f13.net

http://www.war-europe.com/#/news/?id_news=en395&lang=en


The only applicable comment :uhrr:

Yo dawg.  I heard you like experience bars, so I put an experience bar in your experience bar... :why_so_serious:

I'm not one for tired memes but if that doesn't deserve a "Yo dawg, I heard you like grind in your grind so we put in another XP bar so you can grind while you grind" I don't know what does.

Edit - DAMN YOU LANTYSSA!  :grin:

For those who have lost the drive to click on the link.

Folks,

Blah, blah, blah...The team has worked very hard on this and the scope of this patch cycle demonstrates Mythic’s willingness to continue to work on WAR as it stands now and not focus resources in other directions... blah, blah, blah.

1. Client/Server issues (honestly)
2. Bugs and Polish (400+ more - after the last 400+)
3. Searching for ORvR fixes (Yes, the aforementioned <new> influence bar)
4. Searching for Keep fixes
5. Searching for Keep Defense fixes (in particular)
6. Searching for Battle Objective fixes
7. Searching for Zone control fixes
8. Searching for Zone Capture fixes
9. Searching for City Raiding fixes
10. Oh yeah, Career Balancing
11. Moar Scenarios

This time we think our magic dartboard of game design fixes will really deliver... and Blah, Blah, Blah

+++

Commentary: WaR increasingly looks like a ramshackle MMO game engine desperately searching for a design.

It is not particularly clever to point out that this is about what I might have expected during our beta testing... the fact that it comes 6 mos after release is a little creepy.

Edit for Blah, Blah content update.

Re-reading that paragraph there's a great line


So If EA pulls the plug "We still wanted to work on the game, but sorry blame EA!"?!

Good catch, Fuser, way to data mine the Blah Blah's

That was a shot at Blizzard and Tigole going off to work on the new MMO project. MBJ's penis envy is more than a little pathetic.

It's just too bad Blizzard can't hear anything over OHGODWE'REDROWNINGINMONEYSENDHALP

Hahahaha! What an amazing dickhead! God DAMN I don't think I've ever seen anything like this.

Promising increased XP gains for PvP activity, which is aleatory and, most of the time, nonexistant in my tier during my play time in skull throne, and saying fuck all about increased PvE XP gains.

Go go magnetic wrong.

Do morale abilities fire when you click the button yet?

Yes

I hate that meme, but it fit so well I couldn't resist.  If it's any consolation, you had the same lofty thought as a tortured idiot. ;D

I take this as "We like <teh vision> and will not change the core gameplay aspects of WAR, so like it or leave it!"

Maybe my reading comprehension needs help.

Gotta love the bitterness in this thread.  It just goes to show that even if Mythic was able to comprehensively fix their game (not saying it is anywhere close), they will still be far behind the curve rebuilding game with all the bad will that has been generated.

Haha, Mark still believes the reason the game tanked was because of the 'economic times'

They deserve the bad will, they should have to spend a few years grinding something to lower it.

They just have to grind boars until they get their player faction up.

Do you truly believe they are even on the correct path to unfuck this game? Bitterness is bred from sweet promise unfulfilled. The dickbaggery about the painfully obvious need for quicker experience gain just adds to the problem.

It is deserved, no doubt.  I don't know if they are on the correct path. If 1.2 makes "defending by not defending" no longer viable, that is getting them closer to Unfuckedland.

Yup he's always got somebody/something to blame other than their own bad design decisions. It's especially amusing he picked the economy to blame this time given that the video games industry as a whole is one of the few bright spots at the moment.

Are they moving to Saskatchewan?

I think the strength of warbands and the almost complete lack of sport pvp also limits the lifespan.  You need to allow for a wide variety of playstyles to keep people interested.  Right now it's "play the way we want you to" or dabble in scenarios/pve.  

I'm just pulling things out of my ass here, but haven't MMOs kinda shown to be extremely resilient to economic fluctuations? People get fired and subsequently people fire up MMOs because they're extremely cheap entertainment if you already own the hardware (which most prospective subscribers do). Well, the people then never get employed again because they end up stagnant and incompetent. But that's beside the point.

In general that is the case with entertainment.

We haven't had a big recession while MMOs have been around and popular, however a lot of the traditional entertainment outlets were pricing themselves out of the general public's pocketbook during the good times.  MMOs are still very cheap in comparison, and at a time when escapism becomes much easier to be lured into.  MMOs should do well in comparison to other industries.

Once again, no PVE xp boost.  Staying unsubbed.

I've given up, they're never going to fix the XP curve on PvE simply because that would be admitting I was right and they were wrong.

Yes, I'm blaming myself now. That's how convincing Mythic is. Why blame them when I can blame someone else?

I lol'd.

I won't even consider re-subbing unless they:

*  Fix the absurd XP curve - Hint:  it was nearly perfect in beta until you fucked it up MJ
*  Get rid of RvE.  I have no desire to play a game where someone can get a high PvP rank by gaming the system and avoiding PvP altogether.
*  Once the RvE is removed reset everyone's Renown Rank.

The above will never happen so I won't even ramble on about the craptastic game engine and combat.

Damn you Schild, damn you to hell!

The XP curve is absolutely fine.

Oh, I see what you're doing. You clever monkey, you.

See, here's the other thing. I always come back to MMOs. Even just to check it out, see what's up, play the noob zones... I'm about to do it with PotBS *right the fuck now* and I'm subbed to WoW and LotRO on a more or less permanent basis.

And, in almost eerie fashion, every single time I think about giving WAR a quick spin either Jacobs or Fatty McSandals says something stupid to change my mind. Case in point: MJ's little dig on Blizzard. I'm neutral on fucking Blizzard beyond them having their shit together in a general fashion but shut the fuck up about it, you fucking mong. Probably thirty bucks from me but no, you have to run your mouth perpetually.

Jesus, what a couple of shitbags.

Aww, that's big of you. Working on a MMO after it has been launched for six months? Why Mythic must be the first company ever to do such a thing.

