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Zetor
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Reply #1470 on: February 18, 2010, 11:39:22 AM

Same.. my DK got [some of] the best non-raid stuff now (I don't have the gearscore mod, but it's probably under 5200 which is what seems to be required on my server to do anything), and I have a hunch I wouldn't be let into an icc or even a toc raid since I don't have the achievements. :p I don't really care though, I still have fun grouping with my (much less geared) guildies, or tanking/healing on my other two chars.

Some more 5man content would be nice ('hard modes' of original heroics ala 45min strat / valthalak? har), but all things considered WOTLK is waaaaaaaay better than vanilla WOW for the casual player (yeah, go farm scholomance for the 80th time to watch your helm - that has useless stats on it anyway - never drop!).

Sjofn
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Reply #1471 on: February 18, 2010, 12:26:58 PM

Yeah, they definitely keep getting better and better as far as paying attention to the casual players. Vanilla totally sucked nut in that regard, I'm glad they realised it.

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Nebu
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Reply #1472 on: February 18, 2010, 12:29:26 PM

I'm still a believer that doing large scale content (10 & 25 man raids) should bestow titles, achievements, mounts, pets, and different looking gear but not better.  Sadly, the hardcore masses wouldn't like the fact that casual people have access to the same level of gear. 

Having said that, wotlk is a VAST improvement over not only vanilla wow, but over about every mmo.  I like the trend that blizzard is setting for casual gameplay. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Minvaren
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Reply #1473 on: February 18, 2010, 12:33:00 PM


(spews drink out of nose) Ok, my 4K gearscore just depressed me...


A 4987 gearscore is having the best gear you can get out of heroics and badges (including 50 frost emblems).

Good to know where that limit is...  I've made my own 2 pieces of gear from ICC patterns, and I've replaced nearly everything I can with Triumph-bought sets - helm and ring this weekend should get me to near 4200.  I could really use the hands and legs from the Frost emblem set, but man...  That's a lot of random heroics.  o_O

I'm feeling this from a different angle... sort of like "Yay, I won WoW Casual 3.3"... but now I have nothing to do.

Unlike you, I don't want to raid (never found the scripted "Boss Hokey-Pokey" all that fun)... but can't find any new content or incremental advancement for my main.

I'll be in this same place once I finish up Loremaster (shakes fist menacingly at Kalimdor).  But by then, I should have enough shards/crusader emblems to get my alts leveled up.  I'm also enjoying picking up the classic/BC dungeons and raids, myself.

"There are many things of which a wise man might wish to remain ignorant." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Ingmar
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Reply #1474 on: February 18, 2010, 12:43:07 PM

There's always http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=2336 if you really run out of things to do.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Minvaren
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Reply #1475 on: February 18, 2010, 12:53:08 PM

There's always http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=2336 if you really run out of things to do.  Ohhhhh, I see.

I never understood why I saw so many DKs killing everything that moved in Booty Bay until I found that achievement.

"There are many things of which a wise man might wish to remain ignorant." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
kildorn
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Reply #1476 on: February 18, 2010, 01:12:01 PM

Yeah, they definitely keep getting better and better as far as paying attention to the casual players. Vanilla totally sucked nut in that regard, I'm glad they realised it.

So much love for the alterations to the endgame. SO MUCH LOVE. I can actually log in completely randomly and feel like I did something fun and advanced my character in half an hour.

So much hate for failpugs with 49k hp tanks who fail at tanking H-HoL.

edit: seriously, between badge gear not being shitty and the LFG tool, they're perfectly captured the fact that WoW is a game, not a lifestyle.
March
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Reply #1477 on: February 18, 2010, 01:49:19 PM

Yeah, they definitely keep getting better and better as far as paying attention to the casual players. Vanilla totally sucked nut in that regard, I'm glad they realised it.

So much love for the alterations to the endgame. SO MUCH LOVE. I can actually log in completely randomly and feel like I did something fun and advanced my character in half an hour.

So much hate for failpugs with 49k hp tanks who fail at tanking H-HoL.

edit: seriously, between badge gear not being shitty and the LFG tool, they're perfectly captured the fact that WoW is a game, not a lifestyle.

Agreed... but I think their very success has created a new problem for which they are not *quite* prepared: Lots of folks have won WoW Casual (TM) and now have nothing to do.

If they still have a persistent error, it is thinking that 5-Man necessarily leads to 10-man --> 25-man.  No thanks.  I'm done at 5-man.
Nebu
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Reply #1478 on: February 18, 2010, 02:16:59 PM

If they still have a persistent error, it is thinking that 5-Man necessarily leads to 10-man --> 25-man.  No thanks.  I'm done at 5-man.

I agree.  I think they should be alternate, not sequential paths. 

Though what the hell do I know?  They're the ones with the money hats.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sjofn
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Reply #1479 on: February 18, 2010, 02:22:14 PM

Yeah, they definitely keep getting better and better as far as paying attention to the casual players. Vanilla totally sucked nut in that regard, I'm glad they realised it.

