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Author Topic: State of the game [Fucked]  (Read 116335 times)
Nija
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Reply #140 on: March 17, 2009, 10:06:14 AM

I'm currently on my 10 day trial. I've got Destruction characters on Dark Crag (21 healer and 15ish melee) and Order characters on Praag. (32 healer, 15ish melee)

Does anyone have characters around these levels and is available to play from ~9 pm PST until ~10:15-10:30 pm PST? If so, email me, nijasan at gmail.com.
rattran
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Unreasonable


Reply #141 on: March 17, 2009, 10:13:07 AM

lol, WAR didn't even let people test beyond tier 2. The beta was closing when they open up tier 3. The beta at best was a stress test.

Are you talking out of your ass, a poor troll, stupid, or all of the above? They tested all tiers, they just ignored everything we were telling them. I got into beta fairly late, and I got to test everything from 1-32, and level 40.

Yes, the game is poor, Mythic are swamp poop But there's no need to make shit up. Berate and abuse them on reality.
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #142 on: March 17, 2009, 10:23:19 AM

pop stats here?  http://warheap.com/servers/
Tarami
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Reply #143 on: March 17, 2009, 10:26:38 AM

lol, WAR didn't even let people test beyond tier 2. The beta was closing when they open up tier 3. The beta at best was a stress test.
Are you talking out of your ass, a poor troll, stupid, or all of the above?
I see you haven't met. awesome, for real

- I'm giving you this one for free.
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raydeen
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Reply #144 on: March 17, 2009, 10:52:22 AM

pop stats here?  http://warheap.com/servers/

So supposedly 580238 lil' warriors are still sticking with WAR? I'm not buying it.

I was drinking when I wrote this, so sue me if it goes astray.
Nebu
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Reply #145 on: March 17, 2009, 10:56:58 AM

I'm going to bet that is some type of character counter and has nothing to do with unique accounts.  I'm just guessing here.


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
schild
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Reply #146 on: March 17, 2009, 11:05:11 AM

Well yea, obviously. As such you'd have to take the max number of characters per account and divide that number by that - and then maybe even further to account for people having alt guilds and such on different servers. It's reasonable to peg the number at 100k-200k though. Which is a huge margin for error, but reflects what an abject fuckup WAR was after launch.
Nebu
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Reply #147 on: March 17, 2009, 11:16:22 AM

What's interesting to me is that WAR and AoC have similar numbers yet AoC seems to be a better game with more potential.  Do you all think this is because Mythic already had a set of fanbois in place?

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
schild
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Reply #148 on: March 17, 2009, 11:18:44 AM

AoC has gotten much better since launch. I was playing it recently on a PVP server with Xuri and it was good fucking times. But since he's almost never on AIM the last few weeks, not so much. As for WAR, no, I think it's all because Mythic screwed the pooch post launch, and no other reason.
Nebu
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Reply #149 on: March 17, 2009, 11:20:52 AM

I guess I was hinting at the fact that I believe AoC should have a larger sub base than WAR, yet they are equal.  I am betting that WAR drops below 50K in the not so distant future. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Bismallah
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Reply #150 on: March 17, 2009, 11:29:48 AM

Eve's around 230k last I heard, could be a little more actually by now. AoC I couldnt even begin to guess. WAR, 50-75k is a good estimate within the next few months. Once summer rolls around some kids might pick it up again, but doubtful. If anything new and shiny comes out before then, WAR's screwed. (Champions Online, Darkfall?)
schild
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Reply #151 on: March 17, 2009, 11:33:25 AM

Quote
(Champions Online, Darkfall?)

haha no
Trippy
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Reply #152 on: March 17, 2009, 11:54:59 AM

lol, WAR didn't even let people test beyond tier 2.
No. People were testing and offering feedback (which they ignored) on all of the tiers.
Bismallah
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Reply #153 on: March 17, 2009, 12:46:55 PM

Quote
(Champions Online, Darkfall?)

haha no

I hadn't planned on playing either, just curious if new 'shineys' would detract even more folks from WAR. I am still preoccupied with Dawn of War 2 for now and consoles.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #154 on: March 17, 2009, 01:50:36 PM

I thought WAR would get a decent bump in subscribers in Russia, however, it turns out that they launched with only two servers.  They opened a third one today.

