iPad

[Jeff Kelly]

Why would I buy an Alienware pc for $799 when I can buy another brand pc for $499 or $399 which is essentially the same device running the same applications and the same os?

You'll most probably list alot of reasons why the Alienware device is 'better' but most people that use computers today have a different understanding of what exactly better means.

For them better doesn't mean better performance, bigger ram or a larger hard disk because that are features they simply don't care about, don't understand or don't need. For such people a no name $399 device is basically the same as your $799 alienware pc, because it runs the same OS and the same applications they use but it's half the price.

That's what's killing pc vendors at the moment. They cannot offer any good reason why a customer should buy their brand if all of the other companies offer essentially the same device only in a different case. So they compete over price which drives margins down. They have to do this because they have no control over any part of the computing experience. They don't own the hardware, they don't own the software and they all buy from the same hardware and software companies.

The same will happen with Android. a lot of companies will latch onto it to get rid of their proprietary os and software platforms and as a consequence will lose the only ability they have to differentiate themselves from other device makers.

But that's not the point. Apple doesn't compete with PC makers on price or features because they don't need to. They control the whole software and hardware platform and user experience and can differentiate themselves from their competition by other means than just price, which seems to work quite well.

The question is not "Why should I buy an iPad if I can get a vastly superior pc for the same price?" but rather why aren't my customers buying the vastly superior pc and go for something different which is more expensive?

Which brings me back to the 'most insipid analogy' in this thread. Profit margins of 30% or more are not unusual. Those margins are unusual for pc vendors who lost the ability to compete on anything other than price. All they can offer is "cheaper" or "make the same apps and the same os slightly faster".

That's the point Sairon so eloquently made in his post when he attributed stupidity or the incapability to understand basic math to Apple customers. "Why are they buying Apple devices when they could get the same performance for less money?"

In my opinion that's missing the point entirely because people stopped caring about performance. Even the cheapest pc on sale today can do 99% of the things the majority of people need to do. Hell most smart phones can do 99% of the things most people use their computers for.

They don't want 'cheaper' or 'faster' they want 'better' or just different. Things pc makers cannot deliver because they lack control of the platform as a whole.

I don't think the iPad will be a runaway success but I consider focusing only on price vs. performance to be myopic. A person that hates pcs and doesn't like to use Windows will neither buy the cheapest nor the best pc unless he absolutely needs to in which case he will choose the cheapest. He might even be willing to pay more for less if it offers him a better overall experience. Something pc vendors cannot offer and most of them don't even understand.

Google has realized that, which is why they offer Android and Chrome OS to get more people to use the web which is their main source of revenue. At some point they need to start to offer their own hardware however (Nexus is a first step in that direction) because otherwise they might suffer from the same consequences Microsoft suffers from. A totally fragmented hardware and software base because lack of control over the hardware. This would be the only thing that could kill Android. Apple makes a killing at the moment because they realized that first.

If Google starts offering their own hardware it will spell doom for a lot of mobile phone and pc companies.

[naum]

I do however like how the iPhone shaked things up, and it certainly changed the direction on where smart phones are heading nowadays. Point is however, things have changed since 2007, and the competition has in my opinion surpassed the iPhone on most of its strengths. But what difference does it really make, people don't want the best phone or the best value, they want an iPhone. It seems to be the same with the iPad, they don't want the best tablet, they want an iPad. People are already talking about how it will revolutionize how we use computers, even though there's been comparable devices around for a long time, just not created by Apple.

No.

Eventually, market will catch up or exceed Apple breakthroughs.

But what comparable device are you referring to? Equating previous MS tablets to this touch device (or even iPhone implementation) is a joke. It's nowhere near the same experience, and one is foolish to claim so. When that claim is made, it's ignorance.

Even the Google Nexus, which is snappier and has improved screen hardware, still is less than the iPhone experience — no multitouch (yes, I know the device is capable, but it's purposely omitted by Google), and an inferior UI (judging not from tech-wizards, but typical users, who've expressed frustration with the UI). Early sales figures for the Google Nexus are embarrassing. But, point is, interesting that Apple set the standard and now competitors yearn to match their model, but falling short in replicating the experience, even considering better hardware and cheaper cost (though comparing Google Nexus cost with Apple iPhone, I didn't see that significant a difference).

[naum]

Another developer perspective…

As a software developer, I find the iPad inspirational.

