Cataclysm

[Fordel]

When does Rift come out?


That's when we'll see 4.1 is my guess. 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2189-Patch-4.1-on-PTR-Zul-aman-and-Zul-gurub-are-back!

[Merusk]

Two new heroics that require full Heroic gear (or near full and a handfull or epics) and nerfs for anyone not a Druid, Hunter or Arms warrior.  Elemental shaman look like it'll be a wash on their AOE damage but I haven't played the class since early LK in the 40s so I don't know how valuable earthquake is. 

Sure there's shiny new mounts, but you have to slog through the original heroics to get to them.  I don't think this is going to bring back anyone who quit because they found that whole experience unfun.   They seem to understand that folks want purples but are fixated on the whole, "you must gear up completely in Heroics first," thing.

I'll admit I was wrong about them being unable to push it out against Rift.  I just wish it wasn't so transparent an attempt with the very thin outline and promise of more "updates in the coming weeks!"

[Sheepherder]

Sucks to be me.  I farm ZA for money.

Throw in the raiding game where the cross-queueing tank doesn't get to tank in raid and you've polished up that negative feedback loop nicely.

This wouldn't be an issue if plate DPS and tanks shared loot (aside from the occasional mastery/hit or mastery/expertise piece).

[Paelos]

I like the idea of them adding heroics with actual epics in them, but it's only a small step on the right direction.

[Rendakor]

Are you really surprised that they upped the ilvl requirement for the new heroics? They're obviously going to be harder (since that's always been the trend), so if you let people go into them with the same ilvl (which they've already admitted is too low to complete the content) it'd just be fuel for the Bad Groups thread. That said, I hope they're mathematically harder but less annoying and shorter. ZG was a big place, and took a long time even to smash with a few 80s; I'm dreading a new heroic that's even longer than H DM.

[Sjofn]

The only thing that surprises me is that there's no regular version, really. Well, that and said new heroics are ex-raids. I demand a heroic Karazhan.

DO IT BLIZZARD, AND I WILL LEAP THROUGH ANY GEAR HOOP YOU PUT IN MY WAY.

[Lightstalker]

The only thing that surprises me is that there's no regular version, really. Well, that and said new heroics are ex-raids. I demand a heroic Karazhan.

DO IT BLIZZARD, AND I WILL LEAP THROUGH ANY GEAR HOOP YOU PUT IN MY WAY.

Karazhan presently has a disused flight point and upper enterance near the top of the tower.  Enabling a Karazhan heroic is only a matter of time.

[Simond]

Read: When SWTOR hits open beta.

[Hutch]

They'd have to break Heroic Karazhan into at least two dungeons. I mean, there are 11 bosses in there. Even if you skipped the optional ones, there's still so many fights in there that you'd have trouble finishing it in one go.

Especially in a pug. You'd face not Malchezzar alone, but the legions of bads at his command.

[Ingmar]

Yeah I am in the 'more Karazhan would make me stick around for at least another year by itself' club, I love the shit out of that place.

[apocrypha]

Elemental shaman look like it'll be a wash on their AOE damage but I haven't played the class since early LK in the 40s so I don't know how valuable earthquake is.

Hardly ever use earthquake on mine. Couple of places where it's fun (eg. the 70 or so mobs infront of the last boss in Stonecore) but AoE is only really viable now when you get packs of 6+, and even then it's a huge mana drain. Can't say about the raiding situation, are there any large AoE fests?

Brings me on to my next question....

Anyone here on an EU server in a smallish, friendly guild who'd consider letting me transfer a character over and joining them? I've got lots of characters so I'm willing to fill any gap available. As it were.

I'm itching to do some raiding, and there's just no chance in my guild. We can't recruit new people cos we have a couple of members who are pathologically antisocial, so will just disappear if I recruit some strangers. I also don't like the idea of moving a character to a total strangers guild, which is why I ask here - even if you lot are insane you're an insane I'm familiar with 

[Rendakor]

Maloriak has some AOE during the green phase, as does Anshal in the Wind Council encounter.

[caladein]

Magmaw, Maloriak, Conclave of Wind, Halfus (some times), and Cho'gall are all "OMG, AOE NOW NOW NOW!" fights.

[Paelos]

Magmaw, Maloriak, Conclave of Wind, Halfus (some times), and Cho'gall are all "OMG, AOE NOW NOW NOW!" fights.

Didn't they nerf AoE damage?

[WindupAtheist]

Haha, Blizzard's return shot across Rift's bow are a couple of revamped years-old troll instances. Forums reacted with a yawn from what I saw. If Rift flops it's all on their own heads.

[Sheepherder]

Or Blizzard is just not worried enough to go through the :effort: to break another competitor even before their sheer incompetence has caught up with them.

[Ingmar]

Firelands raid (and presumably anything else in that same raid tier) will be in there too, mind you.

On the other hand, Ragnaros looks completely stupid with legs:

[Nightblade]

Firelands raid (and presumably anything else in that same raid tier) will be in there too, mind you.