However, Mythic did focus some resources straight to the unemployment queue.  :oh_i_see:

Mark's comments would be relevant if he had an Eve Online like situation, where the game after having improved over a period of time, was starting ti experience growth.  Given that they went from 800k "Active users" to under 300l subscriptions, closed 40 of the initial 56 servers, and laid off numerous people, his comments come off a petulant little child and will only ring with the deluded fanbois and fangrrls who believe WAR is a awesome.

I'm confused on the possible 'other directions' that Mythic could be focussing on? DAoC? UO? I fiond it hard to believe that anyone is even floating the idea of taking resources off their biggest and newly live product to redistribute to maintenance mode projects.

He mentioned it before on vnboards, I think he even mentioned it in a video interview.  He's not talking about other live projects he's talking about starting work on "the next big thing".  Insert "Romans in Space" joke.

Ta-da!

I am not sure I believe that the statement was a dig on Bliz.  More like "EA hasn't shifted all our resources to Sims3, honest!" to me.

I think with the Patch 1.2 changes, and what he's said about his SotG related to 1.2.1 to 1.3 will certainly move the needle in the right direction. I am very interested to see how he handles the ward gear revisions because I hate the ward gear crap 200x more than any xp curve issues.  By the way, since many of you all stopped playing I do think that T3 got quest exp increases.  I rerolled on Dark Crag on Feb 8th, and it took me about 3 weeks of casual play (3 hours a night, 5 nights a week) to hit level 40 mostly by power questing.

RVR is where the game is, but they have to let folks move the war.  In Nov-Jan they were failing at the fortress lord level with the crashes, and forts have mostly been fine since then.  But after patch 1.2 with the City Invasion mob buffs, good luck getting to stage II without several people in each invasion instance with greater wards.  Then in Stage II, its even harder because so many people don't have superior wards or don't have the renown rank to wear their Invader gear.

So in the end game, too much emphasis is put on greater and superior ward gear and I think that's the biggest place they are failing right now. Casuals will never see hardly any superior ward gear because the LV dungeon is a big gear check, and Invader requires Renown Rank 55.

Warhammer has to figure out how to keep casuals in the game and progressing while at the same time making the lower tiers fun and fast enough to where people quit in the T2-T3 brackets.

Your definition of casual is fucking out there, man.

Heh, I was just going to quote that.

I just got this in the mail with a free re-up trial:

Not free.

That's a well designed ad, though. Picking up the names of suckers that are still subscribing was a good idea.

It's MMO-casual. That's 15h a week which IS pretty damn casual for the market.

They just sent me an e-mail promising "increased experience in Tier 4" if I come back.  :awesome_for_real:

Also, awesome new re-itemized dungeons!!!  (No word on re-itemized p-fucking-v-fucking-p).

I'm almost glad I am still getting these e-mails just for the lolz.

Ah right.  Free 10 days if I resub.  What big idiots.  They can't even entice me to come back the right way.

15 hours a week is generally considered MMO casual man. Now I choose to spread that out almost daily while others may do 10 of those hours over a weekend.

I don't live in a basement, with my mom, ignore my kids, or lose my job just to put in 15 hours a week. Its basically time that I would normally watch TV, but instead I divert it to MMO's.

It's pretty sad when their strategy is to get people to resub temporarily and hope they forget to cancel (again.)

Perhaps Mark is referring to all the people they have working on WAR:ToA.

Is there an MMO that doesn't use this strategy?

EDIT: I have been corrected in another thread.  LotRO is such an example.

Just piling on here, but that is in NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM what could ever be considered CASUAL PLAY.

Well, it's relative.  In EQ days, 3 hours a night was very casual.  In the modern era of MMOs, casual is more like a random hour or two here and there.  WoW and CoH helped redefine casual in the medium.

MMOG's being made for OCD freaks like us should still not let us redefine casual. Yes, it's only 15 hours, but if it's 5 out of 7 nights a week, that's not casual, that's a habit. If someone drank 3 beers a night 5 nights a week, I wouldn't consider them a casual drinker.  :why_so_serious: Nebu's description of sporadic random hours of play here and there is casual.

Even if every single person remembers to cancel, Jacobs can still trumpet 'LOOK! LOOK!  SUBS ARE GOING UP!!' and the 'official' sub numbers on the financials will be all inflated.  It's all smoke and mirrors.

Lol.  So does it got through your friends list, or does it pluck two random names from your server and throw them at you?  Sadly I think this is one of the best ideas Mythic has come up with.


Uh oh.  Guess I've got a problem.

It must be friends list or account-based friends list since several of us didn't get any mention of other players, only "your allies".

Or none of your friends are still playing.

On the 'reactivate then hope you don't cancel' thing, I don't think WoW's Scroll of Resurrection promo (where you can reactivate a friend's account for 10 days) requires you to add or update billing information, nor does it auto-bill when it expires.

Sounds like a veiled statement of "we are right, have been right, and will continue to be right" despite a lot of forum polls, how-to-improve-RvR, be-more-like-DAoC, etc. threads and discussion/complaints that WHA at least is full of. Those sorts of threads are usually the longest ones on WHA at least when I paid attention.

I think, perhaps, people are reading to much into this.

Many take this as the death of the Origins server that Mark promise to the old guard in DAoC.   I believe they are correct.  Mark is putting all of his eggs into WAR with the delusion that they will somehow make this niche title mainstream.  I'd say that WAR would be lucky to have over 100k subs in another 6 months.

Just to add on to this, it is names taken from the friends list. They listed three names I had on a friends list, but they were 6 month subs. So just any open accounts, not active accounts are listed as the people they listed are already back to playing WoW exclusively.

Normally these emails don't come for a while into the games life, but since the 6 month subs are about to expire it does make sense to do this now since they can say those friends 'are still in the battle' as they've chosen to do.

I think Origins died a little while ago...

http://vnboards.ign.com/daoc_general_board/b5176/110428770/r110431616/

The "that would have been the easier path to follow" comment is rather ominous sounding.  WTG Jacobs!

It's just his typical 'Look at me, I'm such a good guy!' spin.

Yeah, that whole DAoC origins thing just cemented the fact that Mark is a fucking douchebag.

