Competitive TF2

[Ray]

Ugh, I hate to be like "I'd like to see YOU do it then" but...

They're not impossible, obviously. It DOES take a good amount of skill to land them, and even more skill to land them consistently.

[NiX]

Shooting a plane down with a rocket in BF1942 was impressive. To shoot someone that close with a rocket? Going to take a bit more to impress me.

[Ray]

If it's so easy and unimpressive, jump on an ammomod server, record a demo, and upload it for everyone to see :)

[Prospero]

It's not that hard. Three in a row is impressive. I've seen that in a couple of the play of the week episodes and been impressed, but anyone who played Quake for any amount of time knows how to rocket juggle fairly well.

[Ray]

Again, it's easy to say and not so easy to do.

Watch some of the top end team's demos off of ESEA. These are the best players in the world and even they can't land them consistently.

FYI Quake rockets travel a hell of a lost faster than TF2 rockets. A LOT faster.

The play of the week episodes are from literally HUNDREDS if not thousands of hours of scrims and matches.

[Prospero]

I've got plenty of hours logged in TF2; I know the rocket speed. As I said, three is awesome, one is meh. Once the new demo format comes out I'll be happy to post many a video of my awesomeness. I'm too lazy to deal with their current horrible system.

Now airshots with pills I find much more impressive.

[Samwise]

Why do you dislike people that play in leagues?

wargh wargh come watch some of these totally awesome videos and I'll show you how a real man plays TF2 you guys are all scrubs if you aren't down with this I bet you don't even know what ESEA is cmon whip it out and we'll measure them wargh wargh

 

[Ray]

I've got plenty of hours logged in TF2; I know the rocket speed. As I said, three is awesome, one is meh. Once the new demo format comes out I'll be happy to post many a video of my awesomeness. I'm too lazy to deal with their current horrible system.

Now airshots with pills I find much more impressive.

I'm not articulating myself very well.

One isn't much to jump around about, I agree, but it DOES feel good and it IS out of the ordinary. In a normal scrim, there's usually only a handful of airshots. In a normal pub, you're lucky to see 1 or 2 happen in an entire game. That was really my original point. Here's what I said:

Airshotting a sticky-jumping demo with a rocket while you're defending the spire on badlands doesn't really ever happen in a pub because you've got 3 sniper dots on you and nobody knows how to sticky-jump or rocketjump anyway.

That's it, just that a good part of my enjoyment of 6v6 play in the generally higher quality of competition. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy pubbing it up every once in a while (am actually pubbing right now!) and I'm not really knocking it. I just prefer the 6v6 competitive format more, and I'd like to see people try it before entirely dismissing it :)

[Ray]

Why do you dislike people that play in leagues?

wargh wargh come watch some of these totally awesome videos and I'll show you how a real man plays TF2 you guys are all scrubs if you aren't down with this I bet you don't even know what ESEA is cmon whip it out and we'll measure them wargh wargh

 

If that was the case, I'd be posting links to my own demos or CEVO record or something silly.

There's just a few people acting as if some of the more skilled techniques in the game are easy as pie, and I disagree. A lot of it is context (does Prospero play 6v6? Does NiX? I don't know.) and a lot of it is me not being clear with my definitions.

As I just said, I like pubbing every once in a while. One of my first posts in this thread was a link to a bunch of...pubs!

And I didn't call anyone a scrub.

I guess I'm a dick for trying to get you guys to try out the 6v6 format - or at least consider it - and not immediately dismiss it? I don't know.



BTW if you google ESEA, it's the first result. Sorry if it appeared I was being elitist. I don't even know what the acronym stands for!

[rattran]

People here mostly play games for fun, not for epeen waving. Not much of a crowd here for 'competition sport' stuff. Mostly because of the whole elitist pick thing.

That is all people are pointing out to you. And no, I don't watch 'frag' videos. I'd rather play the game than watch brags.

[Ray]

Oh I see. That makes sense.

I didn't realize that I don't have fun playing 6v6 tf2. Thanks for setting me straight. I see now that people only play competitive tf2 for epeen waving. Well, "play" is probably the wrong word - it implies that they have fun doing that activity. "Endure" may be a better word.