Apple's iPad is not a new idea. They are not the first ones to think of a tablet and as many blogs have pointed out the Apple iPad is not everyone's dream machine, the hardware is lacking gadgets and the software is not that amazing.

Five elements come together to revolutionize software:

Price
Multi-touch centric development
Standard hardware available for consumers
Apple's AppStore
Large form factor.
The iPhoneOS is a multi-touch centric operating system. For years application developers have been subjected to the tyranny of the mouse and keyboard. This has been the only input technology that developers could reliably depend on and expect to be available on the user's system. Any software that requires different input mechanism sees its potential market reduced.

The mouse is a great device for certain class of desktop applications. But it has also led to applications that are incredibly frustrating to use. Software for editing music and audio is cumbersome. Find the target, drag it, move it, find the other button, click it, scroll, drag, click. Anyone that has used Garage Band to try to play along knows this. The same applies to software to paint or draw. The mouse and keyboard are poor substitutes for using your hands.

On the iPhone, and now the iPad, the situation is reversed. Multi-touch is the only input mechanism that developers can depend on. Apple's iPhone helped create a community of developers that think in terms of taps, pinches and twirls instead of clicks, double-clicks and right-clicks. It is no longer an after thought. It is no longer a feature that is added if there is enough time in the schedule or enough budget. It is the only option available.

Taps, pinches and twirls allow us to use the full expression of our hands to drive an application. And it is not just any multi-touch, it is multi-touch over the same surface where the application is providing feedback to the user. Software that respond to user input in the same way that a physical object responds to our physical contact is the key to create new user experiences.

This is a whole new space in which we can research, a new space that we can explore and where we can create a whole new class of computer/user interactions. With the new form factor, we can now create applications that just made no sense on the iPhone.

[Jeff Kelly]

iPhone 3GS goes for about 8 500 SEK unlocked, the N900 which has both more and better hardware across the entire board goes for about 5 000 SEK, although it uses a resistive screen. The Nexus One which has significantly better hardware across pretty much the entire spectrum than the 3GS goes for 7 300 SEK. The mathematically challenged comment was made mostly in regards to how people usually pick up an iPhone "But it's only $50 a month".

Nobody outside the nerd or geek crowd buys devices unlocked anyway.

The E71 did most of what you mentioned ( if not all ) around the same time as the iPhone, and is universally very well received amongst its owners.

As a business device. Querty keypad, long lasting battery but not exactly a multimedia machine at least according to reviews.

hey don't want the best tablet, they want an iPad. People are already talking about how it will revolutionize how we use computers, even though there's been comparable devices around for a long time, just not created by Apple.

They might just have a different opinion about what is "best" than you do. The N900 might offer the better hardware platform but Maemo is barely usable and offers nearly no software. Nexus One is an interesting device because the Android platform has reached a certain level of maturity and creates momentum in the developer community. It's interesting to see if Google can stop the fragmentation of the device market however.

As far as tablets are concerned. Why should I buy a tablet if all it does is run another copy of Windows 7 and provides no additional benefit?

[Delmania]

Another developer perspective…

As a software developer, I find the iPad inspirational.

Apple's iPad is not a new idea. They are not the first ones to think of a tablet and as many blogs have pointed out the Apple iPad is not everyone's dream machine, the hardware is lacking gadgets and the software is not that amazing.

Five elements come together to revolutionize software:

Price
Multi-touch centric development
Standard hardware available for consumers
Apple's AppStore
Large form factor.
The iPhoneOS is a multi-touch centric operating system. For years application developers have been subjected to the tyranny of the mouse and keyboard. This has been the only input technology that developers could reliably depend on and expect to be available on the user's system. Any software that requires different input mechanism sees its potential market reduced.

The mouse is a great device for certain class of desktop applications. But it has also led to applications that are incredibly frustrating to use. Software for editing music and audio is cumbersome. Find the target, drag it, move it, find the other button, click it, scroll, drag, click. Anyone that has used Garage Band to try to play along knows this. The same applies to software to paint or draw. The mouse and keyboard are poor substitutes for using your hands.

On the iPhone, and now the iPad, the situation is reversed. Multi-touch is the only input mechanism that developers can depend on. Apple's iPhone helped create a community of developers that think in terms of taps, pinches and twirls instead of clicks, double-clicks and right-clicks. It is no longer an after thought. It is no longer a feature that is added if there is enough time in the schedule or enough budget. It is the only option available.