The line:

Fuck off. He's basically asking for the DAoC players to suck his dick and beg for it. This is AFTER Mythic announced plans for an origins server. People were fucking pumped up. People were voting in the polls, posting all over the forums and blowing up about it. What did Mythic do? Fucking NOTHING. They didn't talk about it for at least 6 months. Everyone gave up hope that it would ever happen after War got released and everyone went their separate ways with a shitty taste in their mouth after Mythic, once again, pisses on them.

And now Mark wants fans to beg for origins again?

The nerve of this asshole is astounding.

When I first heard about Origins, I was so excited that I nearly signed back up to DAoC.  Fortunately I resisted that impulse.

I'd also say that Mythic themselves killed a lot of the excitement over Origins by releasing information about it.  People had not envisioned a retuned New Frontiers ruleset sort of loosely based on some mishmash of the Classic and ToA servers, with Old Frontiers turned on.  People had thought Mythic had meant something more along the lines of taking a 1.6x version of the game, putting it up on a server, and running with it.  (Post left axe nerf, if you please.)

This. Hard to imagine more vocal support for Origins than they have had in the forums. Screw groundswell, Mythic has had a tsunami of input about this already.

It's just their lame "I can't hear you" excuse for not doing anything, when the real reason is it would just cut directly into their already shitty WAR numbers.

Would be pretty dumb for it to be the dig on Blizzard when WoW has been maintained for 4 years so far since launch. He can start taking digs around 2012, if they're still actively updating Warhammer by then.

Of course, it being pretty dumb doesn't at all rule out this is actually the case :why_so_serious:

And I just wanted to add, that if we look at this advertisement from the marketing/pr perspective of the company, it's pretty damn good. Fits the atmosphere of WAR very well, encourages players to resub, and has the solution to many peoples problems (a promise of faster leveling = solution to long grind). So, at least from the PR/Marketing side of Mythic, I think they are doing a pretty damn good job.

Now if only the companies leadership would do as well.

 :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real:

On the advertising/marketing/PR note, the cards they mailed out to the heavy blogs for Valentines day was pretty damn neat. Cheap, effective, and overall looks like they did a good job with them. They had the riddles on them and I believe some folks received hints for the Slayer class which was neat too.

Some of the viral marketing stuff WAR has been using has been very good.

But again, that's the sizzle, not the sausage.

WAR has viral marketing?

Edit: You know what, I don't like doing this, but in this case it's entirely fair considering I, you know, run a gaming site that has a laser focus on MMORPGs and their ilk - if they have viral marketing, it's total shit SIMPLY because I haven't heard of it. If you can't reach me, well, lol.

That's what they called sending hair dye to the blogs.

Yes, this is what I meant. Sending favoured bloggers something they knew would get blogged, then having those blogs popularised by other blogs / gaming sites.

That's not even a little bit viral. Yes yes, I know we're arguing the definition of viral here, but I'm pretty sure things like I Love Bees sets the bar for it.

In gaming, any blog that gets favored by devs is going to get attention. Of course, maybe you consider f13 getting attention from Mark to be a viral marketing scheme. Who knows. But really, if you send or do anything that's targeting any blog, the rest of the gaming world will pick it up. I'd label it the GAF/Kotaku Effect, but neither of them need their ego stroked.

For example, much like CheapyD and that fake leak thing he did a while ago, I'm pretty sure I've got enough cred that I could post a totally fake interview with someone important and everyone would pick it up. My credibility would be shot but it would prove my point (and you know it  :drill:).

I'm fairly certain that WAR has proved it's willingness to lower all bars it encounters.

Touche, Shakespeare, touche.

Not only are you not the only website with "a laser focus on MMORPGs and their ilk", you run a forum that is openly hostile to Warhammer. So no, you don't get the shiny swag.

We're not "openly hostile".  We're "usefully cynical".   :why_so_serious:

Is that a confession that you're working for Mythic?  :oh_i_see:

Lum has already failed to deny that he works for Blizzard now.  :awesome_for_real:

Hi has also failed to deny he works for SoE, funcom, CCP, turbine, etc...

my bet is SoE, Eq3 fueled by LumVision   :why_so_serious:

Hah! I don't get the shiny swag either   :awesome_for_real:

I'm pretty sure we've called Mark a cockgobbling douchebag more than enough to be on his shit list rather than his secret viral swag list.

I'm certain you are on Mark's shortlist to send secret viral swag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox).

Let's not pretend that this Jacobs hathos started in a vacuum or anything. Back in beta people were very much defending WAR, myself included, because the potential was there. It wasn't until a string of facepalm decisions and statements that the knives were sharpened to a fine point.

Also: GEE WHIZ! WHAT CHANGED SUDDENLY BETWEEN BETA AND RELEASE THAT COULD HAVE PISSED PEOPLE OFF? I WONDER WHAT CHANGED SO RAPIDLY!

Hang on...


....


....


....



Here was me thinking we'd done away with this 'grind-for-40-levels-before-admission-to-the-real-game-only-max-level-counts' bullshit?

Guess not.

Can anyone tell me how much of a xp boost T3 got?

If I could be bothered to go back and confirm my admitedly faulty memory of the patch notes Arthur posted... something pathetic (considering it needed to be 100% plus), like 10-20%.

Sadly there wasn't enough kids in beta calling bullshit on mythic changes. The pve xp decrease was suppose to funnel more people into rvr according to the logic the fanbois kept spouting anytime someone tried to explain how dumb that change was. Even till today any xp increase to pve is considered game destroying, along with any attempt to funnel people away from banging their dicks against a keep door.The beta was filled to the brim with fanbois, mythic listened to fanbois, fanbois are the only ones still playing. mythic is obviously not listening to anyone sensible, but for their credit, there wasn't enough sensible people willing to start flame wars with the fanbois.

Here is some examples;
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266401
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267565

I resubbed for the 10 day free deal.  I played two nights and realized "same as it ever was" and quit. 

1) Serious balance issues.
2) Still takes WAY too long to level.
3) Gear still plays too dominant a role for a pvp game.
4) Said gear in 3) requires a lot of pve for a pvp game.
5) Players still look for the easiest way to get rps rather than engaging in war.

Meh.

