen here in some time.

I think you've mistaken a bit of gentle hyperbole with ranting there, chap!   

[ghost]

Mac is infinitely easier to use than Vista, however I think that Windows 7 is very nice.  Definitely a major upgrade from Vista.  I think a lot of Mac's reputation stems from the fact that their machines are stable, not necessarily because of the OS but because they don't have thirty thousand products out there that have different drivers being churned out from every corner of the earth to fuck it up.  There are a limited number of hardware items that are supported and Apple can do a better job of preparing drivers for these items.  Also, many PCs come pre-loaded with so much crapware designed to "fix" flaws in the Windows system that most of the systems are doomed right from the start.  My Sony laptop sucked until I did a clean install. 

[Sky]

The announcement got people talking about this device as if there's this huge established mass market for netbooks and Tablet PCs. There isn't.

I'm seeing a ton of people, especially teens and early twenties, bringing them into the library.

Seniors: also spending a LOT more time helping seniors who have new laptops their kids/grandkids bought them so they could receive email and pictures of the carpet rats.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm sorry, but Apple's marketing has made it painstakingly clear to me that I'm not enough of a hipster douchebag faggot to overspend on a computer that won't run any games but has some nice tools for editing home movies or whatever. Also, I don't seem to have the same crashes-ten-times-a-day version of Windows as that fat guy they use to tell me what an idiot I am for not buying their shit.

[ghost]

Clearly you know how to surf porn safely, WUA.

[Samwise]

I'm sorry, but Apple's marketing has made it painstakingly clear to me that I'm not enough of a hipster douchebag faggot to overspend on a computer that won't run any games but has some nice tools for editing home movies or whatever. Also, I don't seem to have the same crashes-ten-times-a-day version of Windows as that fat guy they use to tell me what an idiot I am for not buying their shit.

    

[naum]

…Also, I don't seem to have the same crashes-ten-times-a-day version of Windows as that fat guy they use to tell me what an idiot I am for not buying their shit.

Hey, leave John Hodgman alone…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1JIa5r5nkE

[Morat20]

Clearly you know how to surf porn safely, WUA.

Way more true than it should be. You need the computer equivilant of condoms to surf porn on a PC -- firewalls, on-access scanners, shit guarding your Windows settings....

That should be Mac's new slogan: "Mac, because internet porn's better bareback".

[Tarami]

It'd sadly be true for any OS with a 90% market share, regardless of underlying architecture. Even condoms are dangerous in the hands of small children.

[Morat20]

It'd sadly be true for any OS with a 90% market share, regardless of underlying architecture. Even condoms are dangerous in the hands of small children.

lol. Try telling any fans of small-fry architecture, or web browsers, or anything that their lack of problems aren't because of flawless application or their competition's flawed approaches --- but because a lot fewer people bother trying to fuck them over.

[Sheepherder]

Wow, that was that saddest little rant I've seen here in some time.

"Go to the Mac store and cradle one in their arms and gently rock it back and forth," is the most dickless endorsement of a product I've seen in some time.

You know what would make it an excellent product?  The same thing, made watertight and impact resistant, with something to protect the screen.  That would be a fucking near perfect tablet PC, with an obvious purpose.  Buy hey, I'm sure you'll grow to love your iPad, welcome it into your household, and integrate it into your lifestyle.

[Trippy]

Wow, that was that saddest little rant I've seen here in some time.

"Go to the Mac store and cradle one in their arms and gently rock it back and forth," is the most dickless endorsement of a product I've seen in some time.

You know what would make it an excellent product?  The same thing, made watertight and impact resistant, with something to protect the screen.  That would be a fucking near perfect tablet PC, with an obvious purpose.  Buy hey, I'm sure you'll grow to love your iPad, welcome it into your household, and integrate it into your lifestyle.

Don't be a fucking idiot. It's fine to hate to on the iPad but don't ask it to be something so wildly different.

Oh and BTW the thing you are asking for costs > $3000.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-toughbook-h1-field-makes-pansies-of-those-other-tabl/

[naum]

Wow, that was that saddest little rant I've seen here in some time.

"Go to the Mac store and cradle one in their arms and gently rock it back and forth," is the most dickless endorsement of a product I've seen in some time.