Taps, pinches and twirls allow us to use the full expression of our hands to drive an application. And it is not just any multi-touch, it is multi-touch over the same surface where the application is providing feedback to the user. Software that respond to user input in the same way that a physical object responds to our physical contact is the key to create new user experiences.

This is a whole new space in which we can research, a new space that we can explore and where we can create a whole new class of computer/user interactions. With the new form factor, we can now create applications that just made no sense on the iPhone.

Burn the heretic! 

[ahoythematey]

Why would I buy an Alienware pc for $799 when I can buy another brand pc for $499 or $399 which is essentially the same device running the same applications and the same os?

You'll most probably list alot of reasons why the Alienware device is 'better' but most people that use computers today have a different understanding of what exactly better means.

For them better doesn't mean better performance, bigger ram or a larger hard disk because that are features they simply don't care about, don't understand or don't need. For such people a no name $399 device is basically the same as your $799 alienware pc, because it runs the same OS and the same applications they use but it's half the price.

That's what's killing pc vendors at the moment. They cannot offer any good reason why a customer should buy their brand if all of the other companies offer essentially the same device only in a different case. So they compete over price which drives margins down. They have to do this because they have no control over any part of the computing experience. They don't own the hardware, they don't own the software and they all buy from the same hardware and software companies.

The same will happen with Android. a lot of companies will latch onto it to get rid of their proprietary os and software platforms and as a consequence will lose the only ability they have to differentiate themselves from other device makers.

But that's not the point. Apple doesn't compete with PC makers on price or features because they don't need to. They control the whole software and hardware platform and user experience and can differentiate themselves from their competition by other means than just price, which seems to work quite well.

The question is not "Why should I buy an iPad if I can get a vastly superior pc for the same price?" but rather why aren't my customers buying the vastly superior pc and go for something different which is more expensive?

Which brings me back to the 'most insipid analogy' in this thread. Profit margins of 30% or more are not unusual. Those margins are unusual for pc vendors who lost the ability to compete on anything other than price. All they can offer is "cheaper" or "make the same apps and the same os slightly faster".

That's the point Sairon so eloquently made in his post when he attributed stupidity or the incapability to understand basic math to Apple customers. "Why are they buying Apple devices when they could get the same performance for less money?"

In my opinion that's missing the point entirely because people stopped caring about performance. Even the cheapest pc on sale today can do 99% of the things the majority of people need to do. Hell most smart phones can do 99% of the things most people use their computers for.

They don't want 'cheaper' or 'faster' they want 'better' or just different. Things pc makers cannot deliver because they lack control of the platform as a whole.

I don't think the iPad will be a runaway success but I consider focusing only on price vs. performance to be myopic. A person that hates pcs and doesn't like to use Windows will neither buy the cheapest nor the best pc unless he absolutely needs to in which case he will choose the cheapest. He might even be willing to pay more for less if it offers him a better overall experience. Something pc vendors cannot offer and most of them don't even understand.

Google has realized that, which is why they offer Android and Chrome OS to get more people to use the web which is their main source of revenue. At some point they need to start to offer their own hardware however (Nexus is a first step in that direction) because otherwise they might suffer from the same consequences Microsoft suffers from. A totally fragmented hardware and software base because lack of control over the hardware. This would be the only thing that could kill Android. Apple makes a killing at the moment because they realized that first.

If Google starts offering their own hardware it will spell doom for a lot of mobile phone and pc companies.

I'm guessing the comparison was made to alienware because both brands are overpriced for what they offer, which makes the ridiculousness even more pronounced.

That Pee-Wee video is awesome.

[schild]

I'm guessing the comparison was made to alienware because both brands are overpriced for what they offer, which makes the ridiculousness even more pronounced.

Ding ding ding.

[caladein]

Another developer perspective…

Apple's AppStore
...

The iPhoneOS is a multi-touch centric operating system. For years application developers have been subjected to the tyranny of the mouse and keyboard. This has been the only input technology that developers could reliably depend on and expect to be available on the user's system. Any software that requires different input mechanism sees its potential market reduced.

This is a bit of retread of part of the Android thread but: iPhone OS freeing anyone from any kind of "tyranny" is hysterical.  One line removed from mentioning the AppStore just puts it over the top.

