Simple questions. Simple answers. Complex questions. Flow charts.

[Ingmar]

So when I'm farming Scholo for runecloth and junk, I sometimes get these dark runes that take 600-1000 life and give 900-1500 mana, 15 minute cooldown. I'm a ret paladin with a mana pool slightly less than 6k. That makes one of these runes worth 16-25% of my mana bar. Granted I don't run out of mana often, but that... doesn't sound useless for being a billion year old vanilla item. Think I'll farm some up and see if I find a use for them.

They AH decently, or used to, since the paladin mount quest calls for some I think.

[Rendakor]

I believe those runes are also the item used by the chinese farmers who spell out websites with piles of bodies.

[Jayce]

I believe those runes are also the item used by the chinese farmers who spell out websites with piles of bodies.

I thought those guys used the z-axis exploit to drop themselves from 10,000,000 feet in the air for that.  There are youtube videos, it must be true!

[WindupAtheist]

I'm not very sold on Seal of Righteousness and Seal of Vengeance plus 5/5 Seals of the Pure for PVE ret pally DPS. At least not for heroics. If I were wailing on a raid boss for 5 minutes solid that would be one thing, but heroic bosses are quite often mostly dead before SoV builds up to 5 stacks. A lot of them have gimmicks that take me out of melee long enough to force me to start building stacks up all over again anyway.

I might just drop SotP, spec back into Seal of Command, and spend the other 4 points on whatever.

[Sheepherder]

SotP builds are higher DPS and allow you to glyph for 10 expertise, which is fucking eyelasers.

[Jimbo]

How do you all think of this build for leveling to 80?
http://www.gotwarcraft.com/guides/leveling/class/paladin.php
Basically 0/20/51 Retribution build

I was getting my ass handed to me at level 24 but was all holy, but now have a better idea on how to play. 

[caladein]

SotP builds are higher DPS and allow you to glyph for 10 expertise, which is fucking eyelasers.

Yes, ~80 Expertise Rating from a Glyph is insane.

Command is nice because of the cleave, but it doesn't have the supporting Glyphs/Talents like Righteousness and Corruption do to make it awesome.

[SurfD]

SotP builds are higher DPS and allow you to glyph for 10 expertise, which is fucking eyelasers.

Yes, ~80 Expertise Rating from a Glyph is insane.

Command is nice because of the cleave, but it doesn't have the supporting Glyphs/Talents like Righteousness and Corruption do to make it awesome.

From what i understand, Command is probably THE best dps talent a ret paladin can take for ANYTHING that involves hitting more then 1 mob.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah, I mucked around a little and took two points out of some silly-ass talent that had no place in PVE, put one in Command, and put the left over one in Divine Sacrifice. I figure if things go to shit and I need to bubble, I can hit Divine Sacrifice too and spare the whole party 30% damage for free. Command > Righteousness for trash, by far, even with 5/5 SotP. I'm keeping SotP though, for it's benefit to SoV. Picked up the SoV glyph, which I didn't know about, so this thread did in fact help.

[Jeff Kelly]

I'd like to ask you for your Hall of Reflections strategies. As a priest I'm healing everything up to and including ICC10 wthout problems, but most of the time I don't seem to get past the 10 waves or the escape in HoR. Most of the Time I run out of Mana by the 3rd of the five waves or somebody dies from the ridiculous amount of group damage.

How do you handle it?

[Evildrider]

I'd like to ask you for your Hall of Reflections strategies. As a priest I'm healing everything up to and including ICC10 wthout problems, but most of the time I don't seem to get past the 10 waves or the escape in HoR. Most of the Time I run out of Mana by the 3rd of the five waves or somebody dies from the ridiculous amount of group damage.

How do you handle it?

My friend can heal through there without much mana issues.  Not sure if she just has more mana or better regen then you do.  The amount of damage could be more from your group not paying attentiong.  The Mage in there pumps out so much aoe damage it's kinda stupid.

Mage should always be the first one down, and you have to do it quickly or she pops her hallucination and it can get worse.  The major damage dealers in there are the mage and the mercenary.

[K9]

Are you disc or holy?

As disc HoR is trivially easy heal (compared to other healers). You just keep PW:S up on everyone, permanently. After that it's an exercise in dealing with DPS who pull aggro. As holy it's a little harder, but still eminently doable.