You know what would make it an excellent product?  The same thing, made watertight and impact resistant, with something to protect the screen.  That would be a fucking near perfect tablet PC, with an obvious purpose.  Buy hey, I'm sure you'll grow to love your iPad, welcome it into your household, and integrate it into your lifestyle.

Don't be a fucking idiot. It's fine to hate to on the iPad but don't ask it to be something so wildly different.

Oh and BTW the thing you are asking for costs > $3000.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-toughbook-h1-field-makes-pansies-of-those-other-tabl/

Oh, for a lot less $, my OLPC was fairly durable — I even tested it by bouncing it off the floor…

Too bad I couldn't type on it (to be fair, keyboard meant for elementary school age fingers)… …and worse, when used in eBook mode, I would be frustrated, wanting to touch the screen to control (yeah, iPhone had infected my brain already…)…

[Sheepherder]

Don't be a fucking idiot. It's fine to hate to on the iPad but don't ask it to be something so wildly different.

The tablet form factor is effectively only good at being durable and usable while standing, and exposes the screen to gouges and scuffs.  It makes no fucking sense to make one that's not meant to be more durable than the average laptop, unless it's small enough that you can slide it into a pocket.  The iPad is an exercise in design looking for a purpose.

[Venkman]

Err, so are most CE products. Consumer product design is all about design looking for a purpose. Nobody has asked for an iPad any more than they asked for a Tablet PC or an iPhone or smart phones or any of the other evolutionary products that follow the introduction of a new thing.

Design is only about "solving problems" in specialized cases. Most other times it's about filling store shelves and credit cards.

Having said that, I agree with Trippy on the underwater uses of the iPad. As in, no. It is designed to be used on the couch for specific use cases that don't require you to be compiling code or access your server files or gene sequencing or whatever the heck else people claim they can "just do on a laptop instead" while they're sitting on their couch flipping channels.

[Simond]

Everyone knows that AmigaDOS/Workbench is the One True OS/GUI combination anyway. 

[Surlyboi]

Wow, that was that saddest little rant I've seen here in some time.

"Go to the Mac store and cradle one in their arms and gently rock it back and forth," is the most dickless endorsement of a product I've seen in some time.

Other people have said it, but I will echo the sentiment. Don't be a fucking idiot.

Also, that wan't what I said. I said try one, THEN praise it or bash it. Reading for comprehension is your goddamn friend.

[Tale]

I'm lying on my bed in the morning, typing this on a Samsung NC10 netbook purchased a year ago, which has become my main computer.

It runs XP and has a very comfortable keyboard. I use it at home for website editorial work, everyday tasks/research and entertainment (even played EQ1 on it when I was sick and bored). I've taken it travelling with me twice. I watched seven episodes of 24 on it recently.

It gives at least 4 hours per battery charge, usually 5 hours. It resumes very fast from hibernation. I've put it through hell and it never skips a beat.

I'm definitely now part of the netbook market and there must be many people like me. But the iPad is unappealing. The advantage of this little XP netbook is it's a real computer with a real-feeling keyboard, so it's consistent with my computer at work. The iPad is only consistent with iPhones and while I could watch the episodes of 24, I couldn't alt-tab to my email and work tools like I can on my netbook.

[eldaec]

Everyone knows that AmigaDOS/Workbench is the One True OS/GUI combination anyway. 

GUIs are for pansies.

VAX VMS or get out.

[Sheepherder]

Also, that wan't what I said. I said try one, THEN praise it or bash it. Reading for comprehension is your goddamn friend.

Yeah, I got what you said, it was just retarded and didn't dignify a serious response.  Hence me making fun of it.  You don't need a Mac store to know whether you want an iPad.  But since you're evidently unable to reason it out for yourself:

The thing is too heavy to be held like a book.  It could be held like a clipboard if you're willing to have it braced against your chest constantly to avoid it putting stress on your wrist.  The wrist strain problem could have been solved with a strap and/or handle that lets you better secure it to your forearm, or with a no-slip rubber coating on the back; but it's too trendy for those concessions to usability.  It's entirely inferior to a laptop for use while sitting or at a table, and inferior to the iPhone for portability and use while standing.  It's storage capacity is pitiful, it's OS is restrictive, you have to use Apple's bullshit dock if you want to plug something in to it, and it's $200 too expensive for a device to surf the web while you watch TV.

