Competitive TF2

[Sjofn]

I would like to play a game where my choice of gender doesn't mean my character's main role is "eye candy for nerds." I obviously put up with it in, oh, every game ever, but a girl can dream.

That's getting into a whole politicsy sort of slap fight, though, so I shall SAY NO MOAR.

[Samwise]

This thread was a retard slapfight derail to begin with.  Let's talk gender issues!

Do Alyx from HL2 or Chell from Portal fall into the eye candy category?  I think they're fairly representative of Valve female protagonists.

(edit) fuck you iPod keyboard

[NiX]

Do Alyx from HL2 or Chell from Portal fall into the eye candy category?  I think they're fairly representative of Valve female protagonists.

I think they were properly represented as female characters go. Valve understands that it's how they fit the story, not if they're the best eye candy.

[Sjofn]

Chell was pretty good as far as that type of character goes. She's a blank slate and her femaleness doesn't matter in the least. So she's good, but also a non-entity. I love GLaDOS though. Well, really I just love Portal. Anyway, I haven't actually played HL2, so I dunno about Alyx!

I do think Valve COULD add ladies to TF2 that wouldn't drive me crazy, really it's part of the reason I wish they would, but it isn't going to happen. :(

[Samwise]

This is Alyx:
She's Gordon's sidekick slash sort of love interest in the HL2 series.

[Sjofn]

She's pretty but not all CHECK OUT MY TITS, so that's cool. I don't just fret about how they LOOK, though, I like them to have personalities beyond "I am the Girl and Love Interest." Alyx probably DOES, since Valve seems pretty good with making sure their characters have personalities, I just wanted to point out that the eye candy thing goes beyond "is she hawt" and touches on "OK, and does she have a personality?"

[Samwise]

Ah, yes, I don't think there'd be a problem with female TF2 characters not having personalities.  Even the disembodied announcer has a personality.

[NiX]

I don't know why they didn't add female variants to TF2. You could just use their outfits to make the hitbox the same size as their male counterparts. If I were to take a guess, I'd say it was a decision based on their proposed demographic, which is probably ~95% male.

[Samwise]

I suspect not having both male and female variants is more a content creation cost issue.  Think about all the work they'd have to do on dialogue alone if they added female characters.  I hold out hope that they'll add it in an update sometime after they've finished the first batch of weapons for all classes, but I can definitely see why they didn't launch with it.

[Ray]

I would just like to say I have logged many hours as a soldier, and I still totally suck at it, and I dont think I have ever hit anyone in the air with a rocket.

BTW, Ray, I recently bought Unreal on Steam, and playing it was giving me flashbacks of the Waterthread Unreal games and you in that fucking Manta.

Oh man, good times. That game was so fucking awesome and one of the best betas/demos I've ever experienced. Remember how the best onslaught map was in the fucking demo and we all played it like 24/7? That was great.

[NiX]

I suspect not having both male and female variants is more a content creation cost issue.  Think about all the work they'd have to do on dialogue alone if they added female characters.  I hold out hope that they'll add it in an update sometime after they've finished the first batch of weapons for all classes, but I can definitely see why they didn't launch with it.

Very good point. That probably deterred them greatly, especially considering they were launching Portal and the rest with it.

[Ray]

Why exactly is 6v6 the magic number for, "generally higher quality of competition?"  I would imagine you'd become too indoctrinated to play-style in that one setting after awhile, whether you like it or not.

6v6 just sort of works. Any more and the game because more chaotic and spammy, any less and it comes too empty. I didn't play competitively when the game was first out, so I don't know for sure, but I believe several leagues ran different formats until most of them settled on 6v6.

TWL (I think) still runs a 7v7 league.

There's 2-3 highlander leagues as well.

By the way, highlander is a really fun format. It's really simple: 9v9, 1 of each class per team. You know, "there can be only one!"

[Ray]

Why exactly is 6v6 the magic number for, "generally higher quality of competition?"

I'd guess that's the minimum number before the capture/payload maps become imbalanced; with smaller teams it's too easy to have one lucky skirmish that kills all the defenders at once and leads to a quick game over.  Larger teams lead to slightly more frenetic and unpredictable games, which translates to "lower quality" for super serious types.

You beat me to it, although CTF and pl_ maps aren't generally played much competitively.
Competitive play is setup the way it is in order to eliminate as many of the random aspects of gameplay as possible in order for teamwork and skill to be the focus. Hence no crits, no damage spread, low amount of spammy classes (demo, soldier), and fewer players to a side.

Larger teams lead to slightly more frenetic and unpredictable games, which translates to "lower quality" for super serious types.

It seems like that would get a little boring after a while. But I totally suck at TF2, so who cares about me!

The pyro is a dude, the muffled voice is totally dudely. I wish they did have girls, though. Well done ones, though, not eye candy stupid ones. That would muck up the silhouette thing though.

It actually stays pretty tense on most maps  because the action is focused on specific areas like chokes and control points.

Pyro's totally a chick, check out the purse in the locker in spawn!