Suggestions:

 - Talk to your tank prior to the start. See what they would like you to shackle (I usually go for the hunters, since they are a pain for non-DK tanks to pull). Keep this mob shackled as best you can, but don't make it your sole focus.
 - Fight the mobs in the doorway, not the alcove. There's really only three sources of group damage: Flamestrike, SW:P and the Rogue's shadowstep. The alcove makes flamestrike dodging a lot harder, and makes shackling a lot harder. It's easier on the initial aggro if your group is braindead, but past that it's inferior to the doorway in every way.
 - Dispel has a very high priority. Fear, SW:P and Impending Dispair on Falric are all dangerous and unhelpful debuffs that you can remove easily.
 - Falric is an evil AoE encounter. As disc you can pre-shield the AoE fear (fear ward won't help). As holy pre-casting renew (the spell is cast every 33% HP) on all five party members will help, as will getting a 3-stack of serendipity. The difficulty with healing the AoE fear is that everyone is really spread out at the end, often out of CoH range for the most part. Having renew ticking and casting a serendipity-hasted PoH on yourself will help. PrOM really helps of course.
 - For mana-management, evaluate what spells you are using, and don't feel compelled to save cooldowns. A lot of the time you shouldn't need spells like PoH (in either spec). ProM is obviously vital, but if you are using PoH to heal up say the tank and a DPS who has aggro, then you'll run your mana down fast. Flash Heal and Binding Heal are very important here, learning when to use binding heal is very handy as a priest. Furthermore within each set of 4 spirit waves you can afford to pop Inner Focus + Divine Hymn at least once. Same for Hymn of Hope. You can drink between waves (you get about 8s out of combat between the two) and you can use Shadowfiend on the 2nd/3rd and 7th/8th waves. If all else fails, you can always pot, but frankly I don't
 - Don't be afraid to use cooldowns like Guardian Spirit and Pain Supression on the tank to give yourself time to heal up the DPS. A tank at 80%HP with guardian spirit and renew can generally be safely ignored for 5-10s.
 - On the pursuit, save Divine Hymn for the last wall. Pop Hymn of hope and Shadowfiend between the penultimate and last walls.


I will admit, I have only done this once as holy; mainly because this instance is just that much easier as Disc.

[Rendakor]

Anyone know the name of the Addon that allows you to target something you have tracked by clicking on it on the minimap? I haven't used it since vanilla, so I'm not sure it still exists... Started leveling my huntard again and realized I really miss it.

[Nebu]

Simple question: (I'm looking at you, Rasix)

What's the best leveling spec for a Warlock?  I was thinking affliction with a blue taunting pet, but it's just a guess purely based on mana management. 

[Selby]

What's the best leveling spec for a Warlock?

"Best" is completely subjective.  I am leveling Demonology just because I like how quickly things die.  Some people like leveling Affliction, but I didn't really care for it, so personal style may make a difference there.

[Gobbeldygook]

Simple question: (I'm looking at you, Rasix)

What's the best leveling spec for a Warlock?  I was thinking affliction with a blue taunting pet, but it's just a guess purely based on mana management. 

Affliction is the king of lock leveling until Demonology gets a felguard and even then, demonology is only 'better' because your pet can solo most quests while you /afk.  Affliction will still kill stuff much faster and more efficiently.

[Rasix]

Simple question: (I'm looking at you, Rasix)

What's the best leveling spec for a Warlock?  I was thinking affliction with a blue taunting pet, but it's just a guess purely based on mana management.  

Affliction with any DPS pet.  Although early on it's nice to just use the blueberry because you're so fragile.  I tended to go with the felhunter just because the mobs that gave me the most trouble were casters and the felpuppy eats them up.  Succi is pretty decent too, but she's a bit fragile at times.  The CC isn't important because you're an invincible god and nothing's going to kill you.  If you're having some doubts, wait until you can get siphon life.  It really changes the game and makes your mana pool basically infinite.

Nothing beats the health and mana return you get from affliction.  You never drink no matter how many mobs you pull.  Corruption everything, drain life, mana tap, and you can get a shard while at the same time getting a very nice mana return.  Really easy leveling rotation where you don't even have to ever cast a filler spell.  I tried demonology, but it was just so easy to stay full health/mana nearly 100% of the time as affliction.  

Only thing you may have problems with are some Outland elites because they're fear immune and you head into Outland with relatively poor HP.  Still, it's not like you just can't skip them as you'll blow through Outland in no time at all.  

