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Author Topic: Warhammer completed  (Read 35248 times)
Lantyssa
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Reply #140 on: April 13, 2009, 03:30:01 PM

Being the bottom sucks no matter how many sides there are.  One realm might get to alternate between good and bad, and the best realm might still wind up losing if the other two join forces.

The five realms in MPBT3025 actually worked really well since the factions were in a big circle and it was easy for the smaller Houses to gain back lost territory when the others were fighting amongst themselves.  There was also a lot of realm loyalty.  Affiliation really seemed to matter on a personal level.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Segoris
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Reply #141 on: April 13, 2009, 06:08:13 PM

Relics were described as a '20%' bonus but to this day I don't know where that number came from. The actual impact was much more significant than that, having 3 caster relics basically meant your casters were capping damage on just about every cast.

I don't really agree with it being "more significant" then advertised, and thought they did the 20% correctly (almost perfectly from what I remember, and I used to be someone who watched my damage logs since I was always changing specs....those stones were damn expensive at times ><). The only acception that made the relics seem to have a larger affect then advertised was when you had 3 power relics (for example) and were hitting someone for 1200 with them while being hit for 1000, and the person you were hitting now has them and is hitting you for 1200 and you're hitting them for 1000 now. That 400 point shift definitely hurt and would be more then a 20% difference, only due to your loss of the 20%

Quote
I do prefer I think multiple sides to just 2, but Fordel is right, with multiple sides if you're on the bottom it *really* sucks, especially with no population controls. One of the last relic defenses I was on in DAOC before I left, the #2 realm had more people in our frontier than our entire side had logged on at all at any level. Basically a PUG raid came along and retook a relic that had taken us multiple days of planning and organization just to get enough people together to try for it. And there were other realms out on other servers that were in even worse shape than us.

That is exactly why it would have worked in WAR, they do have population caps that actually worked (as people will rediscover if WAR ever stops sucking ass enough to regain a good number of people). If they raised that max number for each realm, threw a third realm on a server, and had opened with less servers I still think that would have been a great move. No, it wouldn't have been a perfect solution for one realm being too low on numbers, but it would have been great from keeping any realm from having far too many people. Odd to say since in this case that doesn't automatically equal the same thing, but they are still closely related.
Fordel
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Reply #142 on: April 13, 2009, 07:38:22 PM

The power relics had some funky interaction with casting bonuses, way more then 20%. FinTree really slowed down that afternoon we didn't have all 3  Ohhhhh, I see.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Segoris
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Reply #143 on: April 13, 2009, 10:32:42 PM

The power relics had some funky interaction with casting bonuses, way more then 20%. FinTree really slowed down that afternoon we didn't have all 3  Ohhhhh, I see.

Yeah, 3-5 casters losing their 20% bonus does have a more noticeable affect at fins compared to 1, and now a rotating star!  Spinning star
Triforcer
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Reply #144 on: April 13, 2009, 11:45:44 PM

Relics were described as a '20%' bonus but to this day I don't know where that number came from. The actual impact was much more significant than that, having 3 caster relics basically meant your casters were capping damage on just about every cast.

I do prefer I think multiple sides to just 2, but Fordel is right, with multiple sides if you're on the bottom it *really* sucks, especially with no population controls. One of the last relic defenses I was on in DAOC before I left, the #2 realm had more people in our frontier than our entire side had logged on at all at any level. Basically a PUG raid came along and retook a relic that had taken us multiple days of planning and organization just to get enough people together to try for it. And there were other realms out on other servers that were in even worse shape than us.

This is why only FFA PvP works.  Infinite sides of 1 each!  awesome, for real

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Ingmar
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Reply #145 on: April 14, 2009, 01:28:48 AM

The power relics had some funky interaction with casting bonuses, way more then 20%. FinTree really slowed down that afternoon we didn't have all 3  Ohhhhh, I see.

Yeah, 3-5 casters losing their 20% bonus does have a more noticeable affect at fins compared to 1, and now a rotating star!  Spinning star

No, it really was more than just a 20% boost to damage. The mechanics of it were very weird, it worked more like an acuity stat buff/+skills type thing or whatever than just a flat muliplier on damage. The end result was that even partially specced baseline nukes and such would start hitting their damage caps. A lot of testing on it was done at the time - I don't remember the exact details but I'm not speaking from some sort of anecdotal experience where I got nuked to death and QQed on a forum.  tongue

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Fordel
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Reply #146 on: April 14, 2009, 03:45:17 AM

Really, he wanted them for his AE Hammerz attack on his Thane.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
IainC
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Reply #147 on: April 14, 2009, 04:00:43 AM

No, it really was more than just a 20% boost to damage. The mechanics of it were very weird, it worked more like an acuity stat buff/+skills type thing or whatever than just a flat muliplier on damage. The end result was that even partially specced baseline nukes and such would start hitting their damage caps. A lot of testing on it was done at the time - I don't remember the exact details but I'm not speaking from some sort of anecdotal experience where I got nuked to death and QQed on a forum.  tongue

As I recall (and it's been a while so my memory could be faulty), the relic bonus acted as an acuity buff (except it stacked with other acuity bonuses and wasn't subject to the normal stat cap) because if it was a straight 1.2 multiplier on all damage then spells would suddenly start hitting for more than their cap which would be bad.

