Star Wars Episodes 1, 2, & 3

[Sheepherder]

Boba Fett had some pretty bitchin' armour, and that's probably the biggest lesson to be taken away from Star Wars.

In the immortal worlds of Spike TV: if a guy looks dangerous, he probably is.

[Tannhauser]

I like Plinkett. I enjoyed Revenge of the Sith, but then again I enjoy nitpicking even more.

So, it's OK for you to nitpick me but I can't nitpick Lucas.  Got it.  Get off your hipster high-horse and watch the clip I said, it's all over their faces when they see the final cut.

As for IG-88, I was reinforcing the point Plinkett makes: If you are emotionally invested in the movie you remember the characters, (even ones only shown in my case).

Finally, if you bother to go upthread, you'll see that I had admiration for Lucas putting out something that we still talk about 30+ years later. 

[DraconianOne]

The funny thing is, in the context of the first 3 movies, Boba Fett was just as emotionally invested a character as IG-88.

...

All the bounty hunters sucked.  What was important was how much fans would wank over them.  Boba Fett just won the Jizz contest, is all.

Bollocks - mostly.

Boba Fett had an impact because of his actions, not his lines. He outsmarts Han Solo at hiding in trash, beats him to Cloud City and totally comes across as Vader's go-to man - and we're left thinking "Who the hell is this guy who says nothing, has fucking cool armour and catches Han and the gang without breaking a sweat?" John Williams even wrote a small leitmotif for Fett - not bad for an insignificant character and far more than any other bounty hunter got. I was 7 years old when I saw Empire first time around and I still remember wondering who Fett was*

It also didn't hurt that Fett got a good share of marketing - the Boba Fett 12" doll was quite a popular toy iirc. Certainly most kids I knew back in the early 80s who liked Star Wars had one. 

Of course, he died like a bitch in ROTJ, was pointlessly CGI'd into the Spec Eds and then there was that Epsiode 2 shit about Fett being a clone and all his mystique and coolness evaporates in a flash.


* I admit - for a while I thought he was Darth Vader's real son as I misheard the line "He's no use to me dead" as "He's no use to me, dad". I was just as slow and stupid then as I am now.

[Sheepherder]

Also, an EU book series about how he shot his way out of the Sarlacc and kept on being badass for a good long time.

[Margalis]

The reactions of the yes-men are the best parts of these things, it's plain as day they are trying to feign enthusiasm.

[Arthur_Parker]

He got off light with the critics and got his new moneyhat, but damn it the internet is outraged and he will acknowledge that, even if that acknowledgement consists of me analyzing his facial expressions!

I'm hunting out this facial reaction thing now just to see it.  My initial reaction to each of the new movies was generally "wow, that was shit", with the "wow" having less emphasis each time.  Some geeky guy pointing out exactly how shit they are, is surprisingly entertaining.  Am I allowed to laugh at both camps?

[Ironwood]

The funny thing is, in the context of the first 3 movies, Boba Fett was just as emotionally invested a character as IG-88.

...

All the bounty hunters sucked.  What was important was how much fans would wank over them.  Boba Fett just won the Jizz contest, is all.

Bollocks - mostly.

Boba Fett had an impact because of his actions, not his lines. He outsmarts Han Solo at hiding in trash, beats him to Cloud City and totally comes across as Vader's go-to man - and we're left thinking "Who the hell is this guy who says nothing, has fucking cool armour and catches Han and the gang without breaking a sweat?" John Williams even wrote a small leitmotif for Fett - not bad for an insignificant character and far more than any other bounty hunter got. I was 7 years old when I saw Empire first time around and I still remember wondering who Fett was*

It also didn't hurt that Fett got a good share of marketing - the Boba Fett 12" doll was quite a popular toy iirc. Certainly most kids I knew back in the early 80s who liked Star Wars had one. 

Of course, he died like a bitch in ROTJ, was pointlessly CGI'd into the Spec Eds and then there was that Epsiode 2 shit about Fett being a clone and all his mystique and coolness evaporates in a flash.


* I admit - for a while I thought he was Darth Vader's real son as I misheard the line "He's no use to me dead" as "He's no use to me, dad". I was just as slow and stupid then as I am now.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

 

[DraconianOne]

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

 

You're out of your element. The Bounty Hunter is not the issue here!

 

[Ironwood]

Not really.  I just don't do this kinda thing anymore, mostly due to agreeing with WUA.  That's a harsh position for a bloke to take.

[DraconianOne]

Not really.  I just don't do this kinda thing anymore, mostly due to agreeing with WUA.  That's a harsh position for a bloke to take.