So much love for the alterations to the endgame. SO MUCH LOVE. I can actually log in completely randomly and feel like I did something fun and advanced my character in half an hour.

So much hate for failpugs with 49k hp tanks who fail at tanking H-HoL.

edit: seriously, between badge gear not being shitty and the LFG tool, they're perfectly captured the fact that WoW is a game, not a lifestyle.

Agreed... but I think their very success has created a new problem for which they are not *quite* prepared: Lots of folks have won WoW Casual (TM) and now have nothing to do.

If they still have a persistent error, it is thinking that 5-Man necessarily leads to 10-man --> 25-man.  No thanks.  I'm done at 5-man.

People are done at 5 man. They are also done at 10 and 25 man (there are people already done with that). "Casuals" are not in a different boat than a lot of raiders, frankly. It's not a casual-specific problem. The main difference is that casuals have anything to do in the first place.

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Reply #1480 on: February 18, 2010, 02:28:31 PM

And seriously guys, there IS a progression for non-raiders. You can buy freaking T9 without setting foot in a raid. That you finished it doesn't mean "it's time to raid," and there isn't really any pressure for you to do so. It means you finished, that's all. When my guild finishes 10 man content, we don't think it's time to do 25's. We just ignore the 25's, even though it has better gear and stuff. It's not for us.

I still do not get the hard on for EXACTLY THE SAME SHIT as the 25 man raiders. If you only want to do 5 mans, why do you need stuff designed to get you past 25 man raids? I'm not saying you shouldn't get your own gear progression, because you absolutely should, because the game gets boring as hell without one at the level cap, I just don't get why it has to be the same as the 25 people. They get better shit than I do in 10's? Whatever, I'm still advancing in my own path. You know? I wouldn't lose sleep if people did get the same shit in five mans as I do in 10s of course (hell, they essentially do right now, as I've been buying T9 like everyone else), I just think it's completely unnecessary.

God Save the Horn Players
Rasix
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Reply #1481 on: February 18, 2010, 02:34:32 PM

My end game could be braving HHOR pug groups for the offhand sword I want.   awesome, for real  I'm really glad I was finally able to get non shitty gear and new weapons (YAY) without bothering to raid, but I'm starting to feel like shutting it down until a further content patch or the expansion.   There's lots and lots I can still do, but do I want to do it? Achievement whoring and mount/pet farming sounds like stuff I only want to do while I'm on conference calls.  

So, they've taken it this far, but what now? I'm hoping they can surprise/delight me the way 3.3 did for a while.

Additionally, I'm glad they've started to make some of the holiday achievements less assy, but parts of the Valentine's day stuff is buggy as hell and still rather stupid.  And Lunar festival can still kiss my ass.

edit: I'm noticing that 3 times through something is my breaking point with their content.  This is pretty good quality as it runs pretty parallel with other games in other genres.  A replay for flavor, but a third time through becomes a chore.  3 T9 geared toons has fit this bill.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 02:37:22 PM by Rasix »

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March
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Reply #1482 on: February 18, 2010, 02:36:32 PM

And seriously guys, there IS a progression for non-raiders. You can buy freaking T9 without setting foot in a raid. That you finished it doesn't mean "it's time to raid," ...

Right, it means time to quit until Cataclysm.  Doesn't strike me as something Bliz wants.  If anything we are saying they are being victimized by their own success.  What I am openly wondering is whether investing in 5-mans would actually pay bigger $$ dividends than assuming folks will go on their raiding merry-go-round.
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Reply #1483 on: February 18, 2010, 02:39:01 PM

Pop out another 3 five man short dungeons with side grades or different stat allocations and I'm a happy man.  Get the fucking offhanders out of HHOR and put an offhand mace somewhere, damn it.

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Ingmar
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Reply #1484 on: February 18, 2010, 02:43:09 PM

And seriously guys, there IS a progression for non-raiders. You can buy freaking T9 without setting foot in a raid. That you finished it doesn't mean "it's time to raid," ...

Right, it means time to quit until Cataclysm.  Doesn't strike me as something Bliz wants.  If anything we are saying they are being victimized by their own success.  What I am openly wondering is whether investing in 5-mans would actually pay bigger $$ dividends than assuming folks will go on their raiding merry-go-round.

I don't see how you can say they're being victimized by their own success if you are looking at what casual players have had activity-wise available to them through the history of the game. There's more for them to do at 80 than there was for them to do when 70 was the cap, and there was more for them to do at 70 than there had been at 60. There's a clear trend of it only getting better for casual players as time goes on. Casual players *always* come and go from patch to patch anyway, that's one of the things that makes them casual (as a group).

In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a Sunwell-style half content patch to fill up some of that time gap before Cataclysm.

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Evildrider
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Reply #1485 on: February 18, 2010, 02:46:30 PM

And seriously guys, there IS a progression for non-raiders. You can buy freaking T9 without setting foot in a raid. That you finished it doesn't mean "it's time to raid," ...