This thing is made obsolete by Apple's own fucking iPhone, that's how hard it fails.

[naum]

Also, that wan't what I said. I said try one, THEN praise it or bash it. Reading for comprehension is your goddamn friend.

Yeah, I got what you said, it was just retarded and didn't dignify a serious response.  Hence me making fun of it.  You don't need a Mac store to know whether you want an iPad.  But since you're evidently unable to reason it out for yourself:

The thing is too heavy to be held like a book.  It could be held like a clipboard if you're willing to have it braced against your chest constantly to avoid it putting stress on your wrist.  The wrist strain problem could have been solved with a strap and/or handle that lets you better secure it to your forearm, or with a no-slip rubber coating on the back; but it's too trendy for those concessions to usability.  It's entirely inferior to a laptop for use while sitting or at a table, and inferior to the iPhone for portability and use while standing.  It's storage capacity is pitiful, it's OS is restrictive, you have to use Apple's bullshit dock if you want to plug something in to it, and it's $200 too expensive for a device to surf the web while you watch TV.

This thing is made obsolete by Apple's own fucking iPhone, that's how hard it fails.

That's not the testimony of folks that have actually gotten their hands on one.

I didn't get the iPhone either until I got one and post-iPhone, every other phone is like going back to B&W television (at least until recent round of iPhone knockoffs, no not Palm Pre but Droids and Nexus).

And as a developer that's tinkered a bit with the SDK, there's realms of yet to be imagined and implemented apps that leverage the affordances of multitouch and a larger screen.

Yeah, it's definitely not for everybody and really doesn't compete in the netbook space in many aspects. And it's definitely overpriced, but just like iPhone, I expect that price to be less than $300 or even $200 within a year.

But it's not the same thing as the Windows tablets touted in earlier posts. Anyone saying otherwise is spouting out of pure ignorance.

[Sheepherder]

That's not the testimony of folks that have actually gotten their hands on one.

I didn't get the iPhone either until I got one and post-iPhone, every other phone is like going back to B&W television (at least until recent round of iPhone knockoffs, no not Palm Pre but Droids and Nexus).

Thanks for deflecting this back to the chicken and egg argument.  You'll have to forgive my cynicism, but it's in the title of the board: what exactly about a bigger screen makes it iPhone++, rather than the most comically fuckstupid product release I've seen in a while?  No, don't deflect back to the "you'll just have to feel it," we've already established that you're not going to sell me shit if I don't know it's purpose beforehand.

[naum]

That's not the testimony of folks that have actually gotten their hands on one.

I didn't get the iPhone either until I got one and post-iPhone, every other phone is like going back to B&W television (at least until recent round of iPhone knockoffs, no not Palm Pre but Droids and Nexus).

Thanks for deflecting this back to the chicken and egg argument.  You'll have to forgive my cynicism, but it's in the title of the board: what exactly about a bigger screen makes it iPhone++, rather than the most comically fuckstupid product release I've seen in a while?  No, don't deflect back to the "you'll just have to feel it," we've already established that you're not going to sell me shit if I don't know it's purpose beforehand.

Here's one thought from dude who developed iPhone Facebook App (sorry, may have posted this earlier):

I spent a year and a half attempting to reduce a massive, complex social networking website into a handheld, touch-screen form factor. My goal was initially just to make a mobile companion for the facebook.com mothership, but once I got comfortable with the platform I became convinced it was possible to create a version of Facebook that was actually better than the website! Of all the platforms I've developed on in my career, from the desktop to the web, iPhone OS gave me the greatest sense of empowerment, and had the highest ceiling for raising the art of UI design. Except there was one thing keeping me from reaching that ceiling: the screen was too small.

At some point I came to the conclusion that Facebook on iPhone OS could not truly exceed the website until I could adapt it to a screen size closer to a laptop. It needed to support more than one column of information at a time. I couldn't fit enough tools on the screen to support any kind of advanced creative work. Photos were too small to show off to my far-sighted parents. The web required too much panning and zooming to enjoy reading. Beyond just Facebook, most of the apps I used most on my iPhone also suffered from these limitations, like Google Reader, Instapaper, and all image, video, and text editing tools. The bottom line is, many apps which were cute toys on iPhone can become full-featured power tools on the iPad, making you forget about their desktop/laptop predecessors. We just have to invent them.