I'm sad enough that I genuinely thought you were going for the Big Lebowski quote angle. More fool me.

My condolences on finding yourself agreeing with WUA though - that's a bad place to find yourself.

[Ironwood]

Thing about it is that I was probably one of the first chaps in the UK to read the Thrawn stuff and I ate through every Star Wars EU book and comic EVER, only stopping at the Vong shit that made me realise I was indulging myself in what had become CHRONIC writing.  (Hell, the Tales Books are fanwank of the HIGHEST order, beating any Star Trek Book ever, including Imzadi).

I think the last three films were unmitigated Shite in every respect, but I've also grown up enough to realise that, frankly, the first three weren't really much better and, more importantly, no-one gives a ratass fuck for my opinion, especially some bloated turd swimming in the money bin. 

This is why I only prolapse once while watching Crystal Skull because, really, why bother ? 

But WUA is right in one sense - All that matters is the bank - and wrong in another - He geniunely thinks that the last three films had SOME hidden merit.

They really didn't.

[DraconianOne]

I think the last three films were unmitigated Shite in every respect, but I've also grown up enough to realise that, frankly, the first three weren't really much better and, more importantly, no-one gives a ratass fuck for my opinion, especially some bloated turd swimming in the money bin.
...
But WUA is right in one sense - All that matters is the bank - and wrong in another - He geniunely thinks that the last three films had SOME hidden merit.

It's glib, but I care and I still constantly get in these discussions because it's about film. The fact that I've been a fan of Star Wars fan since '78 makes it difficult to discuss Star Wars without being accused of being a rabid fanboy (even though I largely don't give a shit about the EU or what's canon or whatever although, yeah, I can and have had those discussions too even if I do try to avoid them these days)  but I'll do it about any film.  That thing about Boba Fett? Yeah, I genuinely am interested in why a minor character with two lines of dialogue and a couple of minutes of screen time had such a big cultural impact and the last time I had a similar conversation was down the pub with a bunch of filmmakers.

That's a lot of what I like about Plinkett's reviews - he's a filmmaker and amongst the geeky, fanboy "Why did Han shoot first?" criticism of the film is a lot of  useful critique of poor filmmaking and screenwriting.  But, it's about Star Wars - therefore whatever he says is obviously a rant by a butthurt, childhood raped fanboi.

WUA's constant refrain about box office and reviews is too simplistic despite whatever verbal haranguing he brings to bear on whoever says otherwise.  I'm having that debate elsewhere and I'm not going to fag up this thread even more by having it here again.

[WindupAtheist]

So, it's OK for you to nitpick me but I can't nitpick Lucas.  Got it.  Get off your hipster high-horse and watch the clip I said, it's all over their faces when they see the final cut.

Or maybe it's the internet and we can all nitpick the shit out of each other. Wash out your sandy little vagoo, because the only thing worse than you staring at George Lucas watching his face and trying to read his mind would be BOTH of us staring at his face and ARGUING over what's in his mind.

There's a very stark, obvious, and ironclad difference between a butthurt anti-fanboy and someone who just plain thought those new Star Wars movies sucked. The BHAF community wants to know that Lucas feels bad for disappointing them, sees him walking cheerfully off into the sunset wearing his moneyhat, and it pisses them off. Meanwhile, rational people who just hated the prequels have probably also hated a dozen different otherwise successful movies over the last few years and don't especially give a shit about those crappy Star Wars ones in particular, or what any of their producers think.

Ironwood is a regular person who thought those new Star Wars movies were shit. Schild is a regular person (well sort of) who thought they were shit. Good for them, I guess. I don't think either of them has ever attempted to advance their opinion with insights gleaned from reading first-draft screenplays, or essays upon how they would have rewritten them, or lengthy discussions about the nature of the force, or any of this other "ARRGH! GET BACK HERE LUCAS THIS ISN'T OVERRR!" bullshit.

At least I'm a fanboy of things I actually like.

[Arthur_Parker]

Is there a link to the facial thing?  I couldn't find it.

[Ingmar]

The only reason anyone remembers IG-88's name is it was printed right there on the package his action figure came in. And I say this as a reformed Star Wars fanboy.

[Tannhauser]

By all means WuA, keep making strawmen and knocking them down, it's your specialty.

I think the 'facial thing' was on Plinkett's Phantom Menace review.  

[Sir T]

Yup, it was on his phantom menace review.

But hey, most films don't suck so badly as to cause one of the leads to quit staring in movies for a while out of disgust (Liam Neeson). And you should read comments on Christoher lee's autobiography (Lord of Misrule) on working with George Lucas. Most intriguing.

