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Author Topic: Warhammer completed  (Read 35910 times)
Kageru
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on: April 06, 2009, 08:34:50 AM


Looks like the single raid mob has been downed. Locking out the other faction in a PvP game is novel and in terms of a raid encounter I don't think Blizzard is quivering in their boots just yet. The thread I linked is pretty painful but the tank (Odz) for it gives a concise summary of the encounter;

Quote
The fight needs at least one full warlord-warded tank to MT the king at specific phases.

Phase 1-king alone in throne room til 80%
Phase 2-His mount crashes through the window and he mounts up and runs out.Main tank him with a full warlord tank til 50%[You need very strong max range dps unless the melee is fully warded.His mount keeps doing a 65-70 ft aoe that can one shot unwarded players for 20k]
Phase 3-He dismounts at 49%.You need to tank the bird and the king seperately with 2 tanks.Kill the bird-mount first and fast coz he does a deadly aoe.
Phase 4-Bird is dead.til 0% u MT the king.When he does his hammer-aoe-whirlwind u need to back the f*** up or u are a dead man.

phase 5- sovereign loot.

Apparently the reaction on the opposing side is mass whining and people announcing they are re-rolling or quitting. Sounds like a great PvP endgame in action. I'm also interested in where they go from here (other than the obvious of him respawning and being farmed) considering Karl Franz is one of the biggest bosses the lore has to offer.


Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #1 on: April 06, 2009, 09:18:54 AM

I'll be disappointed if the dropped loot isn't bugged in some way.
waylander
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Reply #2 on: April 06, 2009, 09:31:01 AM

King Encounter Video - Magus POV

Click here for LootZ!


Basically it was a bunch of work to get to a PVE encounter to down a raid level mob, and people had to acquire 4 sets of different ward gear to make the journey to survive it.

Yeah, Mythic has a problem with their entire end game.

We tried to tell them this in beta, but got threatened with the ban stick if we tried to have an intelligent counter discussion with Mythic Devs.

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Der Helm
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Reply #3 on: April 06, 2009, 09:37:17 AM

from that thread...
Quote
Grats to the ppl that looted sovereign gear and stayed up for more than 14 hours online!
swamp poop

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
UnSub
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Reply #4 on: April 06, 2009, 09:40:47 AM

Guess this means he doesn't want me to rejoin WAR anymore.

Nebu
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Reply #5 on: April 06, 2009, 10:00:38 AM

I'm going to bet that 13 of those 14h were spent doing PvE. 

Well, that killed WAR for me.  I did ToA once already and that was more than enough. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
ghost
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Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 11:29:47 AM

Yeah, this sounds just like a WOW raid.  Color me confused as to how this is supposed to be great PvP action.
Modern Angel
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Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 11:43:05 AM

That doesn't sound like a WoW raid at all. That makes it even worse than if it was a WoW raid in a PvP game.

WHAT THE FUCK WHY DID YOU FUCKING DO THIS T1 AND T2 ARE PERFECT YOU FUCKING IDIOTS
tazelbain
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Reply #8 on: April 06, 2009, 11:59:00 AM

To be fair, they always said the pve king raid was the goal of attacking a city.  There is no bait and switch to angry about.

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Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #9 on: April 06, 2009, 12:11:41 PM

Not one comment about willpower on the choppa set, or weapon skill on the zealot set? Oh lawldy, there's ARMOR PENETRATION on the zealot set, and weapon skill on the Squig Herder set.  awesome, for real


"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
kildorn
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Reply #10 on: April 06, 2009, 12:32:41 PM

The pve aprt of the city raids was bitched about but accepted in beta.

The ward shit? Yeah, that was pulled out of their asses without so much as a peep in the beta about it coming down the line, and it may as well be named after degrees of cockblocking.
Sky
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Reply #11 on: April 06, 2009, 12:57:29 PM

Quote
The fight needs at least one full warlord-warded tank to MT the king at specific phases.

Phase 1-king alone in throne room til 80%
Phase 2-His mount crashes through the window and he mounts up and runs out.Main tank him with a full warlord tank til 50%[You need very strong max range dps unless the melee is fully warded.His mount keeps doing a 65-70 ft aoe that can one shot unwarded players for 20k]
Phase 3-He dismounts at 49%.You need to tank the bird and the king seperately with 2 tanks.Kill the bird-mount first and fast coz he does a deadly aoe.
Phase 4-Bird is dead.til 0% u MT the king.When he does his hammer-aoe-whirlwind u need to back the f*** up or u are a dead man.

phase 5- sovereign loot.
This dude needs to rewrite something like the Song of Fire and Ice like that.

Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #12 on: April 06, 2009, 01:38:52 PM

Worse than a wow pve raid since it's just the one boss and yes, lawlz at the loot.

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Ingmar
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Reply #13 on: April 06, 2009, 02:14:55 PM

13-14 hours? That's no WoW raid, certainly not in the modern game.

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kildorn
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Reply #14 on: April 06, 2009, 02:18:20 PM

That's worse than a 1.0 WoW raid. But he was counting wipes, so whatever. Mythic: if you're trying to copy someone, copy the shit they learned from said mistakes, and don't copy the 1.0. You're trying to be 5 years behind the damned curve on purpose or something.
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #15 on: April 06, 2009, 03:19:49 PM

They've actually stated numerous times that they compare their game mechanics to wow at release.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Threash
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Reply #16 on: April 06, 2009, 03:24:57 PM


I'm also interested in where they go from here (other than the obvious of him respawning and being farmed) considering Karl Franz is one of the biggest bosses the lore has to offer.



Well theres supposed to be three capitals per side.

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Segoris
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Reply #17 on: April 06, 2009, 03:46:45 PM

Not one comment about willpower on the choppa set, or weapon skill on the zealot set? Oh lawldy, there's ARMOR PENETRATION on the zealot set, and weapon skill on the Squig Herder set.  awesome, for real



This just reminded me of the random stats/skills item/loot generator from DAoC, I wonder if they are reusing that to assign loot in WAR now. Although, it would probably get more stat distributions for each class more correct then Mythic has done with their item corrections back in beta and at release (although, my marauder's belt of blocking was pretty bad ass) Ohhhhh, I see.

kildorn
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Reply #18 on: April 06, 2009, 04:01:24 PM

They've actually stated numerous times that they compare their game mechanics to wow at release.

That's amazingly stupid. Why would you actively throw out all the functional lessons learned from people who came before you.
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #19 on: April 06, 2009, 04:08:42 PM

That'd be, as Barnett said, because they'd didn't wanna be influenced by other games, and wanted to create their own distinct product, or some similar hogwash.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #20 on: April 06, 2009, 04:11:23 PM

Ha, I doubt they even learned anything from WoW at release or WoW at any time.  We still have the pointless grind and there is no way anyone studing WoW as role model would have that.   These fuckers didn't learn anything from DAoC and that's their own game.  No way they can bothered to grok what other development teams are doing.  
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 04:16:55 PM by tazelbain »

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schild
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Reply #21 on: April 06, 2009, 04:16:01 PM

That'd be, as Barnett said, because they'd didn't wanna be influenced by other games, and wanted to create their own distinct product, or some similar hogwash.
I'm more inclined to blame the entire product on him than anything else, including Mark Jacobs. He's that much of an infectious disease.
Tarami
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Reply #22 on: April 06, 2009, 05:28:46 PM

I'm also interested in where they go from here (other than the obvious of him respawning and being farmed) considering Karl Franz is one of the biggest bosses the lore has to offer.
Well theres supposed to be three capitals per side.
Sigmar. why so serious?

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pxib
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Reply #23 on: April 06, 2009, 11:36:00 PM

I had this same problem with WoW's racial leaders and DAoC's "keep lords":

Leaders are not leaders because they are demigods who can slaughter enitre groups of people. There's nothing epic about taking 40 people in to kill the king and having to fight him for ten minutes. Epic should be fighting the ENTIRE ARMY of said king, and then you arrive in the throne room and, like a chess checkmate, he lays down his arms because you've WON. A dragon as a raid boss I can accept, but a king? Bleah.

Plus if any king were that powerful while he's realm was at war it would be CRIMINAL for him not to be out destroying batallions single-handedly rather than sitting around in his throne room handing out quests all day.

...

Sorry, pointless unrelated nerd rage.

“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” - Pascal
Ratman_tf
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Reply #24 on: April 07, 2009, 12:50:56 AM

Sorry, pointless unrelated nerd rage.




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Reply #25 on: April 07, 2009, 02:08:14 AM

I had this same problem with WoW's racial leaders and DAoC's "keep lords":

Leaders are not leaders because they are demigods who can slaughter enitre groups of people. There's nothing epic about taking 40 people in to kill the king and having to fight him for ten minutes. Epic should be fighting the ENTIRE ARMY of said king, and then you arrive in the throne room and, like a chess checkmate, he lays down his arms because you've WON. A dragon as a raid boss I can accept, but a king? Bleah.