Here's a clarion call for another unique app, and with this author's following, I wager version(s) of it will be built:

I think there's a killer app version of this for the iPad, and I hope someone will build it. The talking pad is an interactive presentation tool for smart people.

Overview

It's a very simple concept: a collection of pages (slides, images, type, let's call them pages) that are easy to navigate in a non-linear way. Along with the standard zoom features, I'd like to be able to write on any of them in real time using my finger. I can also call up, on demand, a calculator or a blank drawing pad.

Creation

I can create the talking pad files on my Mac or on the iPad using a builder app, and sync both ways. The builder is really simple, just the ability to organize pages I create in other apps, with simple navigation, scale and type tools.

Navigation

Instead of it being linear (like Powerpoint or Keynote), the pages are arranged in a grid or checkerboard. From any page, then, I can go back, forward, up or down, and the four diagonals as well. So depending on the conversation I'm having with my audience, my 'next' page can be any of 8.

In addition, the app supports an external monitor. When I'm hooked up to the projector or screen, I see twenty or thirty of my pages in thumbnails on my ipad screen, and I can click any of them to instantly bring that page up on the projector.

In essence, I want to be able to play a presentation the same way some people play jazz piano.

As a prompt, each corner and side of the page can have little keyword reminders, so I can easily remember, for example, that pressing the bottom left corner of the page about dogs will display the page about tigers.

So now, someone asks a question and I can just jump to the slide that answers that question. If I want to circle something or zoom in, I just put my finger on the screen and do that.

Bonuses:

1. the ability to have one of the pages be a web browser with address already loaded, so if I want, without leaving the talking pad app, I can jump to this.

2. the ability to embed links within the pages, so I can actually have a page that points to other pages (this is currently built into keynote and powerpoint, but people don't use it because those programs are so linear). In essence, a page becomes a piano keyboard with each key pointing to another page.

And games, already, a natural platform for board games, and already has a existing library with a title count that dwarfs DS, PSP. Most of the EA games (including Madden, Tiger Woods, Sims 3, NBA Live, etc.) are already on the iphone and I suspect they'll more fully supported on the bigger screen iPad.

[Sheepherder]

Got it:  Interactive whiteboard, board games, ports from the iPhone, and magic APIs magically making existing apps better.  Why didn't I think of these things as potential new and exciting breakthroughs?

[Tarami]

How did you get the impression actual magic wouldn't be involved? This is Apple we're talking about.

[Surlyboi]

Also, that wan't what I said. I said try one, THEN praise it or bash it. Reading for comprehension is your goddamn friend.

Yeah, I got what you said, it was just retarded and didn't dignify a serious response.  Hence me making fun of it.  You don't need a Mac store to know whether you want an iPad.  But since you're evidently unable to reason it out for yourself:

The thing is too heavy to be held like a book.  It could be held like a clipboard if you're willing to have it braced against your chest constantly to avoid it putting stress on your wrist.  The wrist strain problem could have been solved with a strap and/or handle that lets you better secure it to your forearm, or with a no-slip rubber coating on the back; but it's too trendy for those concessions to usability.  It's entirely inferior to a laptop for use while sitting or at a table, and inferior to the iPhone for portability and use while standing.  It's storage capacity is pitiful, it's OS is restrictive, you have to use Apple's bullshit dock if you want to plug something in to it, and it's $200 too expensive for a device to surf the web while you watch TV.

This thing is made obsolete by Apple's own fucking iPhone, that's how hard it fails.

Keep justifying your hate because you can't seem to find a use for it. There are plenty of people who can and will.

[tgr]

Keep justifying your hate because you can't seem to find a use for it. There are plenty of people who can and will.

I'm also having a bit of a problem seeing exactly why I should bother to buy an iPad, simply because I'm not one of those who have to distance myself as far away from PCs as I can to be "hip" or whatever the reasoning is. I use my PC at home for everything, because I think it's usually the best tool for the job. I lug around a laptop when I need to do something semiserious away from work/the apartment.