Right, it means time to quit until Cataclysm.  Doesn't strike me as something Bliz wants.  If anything we are saying they are being victimized by their own success.  What I am openly wondering is whether investing in 5-mans would actually pay bigger $$ dividends than assuming folks will go on their raiding merry-go-round.

I don't see how you can say they're being victimized by their own success if you are looking at what casual players have had activity-wise available to them through the history of the game. There's more for them to do at 80 than there was for them to do when 70 was the cap, and there was more for them to do at 70 than there had been at 60. There's a clear trend of it only getting better for casual players as time goes on. Casual players *always* come and go from patch to patch anyway, that's one of the things that makes them casual (as a group).

In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a Sunwell-style half content patch to fill up some of that time gap before Cataclysm.

I'm pretty sure I read that there would be some slight updates but that there will be no more content patches til Cataclysm.  Cept that battleground thing coming.
March
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Reply #1486 on: February 18, 2010, 03:15:30 PM

I don't see how you can say they're being victimized by their own success if you are looking at what casual players have had activity-wise available to them through the history of the game. There's more for them to do at 80 than there was for them to do when 70 was the cap, and there was more for them to do at 70 than there had been at 60. There's a clear trend of it only getting better for casual players as time goes on. Casual players *always* come and go from patch to patch anyway, that's one of the things that makes them casual (as a group).

In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a Sunwell-style half content patch to fill up some of that time gap before Cataclysm.

In the past folks may have quit owing to the brick wall denying content to casuals; the point here is that folks (self included) will quit owing to the consumption of all (relevant) content- this is a new phenomenon that is only the result of the spectacular success of LFD and badges.

I am merely pointing out that there seems to be a Bliz assumption that now that I have my T9 stuff I'll join the ranks of raiders; instead I'll quit, because there is nothing for me to do (that I want to do) with my shiny new T9 gear and Frost Badge Cloak.

I suppose they could reduce the rewards for LFD and/or increase the badge gear costs... but then the grind factor becomes odious.  Seems to me that having something to do on parallel paths to the raiders will become a higher priority as they study the success of their LFD.
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Reply #1487 on: February 18, 2010, 03:23:20 PM

Um, quitting due to the brick wall (there's nothing left for me to do!) and quitting because "I did all the casual stuff" (there's nothing left for me to do!) is ... the same thing. Why did I quit back in vanilla? I ran out of shit to do. Why did I stop playing for a little while during TBC? Because I ran out of shit to do. Why will I probably stop playing again before Cataclysm? Because I will run out of shit to do.

The problem isn't "zomg casuals need progression" anymore. It's Blizzard needs to figure out how to release their expansions in a more timely manner.


EDIT: Essentially, the only person assuming you should start raiding as your next logical step is you.

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Cadaverine
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Reply #1488 on: February 18, 2010, 04:36:49 PM

I don't get this idea that there's nothing to do for casuals once they've gotten their badge gear from heroics.  There's a metric shitload of achievements to get, start an alt, pvp, or they could make the transition to doing 10 mans.  They could even go back with a handful of friends, and do all the old instances. If they're not at all interested in any of that, then why even play an mmo?

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Reply #1489 on: February 18, 2010, 04:48:01 PM

I would never complain about more 5-mans, but there is a different feel to raids that you can't get in a single group I find.

Some 5-mans with hardmodes would be fucking awesome though, HoR hc is a step in the right direction, but it's still easier than some TBC heroics. If you want 5-man progression you have to accept that new instances will be fucking hard. They can drop 226/245 loot, but give us something that keeps us on our toes please.

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March
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Reply #1490 on: February 18, 2010, 04:55:34 PM


EDIT: Essentially, the only person assuming you should start raiding as your next logical step is you.

Not really sure why you are picking a fight over the one aspect not in doubt.

Of course the only thing you are expected to do when you get your T9 stuff is raid; it is a stated design goal of WoTLK.

This whole line of posts started with Draegan venting that he had done all the 5-man "casual" content and _still_ couldn't raid on his server.

If I said anything controversial, it was that I don't think raiding is as neat a Blizzard thinks it is... to which you could say I was an idiot or that I wasn't playing WoW right.  But to suggest that a player who has all the T9 badge gear and some frost gear isn't expected to raid is, well, obtuse.  It is why they put the badge gear there in the first place - it is either to raid or give me a 7 month hiatus before I work on a new set of Cataclysm greens that will be better than my T9 stuff at the end of week one.

Just to make it official:
Quote from: Ghostcrawler
Part of our design goal in Lich King was to offer raiding content for that second type of more casual player.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16904292550&postId=169019802546&sid=1#30
Ingmar
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Reply #1491 on: February 18, 2010, 05:04:54 PM

Sure it is an option, but I don't think the *only* reason they offered the T9 badge gear was to get people to raid. Without it you would have run out of stuff to do even longer ago, right?

