Cataclysm

[Sjofn]

They're on bosses at all. You can't have a matching suit without raiding, is the complaint.

7 toons all with frigging Troll shoulders because even the two I raid with never see the token let along fight it out with 1-2 others who are waiting for the same token. All I want is the matching set :(

I realize most are angry they have to raid at all, but some like Setanta may just be thinking "I'll have to roll against 6+ other people even if my token drops".

So respond to him, not me. 


I am completely indifferent to the threat change, personally. It'll be nice for when I'm tanking PUGs, I guess. I do think it will get more people to at least try tanking, but I think most of them will turn around and go "bleh." I haven't had many people complain about my pace when I tank, though, I usually announce "I haven't done this in a while" right at the beginning and we go on our merry way. There aren't really enough tanks for people to bitch about me. 

[Rokal]

So respond to him, not me. 

I am completely indifferent to the threat change, personally. It'll be nice for when I'm tanking PUGs, I guess. I do think it will get more people to at least try tanking, but I think most of them will turn around and go "bleh." I haven't had many people complain about my pace when I tank, though, I usually announce "I haven't done this in a while" right at the beginning and we go on our merry way. There aren't really enough tanks for people to bitch about me. 

I actually thought you were the one you made the token comment until I checked again. Trying to keep 3 conversations live might have been a bad idea.

I'd rather see a solution for threat that had the Luck of the Draw buff also give +300% threat to tanks or something, so that managing threat stuck around for raids and pre-made 5-mans, but I think it'd just lead to balance problems in the end. *shrug*

[Paelos]

Very few tanks I know that have tanked for a long time put threat generation at the top of their list when describing why they liked the job, myself included.

I enjoyed the aspects of leading, maneuvering mobs, staying upright with timely cooldowns, managing handoffs with a teammate, and being the saving oh shit jump in if the MT went down as the OT and blowing all your CDs at once.

Threat was like, maybe 8th? Idk, Sjofn has the right of it, other than when you were getting your ass handed to you by all the AE tanks in Wrath as a warrior, it doesn't come up much.

[Sheepherder]

Threat at the pull is the only major issue I've ever had while I was still playing, occasionally you get someone who can peel a boss off of you.  But then I gave up before getting into the raid game with Cataclysm because the instances were so shitty.

[Fabricated]

Can you smell the collective nervous farts of blizzard team leads after an unpleasant meeting with the bosses?

I can!

    * New Raid - The Deathwing raid, making it very likely to be the last patch before the next expansion.
    * 3 new 5-man instances - Including one in the Caverns of Time. (War of the Ancients was mentioned as a cataclysm instance a few years ago, but a lot of things have changed since then, who knows!)
    * The Transmogrifier NPC, which will let you change the appearance of any armor piece on you, while retaining the stats of your current gear. (= T12 stats, but with the Tier 2 look!)
    * Players won't be able to change the appearance of their armor into another armor type or class armor set, and you might have to own the armor before you can use it to swap the appearance of your existing armor.
    * The Void Storage is a new type of bank where players will be able to store their old armors in order to free up space in their regular bank.
    * The Abyssal Maw dungeon is gone for the moment, the storyline wasn't convincing enough/fitting.

lol, what part of "make the fucking raids easier" don't you understand Blizzard?

[Kirth]

Called it. 

[luckton]

lol, what part of "make the fucking raids easier" don't you understand Blizzard?

They do get made easier...right after the top guilds that keep their game in the spotlight have had their masochistic 'fun'.  Pretty sure all of the Cata-launch raids got nerfed to oblivion after they were made obsolete by Firelands.  It's always been that way, and I don't see that paradigm changing anytime soon.

I'm all for new 5-man stuff, esp. if they can micro-tize some of the Firelands boss mechanics so casuals can take a crack at it to keep stuff fresh.

Sounds like the last patch of Wrath to me.  Something to keep us occupied until the Pandas invade.

[Paelos]

lol, what part of "make the fucking raids easier" don't you understand Blizzard?

They do get made easier...right after the top guilds that keep their game in the spotlight have had their masochistic 'fun'.  Pretty sure all of the Cata-launch raids got nerfed to oblivion after they were made obsolete by Firelands.  It's always been that way, and I don't see that paradigm changing anytime soon.

No it hasn't always been that way. Wrath wasn't that way at all. The first level raid was very approachable from the jump, and Ulduar had an entire section of fights that were very doable right when they were released. TOC was doable by the masses. ICC had the expanding buff.

They've tried catering to the casuals and made a bunch of fun facerolly bring your friends content and printed money. They tried catering to the hardcores and lost a million subs and counting.

[Kirth]

Ulduar was the best raid in the game.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I eagerly await seeing all the other things they said would never be in the game(until subs get bad enough) how long until housing?

Changing armor is, honestly very nice but im not sure it's enough to bring me back. 