So when you canceled, did it start your subscription like their poorly worded e-mail said, or did it actually cancel?  (You did cancel, right?)

I think it cancelled.  I got an email from Mythic confirming cancellation. 

If I get a bill in 7 days, I'll let you know.

What tier were you playing Nebu?

All of them.  I player the top tier on my RP, the third tier on a sorc, the second tier on my zealot, and the bottom tier on a few of the new classes.

EDIT: in my opinion, tiers 1 & 2 were still the most fun.  This was also part of the problem for me.  If I have to grind to an endgame, it should probably be the most fun part of the game.  If it is... I'm not getting it.

Have they added an /xpoff yet?

Not that I saw.  I hope they never do.  The lower tier bg's are already filled with twinks making the tier hell for anyone new to the game. 

I recently subbed again and the game feels the same as it used to. The UI is still unresponsive, if you want to make sure your skills go off you have to spam each key repeatedly. Which in turn results in your character doing crazy animations out of sync with what skill you're using.

I did notice way more people in Open RvR. The 'RvR lake Tier Influence Rewards' apply to each racial pairing, so there's plenty of loot to be had just by PVPing. The thing is, its still mostly a game of trading keeps and BOs. On occasion you'll have some pretty epic battles but it comes down to numbers and who's gear is better.

Given that the RvR warbands hop from pairing-to-pairing nonstop to keep swap, your Tier Influence hardly raises. You do get a lot of exp for player kills in oRvR lands, but they need a way to funnel people together to create more battles. Defending a keep isn't really worth the effort.

Someone should change the thread title to:

State of the game: fucked.

I resubbed begining of March because I wanted something to play and I though maybe they improved the game. Also I wanted to try the choppa.
Well they did on a few front improve it but not quite enough.

The stuttering and performance issues are mostly gone, for me at least.
The UI issues are mostly gone as well, no more clicking morale 100 times to launch it.
The combat animation and stuff feels less disconnected from your actions but its not quite perfect.

Once I figured that and have done a few scenarios, the game still has that little thing I can't quite describe but that spoils the fun for me.

Cancelled my subscription and will probably never return to this game..

Just when I thought Mythic couldn't really fuck anything else up, people are realizing that having too many alts is now hurting guild rank progression. So folks are getting on, getting invited into the guilds, playing and then leaving the guild when they log off if they don't intend to be on that same character within a few days. Sigh.

http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/110482407/p1

That thread is great, it's got everything.

I intended to resub for a month to check things out.  I install and patch, input my CC info and log in.  They don't even have the Choppah available yet for anyone that wasn't subbed before the word went out about the reinvites.  So mythic again caters to whatever catass players had to do to get access to them first.  So I can fight them in RVR but can't actually play them. 

Played my SM for an hour, realized that it took me that full hour to get 1/4 a level (w/ rested) and I logged in disgust.  I also canceled my sub so I don't get billed at all once the 10 days is up. 

I don't understand how one company can so monumentally fuck up. 

Will be available for everyone tomorrow.

Wow, I would love to hear the justification for that.  :uhrr:

considering this is a quote taken from the "come back for 10 days" email they sent out. And there is nothing in the FAQ about the availability of those classes.

What they tought was "Hey, they'll come back, see all those slayers and choppas, kill and get killed by them, get pumped, and then, come next tuesday, they'll be able to create their very own.".

As usual, they failed to correctly understand what players would think.

There were plenty of us who brought up "constructive" counter arguments. But the problem was that threads would be locked or we'd be threatened with the ban stick if we tried to defend our position from the fanbois.

I'm never going to be a "yes man" beta tester for a game, but I won't sit there an incite forum flame wars either just to be disruptive like some hardcore testers do. The bottom line with War Beta is that there wasn't a good guild beta test phase. You can't throw a bunch of PUG players together for mass PVP, and get the same findings you would as if you put a bunch of organized guilds in there to go at it for a while. Maybe from a data mining standpoint you can pick up on some things, but organized guilds will develop organized strategies to deal with end game content and end game PVP. PUG's will just show up, wander around, spam some buttons, die a lot, and give you 10,000 different results.

No beta is perfect, but I think Mythic missed the boat with how they handled (or didn't handle) the guild beta.

Yes, how dare they reward players actually playing the game!  I mean OMG it was a live event that probably took at most 3-4 hours to do everything.

I love how people here still whine about XP in the game.

It's not whining, it's why almost Everybody Quit. I don't know if you're trying to make a point.

Why are you defending them on such stupid points anyway?

The xp in the game is terrible.  You get bored with a tier before you level out of it.  That's a problem in a pvp game.  So much of a problem, in fact, that most people who bought the WAR box failed to resub after the first few months. 


EDIT: Damnit Schild and his fast typing skills.


Apparently we aren't as HARDCORE as he is. 

Oh yeah I'm hardcore lol.

Because the XP isn't as bad as you all make it out to be.  If i was hardcore I'd have a level 40 slayer already.  There were ones floating around 2 days after they released.  It takes longer to powerlevel a character to cap in WoW.  Oh ya, that's a PvE game, my bad.. yet it's still the endgame that people want to do there.

I like the game, does it have problems?  Sure like every mmo does.  Sorry if there aren't 11 million subs, maybe you all would worship the game more.  Or if you could level while offline, would that help? 

But I find it funny that you still bitch about the game, considering I doubt there's going to be anything that will even draw you back to the game.

Dude, like 80% of the playerbase fucking disappeared after the first month. What are you talking about? It's worse than we could EVER make it out to be.

I'm sure Wrath of the Lich King had more of an effect then.  OMG XP TOO HARD.

I'm sorry, I don't know when you took a left turn from rational into crazyfuckland but plz to be getting back on the train to reality.

Wrath or not, something had to drive them somewhere else.

"OMG XP TOO HARD" is not an acceptable response. Mostly because it makes you sound like a gibbering retard.

I would have been happy with being able to stick to ONE racial pairing and level all the way through. <shrug>

/Played hours should never be a measurement of how grindy a game is.  If leveling feels stale and repetitive, it's grindy.  That the mass exodus of players in the first months were probably people who never made it past T3 and saw the terrible endgame says a lot of people felt that way.