My eyes are open. I'm an elitist prick that endures 6v6 tf2 solely in order to wave something called an epeen. Why I would subject myself to an unfun activity simply so I could wave my epeen to...fuck, I don't know who I'd be waving it. Fill me in on that one?... I simply don't know. I'm sure you do though, so please do share.

I should probably call my psychiatrist.













Wait, no, it appears that you are the dick in this case. What with immediately dismissing a type of gameplay without trying it and assuming (quite wrongly!) that anyone that plays it is not only an elitist prick, but they're also narcissists that only "play" in order to brag. To whom, I have no idea. Neither do you, I'd bet.

[rattran]

You're the one proseletyzing for 6v6. This crowd doesn't do much of that thing, as you could see from everyone kinda shrugging it off when Thrawn suggested it.

I guess I'm a dick for trying to get you guys to try out the 6v6 format - or at least consider it - and not immediately dismiss it? I don't know.

No, you're a dick for taking everything personally, when people didn't show enthusiasm. I've played 6v6 and 12v12. I don't enjoy it as much as freeform. But you keep on keeping on.

[Nerf]

People in public servers don't know how to rocket jump or sticky jump? When the fuck did this happen, because I haven't played in like a year and everyone was doing both of those then.

[Prospero]

Done 5v5 arena league play. I get the format, I enjoy watching good frag vids, and even some matches. While I enjoy the intensity and team focus of 6v6, I find good ol' fashioned 12v12 with a mess of random and uncapped classes to be more fun. I think it's great you love 6v6. Get down with your bad self. But don't assume we are dismissing your preferred format out of ignorance; this isn't a politics thread.  

Now can we stop douching up a perfectly good thread about sniper awesomeness? I want to see more cool bow shots; I'm currently without an internet connection on my gaming PC and jonsing for some archery action.

[Ray]

rattran: I didn't take anything personally

Nerf: it's not like NOBODY knows how to, just in my experience most of them either don't know how to or don't know how to effectively - ie not knowing to crouch

Prospero: Fair enough. I thought I was being pretty polite and I didn't think there was really anything contentious about any of my posts at all until rattran started being a dick to me. So here's a picture of a heavy with some arrows in his head:

http://i28.tinypic.com/2h3pg07.jpg



AND HERE'S MY EPEEN WAVING JUST TO PROVE RATTRAN RIGHT!!!!

http://i28.tinypic.com/2yl7l9d.jpg

Oh wait that's on a pub :(

[Strazos]

I think I enjoy dodging arrows more than firing them.

[NiX]

I don't play soldier anymore and that's not out of convenience. The class is fairly boring on pub servers. I'd rather FAN people to death, burn 'em or arrow their faces.

[Ray]

I get really frustrated playing soldier on pubs, especially because there's either 0 medics or 1 medic who's latched onto a heavy or a pyro. It's probably a testament to my lack of skill that I feel crippled if I don't have a medic with me at all times :)

Pyro is so much fun to play, but it's so very underpowered that it gets discouraging against competent players

[Triforcer]

They need to restore the 50HP on the backburner and remove flame damage falloff again.  Those were an entertaining few weeks 

[NiX]

To be good with a pyro, it's necessary to know how to shoot the flare gun. Flare, flame, flare crit and they usually die before they can get to water or a health pack. Bonus if you can get behind them on the flame part.

[Prospero]

Yeah, once you get the flare gun down and the air blast you can mess people up something fierce. Nothing like blowing up a medic with a rocket from his kritzkrieged soldier. The axtinguisher is lovely too if you can get them in the air.

[Ray]

Ugh to theorycrafting, but here goes:

1) You're acting like it's a 1v1 fight, it looks like. Stating the obvious, but that never really happens...

2) I prefer flaregun + axestinguisher personally

3) If you're fighting anyone at range that isn't an engineer or a medic, they're going to kill you before you can close in with the flamethrower

I really like the pyro, she's just not given the tools to be truly successful. The flaregun is fun as hell, it just doesn't go beyond being a fun gimmick in a lot of cases against even mediocre players :(


and yes, the pyro is a girl!