[naum]

A message to the Internets regarding the iPad

I am a technology professional. For almost 20 years I’ve tested, used, broke, fixed, and played with all kinds of technology from broadcasting to air conditioning to software. I am not easily swayed in these things. But even with all my skepticism, I think the iPad is something different. A new way of computing that will become commonplace.

Oh Internets, I know you won’t believe till you hold one in your hands. You’ll bang on about features, data plans, DRM, open source, and a multitude of issues. You’ll storm the message boards, wring your hands, and promise you won’t buy one till ‘Gen 2’. The din will grow and grow as time passes.

And then one day, in a few months, you will actually hold one and use it. And you will say, “I want one. Iwant one right now.”

So, my sweet beloved Internets, please take a deep breath, relax and stay away from your regular knee-jerk reactions. Have a little patience, a quality you are not known for, my sweet Internets.

And please, please stop trying to make predictions about what's next, you have no clue and just look stupid when you do.

[schild]

Stop fucking quoting bloggers. None of them are making the point you're looking for.

[Quinton]

iPhone 3GS goes for about 8 500 SEK unlocked, the N900 which has both more and better hardware across the entire board goes for about 5 000 SEK, although it uses a resistive screen. The Nexus One which has significantly better hardware across pretty much the entire spectrum than the 3GS goes for 7 300 SEK. The mathematically challenged comment was made mostly in regards to how people usually pick up an iPhone "But it's only $50 a month".

Nobody outside the nerd or geek crowd buys devices unlocked anyway.

Everyone who has ever bought a laptop has, which includes a lot of non-nerd/geeks.

I'll agree that in the US, people generally buy subsidized phones, because hey math is hard!

But one of my gripes about the iPad is it really is much more laptop than phone (capabilities, form factor, etc), and it's priced as a laptop (unsubsidized, no contract, etc), yet it's locked down like a subsidized phone (you can only obtain your apps and premium content from Steve!).  That feels like a big step backwards to me.

Maybe I'm wrong and all those people who love their macbooks and whatnot don't actually care at all about them being general purpose computing platforms with no restrictions, but I think the more cash people plunk down and the closer to a laptop you get, the more people might wonder why all the restrictions on use.

[ahoythematey]

A message to the Internets regarding the iPad

I am a technology professional. For almost 20 years I’ve tested, used, broke, fixed, and played with all kinds of technology from broadcasting to air conditioning to software. I am not easily swayed in these things. But even with all my skepticism, I think the iPad is something different. A new way of computing that will become commonplace.

Oh Internets, I know you won’t believe till you hold one in your hands. You’ll bang on about features, data plans, DRM, open source, and a multitude of issues. You’ll storm the message boards, wring your hands, and promise you won’t buy one till ‘Gen 2’. The din will grow and grow as time passes.

And then one day, in a few months, you will actually hold one and use it. And you will say, “I want one. Iwant one right now.”

So, my sweet beloved Internets, please take a deep breath, relax and stay away from your regular knee-jerk reactions. Have a little patience, a quality you are not known for, my sweet Internets.

And please, please stop trying to make predictions about what's next, you have no clue and just look stupid when you do.

This is the type of disgusting smugness I was talking about previously.  You like apple, we get it.  Congratulations on expecting your third with Steve.  Are you done with the useless links?

[KallDrexx]

I'll agree that in the US, people generally buy subsidized phones, because hey math is hard!

Um, the math isn't hard, it's just that it costs more to buy the phone unlocked over the course of the contract than buying it subsidized.  The only time it's cheaper to buy a phone unlocked is if you purchase it for T-mobile, and T-mobile does not have good 3g everywhere.  That's why I didn't buy a Nexus One and went with a Droid, cause all reviews I read said 3g in Orlando, FL sucks (not exactly a hole in the wall). 

Also, even the T-mobile savings doesn't necessarily make it appealing to buy a phone unsubsidized.  With the NExus One, if you buy it unsubsidized you save about $130 over the course of 2 years.  That's not exactly a stellar savings, especially considering the outlay.

[Delmania]

This is the type of disgusting smugness I was talking about previously.  You like apple, we get it.  Congratulations on expecting your third with Steve.  Are you done with the useless links?

From the same blogger:

Looks like I kicked over the bee hive...

