Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[Hawkbit]

I suspect that's one of the reasons behind the 'cataclysm'.  A general redesign of leveling should even that out. 

[jakonovski]

I am disappointed that I spent money on this game and I liked Vanguard.

Vanguard was like North Korea, even its towns bore a striking resemblance to Pyongyang.

[Jerrith]

The other day I had to move the english .pak files around so I could launch the game in Korean to get a chat option with a NPC to show up (lvl 30 asmo daevaonian armor exchange). Nothing quite as fun as navigating 3 different menus of Korean NPC text in a game that was promoted as "westernized".

That's interesting.  Do they just not display dialog options that haven't been localized, or what?  I'm trying to earn that armor set as well (32/22/22/13/-) though on the Elyos side, and wonder if I'll run into a similar problem.

[Threash]

The other day I had to move the english .pak files around so I could launch the game in Korean to get a chat option with a NPC to show up (lvl 30 asmo daevaonian armor exchange). Nothing quite as fun as navigating 3 different menus of Korean NPC text in a game that was promoted as "westernized".

That's interesting.  Do they just not display dialog options that haven't been localized, or what?  I'm trying to earn that armor set as well (32/22/22/13/-) though on the Elyos side, and wonder if I'll run into a similar problem.

I didn't have a problem getting my first piece on Elyos side.

[gryeyes]

There is more lore and plot development in WoW leading up to Vancleef than ive seen in the entirety of Aion.

I played WoW for four years. I couldn't tell you the first thing about Vancleef.

Thanks for sharing.

[Zane0]

my point is simply that 'quest lore' only goes so far -- presuming it goes anywhere at all

[Lightstalker]

On WoW Quest Superiority:

Did you read the book you were asked to deliver to the lumberjack, or did you just deliver it because it was a fed-ex quest and you already understand how fed-ex quests work (or bread crumb quest)? 
Did you read the lumberjack's diary before delivering it to him, or just accept the delivery quest and move on?
Did you miss how a minor character like this lumberjack and his to-be wife Dryad in the corner had a story available if you were willing to look for it?

Or then the language potion quest line where the Squirrel-boy falls in love with the Kobold?  Is it inferior because it doesn't involve a heroic challenge?  That's likely a cultural difference as much as any difference in the quality or quantity of content. No pop culture references (that we recognize) and no emphasis on heroic challenges at low levels. Novel concept, you are a grunt and you do grunt-worthy things.  Hey new guy, go find some shit I lost in the woods.  WoW has you doing heroic things at low level and tedius trivial tasks at max level (go pick some flowers, give them to a lady in the lake and bring me a sword so we can refill the armory), and somehow that's the epitome of quest design?

This suggests the quests in Aion and the quests in WoW are the same kind, perhaps that the difference is in degree (or that Blizzard is more in your face and story-on-rails than admitted to here).  There are perhaps more quests at a deep level of engagement in WoW because WoW is a game about questing as Aion is a game about PvP (or looking pretty at the bank or falling to your death or whatnot).  Both games had the other aspect at release, but it wasn't the focus (and rightly so given their objectives and audience).  WoW's open world PvP was pretty half assed, and still is, I'm not seeing the point here of the complaint on Aion questing not being WoW qesting.  A game that wasn't trying to revolutionize questing didn't!  Holy shit!   



The games are different, they have different strengths and weaknesses.  Even in quest Aion has improved some parts beyond what WoW released with or offers today, though it doesn't match up well point for point because Aion's target market doesn't care as much about WoW style quests.  Why complain that a game wasn't built for you when... it wasn't built for you?

Right non-exhaustive
The locate feature for quest items and areas of interest is pretty awesome and built in.  It even has an in game guide to follow around in addition to the area map indicator.
Direction text itself is far more accurate than the WoW counterparts.
Character customization is really awesome, characters look pretty or cute which suggests potential for wide and lasting appeal.
Your Character is inserted into cut scenes, not just a generic hero image.
The world is very pretty.
The world lets you explore (and die) how you see fit - I've died during the ascention quest and glided from one subzone over another.
Aion allows you to come to understand the language of your enemy, through a quest line, breaking a barrier that is unbreakable in WoW.
Auction House success puts the item directly into your inventory - no screwing around with fetching the mail.
Sell all misc is a handy vendor option.
Combat chains automatically put the next ability on the same button - so you can button mash without filling the screen with user controls out of the box.
Everyone can gather everything.