I imagine all specs to pretty well.  Demo always kinda felt goofy to me though.  Destro is nice and easy for end game dps, but I imagine it levels just like a elemental shaman except without the mana efficiency.

[Sheepherder]

I imagine all specs to pretty well.  Demo always kinda felt goofy to me though.  Destro is nice and easy for end game dps, but I imagine it levels just like a elemental shaman except without the mana efficiency.

It's actually not bad for mana.

[Nebu]

Thanks for the input.  I decided to give WoW another shot now that I have a little more free time in the evenings.  I was going to start leveling my priest again, but decided that the only way I'll ever see the dungeons is in a pug and I'd much rather play a dps and not deal with idiots complaining about how I heal.  DPS is also more fun for solo PvP.  I enjoy playing my hunter in the BG's.

[Rasix]

I imagine all specs to pretty well.  Demo always kinda felt goofy to me though.  Destro is nice and easy for end game dps, but I imagine it levels just like a elemental shaman except without the mana efficiency.

It's actually not bad for mana.

No, it's not. I don't notice it when I'm shard farming or doing a daily.  But anything is poor mana efficiency next to a affliction lock or an elemental shaman.

Thanks for the input.  I decided to give WoW another shot now that I have a little more free time in the evenings.  I was going to start leveling my priest again, but decided that the only way I'll ever see the dungeons is in a pug and I'd much rather play a dps and not deal with idiots complaining about how I heal.  DPS is also more fun for solo PvP.  I enjoy playing my hunter in the BG's.

Back to alliance or you going to briefly say "hi" again? 

[raydeen]

What's the best leveling spec for a Warlock?

"Best" is completely subjective.  I am leveling Demonology just because I like how quickly things die.  Some people like leveling Affliction, but I didn't really care for it, so personal style may make a difference there.

I would have to say depends on the server type. My thinking has generally been PvE = Demonology and PvP = Affliction, but that actually sort of went out the window with my current main as I hit 70 with her with just about pure Demon on a PvP server. (threw some points into Affliction and Destruction to enhance the dots but that was about it). I also mainly stick with the Void as he holds good aggro in PvE and Sacrifice can be a life saver in PvP. Demon also helps a lot as your pet takes a bit of the damage you would normally take. Anything that keeps you alive even just a little bit longer is good.

[Ingmar]

Elemental actually goes through a period in the early 70s where the mana use starts to kind of suck, or at least mine did. I think it was the redesign this expansion that relies so heavily on lava burst, which you don't get until level 75, that made 70-75 problematic. After I got lava burst it was back to normal.

[dd0029]

I will agree with leveling to 70 at least as Affliction.  There's a fair amount of spell damage gear out there for leveling now that really benefits shadow damage.  Once I got Imp Howl of Terror, I never pulled less than four.  Anything else is just a waste of time.  It really kicks off once you get to Outlands and some increased mob density.  Zangarmarsh was awesome.  Fearbombs beget autopulls which just make things faster.  I did switch from Affliction -> Demonology -> Destruction once I got to Northrend.  The mobs just hit too hard in Northrend to be able to sustain my fear bomb strategy and the thought of modifying it made me sad.  With quest gear, most mobs die before they get to you as destruction or may get a single hit in.  Mana is something of an issue, but tapping is ususally sufficient.  Plus, you can PvP with it.  Three button combo is ftw.  Immolate, Chaos Bolt and Conflag and most people are dead before they realize you are targeting them. 

Speaking of PvP, do not forget about those mid level PvP rewards.  The AB boots in particular are awesome, free runspeed enchant.

The beginning of the EJ Twinking thread has some good recommendations for casters and gearing.

[Draegan]

I only have one 80 which I leveled through the release of WOTLK, so I had done most of the quests.  Now with the dungeon finder I'm leveling faster than my quests.  Is there a list of quests you NEED to complete?  Basically the phase quests etc.  I know there is one in Icecrown somewhere...

Then again I'm only level 72 and still sitting in Borean Tundra.

[Nebu]

I only have one 80 which I leveled through the release of WOTLK, so I had done most of the quests.  Now with the dungeon finder I'm leveling faster than my quests.  Is there a list of quests you NEED to complete?  Basically the phase quests etc.  I know there is one in Icecrown somewhere...

Then again I'm only level 72 and still sitting in Borean Tundra.

Leveling faster than quests is just fine.  Hit 80 and finish the quests you didn't do while working on achievements.  It's a great way to make boatloads of cash. 

[Draegan]

Well yes I know that.