Because of the way variance worked, it was quite easy to hit cap even on partially trained spec lines (especially with ToA boni), the relic bonus practically guaranteed that you'd be hitting at or close to cap every time if you were level 50 and your spec level was at least 35.

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Segoris
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Reply #148 on: April 14, 2009, 08:18:01 AM

Weird, I could have sworn it was just about 20% from what I remember. Oh well


And wow, I forgot the last time I heard a Thane joke. Now, I'll await a Smite Cleric joke to make this thread complete!   why so serious?
Nevermore
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Reply #149 on: April 14, 2009, 08:56:43 AM

Really, he wanted them for his AE Hammerz attack on his Thane.

The worst nerf of all time in DAoC was when they changed the graphics on that spell from one hammer on each target to just one hammer period.  Heartbreak

Over and out.
Modern Angel
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Reply #150 on: April 14, 2009, 09:17:01 AM

God, my favorite part of these threads is that they always turn into how boss DAoC was. And it makes me want to play DAoC because I mostly missed out on it. Instead I got to play WAR.
Nebu
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Reply #151 on: April 14, 2009, 10:12:28 AM

God, my favorite part of these threads is that they always turn into how boss DAoC was. And it makes me want to play DAoC because I mostly missed out on it. Instead I got to play WAR.

It's proof that nostalgia is better than actual gameplay experience.  DAoC was fun under the right conditions.  It certainly wasn't all that. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Khaldun
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Reply #152 on: April 14, 2009, 11:28:58 AM

Srsly. DAOC had a lot of fun struggling to get out from underneath unfun of various kinds. Then Mythic decided to end that struggle and just crown unfun the official winner.
Ratman_tf
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Reply #153 on: April 14, 2009, 11:58:01 AM

For those of us who despised EQ, DAOC was our first 3-D Diku. It was for me. I have no desire to go back, though. I have no starry eyed nostaligia, and there are better games out there now. Or worse ones that are at least more interesting.



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Soulflame
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Reply #154 on: April 14, 2009, 11:59:17 AM

FFA PvP has never resulted in "infinity sides of 1 person".  It results in "optimal sized zerg vs hapless opponents".

That statement is equally true for PvP games that have defined sides.
Sjofn
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Reply #155 on: April 14, 2009, 01:25:58 PM

Relics were described as a '20%' bonus but to this day I don't know where that number came from. The actual impact was much more significant than that, having 3 caster relics basically meant your casters were capping damage on just about every cast.

I do prefer I think multiple sides to just 2, but Fordel is right, with multiple sides if you're on the bottom it *really* sucks, especially with no population controls. One of the last relic defenses I was on in DAOC before I left, the #2 realm had more people in our frontier than our entire side had logged on at all at any level. Basically a PUG raid came along and retook a relic that had taken us multiple days of planning and organization just to get enough people together to try for it. And there were other realms out on other servers that were in even worse shape than us.

It was months before I actually quit, but after that faceroll of a relic raid took our relics, I lost interest in the game. What was the point of trying?

God Save the Horn Players
Fordel
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Reply #156 on: April 14, 2009, 05:10:43 PM

Maybe if Teske didn't cry wolf so many times!

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Delmania
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Reply #157 on: April 14, 2009, 07:16:08 PM

It's proof that nostalgia is better than actual gameplay experience.  DAoC was fun under the right conditions.  It certainly wasn't all that. 

Stunguard, stealth zergs, enchanter with stun+debuff+nuke+nuke+nuke, PBAoE, warlocks instangibbing people, smite clerics, heros with slam and then pulling a shield, pre nerf left axe, bainshees, animists at milegates, rogues in chain with red pets.

What else did I miss?

Bismallah
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Reply #158 on: April 14, 2009, 07:25:00 PM

Remember staying stealthed if you one shot killed someone? Oh that was fun. Scouts able to slam you from stealth and stand point blank and crit shot you at least 2-3 times before the stun wore off. Oh and you forgot Vamps in general. Dragonfang. Armor table changes mid way through the game. ToA.

Edit: I'd still take all DAOC's faults during its prime over WAR.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 07:30:55 PM by Bismallah »
Delmania
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Reply #159 on: April 14, 2009, 07:58:24 PM

Yes, how could I forget when scale armor, which has ovelapping plates designed to ward off slashing weapons suddenly became weak to slash?  All because friars could kill unbuffed heros.  I also remember how scouts could setup a crit while in stealth armor.  But yes, DAoC in general was a far more fun game than WAR was, but that may be because I was more naive back then. 

Delmania
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Reply #160 on: April 14, 2009, 08:02:24 PM

Then again, preToAm the game was good.  In classic DAoC, you could get your epic armor, a crafted weapon, and then go hit the Frontiers.  SI had Spellcrafting and Alc, but that made the gear even less important since everyone was essentially running around in the same gear.  Then ToA hit. 