Wrong non-exhaustive
They've brought the capital falling death city into the future, which isn't great.
Characters are cute causing players to identify with their avatar, a problem when they get WTFPWNED in PvP.
The 10 levels in and you make a permanent decision about the rest of your character's life with limited information thing is not so great.  Shadowbane had that same decision, but in Shadowbane you didn't feel like you lost any time getting to the decision (one can lose hours just in character customization in Aion).
Managing the pop-up UI elements is cumbersome. 
Managing chat and inter-player interactions is cumbersome.
Managing branched combat chains is not so clear.
Gathering requires an empty inventory slot - always.
Gathering breaks if you attempt it too soon after finishing the first attempt.
They stopped at sell all misc, rather than going all the way to Hellgate's salvage in the field option.


Part of the fun in these games is to see how they built it, to evaluate both their design intent and execution.  I'm therefore not fussed that the daddy of WoW's VanCleef quest could kick the ass of the daddy of Aion's Speak Kobold quest, and free to see ways where speaking Kobold might be a deeper experience than just paving a bunch of them on your merry way through the deadmines.

You no take candle, indeed.

[Rasix]

tl:dr

[UnSub]

I really do love the end of the new MMO honeymoon period here at f13.

[Sheepherder]

1. The locate feature for quest items and areas of interest is pretty awesome and built in.  It even has an in game guide to follow around in addition to the area map indicator.

2. Aion allows you to come to understand the language of your enemy, through a quest line, breaking a barrier that is unbreakable in WoW.
Auction House success puts the item directly into your inventory - no screwing around with fetching the mail.

3. Combat chains automatically put the next ability on the same button - so you can button mash without filling the screen with user controls out of the box.  Managing branched combat chains is not so clear.

4. The 10 levels in and you make a permanent decision about the rest of your character's life with limited information thing is not so great.  Shadowbane had that same decision, but in Shadowbane you didn't feel like you lost any time getting to the decision (one can lose hours just in character customization in Aion).

1. Good idea, WoW get's it's much-delayed version in patch 3.3 if they ever get to a point where it doesn't break hilariously under testing.  This is effectively a requirement for all MMO's currently being developed for.

2.

Crunkster yells: [Orcish] N I G GA I W IN U L OS E
Crunkster yells: [Orcish] N I G GA I W IN U L OS E
Crunkster yells: [Orcish] N I G GA I W IN U L OS E
Crunkster yells: [Orcish] N I G GA I W IN U L OS E
Crunkster yells: [Orcish] KEK

Never gets old.

3. You can do this in WoW with macros, it's not significantly better than just having more buttons in most cases.

4. Lets party like it's 1999.

[DLRiley]

I really do love the end of the new MMO honeymoon period here at f13.

It ended in beta when i realized that I would actually have to pay to play this...

[Falconeer]

Some still enjoy the game. Because you know, uhm... PvP. Who the fuck cares about the grind when I can band around fighting for artifacts, fortresses and enemy scalps 24/7?

[tmp]

3. You can do this in WoW with macros, it's not significantly better than just having more buttons in most cases.

Yes, it is. Consider frequent complaint about EQ2 combat; having more buttons just for the sake of having more buttons turns people off.

[gryeyes]

Some still enjoy the game. Because you know, uhm... PvP. Who the fuck cares about the grind when I can band around fighting for artifacts, fortresses and enemy scalps 24/7?

Rerolled a sorc and theres no looking back. I can't believe how much easier a sorc is to level compared to an assassin. Does anyone know if they altered drop rates at all? Ive farmed the BC "bosses" for loot maybe a dozen times with my assassin, earlier with my sorc we got no fewer than 6 blues (I had never seen a single blue drop previously) and about 20 or so "named" greens. A boss did not die without dropping at least several greens, which based on prior experience does not seem possible with the same loot tables.

[Sheepherder]

Yes, it is. Consider frequent complaint about EQ2 combat; having more buttons just for the sake of having more buttons turns people off.

Except this isn't the same argument.

The amount of buttons are the same regardless, but binding them to different keys (or sequences/combos even, if the objective is a small UI footprint) is desirable rather than automating the next one to appear in the sequence, because otherwise you run into massive problems when the player wants to do something that his macro set or attack sequence doesn't support.  This isn't a problem if the rotation is inflexible, but then there's no point in there being a rotation really if any decision making is just going to get scripted out.