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March
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Reply #1492 on: February 18, 2010, 05:11:03 PM

Heh, I won't sign up for "only", but I'll put money on "mostly"

Not sure that I need 4T9 to better farm dailies.

All I'm saying is that the 5-man LFD was such a smashing success that people plowed through the available content like dying men in a desert chasing after water.  I wonder if it opened a few eyes to real pent-up demand that they can exploit.
Selby
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Reply #1493 on: February 18, 2010, 05:30:41 PM

There are so many achievements and hard modes to do, to say "I'm out of things to do" means "I'm out of things that I want to do" unless you've gotten your 9800 achievement points.

I am just glad that I have friends I enjoy playing with on a regular basis, otherwise I would likely be bored and have left a while ago.  I've got 4 maxed badge gear characters and am working on a 5th.  Doing that solo would suck.
Draegan
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Reply #1494 on: February 18, 2010, 06:15:45 PM


(spews drink out of nose) Ok, my 4K gearscore just depressed me...


A 4987 gearscore is having the best gear you can get out of heroics and badges (including 50 frost emblems).

Good to know where that limit is...  I've made my own 2 pieces of gear from ICC patterns, and I've replaced nearly everything I can with Triumph-bought sets - helm and ring this weekend should get me to near 4200.  I could really use the hands and legs from the Frost emblem set, but man...  That's a lot of random heroics.  o_O

I'm feeling this from a different angle... sort of like "Yay, I won WoW Casual 3.3"... but now I have nothing to do.

Unlike you, I don't want to raid (never found the scripted "Boss Hokey-Pokey" all that fun)... but can't find any new content or incremental advancement for my main.

I'll be in this same place once I finish up Loremaster (shakes fist menacingly at Kalimdor).  But by then, I should have enough shards/crusader emblems to get my alts leveled up.  I'm also enjoying picking up the classic/BC dungeons and raids, myself.

I should of said I was too poor to afford crafted items.  My GS would jump with those.
Ragnoros
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Reply #1495 on: February 18, 2010, 09:43:13 PM

PvP News!  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Quote from: Zarhym
We have several changes planned for Battlegrounds in the next minor content patch and would like to share them with you now. This patch will be available for public testing and we encourage you to participate, queue up and provide some feedback on these changes.

Firstly, say goodbye to Battleground Marks of Honor. We feel this currency system is a bit outdated and are getting rid of it. Any items which require these marks as currency will have their costs adjusted appropriately to remove this requirement. The quest NPCs will still be available to award players Honor for turning in leftover marks, but this is only to help players clear this expired currency.

Next, the Battleground holiday weekend will now be denoted as "Call to Arms" in the Battleground tab and Calendar. If you prefer a specific Battleground over all others, look for those words next to its name to determine whether or not you'll receive bonus Honor. The bonus awards for Call to Arms Battlegrounds have been adjusted.

Winning a Call to Arms Battleground for the first time in a day will award players with 30 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.
Additional Call to Arms Battleground victories after the first win for a player that day will award them with 15 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.
Losing a Call to Arms Battleground will award players with 5 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.

To bring the rate at which players obtain PvP rewards with Honor more in-line with the rate at which players obtain PvE rewards via the Dungeon Finder, we'll also be increasing the amount of Honor awarded for an Honorable Kill by 100%. In light of this, the amount of experience provided from an Honorable Kill, and the amount of Honor awarded for completing the Wintergrasp weekly quests, have been reduced by 50%.

It's important to note one thing about these 50% decreases. All Honor awarded for completing objectives in Battlegrounds and Wintergrasp is actually based on an Honorable Kill conversion rate. So if you destroy a tower in Alterac Valley for example, the Honor you're awarded is actually based on a flat number of Honorable Kills. Since Honorable Kills will now award 100% more Honor, completing such objectives will also award more Honor. This is why experience gains based on completing Battleground objectives and Honor awarded from the Wintergrasp quests are being decreased by 50%.

Now that we hopefully have your attention, we're pleased to announce the implementation of the Random Battleground system! This system will work virtually the same as the Random Dungeon option in the Dungeon Finder. Players can queue with a group of up to five players for a Random Battleground in the Battleground tab. As with the Random Dungeon option, the Battleground chosen will not be revealed until players zone into the Battleground for which they are selected. The bonus rewards for this system are identical to the updated Call to Arms bonuses.
Winning a Battleground using the Random Battleground option for the first time in a day will award players with 30 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.
Winning additional Battlegrounds using the Random Battleground option after the first random win will award players with 15 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.
Losing a Battleground using the Random Battleground option will award players with 5 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.
When using the Random Battleground option, players will not receive additional rewards if the Battleground chosen is under the effects of the Call to Arms bonuses. In other words, the bonuses do not stack. In addition, if a player has been rewarded 30 Honorable Kills worth of bonus Honor currency from either the Random Battleground system, or the Call to Arms Battleground, he or she will be rewarded 15 Honorable Kills worth of bonus Honor currency that day for each additional victory. This applies whether the Random Battleground system is used, or the Call to Arms Battleground is chosen specifically, as a player cannot be rewarded the full amount of bonus Honor more than once per day.