My little post about the iPad is getting a lot of views, and strident, indignant comments from my beloved Internets. That you for all the comments that exactly, perfectly prove my points...

I would reply point by point, but as this is the Internet, discussion can never end in someone changing their mind, so it becomes fruitless.

The best is me being called an Apple fanboy. Let's be clear here, this is my computing environment at home:

4 desktop running Vista - one per family member
1 desktop running Vista - a media hub/home audio/phone dock
1 Media Center PC - hooked to TV to watch DVDs and Blu-ray
1 laptop running Vista
1 Microsoft Home Server - backing everything up
Currently putting together a new gaming PC to run Windows 7
and to top it off, one of the desktop PCs is a 20" Mac that only runs Vista - good design for my wife
3 iPhones - me, wife, eldest daughter - youngest uses a Samsung Impressions

If that make me an Apple fanboy, then everyone is an Apple fanboy.

[Samwise]

Dunno about that random blogger dude, but you can sure tell who the Apple fanboys are in this thread by the volume of shit they're copying and pasting.  I guess it beats posting your own words and risking having the big bad Internet mans make fun of you.

[MahrinSkel]

Looks like I want either an HP Slate or an Archos.  HP Slate is a "real PC" that's been stripped down to a touch-screen system, but can have the other bits tacked back in (so it can replace my laptop, but be easier to carry around), Archos is a jumped-up smartphone that can have enough tacked onto it to function as well as a netbook for general computing.

--Dave

EDIT: OTH, the Slate has no 3G.  But it can operate on *anyone's* network via a USB dongle, rather than being locked to a particular vendor.  Or even tech, running it on a 4G network where available would just be a different dongle.

[Sky]

The mouse is a great device for certain class of desktop applications. But it has also led to applications that are incredibly frustrating to use. Software for editing music and audio is cumbersome. Find the target, drag it, move it, find the other button, click it, scroll, drag, click. Anyone that has used Garage Band to try to play along knows this. The same applies to software to paint or draw. The mouse and keyboard are poor substitutes for using your hands.

Didn't think of that aspect, that could be huge. Having a touch screen app for a control surface in the studio would be huge. To this day I don't record on the computer because I despise using the mouse on the control surface. Otoh, digidesign already makes a pretty nice physical control surface, and real studios use real control surfaces, so it's a pretty niche application. For home studios a control surface app + mixing software (+ the high-end storage iPad) that can come in under a digi003 would probably move a few units.

Dunno about that random blogger dude, but you can sure tell who the Apple fanboys are in this thread by the volume of shit they're copying and pasting.  I guess it beats posting your own words and risking having the big bad Internet mans make fun of you.

I can't discuss the iPad with my supervisor. He thinks it's revolutionizing all computing (and textbooks) and his kids will be required to have one for college.

[Venkman]

People keep wanting the iPad to replace an iPhone or a Laptop. But it's not intended to do that. It is a device to consume media (music, games, movies, newspapers and books) from behind paywalls. Everything from Star Trek to Minority Report have featured devices like this. And yet nobody's ever asked just what sort of business models would need to exist to see that happen.

Welp, this is the business model: Make people pay for shit, and make them want to through superior user experiences. That's what the iPad is going for.

Apple isn't just consumer electronics. Their entire CE end user experience is an ecosystem of paywalls and media consumption. This is why so many others can't make any headway with their promises. They compromise something (usually usability) by prioritizing the wrong things (usually business interests).

Oh, and according to Techmeme, this video at 9to5mac shows working Flash on the device. But it's still not a certainty as far as I can tell. Particularly since, like, that'd be big news and stuff unto itself.

[KallDrexx]

Honestly, after seeing the user interface of the iPad from the video in Darniaq's post I definitely see the appeal in the device.  Though for me the appeal isn't big enough to spend the huge amount of money they want for it, but I can definitely see this succeeding now.

[Kitsune]

My $300 Dell Vostro A90 netbook dual-boots Windows 7 and Snow Leopard.  It multitasks.  Runs my choice of software.  Plays Flash.  Has lots of expansion via USB and a flash memory slot.  It's a more useful machine in every regard and fits in my toolbox.

My $300 iPod Touch has all the functionality at half the price of an iPad of similar storage capacity, plus it fits in my pocket.