Quote
March 17, 2009
We are pleased to announce that the third server Shallya (Core RvR) is open to all comers!

It's now looking possible that someone else could grab some free publicity (Eve, LOTRO) by releasing higher subscription numbers than WAR after EA's next quarterly report, providing WAR's numbers continue to decline.

Edit, in before MJ claims the game is now doing extremely well, as they are adding new servers.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 02:06:23 PM by Arthur_Parker »
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #155 on: March 17, 2009, 01:53:23 PM

Wouldn't that kinda be like an adult kicking a retarded infant in the head?

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #156 on: March 17, 2009, 02:03:05 PM

Depends I guess, if WAR subs drift below Eve or LOTRO, I'd imagine there would be a strong temptation to point that out.  MMO gamers are fickle but on a more personal level, I'd imagine CCP or Turbine would be ecstatic to pull ahead of WAR (with an older game) considering the often quoted figure of investment in WAR being somewhere under 100 million dollars.
EWSpider
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Reply #157 on: March 17, 2009, 02:06:17 PM

This is Mark Jacobs we're talking about.  He said south of 100 million.  Knowing MJ the budget for WAR was actually 20 million.

most often known as Drevik
squirrel
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Reply #158 on: March 17, 2009, 03:49:33 PM



lol, WAR didn't even let people test beyond tier 2. The beta was closing when they open up tier 3. The beta at best was a stress test. Mythic was hoping to god that by sheer numbers the game would be active on all cylinders. Come launch that didn't happen, and when WAR isn't populated on all cylinders the game suffers as a whole and eventually empties out players left and right simply because it takes so long to get shit done. They had 500k subs and still manage to make the game feel empty. They just didn't plan for players ignoring certain proportions of the game, and they simply refuse even now to accept it and move on with what works. Honestly if you have to pull players by the balls to do shit than your in deep shit and no amount of rp/loot increases will help you out in the end. If you have to beg players to pvp your not in a pvp game.

As mentioned this is inaccurate. Although I can see where the confusion lies as there were several testing environments running concurrently (Elder Servers vs. Open Beta) but in beta I played all Tiers. Not that matters, the stuff that we commented on didn't get fixed and they nerfed the stuff that was working right before launch so...

AoC is actually kinda fun now, I checked it out for a month in Feb. Still not there yet, but as schild says it's moving upwards in quality. I doubt I'd resub but I can see it finding its level.

WAR has no place being compared to either LoTRO or EVE. Both are far higher quality and much better suited to the markets they want to serve. For all the shit WAR gets here I think it's important to remember a lot of us were enthusiastic about the game until Mark and whatshisface started following the Egotistical Compass of Magnetic Wrong.

Like others I didn't leave WAR for WoTLK. I didn't even buy WoTLK until Jan. when it was obvious that WAR was cratered. And even so, I left WoTLK months after as LoTRO (which I'd never played) suits me better for PvE gameplay.

No, WAR blew it plain and simple.

My bet is with new territories they will end Q1 with 225 - 275k subs worldwide.  Whether they can maintain that remains to be seen but so far Magic 8 Ball says "The Fuck? LOL."

EDIT: Not to say you were comparing WAR to LoTRO/EVE Arthur. My comment was more that having played all three I think that in todays market LoTRO and EVE deserve to have > WAR numbers. And it's noone's fault but Mythics at this point.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 03:53:05 PM by squirrel »

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
Threash
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Reply #159 on: March 17, 2009, 04:29:04 PM

All aoc is missing is a good loot system, WAR needs a total remake.

I am the .00000001428%
Ossigor
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Reply #160 on: March 17, 2009, 08:08:50 PM

Aside from all the obvious failures of the game, the one that pisses me off the most is the flight cut scene they make you watch every time you fly. Given they broke the world apart into multiple chunks, breaking any sense of there being a dynamic world, it's a slap to the face, or a turd on the chest. "Look, because our game is segmented and completely breaks your immersion, we'll compensate you with these shitty cut scenes of you flying into the distance. Or in the case of dwarves, on a fucking tard-copter"
Chockonuts
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Reply #161 on: March 17, 2009, 09:28:23 PM

All aoc is missing is a good loot system, WAR needs a total remake.