Ditto.  Level 24 and almost done with Tier 3 racial content.  No thanks.

And I didn't start WoW back up until almost February.  I prefered doing nothing than playing WAR.

*shuts 63 servers*

That's exactly why I stopped playing, well before wotlk came out.  If I could have stuck with one consistant storyline from start to finish not only would it have gone faster but it would have been more immersive.

Even with all the bugs in beta I was having a lot of fun levelling chaos and sticking with the storyline. Once I bought the released game though not only were many of the same bugs present but suddenly I had to run to hell and back to do other racial quests or just grind battlegrounds and that was NOT fun.

Even if it's a pvp game how hard is it to make a cohesive line of quests and areas so that you never have to 'stop' stopping by hitting a brick wall of high level mobs where you either have to go to another racial pairing(which didn't make sense for any races because of the storylines) or just grind.

 It's that hard stop i encountered while levelling the live game that eventually made me quit. After hitting t3 and realizing i'd have to do even MORE running back and forth to dorf/greenskin area that i could give fuckall about on my chosen I quit.

Fuck yes.

Let me put things in perspective for you. I love WH lore and can play the game for free. I don't.

This is where Evildrider's missing the point.  Yes, in absolute terms, it doesn't take that long to get to cap in WAR.  It's the process that did them in - I personally had the realization that I would rather be at work for no pay than leveling my character, and I quit.  However, if the absolute time to hit cap were heavily reduced, I could easily have hit cap and never had that realization. 

(Of course, in all likelihood, I instead would have realized that the endgame was re-hashed dog shit and quit over that instead; but, y'know, maybe I'd have rolled an alt?  At least there'd be a chance of my playing past the free month)

Yeah that. I didn't mind the PVE being boring as shit. It WAS boring, but as long as it fed me quests that let me level without noticing the xp bar, I could tolerate it for the small moments of joy the PVP gave. But it didn't. I had to hunt all around the fucking world for quests and PVP was almost nonexistent outside of the same shitty goddamn scenario everyone was running ad nauseum.

EDIT: Also, I certainly did quit for Wrath of the Lich King. Hell, I've never even bought Burning Crusade. I wasn't playing any MMO until I found a great deal on LoTRO.

ED hates wow with a passion. A passion so hot he has been looking for ANY game to find a stake in to continue to scorn WoW.  He's apparently decided the standar he'll be carrying is WoW instead of AoC or any of the other failed games of the last 14 months.

Trying to argue anything with him is pointless.  You are wrong, he is right.  That is the view and the response of every post.  Best to ignore it and move on, unless you just feel like trolling him.

It's so easy! :drillf:

I think they did one major thing wrong that caused the population to disappear;  they nerfed xp gains at release.  If you hate pve, at least you can get thru it fast to get to the pvp.  If you hate the story or in a sucky area, you can get thru it fast and move on.

Their mistake was thinking that we wanted to soak in their crap pve.  But more likely they just didn't have the endgame anywhere near ready.

In Beta I had a blast with WAR. It was pretty fast to EXP, and you didnt feel stressed to do it. The real EXP bar was your RR level. Why they basically cut EXP gain in half a week from release I dont know. But it was a very very bad move.

Honestly, if they made it easy to level, I would go back to the game. I would make alts, and just RVR.

Well, they also should have kept scenarios from becoming God and leaving them as a side-show when you want quick PvP.

In Beta, everything was so energized and new and ORvR was sort of self-regulated by the players doing it as their first choice.

Once scenarios became known as the thing to do to get rewards as opposed to ORvR, it went downhill. Certainly for anyone that favored DAoC's brand of total focus on the frontiers and ORvR-life, it was waaaay downhill.


Edit: Now, if they had done Thidranki-style open BGs by tiers instead of what scenarios became, you wouldn't have seen the massive drop-off in subs perhaps (XP issues aside). Yeah, I know they had ORvR by Tier, but its the overall mix with scenarios, PvE grinding, PQs to confuse where people should be to fight other people. Too much damn instancing nowadays for a world that one wants to feel is open and a bit sandboxed for strategic and community reasons.

WAR's biggest problem, bar none, was the expectation of fans thanks to Mythic's promotional material. "War is everywhere!" and "RvR is the core of our game!" were taken as being true and a lot of people wanted. Instead there was a massive PvE grind and PvP (outside of scenarios) was incredibly poorly incentivised.

... but I'm repeating myself.

Not only you. :why_so_serious:

If I remember right, it wasn't even WotLK that there was a huge drop. It was the patch PREPPING for WotLK.

In any case, I didn't leave FOR WotLK. I have had multiple MMO subs before, and would've been perfectly happy keeping a WAR one going for my "PvP MMO" game, if it didn't make it clear that no matter how badly I want to like a Mythic game, they will eventually do so much boneheaded crap that I will have to stop playing. I just picked up the warning signs REALLY EARLY this time, what with having danced this dance before in DAoC.

I was in the same boat.  I had literally done every quest in every racial pairing in tier 3 and it still wasn't enough to get out of that hole, so I had to bend over, clench my teeth, and do some Tor Annroc. 
I honestly think, at this point they should just feed us a Level 40 at the character creation screen.  Or better yet, an exp cappped max level for tier 1.  that was the games pinnacle.

I'm sure everyone is probably already thinking this but...

To successfully launch and maintain a game, you have to first make your core userbase happy. These core players are the people that bought and played WAR because of the promised RvR content.

But because mythic started out the gate trying to please the MAINSTREAM, they left their core userbase high and dry.

Mythic cannot understand currently, that in order for WAR to be successful, they have to build OUT from the core players... WAR feels like a mishmash of options and motivations that tries to please all gamers, but does not excel with a single set.

No, it's because the game is broken in various aspects that touches all users. No matter if you we're core/mainstream you had to be willing to overlook some major warts.

 * Animations
 * Slop timer/queuing system (has effect on their animation but speaks of how it is a broken design)
 * Chat system (if your social interaction is broken in an MMO you have issues)
 * Game engine (pick anything, window dragging, RVR performance, stability, general performance for rending quality)
 * XP Curve
 * Broken timesinks (crafting, one area you could of put more bars :) )

I'm probably missing some but you can see if your a "core" or "mainstream" your game experience is badly broken.

