Cataclysm

[Fabricated]

Aw fuck these guys. Not active in Battlegrounds? Why don't they just make it "not seen by arena opponents and members of other faction" instead? Then I'd actually get to see my cosmetic gear when I'm playing the game, and not just while I'm sitting in city waiting for a queue to pop. Why do the other tools in my BG need to see my real gear? And why only helmet and shoulders?

Fuck Blizzard, there's some shit they just Don't Understand. They HAVE to have been getting beaten in the face with "appearance tab you assholes" whenever they do any market research, otherwise they'd still be convinced that everyone loves their Iconic Shoulders(tm). This is so counter to their usual bullshit attitude and so half-assed.

I get the annoyance but I think you'd probably get more annoyed the fifth time you ran into a premade BG group where everyone was in the twill set.

[Ingmar]

That being said, I do think the cosmetic piece should be of the same type of armor as the actual piece.  ie: you can only overlay plate over plate, leather over leather, etc.

Bleh, I don't. I figure if you can wear it normally, you can wear it in your cosmetic slot. Why not? Does it really ruin your day if the tank is wearing his or her prettiest pink dress to tank Arthas?

It would bother me (as we've gone over before in some thread or another.) MY IMMERSION. On the other hand if they're restricting it to hats and shoulders I don't really care so much if it has to match. Someone tanking Arthas in a brewfest hat isn't quite as irritating as someone doing it in full lederhosen.

Anyway, re: shoulders in arenas/BGs, they're helpful both for target identification purposes and for 'how badass is this guy' evaluation purposes. Seeing how crazy someone's shoulders are is a fairly useful measure of 'should I blow cooldowns on this guy' or whatever.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I also wish to add. FUCK noggenfogger in bg's...seriously

[SurfD]

I also wish to add. FUCK noggenfogger in bg's...seriously

Hey, at least you can USE noggenfoggers.

I'm a feral druid.  I stare at bear or cat ass 99.99% of my play time.  The ONLY item currently in the game that lets us shift into some other cosmetic form is an INSANELY RARE epic drop from random northrend mobs that gives us the new option of, wait for it, Gorilla ass......

If i could, I would pour that noggenfogger down your throat untill you choked on it.

[caladein]

Yeah, so...? What, are we gonna turn on Trade and see "Ok guys, forming raid for rated battleground. I'm not gonna use gearscore, wowheroes, armory, or even inspect. Everyone fly to Ironforge and let me eyeball you to see how your gear is."

Or did you just not read very closely and miss that part where I specified that enemies should always see your real gear?

If I can turn off "your" cosmetic options, I have no problem with it in PvP.  Shoulders are still useful information for me as a healer to have in a BG because I'm really not going to remember the other 9-24 people's gear off the top of my head.

[Fordel]

Anyway, re: shoulders in arenas/BGs, they're helpful both for target identification purposes and for 'how badass is this guy' evaluation purposes. Seeing how crazy someone's shoulders are is a fairly useful measure of 'should I blow cooldowns on this guy' or whatever.

No they aren't. It's very common to have someone with the awesome shoulders then shitty crafted PvP greens in every other slot. You want to know what your up against, check HP/Mana levels.


Plus, Druids 

[Ingmar]

I said "fairly useful", I'm not sure why you decided that I meant "foolproof way of always telling". 

[sickrubik]

If this thread has taught me one thing, it's that only polar arguments are allowed. So, pick a side, we're at war.

[caladein]

I'm all for toggles.  You could add all sorts of cosmetic options and I wouldn't care as long as I could turn them off on my end.

[WindupAtheist]

Man, was I playing a different game throughout WOTLK? Because in the game I was playing, 90% of everyone was wearing identical badge shoulders and you couldn't tell a warrior from a DK from a pally unless you moused over them.

Turning it off in BGs means it may as well not exist. Anymore the BGs and dungeons are the game. All that "world" shit is just a lobby.

[Ingmar]

Seeing someone in PVE badge shoulders is, right there, telling you a potentially useful bit of information.

[Fordel]

Seeing someone in PVE badge shoulders is, right there, telling you a potentially useful bit of information.