[Kirth]

I eagerly await seeing all the other things they said would never be in the game(until subs get bad enough) how long until housing?

Changing armor is, honestly very nice but im not sure it's enough to bring me back. 

server mergers in a year. or something similar under the guise of server mergers.

[caladein]

No it hasn't always been that way. Wrath wasn't that way at all. The first level raid was very approachable from the jump, and Ulduar had an entire section of fights that were very doable right when they were released. TOC was doable by the masses. ICC had the expanding buff.

They've tried catering to the casuals and made a bunch of fun facerolly bring your friends content and printed money. They tried catering to the hardcores and lost a million subs and counting.

Aside from Naxx (which was laughably easy anyway) that's really only true for 10s.  They were never tuned properly, even if you were in a strict group.  They closed a loophole and now groups like mine can have a lot of fun instead of being stuck raiding the bigger size just because it's the only one that isn't a pushover.

As for server mergers, they haven't opened new servers in the West for years and have moved a lot of local matchmaking into smaller groups and everything else is cross-server in one way or another.

[Der Helm]

    * The Void Storage is a new type of bank where players will be able to store their old armors in order to free up space in their regular bank.

There goes my hope of being able to trade BoA items... and any chance of me resubbing. 

[Lantyssa]

Did I hear "appearance tab"?

[Paelos]

Did I hear "appearance tab"?

Yep, subs fell enough to have them go to that gimmick. Next, HOUSING!

[Lakov_Sanite]

Bunny ears and lovely pink dresses, for all!

[caladein]

Still locked into armor class and class restrictions if the translation's right.  So... farming for Giantstalker it is.

[Fabricated]

Also, in terms of end-game content, Cata is flatout the most anemic expansion of the three!

BC: 8 Raids, 1 original 5-man.
WotLK: 7 Raids, 3 original 5-mans (counting Wintergrasp raid)
Cata: 6 Raids, 2 Re-hash 5-mans. (counting deathwing raid and the Tol Barad raid which is barely a raid)

[caladein]

There's more 5s in the thing you quoted and there's only one Throne of the Four Winds (with maybe another one a year from now) compared to: Gruul's Lair, Magtheridon, Onyxia, Malygos, Sartharion, and Halion.  And Naxx was a rehash too.  And Heroic Modes.

[Merusk]

Still locked into armor class and class restrictions if the translation's right.  So... farming for Giantstalker it is.

I still have my full Giantstalker set.. I break it out when the hunter's in town.  (And now that she's Human it looks even better than on a NE.)  I might go farm-up an old set of the Hero's mail, though.  That was pretty snazzy looking and this really cool shade of purpleish red.

Too bad it has to stay same to same instead of being able to go down as I was hoping for a dress-wearing paladin.  Or maybe the Watcher's Harness + Black Mageweave legs look.  Looks like it's going to be Glorious BP and Legs instead.   

DK will go back to his Noob armor for a while. That set didn't see nearly enough use for as cool as it looks.  Maybe T8 for the big, pointy horns.

[Rendakor]

Also, in terms of end-game content, Cata is flatout the most anemic expansion of the three!

BC: 8 Raids, 1 original 5-man.
WotLK: 7 Raids, 3 original 5-mans (counting Wintergrasp raid)
Cata: 6 Raids, 2 Re-hash 5-mans. (counting deathwing raid and the Tol Barad raid which is barely a raid)

Did you just pull these numbers out of your ass?
WotLK had 9 raids: Naxx, Ulduar, ToC, ICC, VoA, OS, Maly, Ony, and RS. It also had 14 5-mans: AN, OK, UP, UK, Nexus, Occu, DTK, GD, HoL, HoS, ToC, PoS, FoS, HoR. BC had more than 1 original 5 man dungeon too (obviously) but I'm not googling how many and I didn't play BC enough to remember. Cata's got more than 2 fucking 5-mans too; hell, it's got more than 2 re-hash 5-mans without even getting into the original ones.

[Fabricated]

Did you just pull these numbers out of your ass?
WotLK had 9 raids: Naxx, Ulduar, ToC, ICC, VoA, OS, Maly, Ony, and RS. It also had 14 5-mans: AN, OK, UP, UK, Nexus, Occu, DTK, GD, HoL, HoS, ToC, PoS, FoS, HoR. BC had more than 1 original 5 man dungeon too (obviously) but I'm not googling how many and I didn't play BC enough to remember. Cata's got more than 2 fucking 5-mans too; hell, it's got more than 2 re-hash 5-mans without even getting into the original ones.

I wasn't counting 5-mans that shipped with the game. I totally spaced on Ony and RS however.

So
WotLK: 9 raids if you count VoA and 4 original 5-mans (forgot ToC5)
BC: 9 raids, 1 original 5-man.
Cata: Will have 6 Raids, 2 rehash 5-mans and 3 originals presumably?