All of these features and changes will be available in the next minor patch which should be hitting the public test realms in the near future. Please help us out by testing this system and providing your feedback so we can make some fine-tuning adjustments before the patch's release.

Owls are an example of evolution showing off. -Shannow

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caladein
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Reply #1496 on: February 18, 2010, 10:32:00 PM

By doing additional randoms you'll get, at 80, on average, 200 400 extra honor.  Are the BGs that close in terms of honor/time at this point to make that worthwhile?

I assume they'll also remove the Battleground daily like they did when they introduced the LFD system.

Edit: Forgot to factor in the doubled Honor per HK gain.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 10:34:16 PM by caladein »

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Selby
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Reply #1497 on: February 18, 2010, 10:36:47 PM

My 10-m group finally got Putricide down on the 4th try ever tonight (a guild first).  It was late, I said "one more attempt and I'm going to bed" and we did it.  It was awesome and made us feel better than the other 10-m group that beat us to Rotface.  I'm hoping we get Putricide down on 25-m next, since we 1-shot Fester and Rot on Tuesday night.
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Reply #1498 on: February 19, 2010, 01:30:35 AM

By doing additional randoms you'll get, at 80, on average, 200 400 extra honor.  Are the BGs that close in terms of honor/time at this point to make that worthwhile?


As they stand right now, no.


It'll still be worth it to do the one random or Call to Arms BG every day, but for pure honor farming, it's AV and will forever be AV.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Drubear
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Reply #1499 on: February 19, 2010, 06:03:29 AM

So from a game design perspective, are they trying to encourage in-the-field Honor Kills (doubling the rewards) and penalizing objectives and quests? Or flattening out where people migrate to do their "farming" (i.e. use the random to spread people out from WG and AV?)

For me, I work my honor point by playing WG once a week with my toons, doing the weekly quests for the 3k each. There are 5 or so of them so that's 15k a week, which is slow but steady. I don't recall getting all that much honor in-the-field (cuz, you know, I suxxor) so I see this as a nerf to my playstyle. Maybe I need to go back to AV for a few rounds to see what my current HP rate is.

As noted, 400 HP a day for doing a daily BG doesn't seem like all that much an incentive compared to just swooping in and doing the weekly WG quests. I'm still putting my PvP set together (moving up from crafteds) so actually getting kills in-the-field are incredibly few and far between.

Or is the hidden sugar/sweetner the Arena Points which are kinda acting like Emblems of Frost in this scheme?
Draegan
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Reply #1500 on: February 19, 2010, 06:40:36 AM

Honor Grind is still an Honor Grind.

On a side note, my guild downed Rotface and Festergut last night for the first time.  Woot.
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Reply #1501 on: February 19, 2010, 09:45:03 AM

So from a game design perspective, are they trying to encourage in-the-field Honor Kills (doubling the rewards) and penalizing objectives and quests? Or flattening out where people migrate to do their "farming" (i.e. use the random to spread people out from WG and AV?)

It's mentioned in the announcement but it's worth repeating.  "All Honor awarded for completing objectives in Battlegrounds and Wintergrasp is actually based on an Honorable Kill conversion rate. So if you destroy a tower in Alterac Valley for example, the Honor you're awarded is actually based on a flat number of Honorable Kills."

The Wintergrasp quests will give the same amount of honor as before, but will be worth less relative to other sources.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Simond
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Reply #1502 on: February 19, 2010, 03:30:41 PM

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

Quote

World of Warcraft PTR Patch 3.3.3

The latest test realm patch notes can always be found at http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

The latest patch notes can always be found at http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/

General

    * Copied Test Realm characters are not copied with their achievement history in order to better facilitate the character copy process.