Plus if any king were that powerful while he's realm was at war it would be CRIMINAL for him not to be out destroying batallions single-handedly rather than sitting around in his throne room handing out quests all day.

...

Sorry, pointless unrelated nerd rage.

To be fair, in the tabletop game, Karl Franz is a bad ass too so you can argue that it's in keeping with the lore rather than being ultra-realistic (whatever that might mean in a fantasy game with wizards and chaos monsters).

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pxib
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Reply #26 on: April 07, 2009, 02:49:35 AM

To be fair, in the tabletop game, Karl Franz is a bad ass too so you can argue that it's in keeping with the lore rather than being ultra-realistic (whatever that might mean in a fantasy game with wizards and chaos monsters).
That's just it. I'm not asking for ultra-realism, I'm asking for an epic moment. Everybody crowding into the throne room so they can get one-shotted by Deathclaw's AOE? How is that awesome? "Then we kited Karl Franz around the room, throwing everything we had at him until he yielded," is a lousy story. It doesn't even have potential. "We were playing for 14 hours," is considerably more epic, but not in a way anybody should be proud of.

Eh.

Maybe I should be glad they didn't have some tank park him facing the corner so everybody else could shoot him in the back for ten minutes.

“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” - Pascal
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #27 on: April 07, 2009, 03:15:22 AM

They will increase his hit points now, it's obviously too easy to defeat him.
brake 7
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Reply #28 on: April 07, 2009, 03:54:56 AM

I play Destruction on that server (Karak Eight Peaks) and what most of the commentary seems to ignore is that, in order for Destruction to even get that far in the first place they have to have dominated the game for a good period beforehand, repeatedly taken fortresses and seiged Altdorf multiple times - which is exactly what has happened on K8P in the couple of weeks leading up to this. Now what do you think is going to happen now? Will Order magically rebound from this catastrophic defeat (which has reduced Altdorf to level one) and end the endless dominance of Destruction? Or will they just think "fuck this, what's the point?" and re-roll on a server where they might actually have a chance of winning once in a while or (more likely) quit and go and do something more fun?

So in addition to the huge long list of things that are wrong, broken or just outright bad about the endgame you can add the fact that Mythic, uncharacteristically, has not thought through the consequences of a realm being defeated? What's the reason to continue playing if you're on the losing side if the very fact that you're defeated means that the other side must be so dominant that you have no realistic hope of a comeback and, to top it off, the game decides to make defeat even worse than it already is by kicking you repeatedly in the balls?
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Reply #29 on: April 07, 2009, 04:04:27 AM

you can add the fact that Mythic, characteristically, has not thought through the consequences

A small change there, but you are right on the money. It appears that very little time was spent on working out what happens if one side reaches a particular point of domination, perhaps on the assumption that players would never get there.

Or maybe they have and right now a plan of clockwork precision is working to fix up everything on your server.  awesome, for real

Kageru
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Reply #30 on: April 07, 2009, 04:09:47 AM


What are the gameplay implications of the city level being reset?

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
brake 7
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Reply #31 on: April 07, 2009, 04:17:03 AM

you can add the fact that Mythic, characteristically, has not thought through the consequences

A small change there, but you are right on the money. It appears that very little time was spent on working out what happens if one side reaches a particular point of domination, perhaps on the assumption that players would never get there.

I can see I should have made my sarcasm slightly more obvious....

Or maybe they have and right now a plan of clockwork precision is working to fix up everything on your server.  awesome, for real


Oh yes I'm sure that's exactly it  awesome, for real

I think the original intention of having three capital cities each realm would have helped this no end. For a start it would mean that a capital city siege doesn't matter quite so much. You guys are sieging Altdorf? Ok we're going to sneak off and siege the greenskin capital. And yes that opens up the possibility of "capital swapping", but that's got to be better than one side seeing none of the endgame content at all.
Threash
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Reply #32 on: April 07, 2009, 05:52:05 AM


What are the gameplay implications of the city level being reset?


No pve dungeons.  Basically the losing side has absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep playing now, they don't have pve and are vastly outnumbered/geared/rred in pvp.

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apocrypha
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Reply #33 on: April 07, 2009, 06:20:49 AM

one side seeing none of the endgame content at all.
From the sounds of it that could be considered a bonus for that side  why so serious?

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Modern Angel
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Reply #34 on: April 07, 2009, 08:08:58 AM

How long is the losing side shut out of their capital? And holy fuck, they can't do things like access their banks, etc?
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