But hey lets focus on the one halfway decent and profound line in 7 hours of film to prove the whole thing was decent. 

[Ratman_tf]

I think the last three films were unmitigated Shite in every respect, but I've also grown up enough to realise that, frankly, the first three weren't really much better and, more importantly, no-one gives a ratass fuck for my opinion, especially some bloated turd swimming in the money bin. 

I think SW was really great for what it was. A pulp space opera adventure with a bit of a fairy tale morality to it. After the divorce, Lucas lost his only really powerful No woman, and the movies started going down the tubes. Yeah, Lucas doesn't have to care what Johnny Neckbeard thinks, and the big loss is that he doesn't have to care about moviemaking as a job either. It's become his hobby, and he's not really that good at it anymore, if he ever was.

[Sir T]

I think the last three films were unmitigated Shite in every respect, but I've also grown up enough to realise that, frankly, the first three weren't really much better and, more importantly, no-one gives a ratass fuck for my opinion, especially some bloated turd swimming in the money bin.  

I think the first star wars was a pretty good pulp science fiction movie, and the Empire Strikes Back still stands on its own as a terrific film, dark, spiritual and emotional, and the good guys got their ass kicked hard. Of course Empire was the one that Lucas had the least to do with. The rot pretty much started with Return of the Jedi though.

Thinking about it, the moment of the 3rd Plinket review was when he showed a bunch of people and Lucas walks in and announces that he has just written the first draft of Revenge of the Sith and everyone in the room immediately bursts into a round of applause. I mean hello?

[LK]

"They're already building sets... I better start writing the script!"

It's very difficult for me to put into words all the things wrong *at the very core* with Star Wars (prequels), and Red Letter attacks the prequels on many, many different angles, from story to craftsmanship to nit-picking and respect for the material.

I just read this essay about "Art vs. Trash" movies (Or, as  I like to call it, Art vs. Entertainment) that might give an idea of what Lucas represents: the very antithesis of an artist.

Trash doesn’t belong to the academic tradition, and that’s part of the fun of trash—that you know (or should know) that you don’t have to take it seriously, that it was never meant to be anymore than frivolous and trifling and entertaining.

(The article is pretty brutal with regards to the masses and "fans.")

Copolla had something nice to say that could be applied to Lucas and Star Wars.

The cinema language happened by experimentation – by people not knowing what to do. But unfortunately, after 15-20 years, it became a commercial industry. People made money in the cinema, and then they began to say to the pioneers, “Don’t experiment. We want to make money. We don’t want to take chances.”

An essential element of any art is risk. If you don’t take a risk then how are you going to make something really beautiful, that hasn’t been seen before? I always like to say that cinema without risk is like having no sex and expecting to have a baby. You have to take a risk.

...

You must never be the kind of director, I think maybe I was when I was 18, “No, no, no, I know best.” That’s not good. You can make the decision that you feel is best, but listen to everyone, because cinema is collaboration. I always like to say that collaboration is the sex of art because you take from everyone you’re working with.

...

When you make a movie, always try to discover what the theme of the movie is in one or two words.

Red Letter applied a critic's and film artist's view on Star Wars, amongst other things. The original trilogy held up a bit better, but the prequels were soulless entertainment meant to cash in.

[angry.bob]

The only reason anyone remembers IG-88's name is it was printed right there on the package his action figure came in. And I say this as a reformed Star Wars fanboy.

This coupled with my grandfather making a big stink about wanting to know why my toy carried a Nazi machine gun.

[DraconianOne]

I just read this essay about "Art vs. Trash" movies (Or, as  I like to call it, Art vs. Entertainment) that might give an idea of what Lucas represents: the very antithesis of an artist.

Thanks for that link, Lorekeep. Another article on that site is "Why are movies so bad?" which is vaguely relevant as it was written in 1980 and suggests that Empire Strikes Back was one of the few films worth seeing that year.  The rest of it is a rant about how the maxim "All that matters is the bank" is dragging movies down.  It's a 30 year old article and it's never been more true than it is today.

[LK]

I wish the material was a little easier to read from a formatting perspective. I'll check that article out.

[Merusk]

I just read this essay about "Art vs. Trash" movies (Or, as  I like to call it, Art vs. Entertainment) that might give an idea of what Lucas represents: the very antithesis of an artist.

Thanks for that link, Lorekeep. Another article on that site is "Why are movies so bad?" which is vaguely relevant as it was written in 1980 and suggests that Empire Strikes Back was one of the few films worth seeing that year.  The rest of it is a rant about how the maxim "All that matters is the bank" is dragging movies down.  It's a 30 year old article and it's never been more true than it is today.