I'm not sure if they can remake.  MJ sounds really, really tired of defending the game right about now.  Recent response defending a dev over there.  I think he's about to give up soon:


"In all fairness to Colin (who doesn't post regularly), I think you accidently misread what he said in regards to focus testing feedback.  If you were part of the PTS (or saw the feedback from it) when we tested this fix in 1.06 I think, feedback was very positive.  The feedback we've had since, especially in high load/latency situations as been different.  We wouldn't have put in that change originally if feedback on it was bad.  That's one of the reasons we desperately want people to get on to the PTS when we put up new versions so we can see how things will play under close to LIVE conditions.

In terms of the second part, casting lag in any MMO will exist if latency is horrible.  Even WoW, which handles this stuff very well, can lag at times if conditions are awful (my latency at home is a joke so I've seen this behavior in all games) but the problem is that in WAR, it doesn't happen just when conditions are awful and the team as Colin said, has been working on it.  Neither I nor Colin nor anyone is making any excuses for it but it is a very complicated issue that is exacerbated by the way some of our abilities work.  They are just as frustrated as some of the players but they continue to try to solve the problems.  In terms of why did we say it was fixed, unfortunately, we thought they were fixed but it has proved a bit more elusive than we hoped.     

In terms of cheating, well, even the OP's post did say that our client/server model worked very well as was secure and as long as the server continues to act as traffic cop, everything will be fine. 

I wish I could say that this was an easy issue or that our team wasn't up to the challenge of a tough issue but neither is true.  WAR's RvR nature and larger scale battles tends to make things a bit more challenging and when combined with an very complex ability system and the occassional moding/UI issue, it just has proven to take longer to get this to work for everybody all the time.  We need to do better and the team is working hard to do just that.  I know we'll get there and hopefully soon."

Mark
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #162 on: March 18, 2009, 01:47:05 AM

This is Mark Jacobs we're talking about.  He said south of 100 million.  Knowing MJ the budget for WAR was actually 20 million.

From his comments about 25 million minimum just to make release and 100 million needed to compete with WoW, I'd guess WAR was somewhere in the 55-65 range.  But quite a few senior people have left Mythic recently, so I suspect the real figure is widely known to those working in the industry.

But it doesn't matter, because he can't play both sides, if he hypes WAR prerelease as a serious mmo contenter with a budget of "south of 100 million", he just looks silly later on by saying WAR didn't really cost that much to make.  The same way he looks silly talking about subscriptions going up to 300,000 in 2009 when they previously said they had 800,000 registered users for War in late 2008.
Bismallah
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Reply #163 on: March 18, 2009, 02:50:52 AM

"In all fairness to Colin (who doesn't post regularly), I think you accidently misread what he said ..."

So it's Colin's fault, err the reader's fault, anything but his shit game's fault.
Xuri
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Reply #164 on: March 18, 2009, 04:50:41 AM

AoC has gotten much better since launch. I was playing it recently on a PVP server with Xuri and it was good fucking times. But since he's almost never on AIM the last few weeks, not so much. As for WAR, no, I think it's all because Mythic screwed the pooch post launch, and no other reason.
I'm never on AIM, I'm on ICQ. ;) But yeah, sorry for leaving you hanging there. Haven't had much motivation to play anything at all lately (apart from The West, that is!), mostly I've just been trolling forums while watching a number of different TV-series. And idling in IRC. I'm on a up-swing again now, though! =P

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schild
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Reply #165 on: March 18, 2009, 05:41:24 AM