On the other hand, Ragnaros looks completely stupid with legs:

It looks like a Tauren trying to cosplay Ragnaros.

[Paelos]

 

[Lantyssa]

He looks pretty silly in general.

[Nevermore]

So which class will get stuck with his shoulders for their Tier X armor?

[Merusk]

They look like shaman shoulders to me.

[Sjofn]

Color it some hideous shade of green or purple (ideally both!) and you have the warrior set imo.

[ezrast]

Add murlocs and it's a hunter set!

[Selby]

Not sure... looks like an entire warlock set to me!

[Simond]

Or Blizzard is just not worried enough to go through the :effort: to break another competitor even before their sheer incompetence has caught up with them.

I'm guessing you didn't play the RIFT beta?

[WindupAtheist]

Or Blizzard is just not worried enough to go through the :effort: to break another competitor even before their sheer incompetence has caught up with them.

Yeah, they could have put dungeons in this patch somebody would give a shit about, but they just didn't want to.

[Ingmar]

Or Blizzard is just not worried enough to go through the :effort: to break another competitor even before their sheer incompetence has caught up with them.

Yeah, they could have put dungeons in this patch somebody would give a shit about, but they just didn't want to.

Buzz is good about those dungeons from what I've seen in game, nostalgia generally plays well in WoW.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Not sure about most people but im getting fucking tired of this nostalgia bullshit. I fought onyxia/ragnaros/nefarian/zul aman/zul gurub and hell im probably missing some other shit too but I want "new" content. This "merely a setback" shit pisses me right off.  Gonna play rift for a while and enjoy it, nothing about wow right now is pulling me in.


Also, ragnaros has tiny ballerina feet.

[kaid]

They'd have to break Heroic Karazhan into at least two dungeons. I mean, there are 11 bosses in there. Even if you skipped the optional ones, there's still so many fights in there that you'd have trouble finishing it in one go.

Especially in a pug. You'd face not Malchezzar alone, but the legions of bads at his command.

If you look at halls of origination that has a LOT of bosses/sub bosses as well so it does not appear they are afraid of longer 5 mans at the moment.

[apocrypha]

If you look at halls of origination that has a LOT of bosses/sub bosses as well so it does not appear they are afraid of longer 5 mans at the moment.

And 90% of pugs I've been in skip 4 bosses in HoO. Plenty of people already drop Heroic Deadmines straight away 'cos it's too long. Remember when zoning into Halls of Stone meant you had a 50% chance your tank would drop instantly because a 4 minute event was too tedious for them?

Recycling old content and making the resulting heroics take over 40 mins to run is really not going to go over well with most people.

[Hutch]

They'd have to break Heroic Karazhan into at least two dungeons. I mean, there are 11 bosses in there. Even if you skipped the optional ones, there's still so many fights in there that you'd have trouble finishing it in one go.

Especially in a pug. You'd face not Malchezzar alone, but the legions of bads at his command.

If you look at halls of origination that has a LOT of bosses/sub bosses as well so it does not appear they are afraid of longer 5 mans at the moment.

What apocrypha said. Also, four of the bosses in HoO are across an empty room from each other, whereas the bosses in Kara are separated by long passages full of trash.

Now, if they give Kara the same Heroic treatment that Deadmines and SFK got, i.e. new bosses and encounters and maybe not quite so much trash, this all becomes academic. On the other hand, the Kara that people are feeling nostalgic for is the Kara that I am describing, i.e. lots of bosses and lots of trash, spread out inside a beautiful castle-style dungeon.

[Rokal]

I'm pretty happy to see ZG and ZA coming back. I was a fan of both dungeons. In general, I'm enjoying the nostalgia-fest in Cata (like BWD's zone in area being the ledge that you fought Nefarian on in BWL). This patch is introducing 1 (or more?) brand new 5-man as well, so it's not just recycled content.

Remember that back door in Kara after the Opera? That would be a good location to split Karazhan at. The opera even is fun enough to be the climax of a dungeon, and that would leave 4 bosses for one heroic (Attumen, Moroes, Maiden of Virtue, Opera) with the optional basement, and 6 bosses for the other (Curator, Chess, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Malchezaar). Considering that 3 of those are optional, it's not too bad for a split. You could throw Nightbane into either half of the dungeons, but it might make more sense as the last boss of the first half (right after Opera). That way you have Nightbane as the end-boss for one heroic, and Malchezaar as the end-boss for the other.

[Setanta]

Heroic model Aran should be the original "OMG move out of storm while wreathed and being nuked by elementals while he vortexes you and novas". THEN people can complain about how hard dungeons are :D

I wouldn't mind seeing Gruul's Lair make a comeback too - and a retard-friendly Magtheradian fight :D

[Merusk]

The only way to make Mag any more retard friendly these days is to reduce or remove the channelers holding him.  The cube clicking is down to one guy on one cube will stop the enrage, with no debuff for clicking and, I think, no damage taken for clicking either.