Mainstream my ass, they made a crappy game case closed. Mythic problem was their "core player base" was 100k subs, for a game by nature that needed 1 million subs to be moderately fun and needed 500k subs to be profitable.

lol, WAR didn't even let people test beyond tier 2. The beta was closing when they open up tier 3. The beta at best was a stress test. Mythic was hoping to god that by sheer numbers the game would be active on all cylinders. Come launch that didn't happen, and when WAR isn't populated on all cylinders the game suffers as a whole and eventually empties out players left and right simply because it takes so long to get shit done. They had 500k subs and still manage to make the game feel empty. They just didn't plan for players ignoring certain proportions of the game, and they simply refuse even now to accept it and move on with what works. Honestly if you have to pull players by the balls to do shit than your in deep shit and no amount of rp/loot increases will help you out in the end. If you have to beg players to pvp your not in a pvp game.

I dunno, I beta'd Tier 4 with a Shadow Warrior, boring as all get out. AI was horrid, end game was horrid, I still dont know why I bought the game.

I'm currently on my 10 day trial. I've got Destruction characters on Dark Crag (21 healer and 15ish melee) and Order characters on Praag. (32 healer, 15ish melee)

Does anyone have characters around these levels and is available to play from ~9 pm PST until ~10:15-10:30 pm PST? If so, email me, nijasan at gmail.com.

Are you talking out of your ass, a poor troll, stupid, or all of the above? They tested all tiers, they just ignored everything we were telling them. I got into beta fairly late, and I got to test everything from 1-32, and level 40.

Yes, the game is poor, Mythic are :uhrr: But there's no need to make shit up. Berate and abuse them on reality.

pop stats here?  http://warheap.com/servers/

I see you haven't met. :awesome_for_real:

So supposedly 580238 lil' warriors are still sticking with WAR? I'm not buying it.

I'm going to bet that is some type of character counter and has nothing to do with unique accounts.  I'm just guessing here.

Well yea, obviously. As such you'd have to take the max number of characters per account and divide that number by that - and then maybe even further to account for people having alt guilds and such on different servers. It's reasonable to peg the number at 100k-200k though. Which is a huge margin for error, but reflects what an abject fuckup WAR was after launch.

What's interesting to me is that WAR and AoC have similar numbers yet AoC seems to be a better game with more potential.  Do you all think this is because Mythic already had a set of fanbois in place?

AoC has gotten much better since launch. I was playing it recently on a PVP server with Xuri and it was good fucking times. But since he's almost never on AIM the last few weeks, not so much. As for WAR, no, I think it's all because Mythic screwed the pooch post launch, and no other reason.

I guess I was hinting at the fact that I believe AoC should have a larger sub base than WAR, yet they are equal.  I am betting that WAR drops below 50K in the not so distant future. 

Eve's around 230k last I heard, could be a little more actually by now. AoC I couldnt even begin to guess. WAR, 50-75k is a good estimate within the next few months. Once summer rolls around some kids might pick it up again, but doubtful. If anything new and shiny comes out before then, WAR's screwed. (Champions Online, Darkfall?)

haha no

No. People were testing and offering feedback (which they ignored) on all of the tiers.

I hadn't planned on playing either, just curious if new 'shineys' would detract even more folks from WAR. I am still preoccupied with Dawn of War 2 for now and consoles.

I thought WAR would get a decent bump in subscribers in Russia, however, it turns out that they launched with only two servers.  They opened a third one today (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=www.war-russia.ru&sl=ru&tl=en&history_state0=).


It's now looking possible that someone else could grab some free publicity (Eve, LOTRO) by releasing higher subscription numbers than WAR after EA's next quarterly report, providing WAR's numbers continue to decline.

Edit, in before MJ claims the game is now doing extremely well, as they are adding new servers.

Wouldn't that kinda be like an adult kicking a retarded infant in the head?

Depends I guess, if WAR subs drift below Eve or LOTRO, I'd imagine there would be a strong temptation to point that out.  MMO gamers are fickle but on a more personal level, I'd imagine CCP or Turbine would be ecstatic to pull ahead of WAR (with an older game) considering the often quoted figure of investment in WAR being somewhere under 100 million dollars.

This is Mark Jacobs we're talking about.  He said south of 100 million.  Knowing MJ the budget for WAR was actually 20 million.

As mentioned this is inaccurate. Although I can see where the confusion lies as there were several testing environments running concurrently (Elder Servers vs. Open Beta) but in beta I played all Tiers. Not that matters, the stuff that we commented on didn't get fixed and they nerfed the stuff that was working right before launch so...

AoC is actually kinda fun now, I checked it out for a month in Feb. Still not there yet, but as schild says it's moving upwards in quality. I doubt I'd resub but I can see it finding its level.

WAR has no place being compared to either LoTRO or EVE. Both are far higher quality and much better suited to the markets they want to serve. For all the shit WAR gets here I think it's important to remember a lot of us were enthusiastic about the game until Mark and whatshisface started following the Egotistical Compass of Magnetic Wrong.

Like others I didn't leave WAR for WoTLK. I didn't even buy WoTLK until Jan. when it was obvious that WAR was cratered. And even so, I left WoTLK months after as LoTRO (which I'd never played) suits me better for PvE gameplay.

No, WAR blew it plain and simple.

My bet is with new territories they will end Q1 with 225 - 275k subs worldwide.  Whether they can maintain that remains to be seen but so far Magic 8 Ball says "The Fuck? LOL."

EDIT: Not to say you were comparing WAR to LoTRO/EVE Arthur. My comment was more that having played all three I think that in todays market LoTRO and EVE deserve to have > WAR numbers. And it's noone's fault but Mythics at this point.

All aoc is missing is a good loot system, WAR needs a total remake.