If the iPad was not significantly more expensive than my Touch, I'd consider getting one just to have a convenient display for my gaming books in PDF format and a bigger ebook reader.  Something that I'd be keeping around the house or carrying in a bag with other stuff, because it's definitely not sized as a carry-anywhere device.  But before I'd buy the thing, the price needs to come down and/or it needs to have better functionality than the current generation.  I'll check back in a year.

For a book-sized tablet device that will actually make an impact on my daily life, I'm keeping an antenna pointed in the direction of microsoft's courier tablet.  If they manage to get it out of the prototype stage without fucking it up, it's going to be huge.  The Hard Rock Cafe on the strip in Vegas has a wall and some tables using microsoft's surface tech, and they are sweet as hell, so whatever team microsoft has working on tablet development definitely knows what they're doing.  If they get that same quality into a fold-closed two-screen tablet, everyone gets that computer book that Penny had in Inspector Gadget that I always wanted so much as a kid.

[Venkman]

Yea, the thing I'm most looking forward to is the Surface-style devices and then the evolutionary next step beyond of projected UIs. Tables and projections are the future, just a question of how we inch forward to get there.

I want a dual boot laptop. Just because.

[Righ]

Looks like I want either an HP Slate or an Archos.  HP Slate is a "real PC" that's been stripped down to a touch-screen system, but can have the other bits tacked back in (so it can replace my laptop, but be easier to carry around), Archos is a jumped-up smartphone that can have enough tacked onto it to function as well as a netbook for general computing.

Nobody knows what the fuck the HP Slate will or will not have in it, we only know that they intend to run a full version of Windows 7 on it, so it'll no doubt be rather expensive, and last about 11 minutes on battery. That was even more of a spoiler announcement than Apple's iPad. That they omitted wireless telephony from the design remit will allow them to react very quickly to what others bring to the market, so they're probably hashing out the specifications and price point now that Apple have played their hand. The Archos is more interesting and it has an Android OS so it could be worthwhile eventually. The initial range of Archos-supplied apps aren't going to cut it though.

I think the MSI is more interesting still, but somebody will have to port Linux to it. WinCE (or WinEC) is not something that I want. Given a few months, there will 30 companies selling similar things, so we'll just pick then... ;)

[Sairon]

But what comparable device are you referring to? Equating previous MS tablets to this touch device (or even iPhone implementation) is a joke. It's nowhere near the same experience, and one is foolish to claim so. When that claim is made, it's ignorance.

Even the Google Nexus, which is snappier and has improved screen hardware, still is less than the iPhone experience — no multitouch (yes, I know the device is capable, but it's purposely omitted by Google), and an inferior UI (judging not from tech-wizards, but typical users, who've expressed frustration with the UI). Early sales figures for the Google Nexus are embarrassing. But, point is, interesting that Apple set the standard and now competitors yearn to match their model, but falling short in replicating the experience, even considering better hardware and cheaper cost (though comparing Google Nexus cost with Apple iPhone, I didn't see that significant a difference).

Since I've only used iPhones very briefly for testing purposes I'd love to know what this obsession with multi touch is based on. The 2 use cases I've seen are zooming and apps requiring multiple input ( mostly games ). Zooming isn't really common enough that I'd consider it a factor, I presume there's a greater need for zooming on the iPhone though since the resolution is about 1 / 4 of the competition. For games I can see the use when there's no hardware buttons, although I must say I personally prefer to not have my fingers blocking the view while gaming ( I even find this to be a bit irritating on the DS which uses a stylus ).

As for flash, adobe had it working on the iPhone in 2007 iirc, but Apple would have none of it because it would cut into the app store.

[KallDrexx]

I think the MSI is more interesting still, but somebody will have to port Linux to it. WinCE (or WinEC) is not something that I want. Given a few months, there will 30 companies selling similar things, so we'll just pick then... ;)

Does MSI have 2 tablets in the works?  One slated for this year is a $500 android tablet.

[Sairon]

iPhone 3GS goes for about 8 500 SEK unlocked, the N900 which has both more and better hardware across the entire board goes for about 5 000 SEK, although it uses a resistive screen. The Nexus One which has significantly better hardware across pretty much the entire spectrum than the 3GS goes for 7 300 SEK. The mathematically challenged comment was made mostly in regards to how people usually pick up an iPhone "But it's only $50 a month".

Nobody outside the nerd or geek crowd buys devices unlocked anyway.