[tmp]

Except this isn't the same argument.

Hmm i guess it'll just depend on what exactly the argument was. I thought it's something like "having your skills executed through fewer (individual) keys isn't significantly better than just having more buttons in most cases". Which i just can't really agree with as yes, it is significantly better in my eyes... if just because i only have ten fingers and only so many buttons i can access comfortably.

[Shatter]

Some still enjoy the game. Because you know, uhm... PvP. Who the fuck cares about the grind when I can band around fighting for artifacts, fortresses and enemy scalps 24/7?

Im having fun dishing out the butt whoopings on my 36 cleric.  I love getting jumped by said class only to live through their initial burst, heal up then proceed to chase them and kill them slowly as they run trying to save their life by trying to get to a safe point lol.  I have yet to die to one class of similar level, only time I have died is when a class thats 8+ levels attacks me and I put up a fight rather then run. 

[Sheepherder]

Hmm i guess it'll just depend on what exactly the argument was. I thought it's something like "having your skills executed through fewer (individual) keys isn't significantly better than just having more buttons in most cases". Which i just can't really agree with as yes, it is significantly better in my eyes... if just because i only have ten fingers and only so many buttons i can access comfortably.

Have you ever played a one button Warlock in WoW?  And I use the term "played" loosely.

[Nebu]

I love getting jumped by said class only to live through their initial burst, heal up then proceed to chase them and kill them slowly as they run trying to save their life by trying to get to a safe point lol.  

Sounds like awesome pvp action!  You either get ganked by superior numbers or chase players across a map.  Fun!  

[Falconeer]

If not Shatter's, or mine, take Xanthippe's word. The game offer lots of fun in massive PvP, as expected and hoped. I understand who can't stomach the grind to get there or consider level 50 the minimum requirement to PvP (wrong), but if you like dikus with open world faction based massive PvP then Aion starts delivering at level 25. Note: Active guild required.

Am I saying it's a great game? Are you supposed to like it? No and no.
The thing with Aion is that it cheats generic MMORPG players into buying the box thanks to the first 20 polished and colourful PvE levels, but this is a PvP game to the core and there's no way it'll ever retain big numbers in the West, especially because it's absolutely user un-friendly to PvP beginners and casuals. I find absolutely reasonable that so many are quitting in disgust. Numbers were doped since the beginning.

[Shatter]

I love getting jumped by said class only to live through their initial burst, heal up then proceed to chase them and kill them slowly as they run trying to save their life by trying to get to a safe point lol.  

Sounds like awesome pvp action!  You either get ganked by superior numbers or chase players across a map.  Fun!  

Depends, would you prefer PvP to last 3 seconds or have PvP where everyone has a chance?  Not everyone runs away, but I have found most do that attack me and when they realize their cycle of burst damage didnt finish me off and I just healed myself to full usually run away.  True that a good chunk of my PvP time is spent chasing people though where being a cleric again is nice since we have a root.  I couldnt imagine playing a class that cant pull, snare or root in this game because of runners.  Most people's reaction after being jumped is to run/fly to safety.  

[caladein]

Playing a Bishop in L2 was basically the same thing (around launch at least).  It wasn't terribly fun because either I needed to waste a year trying to actually kill someone or I would just heal-tank until someone got reinforced.  I never felt as though I actually "won".

[Nebu]

Most people's reaction after being jumped is to run/fly to safety.  

That's my point.  This is a serious design flaw, especially in a game that encourages pvp. 

The game sounds like an update of DAoC with Asian-inspired graphics and slightly better PvE.  DAoC was a great game but required an active group to really get the most from.  I could only tolerate it the last year because I could get to the endgame in a day or two if I got bored with a class.  Aion seems a bit to harsh on rerolls to allow for a wide variety of gameplay options. When that changes, I may vary well give it a try. 

[ghost]

Sounds like awesome pvp action!  You either get ganked by superior numbers or chase players across a map.  Fun!  

Until someone can fix these inherent problems with PvP all PvP based games will fail.  Solo friendly PvP is needed.  It will be interesting to see if this is even possible, in the long run.  WOW has come the closest so far, to my eye.

[Shatter]

Did I mention the people who just close their wings and fall to their death on purpose?

[Threash]

Did I mention the people who just close their wings and fall to their death on purpose?

Closing your wings is a great escape tool, just don't fall to your death.  You CAN drop out of sight and make your escape though, if you are not getting credit for the kill then they got away.