PvP

    * The amount of Honor awarded for an Honorable Kill has been increased by 100% for characters of all levels. Given that all avenues in the game which award players with Honor do so with a calculated conversion from a specific amount of Honorable Kills, this change means that all Honor players can obtain through various means will be increased by 100%. To offset against this in two key areas, experience gains in Battlegrounds have been reduced by 50% and Honor awarded for completing each Wintergrasp weekly quest has been reduced by 50%. When pairing the Honor rewarded from Honorable Kills being increased by 100% with the 50% Honor reduction from Wintergrasp weekly quests, and 50% experience-gain reduction from completing objectives in Battlegrounds, players will notice no change in the net amount of Honor or experience awarded in either case.
    * Battlegrounds
          o The Random Battleground system has been added! Similar to the Random Dungeon system in the Dungeon Finder, players can now queue for a random Battleground.
                + The Random Battleground option can be found in the Battleground tab of the PvP frame and is only available for level 80 characters at this time.
                + If this option is selected, players may not queue for specific Battlegrounds and a random Battleground simultaneously.
                + Similar to the Random Dungeon system, players will not know for which Battleground they are chosen when selected from the queue until they zone into the Battleground.
                + The Random Battleground option will only allow a group size of 5 players to queue together.
                + Bonus rewards will be offered for choosing the Random Battleground option.
                      # Winning a Battleground using the Random Battleground option for the first time in a day will award players with 30 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency and 25 Arena points.
                      # Winning additional Battlegrounds using the Random Battleground option after the first random win will award players with 15 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.
                      # Losing a Battleground using the Random Battleground option will award players with 5 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.
          o Daily Battleground quests have been removed in place of the Random Battleground option.
          o Battlegrounds will no longer award Marks of Honor.
                + Players with existing Marks of Honor can still turn them in to their respective faction's quest givers, including individual marks for those who may have more marks for one Battleground than another.
                + Items which previously required Marks of Honor will have their costs adjusted to remove these requirements.
          o Whenever a Battleground has the holiday bonus active, it will now be referred to as "Call to Arms" in the Battleground tab and Calendar. In addition, Call to Arms Battleground Honor rewards have been changed.
                + Choosing a specific Battleground with the Call to Arms bonus active will yield the exact same rewards as when choosing the Random Battleground option.
                      # Winning a Call to Arms Battleground for the first time in a day will award players with 30 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency and 25 Arena points.
                      # Additional Call to Arms Battleground victories after the first win for a player that day will award them with 15 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.
                      # Losing a Call to Arms Battleground will award players with 5 Honorable Kills worth of additional Honor currency.
                + When using the Random Battleground option, players will not receive additional rewards if the Battleground chosen under the Call to Arms bonuses. In addition, the rewards for the first victory of the day cannot be earned more than once, regardless of whether or not it is obtained from the Random Battleground system or the Call to Arms Battleground.
    * Wintergrasp
          o The internal balance system now only changes when a faction achieves 2 consecutive defenses after an initial capture of Wintergrasp, up from 1. More details can be found on our PvP forum.

Dungeons & Raids

    * Culling of Stratholme
          o Players may now skip the initial introduction dialog to this dungeon once they have completed it at least once.

Classes: General

    * Several raid buffs have had their ranges increased to 100 yards, up from 45 yards, to prevent select buffs from repeatedly getting applied and removed during highly mobile encounters. Some buffs, such as paladin auras, totems, shouts and Blood Pact are intentionally meant to have shorter ranges and remain unchanged.

Death Knights

    * Icy Touch: This ability now causes a very high amount of threat while the death knight is in Frost Presence.
    * Rune of Razorice: Now stacks 5 stacks of 2% Frost Vulnerability instead of 10 stacks of 1% Frost Vulnerability. Proc chance changed to 100%.
    * Talents
          o Blood
                + Abomination's Might: This effect is now passive instead of being a proc on certain strikes. Rank 1 is 5% attack power and Rank 2 is 10% attack power. The self strength buff remains unchanged.
                + Will of the Necropolis: There is no longer a cooldown on the frequency at which this talent can be activated. In addition, this ability can now also be triggered by damage which deals less than 5% of your health.
          o Frost
                + Endless Winter: No longer causes Frost Fever to be applied by Chains of Ice, but instead grants 2/4% strength. The previous functionality of this talent can now be attained via the Glyph of Chains of Ice.
                + Improved Icy Talons: This effect is now passive instead of being a proc. The self haste buff remains unchanged.
                + Nerves of Cold Steel: Now increases off-hand damage by 8/16/25%, up from 5/10/15%.
                + Unbreakable Armor: The amount of strength granted is now 20%, up from 10%.
          o Unholy
                + Scourge Strike: Now deals 70% weapon damage, plus 12% of physical damage done as shadow damage for each of the death knight's diseases on the target. The net result should be larger strikes with no diseases present, while maximum damage with all diseases applied to the target should stay the same.

Hunters

    * Talents
          o Beast Mastery
                + Ferocious Inspiration: This ability is now an aura and provides 1/2/3% damage to all party or raid members within 100 yards.

Mages

    * Frostbolt: Spell power scaling on this spell has been increased by approximately 5%.
    * Talents
          o Arcane
                + Arcane Empowerment: This effect is now passive instead of being a proc off of critical strikes. The self damage buff remains unchanged.
                + Incanter's Absorption: This talent now only grants additional spell power when damage is absorbed by Mana Shield, Frost Ward, Fire Ward, or Ice Barrier. The limit of 5% of the mage's health on the spell power buff has been removed.
          o Fire
                + Burning Soul: Threat reduction is now 10/20%, up from 5/10%.
          o Frost
                + Brain Freeze: This talent now allows your next Fireball or Frostfire Bolt to be instant and cost no mana. There is a small internal cooldown to keep the Frostfire Bolt from immediately triggering Brain Freeze again.

Priests

    * Talents
          o Discipline
                + Renewed Hope: now has a 60-second duration, up from 20 seconds, but a 20-second cooldown.