The E71 did most of what you mentioned ( if not all ) around the same time as the iPhone, and is universally very well received amongst its owners.

As a business device. Querty keypad, long lasting battery but not exactly a multimedia machine at least according to reviews.

hey don't want the best tablet, they want an iPad. People are already talking about how it will revolutionize how we use computers, even though there's been comparable devices around for a long time, just not created by Apple.

They might just have a different opinion about what is "best" than you do. The N900 might offer the better hardware platform but Maemo is barely usable and offers nearly no software. Nexus One is an interesting device because the Android platform has reached a certain level of maturity and creates momentum in the developer community. It's interesting to see if Google can stop the fragmentation of the device market however.

As far as tablets are concerned. Why should I buy a tablet if all it does is run another copy of Windows 7 and provides no additional benefit?

Maemo is an older and more mature platform than iPhone OS in a lot of regards, as a development platform I can tell you that they're worlds apart to maemos advantage. So far the only quirk I've had is when playing music through my bluetooth headphones while torrenting / downloading at high transfer rates. It plays pretty much any media format, viewers and in most cases editors for all of the widely used document formats, I can't really think of anything in the app department really missing except for DLNA server software. When you have a real desktop like browser experience a lot of the iPhone apps becomes redundant anyway. It doesn't have a lot of games, and probably never will have though. As for usability, I don't really see what advantages iPhone have in this regard?

[Engels]

I just reconfigured a year old HP Touchsmart tx2 tablet PC for Windows 7. It has multitouch, handwriting recognition, draw on screen with a stylus thingie. Plays Flash, plays DVDs. Has 3 usb ports, rj45 jack and wireless. Weighs ~ 5 lbs with a fully functional keyboard. It originally came with Vista, which ran like crap. With Windows 7 its pretty snappy. Its basically the iPad. A wee bit heavier, an half inch or so thicker, and probably only around 3 hours of battery life on full blow mode. Its running an AMD Turino 64 bit processor and dedicated ATI card. The price was ~ $1000.

If that's year old tech, I imagine the HP slate will do alright.

Oh, and all these folks that keep on going on about how great the MP3 player is in iPhone/Pad/Pod has seriously drunk coolaid. ITunes is probably the most unintuitive media manager out there. The default windows player does a more rational job. Don't get me wrong, I love my iPhone at the end of the day, but the ITunes interface is a dog.

Oh, and

In the US nobody outside the nerd or geek crowd buys devices unlocked anyway.

FIFY. Have to understand that in the rest of the world, 2 year contracts are not common.

[Zetor]

Maemo is basically Debian on an ARM tablet/phone. As I understand it, one of the main draws of the nokia tablets is that porting linux apps to them is (intended to be) super easy... I still don't see a compelling reason to buy one, though.

[Venkman]

I just reconfigured a year old HP Touchsmart tx2 tablet PC for Windows 7. It has multitouch, handwriting recognition, draw on screen with a stylus thingie. Plays Flash, plays DVDs. Has 3 usb ports, rj45 jack and wireless. Weighs ~ 5 lbs with a fully functional keyboard. It originally came with Vista, which ran like crap. With Windows 7 its pretty snappy. Its basically the iPad. A wee bit heavier, an half inch or so thicker, and probably only around 3 hours of battery life on full blow mode. Its running an AMD Turino 64 bit processor and dedicated ATI card. The price was ~ $1000.

If that's year old tech, I imagine the HP slate will do alright.

You're a techie though. Most people don't do that. They burn out a machine and move on to the next. All this talk about open source and configurability and stuff doesn't matter a whit to the vast majority people that will never configure anywhere that deep and have no problem paying through the paywalls. That's why they're the mass market

As has been said, Apple didn't open anything, they merely closed some channels and opened different ones directly to themselves. That's all the iPad is doing too. It's not a computer. It's not a device for people who want to hack and improve the user experience. It's a device for people who think it's the best user experience they'll get at this time and are all fine with that because they either don't know any better or don't care to know.

That's not an indictment on the uninformed masses. It's just fact.

[Engels]

I just reconfigured a year old HP Touchsmart tx2 tablet PC for Windows 7 and stuff

You're a techie though. Most people don't do that. They burn out a machine and move on to the next.
That's not an indictment on the uninformed masses. It's just fact.