Until it's just their PvE stat stick item and they are actually decked out in full resilience. Or you could also have stuff like http://www.wowhead.com/item=51580 vital class info there.

This ignores the fact you can't see half the items visually to begin with, notably the trinkets which are game changing for caster/healers these days.



There are games where the visual silhouette is very important for identification, WoW is not one of those games.

[Ingmar]

Seeing someone in PVE badge shoulders is, right there, telling you a potentially useful bit of information.

Until it's just their PvE stat stick item and they are actually decked out in full resilience. Or you could also have stuff like http://www.wowhead.com/item=51580 vital class info there.

This ignores the fact you can't see half the items visually to begin with, notably the trinkets which are game changing for caster/healers these days.



There are games where the visual silhouette is very important for identification, WoW is not one of those games.

Once again, I didn't say it was perfect.

But, let's say you're a ret paladin. You run into someone in a BG. Because of how your cooldowns work, you have the choice between popping wings on someone, or saving it for bubble.

You see someone wearing PVE shoulders and a PVE weapon, you can say "this person probably doesn't have very good defenses, but probably DOES have pretty good damage output. I will keep my cooldown for bubble, because my regular damage will probably kill them fine but they might be able to put some extra burst on me so I'll keep that defensive cooldown in reserve just in case."

You see someone wearing PVP shoulders and possibly toting a PVP weapon, you can say "this person probably has a lot of defenses, I probably need to pop wings to kill them fast enough."

You see someone with noggenfogger on and you can say "fucking cosmetic disguise potion took away one of my decision making tools."

YES, you will run across people this decision tree is useless against (oh look a moonkin) or people who will try to disguise themselves a bit. More often than not, though, knowing what different shoulder graphics mean when you see them is actually a little bit helpful.

[Sjofn]

The omg my immersion thing about people tanking in dresses is silly, partly because (at least for Ingmar), it will hardly ever come up. None of the tanks in our guild would tank in a dress (although now I totally would in my BREWFEST REGALIA at least once). I also suspect after the novelty wears off, it won't come up that much in PUGs. It still seems like a ridiculous place to draw a line in the sand to me, because it's not like there's not a fuckton of immersion shattering bullshit in other parts of the game. I'm not one of those people who goes "lol magic, therefore moon bases," but WoW gave up on being an immersive experience (it still can be but not very often) a long time ago.


EDIT: The MAIN reason I object to plate only on plate, etc, it because there's lots of MAIL that would look good on a tank. Just like a druid might want to wear cloth, now that you'd actually see their caster form if they're a healer. I think downgrading material would much more often work like that rather than SLINKY BLACK DRESSES FOR EVERYONE RAAR.

[Fordel]

You see someone with noggenfogger on and you can say "fucking cosmetic disguise potion took away one of my decision making tools."

YES, you will run across people this decision tree is useless against (oh look a moonkin) or people who will try to disguise themselves a bit. More often than not, though, knowing what different shoulder graphics mean when you see them is actually a little bit helpful.

Or you look at their HP/Mana Totals and instantly recognize what type and level of gear, and usually their spec on top of that. 

[Lantyssa]

I love how the two members of an arena team approach the validity of visual identification from opposite ends of the spectrum.

EDIT: The MAIN reason I object to plate only on plate, etc, it because there's lots of MAIL that would look good on a tank. Just like a druid might want to wear cloth, now that you'd actually see their caster form if they're a healer. I think downgrading material would much more often work like that rather than SLINKY BLACK DRESSES FOR EVERYONE RAAR.

I'm totally tanking in my slinky PURPLE dress if this comes to pass.  Only on runs where Ingmar can see though.

[Sheepherder]

Dudes, arguments against this are bullshit.  It's not like this an appearance tab couldn't be toggled on and off at the drop of a moneyhat.

[Rasix]

You see someone with noggenfogger on and you can say "fucking cosmetic disguise potion took away one of my decision making tools."

YES, you will run across people this decision tree is useless against (oh look a moonkin) or people who will try to disguise themselves a bit. More often than not, though, knowing what different shoulder graphics mean when you see them is actually a little bit helpful.

Or you look at their HP/Mana Totals and instantly recognize what type and level of gear, and usually their spec on top of that. 