Rogues

    * Rupture: The damage-over-time component of this ability can now produce critical strikes.
    * Talents
          o Subtlety
                + Filthy Tricks: Now Reduces the cooldown by 5/10 seconds and energy cost by 5/10 of Tricks of the Trade, Distract and Shadowstep abilities, and reduces the cooldown of Preparation by 1.5/3 minutes.
                + Ghostly Strike: If the rogue has a dagger equipped, this ability now deals 180% weapon damage instead of 125%.
                + Hemorrhage: If the rogue has a dagger equipped, this ability now deals 160% weapon damage instead of 110%.
                + Slaughter from the Shadows: Now adds 1/2/3/4/5% damage to all attacks in addition to its current effects.
                + Waylay: The debuff from this talent can now be caused by Backstab in addition to Ambush.

Shaman

    * Flame Shock: The damage-over-time component of this ability can now produce critical strikes and is affected by spell haste.
    * Talents
          o Elemental Combat
                + Elemental Oath: This ability is now always on as a passive aura.
          o Enhancement
                + Unleashed Rage: This ability is now always on as a passive aura.

Warlocks

    * Immolate: The damage-over-time component of this spell can now produce critical strikes.
    * Talents
          o Demonology
                + Demonic Pact: This effect now has a 45-second duration, up from 12 seconds, and a 20-second internal cooldown.

Warriors

    * Revenge: Damage done by this ability (base and scaling) increased by 50%.
    * Talents
          o Fury
                + Rampage: This effect is now passive instead of being a proc from critical strikes.

Items

    * Frozo the Renowned has moved into the Dalaran Magus Commerce Exchange and will be trading your Frozen Orbs for various other trade goods.
    * Glyphs
          o Death Knights
                + Glyph of Chains of Ice: Now causes Chains of Ice to apply Frost Fever instead of dealing damage.
                + Glyph of Disease: When this glyph causes Frost Fever to be refreshed, it will now also trigger a refresh of Icy Talons.
          o Mages
                + Glyph of Fireball: No longer increases critical strike chance of Fireball. Instead, it now reduces the cast time of Fireball by 0.15 seconds.
    * Mechanostriders: Summoning any of these mounts is now perfectly mechanical-sounding!

Professions

    * Runed Orbs: Recipes which require this item have had their material requirements significantly reduced.
    * Fishing
          o The "Monsterbelly Appetite" daily fishing quest has changed so it now takes place outside the Violet Hold in Dalaran. The quest still requires a Severed Arm and has been renamed to "Disarmed!"
    * Inscription
          o Most recipes that required 2 inks now only require 1.
    * Mining
          o Titansteel Bar: Creating this item no longer results in a cooldown.
    * Tailoring
          o Glacial Bag: Creating this item now invokes a 7-day cooldown.
          o The cooldown and location requirements have been removed from creating Moonshroud, Spellweave and Ebonweave.

Quests

    * Many quests which require vehicles have had their vehicle mechanics updated and improved in the interest of fun.