Aside from all the obvious failures of the game, the one that pisses me off the most is the flight cut scene they make you watch every time you fly. Given they broke the world apart into multiple chunks, breaking any sense of there being a dynamic world, it's a slap to the face, or a turd on the chest. "Look, because our game is segmented and completely breaks your immersion, we'll compensate you with these shitty cut scenes of you flying into the distance. Or in the case of dwarves, on a fucking tard-copter"

I'm not sure if they can remake.  MJ sounds really, really tired of defending the game right about now.  Recent response defending a dev over there.  I think he's about to give up soon:


"In all fairness to Colin (who doesn't post regularly), I think you accidently misread what he said in regards to focus testing feedback.  If you were part of the PTS (or saw the feedback from it) when we tested this fix in 1.06 I think, feedback was very positive.  The feedback we've had since, especially in high load/latency situations as been different.  We wouldn't have put in that change originally if feedback on it was bad.  That's one of the reasons we desperately want people to get on to the PTS when we put up new versions so we can see how things will play under close to LIVE conditions.

In terms of the second part, casting lag in any MMO will exist if latency is horrible.  Even WoW, which handles this stuff very well, can lag at times if conditions are awful (my latency at home is a joke so I've seen this behavior in all games) but the problem is that in WAR, it doesn't happen just when conditions are awful and the team as Colin said, has been working on it.  Neither I nor Colin nor anyone is making any excuses for it but it is a very complicated issue that is exacerbated by the way some of our abilities work.  They are just as frustrated as some of the players but they continue to try to solve the problems.  In terms of why did we say it was fixed, unfortunately, we thought they were fixed but it has proved a bit more elusive than we hoped.     

In terms of cheating, well, even the OP's post did say that our client/server model worked very well as was secure and as long as the server continues to act as traffic cop, everything will be fine. 

I wish I could say that this was an easy issue or that our team wasn't up to the challenge of a tough issue but neither is true.  WAR's RvR nature and larger scale battles tends to make things a bit more challenging and when combined with an very complex ability system and the occassional moding/UI issue, it just has proven to take longer to get this to work for everybody all the time.  We need to do better and the team is working hard to do just that.  I know we'll get there and hopefully soon."

Mark

From his comments about 25 million minimum just to make release and 100 million needed to compete with WoW, I'd guess WAR was somewhere in the 55-65 range.  But quite a few senior people have left Mythic recently, so I suspect the real figure is widely known to those working in the industry.

But it doesn't matter, because he can't play both sides, if he hypes WAR prerelease as a serious mmo contenter with a budget of "south of 100 million", he just looks silly later on by saying WAR didn't really cost that much to make.  The same way he looks silly talking about subscriptions going up to 300,000 in 2009 when they previously said they had 800,000 registered users for War in late 2008.

"In all fairness to Colin (who doesn't post regularly), I think you accidently misread what he said ..."

So it's Colin's fault, err the reader's fault, anything but his shit game's fault.

I'm never on AIM, I'm on ICQ. ;) But yeah, sorry for leaving you hanging there. Haven't had much motivation to play anything at all lately (apart from The West, that is!), mostly I've just been trolling forums while watching a number of different TV-series. And idling in IRC. I'm on a up-swing again now, though! =P

No worries, I have SF4, KZ2 (to dabble in... :\), RE5 and Demon's Souls (on it's way), I'll live.

Five star drive, three star talent.

Funny how it bites you in the ass when a real problem shows up.  (And makes great message board fodder to insult people who are probably working hard but have idiot bosses spewing drivel.)

I'm just downloaded the EU trial client and their downloader crashed in an assertion. Oh well.

There's still bugs in the UI and at least the public quests in greenskin T1 are bugged. For examples, the giant with the bomb and squigs runs around, disappears, reappears and repeats the running. In the third phase, the dwarfs are not spawning so it is impossible to complete the PQ.

Also old UI bugs are still here as well. For example, if you enter a scenario while you have the PQ timer on your UI, the timer stays there even inside the scenario and makes it impossible to see the countdown and timer on the scenario itself.

Tier one is still pretty fun thought, despite all the crap. Loads of people zerging in RVR. Feels like good times at Tarren Mill. Makes me sad they still haven't polished the game. Wasted potential  :sad:

The first tier was VERY fun, especially at release.  By the middle of the second tier you'll wonder where the fun went.  By the third tier, you'll realize that you already have a job and quit.

I still contend that the Greenskin T1 is one of the most fun online gaming experiences I've had.  The Empire T1 wasn't shabby either.  The rest of the game... not so much. 

Ya Empire tier 1 was a good time.  As much as I bash the game I will give them that.  The Towns were cool.  The BOs were laid out so that you wanted to capture them, and each one flowed into the next.  The PQs made sense. 
By tier 3 they gave up. There's a town where it's just a hill with NPCs standing on it handing out quests.  Their BOs are just rocks in arbitrary places.  And their PQs are all versions of kill sthe same thirty guys, one will have kill thiry Rogue Pirates, the next one will have kill thirty Rebel Pirates.

Tier 1 and half of tier 2 being so fucking good is *exactly* why I bash the game so much.

For limited definitions of "good" too.  Putting key abilities for every class at level 7 is just irritating beyond belief.  About the third or fourth alt I created I was just angry as hell that I was going to have to grind through these stupid levels in order to open up key functionality for the class.

If it's already a grind just to get to level 7, then that's a game you really don't want to play.  Hell, that's why I don't play it.

It's funny because DAoC pulled the same huge exp increase coming out of beta, but it largely didn't impact subs too much because the only competition at the time was the even more grindy EQ.  The amount of hubris displayed by Jacobs thinking he could get away with the same chicanery a second time with the amount of competition there is in the market right now is simply mind boggling.

You can safely apply past tense to my comments.  I canceled WAR back in Nov, and nothing I've read since then has even hinted the game has reached a state where I would enjoy it.

Exactly how I feel.

It is fantastic how almost everyone had same experience regarding game dismissal, but I believe that unbalanced exp gain is just a tip of the iceberg, or maybe we just realized that game is not what was advertised for most part. Phrase 'War is everywhere' should be replaced with 'Oh my God it's full of flaws!'

Or, I'm completely on wrong track and misinterpreted all that WAR Newsletters and just bought wrong game.