[Ray]

Forgot to add that airblasting ubers while defending a chokepoint-ridden map (see: dustbowl 3.2) is extremely useful of course, but it also highlights the failings of those maps.

Airblasting people off of E on Steel is a ton of fun, of course :)



edit: of course of course of course of course

[Strazos]

Sounds more like attacking teams failing to remove pyros before using ubers on the bridge.

[NiX]

Ugh to theorycrafting, but here goes:

1) You're acting like it's a 1v1 fight, it looks like. Stating the obvious, but that never really happens...

2) I prefer flaregun + axestinguisher personally

3) If you're fighting anyone at range that isn't an engineer or a medic, they're going to kill you before you can close in with the flamethrower

You're not accounting for the pubbie factor. Pubbies are persistent and determined. I've had no problem killing soldiers, demo men, scouts or snipers as a Pyro. You're thinking very literally and assuming you need the flamethrower to kill. I gave the optimal scenario, which you deemed as me thinking everything was a 1v1 fight. Guess what? It is. As a pyro you can't get greedy or you're dead. Fight as if it's You VS. 1 person and you win most of the time. It's the pyro that tries to burn groups that gets crushed and gets to watch them heal or jump in water. As for actual 1v1 scenarios, well, they happen all the time. At least for me.

As for your third point, it's the opposite. Those 2 classes can ravage a pyro with ease from a distance. The engi shotgun is deadly accurate and so is the needle gun in the hands of a decent medic. Rockets? I use the backburner and still don't have trouble killing soldiers, heavies or demo men.

[Triforcer]

Pyros are useful for defending the back point of point capture or cart maps, at least on pubs.  I've found the best defense in situations like that is to get a couple pyros who continue just charge the narrow chokepoints midmap, killing one or two and scattering the rest (better with a medic, of course).  Respawn, repeat- you don't know a lot of kills to scatter everyone and buy your team 20 or 30 seconds of peace.  If the attackers are always afraid of pyros around the chokepoints, they aren't attacking the final objective.

Of course, this could be counteracted by a sentry protecting the attackers' staging area, but that happens like 1 out of every 10 times in a pub. 

[Teleku]

I've single handedly raped entire opposing sides with my Pyro.  Just keep attacking and never ever stop.

[Samwise]

I bet if you played 6v6 like a real man you'd know better.

(edit) Splitting this out of the sniper update thread because it's annoying me.  Carry on.

[TheWalrus]

You rock samwise. Thanks.

[Valmorian]

For some, I'm sure the idea of having a competitive environment where the class makeup of your team is somewhat rigid is fun.  For me, that seems like the exact opposite of fun.  The whole reason I LIKE TF2 is that I can hop from class to class depending upon what I feel like doing.

[ahoythematey]

Why exactly is 6v6 the magic number for, "generally higher quality of competition?"  I would imagine you'd become too indoctrinated to play-style in that one setting after awhile, whether you like it or not.

[Morfiend]

I would just like to say I have logged many hours as a soldier, and I still totally suck at it, and I dont think I have ever hit anyone in the air with a rocket.

BTW, Ray, I recently bought Unreal on Steam, and playing it was giving me flashbacks of the Waterthread Unreal games and you in that fucking Manta.

[Samwise]

Why exactly is 6v6 the magic number for, "generally higher quality of competition?"

I'd guess that's the minimum number before the capture/payload maps become imbalanced; with smaller teams it's too easy to have one lucky skirmish that kills all the defenders at once and leads to a quick game over.  Larger teams lead to slightly more frenetic and unpredictable games, which translates to "lower quality" for super serious types.

[Sjofn]

Larger teams lead to slightly more frenetic and unpredictable games, which translates to "lower quality" for super serious types.

It seems like that would get a little boring after a while. But I totally suck at TF2, so who cares about me!

The pyro is a dude, the muffled voice is totally dudely. I wish they did have girls, though. Well done ones, though, not eye candy stupid ones. That would muck up the silhouette thing though.

[TheWalrus]

And what would be so horrid about eye candy stupid ones? I'd play one with big bouncy tits just to get an extra second to kill the guy in front of me.