[Rasix]

I only have one 80 which I leveled through the release of WOTLK, so I had done most of the quests.  Now with the dungeon finder I'm leveling faster than my quests.  Is there a list of quests you NEED to complete?  Basically the phase quests etc.  I know there is one in Icecrown somewhere...

Then again I'm only level 72 and still sitting in Borean Tundra.

-You may want to do the Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade questlines in Icecrown until you open up their flight paths and faction vendors.  Ebon Blade has a lot of easy dailies. 
-Doing the Sons of Hodir quests may be important for you if you want that flight path or do not have a character with the shoulder enchants yet.  The Hodir dailies are also very easy and take almost no time.
-Oracles or Frenzypaw dailies will not open up unless you finish that quest line in Sholozar basin.

Other than that, I'm not sure any are what I'd consider mandatory.  My shaman and warlock have entire zones untouched except for obtaining their flight path.

[Nebu]

Well yes I know that.

Sorry.  Stating the obvious is what I seem to do best. 

[Draegan]

I only have one 80 which I leveled through the release of WOTLK, so I had done most of the quests.  Now with the dungeon finder I'm leveling faster than my quests.  Is there a list of quests you NEED to complete?  Basically the phase quests etc.  I know there is one in Icecrown somewhere...

Then again I'm only level 72 and still sitting in Borean Tundra.

-You may want to do the Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade questlines in Icecrown until you open up their flight paths and faction vendors.  Ebon Blade has a lot of easy dailies. 
-Doing the Sons of Hodir quests may be important for you if you want that flight path or do not have a character with the shoulder enchants yet.  The Hodir dailies are also very easy and take almost no time.
-Oracles or Frenzypaw dailies will not open up unless you finish that quest line in Sholozar basin.

Other than that, I'm not sure any are what I'd consider mandatory.  My shaman and warlock have entire zones untouched except for obtaining their flight path.

Hmm ok thats what I thought of already minus the Sholozar Basin.  I've actually never been in that zone.  Never had to go there and I skipped it last time on my 80DK.  I luckily don't have to do Hodir dailies for the enchant since I'm exalted already with one toon.

[Rasix]

Sholozar is one of my favorite zones (it's a combo of Stranglethorn, Un'goro and Nagrand) and fastest for exp, but unless you want the Mysterious Egg from the Oracles, it's very skippable. 

[Draegan]

When I last leveled a toon I went through zones and did every quest in this order:

Borean Tundra -> Howling Fjord -> Grizzly Hills -> Dragonblight -> Zul Drak _> Storm Peaks

I had a shit ton of quests left in Icecrown and Storm Peaks that i did a few of.  I'm going to hit up the Basin just because I didn't last time.

[Selby]

Borean Tundra -> Howling Fjord -> Grizzly Hills -> Dragonblight -> Zul Drak _> Storm Peaks

As a horde I always tend to go Howling Fjord -> Borean Tundra -> Dragonblight  -> Grizzly Hills -> Zul Drak (and 80 within halfway through it or so) and get every single quest that is available in there.  I may run a dungeon or two, I may not.  My first character ran all of the available low-level dungeons once and got to 80 3/4 through in Grizzly Hills ;-)

[Rendakor]

My route is Howling Fjord (complete) > Borean Tundra (til 74) > Dragonblight > Zul'Drak (til 77) > Storm Peaks, with a healthy amount of instancing thrown in. If that doesn't ding me 80, I hit the WG dailies and start the Argent Tournament; I used to add in the Ebon Blade and Argent Tournament chains, but now that the shoulder enchants are BoA I won't bother.

[Hutch]

I go:
Howling Fjord > Borean Tundra > Dragonblight > Grizzly (till 76) > Sholazar > Storm Peaks (till 78) > Icecrown (just to unlock the Argent and Ebon phased areas) > back to Storm Peaks until 80.

I love Sholazar, and don't like Zul'Drak so much.

[K9]

Seocnding Rasix on the love for Sholozar Basin. The quest density is high and the xp is good. Plus it's a much nicer zone aesthetically. Lastly, if you are a herbalist, Sholozar is the most herb-dense zone in Northrend (I think) and is great for levelling your profession.

A small thing that pisses me off about Icecrown and Zul'drak are the Vyrkul Bones and Drakkari Offerings which drop off almost every mob. While the quest items are fine, having to delete stacks of those anytime you do anything in the zone at 80 is a little tiresome. A tiny niggle I know, but a niggle nonetheless.