[DLRiley]

Most people's reaction after being jumped is to run/fly to safety.  

That's my point.  This is a serious design flaw, especially in a game that encourages pvp. 

The game sounds like an update of DAoC with Asian-inspired graphics and slightly better PvE.  DAoC was a great game but required an active group to really get the most from.  I could only tolerate it the last year because I could get to the endgame in a day or two if I got bored with a class.  Aion seems a bit to harsh on rerolls to allow for a wide variety of gameplay options. When that changes, I may vary well give it a try. 

In the wild wild west of open world pvp, if your not the fastest shot at that moment in time why stick around to get pistol whipped? The idea of an active group being necessary to have fun in a pvp game is so draconian that only in mmo's is it truly tolerated and by tolerate I mean slow spiral of death. Is it me or is the idea of the healing class killing people is going to enviable call for a massive nerfs on said healer class.

[tmp]

Have you ever played a one button Warlock in WoW?  And I use the term "played" loosely.

Would this experience improve by having to press 1 2 3 4 5 instead to achieve the same thing..? (considering most of the time spent by playing other classes boils down to similar "skill roatation" and how people actually script these things to single button press, would have to say that seems like a "no")

[Nebu]

Would this experience improve by having to press 1 2 3 4 5 instead to achieve the same thing..? (considering most of the time spent by playing other classes boils down to similar "skill roatation" and how people actually script these things to single button press, would have to say that seems like a "no")

People playing MMO's often confuse "I am a more skilled player than you" with "I have better macros/gear/interface tools than you".

[tmp]

Yup, though if the game is made in a way where cyclic, mechanical repetitions of always the same key presses is "for the win" then i'm not sure if the players can be blamed for taking advantage of that.

[Gunzwei]

The other day I had to move the english .pak files around so I could launch the game in Korean to get a chat option with a NPC to show up (lvl 30 asmo daevaonian armor exchange). Nothing quite as fun as navigating 3 different menus of Korean NPC text in a game that was promoted as "westernized".

That's interesting.  Do they just not display dialog options that haven't been localized, or what?  I'm trying to earn that armor set as well (32/22/22/13/-) though on the Elyos side, and wonder if I'll run into a similar problem.

Dialog options that haven't been localized will not display and instead the NPC will just use their standard "good-bye" reply. The Eylos version of the exchange NPC from what I've read has had their dialog localized so only Asmos have to do the work around. I assume there is probably more examples of this with quest NPCs scattered around the game world.

[ghost]

I'm not sure I will be able to play Aion effectively until I get my official Aion gaming mouse.

http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100000363

[Zetor]

Have you ever played a one button Warlock in WoW?  And I use the term "played" loosely.

Would this experience improve by having to press 1 2 3 4 5 instead to achieve the same thing..? (considering most of the time spent by playing other classes boils down to similar "skill roatation" and how people actually script these things to single button press, would have to say that seems like a "no")

IMO the key thing is to not have a set rotation at all. WOW pve currently has no rotations for any class (DKs and rogues MAY be exceptions), you just use your abilities in a priority list (current destruction warlock: does the mob have a curse of element type debuff? if not, cast it; does the mob have immolate? if not, cast it; is conflagrate CD up? if yes, cast it; etc etc). 'Skill' at that point refers to using the abilities in correct priority order, using situational abilities [interrupts, stuns, teleports] correctly to recover from a bad situation, keeping advantageous debuffs on the mob, gauging when it's better to AOE instead of single target, and reacting to procs quickly enough to maximize benefit from them.

Of course, a priority list would be just as easy to automate as a rotation, but at least it's a bit more varied and gives the illusion of being more reactive. In the end, it's still buttonmashing... :p

[Threash]

I don't have a set rotation at all on my assassin.  A lot of my abilities are reactive, some require "combo point" building from using mostly low damage abilities, some are pure damage dealing, i have a couple "resist the next spell in the next 5 seconds" type buffs for pvp that depend on what the other person is doing, several low duration or next attack damage buffs.  I am actually running out easily accessible hotkey slots because almost every ability i have has a use and gets used at some point, and there's a shit ton of them.

[Nebu]

I am actually running out easily accessible hotkey slots because almost every ability i have has a use and gets used at some point, and there's a shit ton of them.

Yet none of your ability to use your tools well will save you from the many gear/level/class imbalances that you're going to encounter.  This is what makes me sad about MMO pvp games.