Or, perhaps, it's that tastes change over time combined with the movies being complained about aren't aimed at you or the original author.   There's always the segment who says "Everything today is crap, it used to be better back when!"

[Arthur_Parker]

I think the 'facial thing' was on Plinkett's Phantom Menace review.  

Yeah found it thanks, meh, I agree with WUA on that point.

Watching all three of those reviews, I just feel really sorry for Ewan McGregor, he signs up to be Obi-Wan Kenobi and then gets held captive in a blue room for weeks on end.

[Ironwood]

Actually, I always felt sorry for Brian Blessed.

"Hi, Brian, can you do Vultan, except, you know, retarded ?  Give it a go."

[Cyrrex]

I think the 'facial thing' was on Plinkett's Phantom Menace review.  

Yeah found it thanks, meh, I agree with WUA on that point.

Watching all three of those reviews, I just feel really sorry for Ewan McGregor, he signs up to be Obi-Wan Kenobi and then gets held captive in a blue room for weeks on end.

I don't feel sorry for Ewan.  I thought he stood out as a shining beacon amidst very sub-standard performances.  He rose above the shittiness around him and made Obi-Wan completely awesome as far as I am concerned. 

And somehow, I don't get the feeling it type-casted him.

[Samwise]

Finally watched the latest Plinkett review.  Awesome as always IMO, but it's a little sad that the saga is over.

[LK]

Is your avatar the look of dread on Lucas's face after reviewing his creation? 

All the actors did the best with the material given to them, and have all gone on to great careers afterwards. Ewan and Natalie Portman are both intact (Ewan had a career before going in, Natalie did Black Swan...), Hayden's just starting out but moving on from it better than Hamill did, and Sam Jackson is still Sam Jackson. Liam's still doing movies that are high-brow entertainment where he collects a paycheck because there's nothing else out there to stretch his acting muscles and he needs to work. (A-Team, Clash of the Titans, Taken, Unknown).

As far as actor reputation, everyone walked out of this unscathed, collected their paycheck, and probably learned a lesson never to work for George Lucas ever again if they cared at all about their art.

[Samwise]

Is your avatar the look of dread on Lucas's face after reviewing his creation? 

I'll be honest.  I was hoping I could entice WUA into doing some Lie to Me expression analysis shit and then putting the results on a chart of some sort.

[Ingmar]

Actually, I always felt sorry for Brian Blessed.

"Hi, Brian, can you do Vultan, except, you know, retarded ?  Give it a go."

I'm sure Brian laughed his way to the bank for some easy voiceover work, he seems willing to do just about anything.

[Rishathra]

My favorite part of those behind the scenes videos isn't George Lucas, but the forced smiles and awkward poses of just about every one around him every time he makes one of his anouncements.

It kind of reminds me of this guy.

[Prospero]

Finally watched the latest Plinkett review.  Awesome as always IMO, but it's a little sad that the saga is over.

There will always be more movies for Plinkett to rake over the coals. I'd love to watch a series about M Night Shamwow's movies.

[WindupAtheist]

I'll be honest.  I was hoping I could entice WUA into doing some Lie to Me expression analysis shit and then putting the results on a chart of some sort.

The only vibe I really got from the office footage with Lucas was that of a bunch of grunts in an office awkwardly trying to look excited about work because the boss was there with a camera. The girl in charge of budget dispensation toward fake hair for wookiee costumes just wants to finish up so she can go flirt with the ILM guy down the hall modeling bantha nostrils, but hey here's Lucas and they're shooting some kind of behind the scenes thing so try to look really enthusiastic.

She's not sitting there thinking "Oh god what have we done, the internet will be so disappointed! I hate myself! But I hope people will see our demoralized faces and be comforted by the fact that we're not thinking we got away with it!"

Oh, also, the idea that Liam Neeson didn't turn up as a ghost in the later movies because he was just so horrified at the cinematic fast-food shittiness of Phantom Menace strikes me as more BHAF fantasizing. He probably thought George Lucas was an asshole and wasn't offered enough money to put up with him. I'll buy that. But I just don't see him going "This is a travesty! I am an artist! TIME TO DO MASTERPIECES LIKE CLASH OF THE TITANS AND A-TEAM!"

[LK]

Oh, also, the idea that Liam Neeson didn't turn up as a ghost in the later movies because he was just so horrified at the cinematic fast-food shittiness of Phantom Menace strikes me as more BHAF fantasizing.

I didn't say that. o_o; In fact, nobody did.