User Interface

    * All Alert pop-ups now have new and fresh Alert icons.
    * Auction House
          o If the Auction House on a realm is unavailable for any reason, an alert will pop up informing players who attempt to access it.
          o Players can now Right-Click to place an item in the Auction frame.
          o Entire stacks of a specific item type can be placed in the Auction frame and several options have been added for choosing how to list auctions.
                + Stack Size: If a stack of items has been added to the Auction frame, players can select the size of the stack they wish to sell. If an invalid stack size is entered (i.e. a stack of 21 Saronite Ore), the Create Auction button will be grayed out.
                + Number of Stacks: In addition to selecting the size of a stack, players can select how many stacks of an item they wish to sell (i.e. if a player has a total of 43 Saronite Ore in the Auction frame, they can choose to list 2 stacks of 20, 4 stacks of 10, 8 stacks of 5, 43 stacks of 1, etc. If the number and amount of stacks listed results in a remainder, the left-over items will be placed back in the player's bags automatically).
                + Stack Size and Number of Stacks are linked mathematically so that altering the variables of one may automatically calculate the amount of the other (i.e. if a player puts 20 in the Stack Size field and 43 Saronite Ore are in the Auction frame, the Number of Stacks field will change to 2 by default. If a player only wishes to sell one stack of 20 Saronite Ore, the Number of Stacks field can be manually changed to 1).
                + Price: Players can now choose to input the price of an item Per Stack or Per Item by selecting either option from a pull-down. If Per Item is selected and a player is selling a stack of that item, the Auction House will multiply the selected Per Item price by the amount of that item in the stack. If Per Stack is selected, the player can enter the total price he or she wishes to charge for each stack of that item being listed.
                + Auction Post Completion Bar: If multiple items or stacks of items are being listed at once by a player, a Posting completion bar will appear showing the total progress of each individual auction being listed once the Create Auction button is selected. The greater the number of individual listings being made in a single press of the Create Auction button, the longer this process will take. Players can still browse the Auction House while the Posting completion bar is in progress, but moving around will interrupt the progress, similar to moving while attempting to create multiple bandages with First Aid. Just as with creating bandages, auctions that were completed prior to the character moving or otherwise canceling the actions will successfully be listed.
    * Dungeon Finder
          o The Deserter debuff given to players who leave a dungeon prematurely when queuing via the Random Dungeon option has been increased to 30 minutes, up from 15 minutes. The cooldown for using the Random Dungeon option remains 15 minutes.
          o The Random Dungeon cooldown is no longer displayed as a debuff. Instead, players will see the cooldown time remaining displayed in the Dungeon Finder window when Random Dungeon or Random Heroic Dungeon is selected from the pull-down.
          o If a player in your party has the Deserter debuff, or is on cooldown from the Random Dungeon option, his or her character name will be displayed in the Dungeon Finder window listed as "On Cooldown," preventing the group from queuing.
          o Anyone in a dungeon party can now re-queue their group for a dungeon, as players will still be prompted whether or not to accept their chosen role.
          o Players who use the Vote Kick option will now be prompted to provide a reason for kicking a party member. This reason will be presented to everyone in the party except for the person voted to be kicked.
          o When joining as a group, more generous level requirements will be used instead of Random Dungeon level requirements so that players of different levels joining together will be eligible for a greater number of dungeons.
          o World Event bosses (such as Ahune for the Fire Festival) will now be accessible through the Dungeon Finder. Players must use the Dungeon Finder to access these bosses.
          o Parties randomly created via the Dungeon Finder will always be arranged in the party interface from top to bottom in the following order: tank, healer, damage, damage, damage.
          o If a random party is created via the Dungeon Finder and a player cannot roll Need on an item, a reason will now be provided.
    * Authenticator Frame: If a player has a Battle.net Authenticator attached to his or her account and selects Remember Account Name at the login screen, the next time that player logs into World of Warcraft, a field to input the Authenticator code will be displayed below the password field.
    * The World Map will now provide an option to display different levels of a multi-layered dungeon, zone, or city (i.e. players can view the map of the Dalaran Sewers without having to be in that location).
    * Quest Tracking Feature
          o The Quest Tracking Objectives Frame can now be widened via the Interface Options menu.
          o The short description for a tracked quest is now displayed on the Map in the quest pane.
          o Quest items in a player's inventory which begin quests now each have an exclamation point overlaid on their icons to make them more easily identifiable.
          o If a players selects Track Low Level Quests, the quest objectives will no longer appear dim on the Map, nor will the exclamation points appear dim over NPC heads or on the Mini-Map.
          o Objectives Frame
                + The Objectives Frame will now list the number of quests displayed at the top. In addition, players can now click on the word "Objectives" at the top of the Objectives Frame for a list of sorting and filtering options which will determine how quests are ordered. Any quests or achievements filtered or sorted out of the Objectives Frame are still being tracked and are simply hidden in this frame.
                      # Sorting
                            * Sort by most difficult quests.
                            * Sort by least difficult quests.
                            * Sort by quests closest in proximity to the player (this will automatically update as players travel around).
                            * Manual sorting: This allows players to Right-Click on each quest name in the Objectives Frame and determine in what order they should be placed.
                      # Filtering
                            * Toggle achievement tracking.
                            * Toggle completed quest tracking.
                            * Toggle tracking quest objectives in other zones.
                + Players can now Shift + Click on a quest objective or check the Track Quest box on the Map to track a quest in the Objectives Frame.
    * For additional notes on Lua and XML changes please visit the UI & Macros forum.

Bug Fixes

    * When speaking to an NPC for which a player has 2 or more quests and not all of them are complete, the incomplete quests will now correctly show as a gray question marks in the dialog box. In addition, repeatable quests will be properly colored as blue exclamation points or question marks in the dialog box for NPCs with multiple quests available, or for which the player has multiple quests in progress or completed.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Minvaren
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1676


Reply #1503 on: February 19, 2010, 03:58:31 PM

Warriors

    * Revenge: Damage done by this ability (base and scaling) increased by 50%.

 awesome, for real

    * Mining
          o Titansteel Bar: Creating this item no longer results in a cooldown.

Have some (nearly) free Titansteel plate armor when you hit 80...

    * Dungeon Finder
          o The Deserter debuff given to players who leave a dungeon prematurely when queuing via the Random Dungeon option has been increased to 30 minutes, up from 15 minutes. The cooldown for using the Random Dungeon option remains 15 minutes.

Mixed feelings - more penalty to casually quit, more penalty to justifiably leave.

"There are many things of which a wise man might wish to remain ignorant." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028

Badicalthon


Reply #1504 on: February 19, 2010, 04:27:23 PM

    * Dungeon Finder
          o The Deserter debuff given to players who leave a dungeon prematurely when queuing via the Random Dungeon option has been increased to 30 minutes, up from 15 minutes. The cooldown for using the Random Dungeon option remains 15 minutes.

          o Our Oculus bribe bag was a failure. If this new penalty doesn't work, we're just gonna come to your house and make you do it at gunpoint.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
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