Or just a quick glance at their weapon(s).  Figuring out who you're fighting has never been very difficult.

[Ingmar]

Dudes, arguments against this are bullshit.  It's not like this an appearance tab couldn't be toggled on and off at the drop of a moneyhat.

I can't turn other people's helmets on when they turn them off right now, FWIW.

Or you look at their HP/Mana Totals and instantly recognize what type and level of gear, and usually their spec on top of that. 

If you have time, sure. Plenty of time in arena at the start of a match, not necessarily true in a BG.

[Sheepherder]

Dudes, arguments against this are bullshit.  It's not like this an appearance tab couldn't be toggled on and off at the drop of a moneyhat.

I can't turn other people's helmets on when they turn them off right now, FWIW.

Or you look at their HP/Mana Totals and instantly recognize what type and level of gear, and usually their spec on top of that. 

If you have time, sure. Plenty of time in arena at the start of a match, not necessarily true in a BG.

1. It's true now, so it must always be true, amirite?
2. Dude, the health/mana bar is right there.  One click and you have all the information you need.

[Fordel]

Dudes, arguments against this are bullshit.  It's not like this an appearance tab couldn't be toggled on and off at the drop of a moneyhat.

I can't turn other people's helmets on when they turn them off right now, FWIW.

Or you look at their HP/Mana Totals and instantly recognize what type and level of gear, and usually their spec on top of that. 

If you have time, sure. Plenty of time in arena at the start of a match, not necessarily true in a BG.

What time? It takes just as long to see shoulders that may or may not be relevant as it does to see HP/Mana(or Runes/Rage/Eng) that is always relevant.

[Ingmar]

1. It's true now, so it must always be true, amirite?
2. Dude, the health/mana bar is right there.  One click and you have all the information you need.

1. If you never assume that an MMO company (even Blizzard) will do things the "right" way, you never have to be disappointed when they don't.
2. I can visually ID a character faster than I can target someone and look at their health and mana bars, and it doesn't draw my eyes off the center of the screen where I can see what they're doing in the meantime.

Christ people, I never said it was some huge advantage, but it isn't nothing, either. Imagine an entire BG filled with nothing but noggenfogger skeletons. That would be really goddamn irritating, right?

EDIT: Is it really worth losing a minor skill facet to PVP just so some asshole can teabag people in a pink Easter dress? I mean, I know what WUA's answer is going to be, but come on.

[WindupAtheist]

I don't give a rat's ass if the Horde can see my real gear, those guys can't even talk as far as I'm concerned.

[Sheepherder]

Is it really worth losing a minor skill facet to PVP just so some asshole can teabag people in a pink Easter dress? I mean, I know what WUA's answer is going to be, but come on.

Dude, the datamined descriptions for the shit that's getting tested explicitly states you're not losing it.

[Stabs]

It occurs to me that if there's an appearance slot they can sell you fluff clothes in the cash shop.

[Merusk]

I believe someone mentioned that before. It was pointed out they should submit it to Blizz Marketing instead of the devs for that reason, because then it'd be placed in there tout de suite.   

[Typhon]

This thread needs more eyes-closed-and-furious-slapping!

 

[Lantyssa]

EDIT: Is it really worth losing a minor skill facet to PVP just so some asshole can teabag people in a pink Easter dress? I mean, I know what WUA's answer is going to be, but come on.

Yes.

[Simond]

Female goblin dance = Beyoncé
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVHI95MnIbM

[Malakili]

Female goblin dance = Beyoncé
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVHI95MnIbM

Yo blizzard, imma let you finish...

[Lakov_Sanite]

was there a dance sequence in any of the teen wolf movies?

[Ingmar]

was there a dance sequence in any of the teen wolf movies?

There's always this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZB7OFRUrA0

[bhodi]

Um, clearly thriller wins.

[Ingmar]

Um, clearly thriller wins.

Well sure, but they do need *two* dances for the worgen.

[Mattemeo]

After reviewing some of the character creation options and animations for both Goblins and Worgen, I just don't know how Blizzard are going to handle putting them into the game alongside the current races. We're talking worlds apart, different game generation difference, here. They have to be graphically updating the existing races, or it's going to be a visual farce. And that concerns me.