My point is that from a hardware level, this tech been available for at least a year. Running Vista, which is probably why it failed to capture an audience. Windows 7, with its record breaking sales, may paint a different picture for HP and other tablet platforms that could easily rival the iPad.

[raydeen]

Here's the one killer app that would get me and the rest of the geeks to buy one (or two) of these things: A software synth/sequencer program like that Korg app on the DS. Bigger screen would mean more control and performance options. If the hardware could handle it, I'd be all over it. I'd be willing to bet there'll be some version of Garageband (or hopefully something better) available for it after launch. This thing is just screaming to be a real time music performance/production system. Think a Kaoss Pad on steroids.

[Righ]

Does MSI have 2 tablets in the works?  One slated for this year is a $500 android tablet.

No, I was confused, the WinCE one is something else.

Here's the one killer app that would get me and the rest of the geeks to buy one (or two) of these things: A software synth/sequencer program like that Korg app on the DS. Bigger screen would mean more control and performance options. If the hardware could handle it, I'd be all over it. I'd be willing to bet there'll be some version of Garageband (or hopefully something better) available for it after launch. This thing is just screaming to be a real time music performance/production system. Think a Kaoss Pad on steroids.

They just announced the Kaossilator on steroids:

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2010/01/14/korg-intros-kaossilator-pro-dynamic-phrase-synthesizer/

It's a bit cheaper too. However, I agree that multi-touch parameter control of MIDI instruments would be a great use for an iPad. After all, there's basic control software for iPhones/iPods already:

http://www.itouchmidi.com/

[Jeff Kelly]

In the US nobody outside the nerd or geek crowd buys devices unlocked anyway.

FIFY. Have to understand that in the rest of the world, 2 year contracts are not common.

Alas I'm not from the US. 2 year contracts with subsidized phones are standard nearly everywhere.

[Jeff Kelly]

Maemo is an older and more mature platform than iPhone OS in a lot of regards, as a development platform I can tell you that they're worlds apart to maemos advantage. So far the only quirk I've had is when playing music through my bluetooth headphones while torrenting / downloading at high transfer rates. It plays pretty much any media format, viewers and in most cases editors for all of the widely used document formats, I can't really think of anything in the app department really missing except for DLNA server software. When you have a real desktop like browser experience a lot of the iPhone apps becomes redundant anyway. It doesn't have a lot of games, and probably never will have though. As for usability, I don't really see what advantages iPhone have in this regard?

That it's usable by anybody who is not a Linux geek?

maemo is by no means a stable and mature platform. They even switched the gui library from gtk to qt midway through development. Also the Maemo team inside Nokia has already been dissolved and developent has stopped.

[raydeen]

They just announced the Kaossilator on steroids:

Man, if I hadn't just bought a new car...
I'm liking the looks and demos of the thing (watched a few on youtube) but I was thinking more along the lines of actually having a virtual keyboard or drumset along with controls for effects and built in sounds and such. If something like this is ever developed for the iPad I know what Kraftwerk's new setup is gonna be. ;)

Edit: Wish I'd seen Sky's link above before posting. Again with the posting before completely reading. Although I will say I have no trouble with mouse based input for music software. 9 times out of 10 my compositions are all piano roll style input though a touch screen certainly would speed things up.

[Sairon]

Maemo is an older and more mature platform than iPhone OS in a lot of regards, as a development platform I can tell you that they're worlds apart to maemos advantage. So far the only quirk I've had is when playing music through my bluetooth headphones while torrenting / downloading at high transfer rates. It plays pretty much any media format, viewers and in most cases editors for all of the widely used document formats, I can't really think of anything in the app department really missing except for DLNA server software. When you have a real desktop like browser experience a lot of the iPhone apps becomes redundant anyway. It doesn't have a lot of games, and probably never will have though. As for usability, I don't really see what advantages iPhone have in this regard?

That it's usable by anybody who is not a Linux geek?

maemo is by no means a stable and mature platform. They even switched the gui library from gtk to qt midway through development. Also the Maemo team inside Nokia has already been dissolved and developent has stopped.

I don't know much about Linux and has had no problems. Everything is programmable, but unless you really want to go nuts it's straightforward, this shows of basic navigation and multitasking.

I wouldn't know what's going on inside Nokia, they must've stopped fairly recently then because there was a rather large update just a few weeks ago.