I bet if you played 6v6 like a real man you'd know better.

(edit) Splitting this out of the sniper update thread because it's annoying me.  Carry on.

This thread was a retard slapfight derail to begin with. 

Why are you such a fucking prick? Does it really make you mad that some people have fun with other types of gameplay that has no bearing on your individual enjoyment of the game?

[Ray]

By the way, there are some female skins out there. The most popular one is probably the scout variant: http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/39114

I don't think there's any complete female skin packs, though.

As mentioned by someone else, the biggest problem with female variants is the dialog. Think about many hundreds of lines of dialog would need to be recorded again.

Speaking of skins, I don't use any now but I've used two in the past that were sort of funny:

1) Mustache pack. Just adds some cool 'staches to each character: http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/32880
2) Black pack. Turns every character black: http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/30854
Note: there is a separate Caucasian skin for the demo if you wanna go all the way

[Samwise]

Why are you such a fucking prick?

 

Also, that minstrel pack is CLASSY.

[Ray]

I never thought of it that way, but I suppose I could see how it would be offensive to some.

What's is the white skin for the demoman called, then?

[ahoythematey]

...low amount of spammy classes (demo, soldier)...

I don't play TF2 competitively, so this may just be the wrong direction in thinking, but are competitive teams really able to control themselves on that aspect?  Maybe something has changed with a recent patch, but as far as I can tell, the demo is still a ridiculous death machine in experienced hands, moreso than many other classes, especially with the right area (decent healthpack locations, good ledges and corners).

[Prospero]

Last I checked the only get one demo in most leagues. The fact they are running mostly cp maps with organized teams keeps spam from being too effecive with just one cyclops running around.

[Ray]

Right, demo is restricted to 1 per team, as are medics.

[Sjofn]

I don't know why they didn't add female variants to TF2. You could just use their outfits to make the hitbox the same size as their male counterparts. If I were to take a guess, I'd say it was a decision based on their proposed demographic, which is probably ~95% male.

As mentioned, I think they just didn't have time, etc. Since I suspect that the Lady Heavy, for example, wouldn't just be the heavy in a skirt, but she'd have her OWN personality, ultimately I don't mind they just cut it instead if my other option was something slapped together as an afterthought.  Y'know?

[NiX]

As mentioned, I think they just didn't have time, etc. Since I suspect that the Lady Heavy, for example, wouldn't just be the heavy in a skirt, but she'd have her OWN personality, ultimately I don't mind they just cut it instead if my other option was something slapped together as an afterthought.  Y'know?

Especially if compared to the other classes you could tell they were half-assed.

Ray, for the love of god, learn to edit.

[TheWalrus]

I don't know why they didn't add female variants to TF2. You could just use their outfits to make the hitbox the same size as their male counterparts. If I were to take a guess, I'd say it was a decision based on their proposed demographic, which is probably ~95% male.

As mentioned, I think they just didn't have time, etc. Since I suspect that the Lady Heavy, for example, wouldn't just be the heavy in a skirt, but she'd have her OWN personality, ultimately I don't mind they just cut it instead if my other option was something slapped together as an afterthought.  Y'know?

Female heavy would rock. It'd have to be Olga the Opera Singer. "DA FAT LADY HAS JUST SANG" Thatd be too much awesomeness to handle.

[Sjofn]

It would be pretty damn awesome.

Maybe in TF3. 

[Samwise]

Their model so far has been to update the fuck out of TF2 rather than save stuff for a sequel.  I can definitely see new character models as something they could do a big update for.  Assuming they did a good job, they'd get just as much good press and new sales as they have been with the weapon updates.

[NiX]

That was the plan for L4D. Add new models and maps. Turned out to be a sequel.

[Samwise]

Yeah.  I'm hoping that experiment will be confined to L4D and that they'll keep updating TF2 as they have been rather than deciding it's time to make the next weapons pack part of TF3.

[Prospero]

Adding new characters to TF2 doesn't carry the baggage it does in L4D. Everybody refers to each other by class so there is no need to rework the original voice acting, and the maps/characters don't form a story, so there's no need for a set of 20 maps. The only collateral they would probably have is a new Meet the Ladies movie or some such.

I'm hoping TF3 is Team Fortress, but with vehicles.That I would gladly pay more for.

[bhodi]

An early idea was a deployable machine-gun nest that could be wielded by two players. Things like that would be cool.

[NiX]

Wasn't that an idea from the mid 90s TF2?

[Prospero]

You mean a heavy/medic team?

[schild]

Heh.

The Heavy should be renamed "Deployable Machine Gun Nest." But only when a medic is attached.

[Xurtan]

Heh.

The Heavy should be renamed "Deployable Machine Gun Nest." But only when a medic dispenser is attached.

[LK]

Lady gibs wouldn't be as comical as male gibs.

It would be funny to see a gib that was a breast though.

[NiX]

Lady gibs wouldn't be as comical as male gibs.

It would be funny to see a gib that was a breast though.

What would be the difference?

[Sjofn]

They'd be. You know. Ladies.