[Rendakor]

Oh, you're counting expansion-launch raids but not expansion-launch 5 mans, gotcha.  Even if 4.3 is the Deathwing patch, there's nothing to stop them from throwing in another small raid (like they did with Ony/RS) either before or after as a minor patch. Really though, all this news confirms is that all their promises about faster content and more content coming out were bullshit. We were probably supposed to get FL first, then Abyssal Maw, then Deathwing's Whatever and have 4 total tiers (like LK) instead of only 3.

[luckton]

I'm with Ren.  To ignore the shipping dungeons of Cata, Wrath and esp. BC would be silly.  The Heroic BC dungeons were the stuff that casual tears were made from back in the day, and it was the heroic-modes that made the content still relevant.

[Kirth]

Oh, you're counting expansion-launch raids but not expansion-launch 5 mans, gotcha.  Even if 4.3 is the Deathwing patch, there's nothing to stop them from throwing in another small raid (like they did with Ony/RS) either before or after as a minor patch. Really though, all this news confirms is that all their promises about faster content and more content coming out were bullshit. We were probably supposed to get FL first, then Abyssal Maw, then Deathwing's Whatever and have 4 total tiers (like LK) instead of only 3.

They can roll out the "Tournament of Elements" (Raid and 5 man) with such fun things like like daily 3d jousting (ala the quest in hyjal) all because thrall feels the need to test the champions that will face deathwing...     

[Merusk]

Hmm.. Deathwing.   I guess that means I need to go set my character AFK in Ulduar for about 12 hours so I can finally get the achieve for him.

Seriously, that guy goes to Ulduar about 2x a day on both my Horde and Alliance server.  He must love pyramids.  However, since I couldn't take another "ohh fucking sand and desolation" area I've avoided it on all of my 85's. 

[Hutch]

Hmm.. Deathwing.   I guess that means I need to go set my character AFK in Ulduar for about 12 hours so I can finally get the achieve for him.

Seriously, that guy goes to Ulduar about 2x a day on both my Horde and Alliance server.  He must love pyramids.  However, since I couldn't take another "ohh fucking sand and desolation" area I've avoided it on all of my 85's. 

Uldum?

(Incidentally, that's the one and only place I've seen Deathwing on any of my toons.)

[Nevermore]

    * New Raid - The Deathwing raid, making it very likely to be the last patch before the next expansion.
    * The Transmogrifier NPC, which will let you change the appearance of any armor piece on you, while retaining the stats of your current gear. (= T12 stats, but with the Tier 2 look!)

   

    * Players won't be able to change the appearance of their armor into another armor type or class armor set, and you might have to own the armor before you can use it to swap the appearance of your existing armor.

Oh, I so hope this is true.  It'll totally justify my squirreling away armor pieces I thought looked good for years and years since vanilla.  That, and the wailing and gnashing of teeth from those who didn't. 

[Nevermore]

Hmm.. Deathwing.   I guess that means I need to go set my character AFK in Ulduar for about 12 hours so I can finally get the achieve for him.

Seriously, that guy goes to Ulduar about 2x a day on both my Horde and Alliance server.  He must love pyramids.  However, since I couldn't take another "ohh fucking sand and desolation" area I've avoided it on all of my 85's. 

Uldum?

(Incidentally, that's the one and only place I've seen Deathwing on any of my toons.)

Really? I got my achieve in Blasted Lands and Tanaris on different characters.

[Merusk]

Err yes, Udlum.


See, I hate the zone so much I can't even remember its name properly. 

I've seen DW's aftermath in TH once.  Nearly everyone whose gotten the achieve when I was online was in Udlum at the time.  The exceptions were the few newbs or lowbies who got flamed in older areas.  Not one person in Icecrown, though.

[caladein]

Here's the official announcement with some interface screenshots: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3309048

As for things we didn't know: that this does include weapons and shields although they're also restricted by type.  So... my Ranseur of Hatred can look like a Blackhand Doomsaw, which I'm about to go make with the farming of.

[Hawkbit]

I have railed against this in the past, but I suppose I'm okay with the change as long as it stays class specific.  Rarely does gear appearance dictate how I would react in PvP. 

[Ingmar]

That's how I hoped they would do it, my fears of people tanking in their Lovely Black Dress won't come to pass.

[Paelos]

What if they just decided to push Deathwing out the door quickly and move on the next expansion that comes out in March?

[Merusk]

Here's the official announcement with some interface screenshots: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3309048

As for things we didn't know: that this does include weapons and shields although they're also restricted by type.  So... my Ranseur of Hatred can look like a Blackhand Doomsaw, which I'm about to go make with the farming of.

Oh awesome.  All my DK's weapons will look like Armageddon or Bryntroll.

C'mon 4.3