Votan
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Reply #161 on: April 14, 2009, 10:48:54 PM

While DAOC had its flaws it was still more fun most of the time than not pre-toa.  WAR once the "new" goes away and it does fast, you have bad pve, wow scenarios, and completely garbage end game featuring pve farming in what was advertised as a rvr/pvp game.  Mythic learned nothing at all with what they did wrong with DAOC. 

They had a perfect example of how to lose 50% of your player base over 6 months with TOA, I guess they improved upon that losing more than 60% of its player base in WAR in a record 3 months from launch Facepalm
Ashamanchill
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Reply #162 on: April 15, 2009, 01:16:25 AM

Srsly. DAOC had a lot of fun struggling to get out from underneath unfun of various kinds. Then Mythic decided to end that struggle and just crown unfun the official winner.
Awesome.  That's so going in the sig.

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Fordel
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Reply #163 on: April 15, 2009, 01:53:18 AM

My personal favorite, was that (at the time) Hib only special realm ability on enchanters, that boosted your resists up to like 98% for 30 seconds or whatever.


I want to know what the reaction was from the Spiritmaster that PBAE'd me for 9 (448 resisted) damage.  awesome, for real

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Delmania
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Reply #164 on: April 15, 2009, 06:55:05 AM

Mythic learned nothing at all with what they did wrong with DAOC. 

I'd disagree with that statement.  I think many of the design decisions in WAR can be tied back to many complaints with DAoC.  What they didn't learn was trying to be the big dog at launch is a failure.

Bismallah
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Reply #165 on: April 15, 2009, 07:25:01 AM

My personal favorite, was that (at the time) Hib only special realm ability on enchanters, that boosted your resists up to like 98% for 30 seconds or whatever.


I want to know what the reaction was from the Spiritmaster that PBAE'd me for 9 (448 resisted) damage.  awesome, for real

It was certainly not awesome for real, I can tell you that much. It was, shit shit fuck fuck /release
waffel
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Reply #166 on: April 15, 2009, 05:14:10 PM

Mythic tried to reinvent way too much from DAoC.
Tannhauser
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Reply #167 on: April 15, 2009, 07:02:15 PM

Hindsight is 20/20.  I distinctly remember forum warriors bitching that there were too many factions and 2 were better than 3.  I was one of them.

Fordel
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Reply #168 on: April 15, 2009, 09:48:36 PM

My personal favorite, was that (at the time) Hib only special realm ability on enchanters, that boosted your resists up to like 98% for 30 seconds or whatever.


I want to know what the reaction was from the Spiritmaster that PBAE'd me for 9 (448 resisted) damage.  awesome, for real

It was certainly not awesome for real, I can tell you that much. It was, shit shit fuck fuck /release


The most devastating effect wasn't even the damage reduction, it was the virtual CC immunity. Minute long mezzes lasting oh, 3 seconds.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Bismallah
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Reply #169 on: April 16, 2009, 05:25:20 AM

Yeah if you were Supp spec for the PBAE you had an awesome single target mez that was basically shit with that... so you run in, realize almost all your damage was resisted quick cast your single target mez and well, that was the end of that. Between the SM and my SB I learned the hard way not to fall in love with shit classes and play a multitude.
Fordel
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Reply #170 on: April 16, 2009, 09:13:52 AM

That talent was horribly overpowered and made anything and everything magical worthless. Literal "We-Win" button. Insult to injury was that it was on the class that could debuff it's own damage type for single target nuking AND have full blown PBAE shenanigans.


I played a Sword and Board hero for like, 4 years. None of that LargeWeapon shit for me!

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Nevermore
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Reply #171 on: April 16, 2009, 11:39:49 AM

You know which "We-Win*" button I loved?  The original Speed of Sound.

Ok, it was usually more of a "We-Don't-Lose" button.

Over and out.
Delmania
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Reply #172 on: April 16, 2009, 03:04:12 PM

You know which "We-Win*" button I loved?  The original Speed of Sound.

Ok, it was usually more of a "We-Don't-Lose" button.

There some other RA it was combined with that made Alb GG insane.  I don't remember what it was though.

Oh yeah, Reaver bombs were always my favorite.

EWSpider
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Reply #173 on: April 16, 2009, 03:25:42 PM

You know which "We-Win*" button I loved?  The original Speed of Sound.

Ok, it was usually more of a "We-Don't-Lose" button.

There some other RA it was combined with that made Alb GG insane.  I don't remember what it was though.

Oh yeah, Reaver bombs were always my favorite.

The original Bunker of Faith.

most often known as Drevik
Soulflame
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Reply #174 on: April 16, 2009, 03:41:40 PM

Yep.  Bunker of Faith + Speed of Sound.  From talks I had with people who ran gank groups during that era, they'd rotate clerics and minstrels so that it would be always available.

Don't forget about group purge though.  I used to hear much swearing and cursing about that as well.
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