About the only thing I can see this being useful, is when I'm out photographing and I want to do a bit of previewing before I get back home and sort out the good from the bad pictures. Reading books? Nah. Reading newspapers? Not very likely where I tend to go; no cellphone coverage. Watching a movie? Playing NFS? Come on, I'm a PC gamer, and all the games displayed on the iPad have so far made me think it would be a limpwristed experience.

I actually watched the entire presentation, and the only thing they've done that's "amazing!!!" is, they've made something semi-small, which has pressure-sensitive (I assume) multi-touch capabilities. Anything else they (including steve jobs) said just triggered my bullshit-o-meter. The display is not HUGE. The resolution is not HUGE. The quality is not AMAZING. 10 hours is not AMAZING. Spreadsheets will not be AMAZING and EASY and PROFESSIONAL just because I'd use the iPad.

I guess I'm just too old, too bitter and not hip enough for these kinds of products, but I also don't really see any place in my equipment repetoir for an iPad. I'm sure tons of other people will buy it and probably praise it, but I'm not one of them.

[Lantyssa]

VAX VMS or get out.

I'll cut you.

[Mattemeo]

I actually watched the entire presentation, and the only thing they've done that's "amazing!!!" is, they've made something semi-small, which has pressure-sensitive (I assume) multi-touch capabilities. Anything else they (including steve jobs) said just triggered my bullshit-o-meter.

Haha, Apple wishes. You won't be seeing genuine pressure sensitivity on the iPad or any other touch-based system Apple produce for a couple of generations - the current stock of iPad screens were supposedly bought 3 years ago or more.
It's really only just been made technologically possible thanks to quantum physics!. Samsung have already bought license rights.

[Engels]

Adobe has Flash 10.1 beta out (see Anandtech article) and from the looks of it, Flash will now play decently on some netbooks at 480, sometimes even 780. If Adobe gets their shit together and makes Flash not be such a resourch ho, then the iPad may be relegated to Newton status right quick.

[Venkman]

Also, that wan't what I said. I said try one, THEN praise it or bash it. Reading for comprehension is your goddamn friend.

Yeah, I got what you said, it was just retarded and didn't dignify a serious response.  Hence me making fun of it.  You don't need a Mac store to know whether you want an iPad.

Nothing wrong with arguing against the iPad as a business opportunity. It doesn't have a clear market, just a bunch of use cases it isn't for. And it's only gotten all the attention because the most vocal technphiles are recent iPhone converts who can't believe anyone who makes that device wouldn't also make a subsequent device for them.

But analyzing the feel of something you haven't held is like getting into a spitting match over MMOs based on concept sketches.

[Sheepherder]

Or you could just get a copy of this, and read it one-handed without supporting it on your chest.  Go ahead, I'll wait.

[Arnold]

I'm lying on my bed in the morning, typing this on a Samsung NC10 netbook purchased a year ago, which has become my main computer.

It runs XP and has a very comfortable keyboard. I use it at home for website editorial work, everyday tasks/research and entertainment (even played EQ1 on it when I was sick and bored). I've taken it travelling with me twice. I watched seven episodes of 24 on it recently.

It gives at least 4 hours per battery charge, usually 5 hours. It resumes very fast from hibernation. I've put it through hell and it never skips a beat.

I'm definitely now part of the netbook market and there must be many people like me. But the iPad is unappealing. The advantage of this little XP netbook is it's a real computer with a real-feeling keyboard, so it's consistent with my computer at work. The iPad is only consistent with iPhones and while I could watch the episodes of 24, I couldn't alt-tab to my email and work tools like I can on my netbook.

I don't get people who bash netbooks, telling me that they are worthless.  My netbook rules.  It does everything I need it to do and is everything I want in a portable computer.

It was cheap, it is tiny and can fit into any bag I own (not so large that it requires a special pack - like my old laptop, which wasn't all that big anyway), the battery lasts forever.  I can browse the web, do word processing tasks, play online poker, play Diablo II...

The only reason I ever needed a powerful computer was to play video games... and I don't really do much of that anymore.  MMOs are just dead to me, and I haven't felt the itch to play an FPS in a while.