AoC has gotten much better since launch. I was playing it recently on a PVP server with Xuri and it was good fucking times. But since he's almost never on AIM the last few weeks, not so much. As for WAR, no, I think it's all because Mythic screwed the pooch post launch, and no other reason.
I'm never on AIM, I'm on ICQ. ;) But yeah, sorry for leaving you hanging there. Haven't had much motivation to play anything at all lately (apart from The West, that is!), mostly I've just been trolling forums while watching a number of different TV-series. And idling in IRC. I'm on a up-swing again now, though! =P
No worries, I have SF4, KZ2 (to dabble in... :\), RE5 and Demon's Souls (on it's way), I'll live.
Lantyssa
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Reply #166 on: March 18, 2009, 08:07:37 AM

Quote
Neither I nor Colin nor anyone is making any excuses for it but it is a very complicated issue that is exacerbated by the way some of our abilities work.  They are just as frustrated as some of the players but they continue to try to solve the problems.  In terms of why did we say it was fixed, unfortunately, we thought they were fixed but it has proved a bit more elusive than we hoped.
Five star drive, three star talent.

Funny how it bites you in the ass when a real problem shows up.  (And makes great message board fodder to insult people who are probably working hard but have idiot bosses spewing drivel.)

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
nurtsi
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Reply #167 on: March 19, 2009, 03:31:37 AM

I'm just downloaded the EU trial client and their downloader crashed in an assertion. Oh well.

There's still bugs in the UI and at least the public quests in greenskin T1 are bugged. For examples, the giant with the bomb and squigs runs around, disappears, reappears and repeats the running. In the third phase, the dwarfs are not spawning so it is impossible to complete the PQ.

Also old UI bugs are still here as well. For example, if you enter a scenario while you have the PQ timer on your UI, the timer stays there even inside the scenario and makes it impossible to see the countdown and timer on the scenario itself.

Tier one is still pretty fun thought, despite all the crap. Loads of people zerging in RVR. Feels like good times at Tarren Mill. Makes me sad they still haven't polished the game. Wasted potential  sad
Nebu
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Reply #168 on: March 19, 2009, 06:16:33 AM

The first tier was VERY fun, especially at release.  By the middle of the second tier you'll wonder where the fun went.  By the third tier, you'll realize that you already have a job and quit.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Hawkbit
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Reply #169 on: March 19, 2009, 07:46:33 AM

I still contend that the Greenskin T1 is one of the most fun online gaming experiences I've had.  The Empire T1 wasn't shabby either.  The rest of the game... not so much. 
Ashamanchill
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Reply #170 on: March 19, 2009, 09:17:28 AM

Ya Empire tier 1 was a good time.  As much as I bash the game I will give them that.  The Towns were cool.  The BOs were laid out so that you wanted to capture them, and each one flowed into the next.  The PQs made sense. 
By tier 3 they gave up. There's a town where it's just a hill with NPCs standing on it handing out quests.  Their BOs are just rocks in arbitrary places.  And their PQs are all versions of kill sthe same thirty guys, one will have kill thiry Rogue Pirates, the next one will have kill thirty Rebel Pirates.

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Modern Angel
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Reply #171 on: March 19, 2009, 09:38:11 AM

Tier 1 and half of tier 2 being so fucking good is *exactly* why I bash the game so much.
Soulflame
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Reply #172 on: March 19, 2009, 10:04:21 AM

For limited definitions of "good" too.  Putting key abilities for every class at level 7 is just irritating beyond belief.  About the third or fourth alt I created I was just angry as hell that I was going to have to grind through these stupid levels in order to open up key functionality for the class.
Nevermore
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Reply #173 on: March 19, 2009, 10:11:18 AM

If it's already a grind just to get to level 7, then that's a game you really don't want to play.  Hell, that's why I don't play it.

It's funny because DAoC pulled the same huge exp increase coming out of beta, but it largely didn't impact subs too much because the only competition at the time was the even more grindy EQ.  The amount of hubris displayed by Jacobs thinking he could get away with the same chicanery a second time with the amount of competition there is in the market right now is simply mind boggling.

Over and out.
Soulflame
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Reply #174 on: March 19, 2009, 10:33:13 AM

You can safely apply past tense to my comments.  I canceled WAR back in Nov, and nothing I've read since then has even hinted the game has reached a state where I would enjoy it.
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