I think the biggest flaw is that they force you to grind through a bunch of content without really introducing any new gameplay elements.  Tier 1 is a great introduction and draw to the game, but is only rewarded with repetition and pve.  Words cannot express how disappointed I was with this game. 

It went way downhill after Tier 1. That Empire/Chaos ORVR area of T1, the town, that was just awesome covered in awesomesauce. Fighting over the town and surrounding areas was fantastic. T2 would have been good too, but no one was fighting over those ORVR areas when I came through. T3... not so much. The ORVR areas, in particular the BO's were just generic, especially the BO's. Combine that with (at the time) no one using them, and the paucity of contiguous PVE content in each racial pairing for T3 and the game just drug on at an unbearable level.

Take T1 and add on to it and you have a great game. Scrap T3 onward.

Agreed. Coming from the table top background for the past 12-13 years I was so disappointed in the overall use of the IP in general. Dark Elves needed an Assassin or at least a Shade imho. High Elves should have had Wardancers (all you had to do was make an Elf Slayer for the most part with different skill sets and abilities, sigh). Hell, High Elves should have Dryads as well they are in the game... Sure with expansions they might go further on this but some of the things just drove me crazy. Stealth was completely fucked, shouldn't have it at all but if you did should be on Shadow Warriors and something like a Shade/Assassin. Witch Hunter with stealth? Really?

The sad thing is that you could have incorporated almost the entire IP using the DAOC model of three realms, game setup, end game, and content. Sure, you might have to make some strange bedfellows with the realms but it's doable. Then you have many more classes to put out there using many different mechanics pulled straight from the IP. Would you rather create something like WAR and flop or go with tride and true making DAOC2 using the Games Workshop IP?

I think the problem with your model is that Mythic proved in DAoC that they just weren't good at balancing a lot of classes for pvp.  Today's version of DAoC demonstrates this as classes are much more homogenized than they were at release. 

DaoC did sandbox pvp well.  PvE and class balance were miserable failures. 

That'd match what we've already discussed about diminishing the scope of the game. EvC T1 worked because it was small, so there was always attrition. Since T2 is already way too fucking big, it started falling apart.

My biggest issue with the game is probably more of a personal preference than anything else.  I personally like the idea that when I sneak up on someone and nail them in the back a couple of times, I expect them to die.  I expect the same to happen to me.  Maybe I would enjoy FPS group play better than "RvR".

It takes so freakin' long to kill anything in this game that it really saps all the fun out of it for me.  I like the idea of individual PVP viability.  I like the idea that if I jump wildly as a solo into a group of 5 toons that I might be able to take one or two of them out before I die.  The element of surprise is definitely gone with this game.  

As it stands, I finally went ahead and uninstalled this pile of steaming shit even though I still have about a month left on my initial 6 month sub.  

Out of curiosity, in your proposed scenario, what would happen if a group of 5 stealthers jumped a regular group of 5 mixed archetypes?

Stealth shouldn't be in pvp games.  Initiative is impossible to balance. 

Yes... I've said this a million times already.

Carnage.  Don't like stealth.

Stealth shouldn't be in hotkey driven games that are unquestionably archaic.

The problem isn't the stealth itself, but rather the results of a poorly designed combat system that has become the standard in MMOGs.

I disagree.  Stealth is a problem.  It's like being white in chess.  You ALWAYS get the first move and that initiative gives you a HUGE advantage.  Balancing that advantage is difficult.  In chess, white is always expected to win because they have initiative.

PlanetSide disagrees with you.

This game is still an oil drenched shit bird. Here's my experience with the 10 day trial.

Logged on my tier 2 white lion to get reacquainted with the game. You spawn in Altdorf, so I flew back to some area and wandered out into a RVR lake to get killed, at level 14, by a level 29 Witch Elf in about half a second. Oh well, it's an open rvr server - right?

I then look at the map and realize that when you hover over the PQ areas, it tells you if there is actually anyone there! I noticed that one nearby has 4 people at it currently, so I wandered over that way and I joined their open group. They were halfway through stage one when I joined. We fought through the rest of stage one, did stage two, and in stage three - which spawned some trolls or some shit, they both spawned in TREES and were not attackable. Great.

I logged off in disgust.

The next night, I log on my level 33 Archmage. I try to do the same thing as I did with the WL - find some PQs, but i cannot find a single one that has any activity. I see these huge crossed sword icons on top of the "fly here" zone icons, but when I fly there I don't see any action anywhere. It's confusing as hell.

I finally find some action, in fucking Dragonwake - of course. The only place for T4 action back when I quit, because you queued nonstop for that stupid fucking scenario involving picking up BOAT PIECES.

This time, though, there is actually some keep action. I join a big open warband and wander around, getting killed a few times. I finally make it to the right keep and I die out front, as a siege is taking place. It takes me a few times before I finally make it through to one of the posten doors without being fucking yo-yo'd but some lame ass Marauder.

Now I'm inside, so I get up in a perch and start healing my balls off. I'm a metrosexual elf who is a healer, that's what I do right? Wrong, the fucking client crashes no more than 5 minutes into me actually getting to the fucking keep.

What happens when I re-log in? I'm back at the warcamp!

Fuck this. This game is still garbage. I pity those who play it. No wonder they hide the unsubscribe link on the account management page. That's the only reason my account is still open as I type this. I can't find the goddamn unsubscribe button. I have ~6 days left to find it, at least. Dickholes.

Here ya go  :awesome_for_real: :

https://accounts.eamythic.com/

In a fit of boredom I also reinstalled and subed up for the 10 day trial. I havent had time to do anything but run around Altdorf on my level 31 WP. So far what I notice is that OH MY GOD it runs better. Before I was having major issues with FPS Chug. Now even with tons of people running around, I am getting smooth fast FPS. I hope it stays that way in PVP.

I think the failure in DAOC classes went deeper than just balance, it was the root design that was to blame. There were too many classes and not enough consistency in the design - for example, the acuity stat should have worked the same for anyone who cast spells, but it didn't. Their 'base class until level 5' design was largely responsible for this I think. They also ended up with incredibly shallow classes, mostly because they had too few spell lines split up among too many classes. A better game would have had maybe 18-20 classes total instead of the 44 or whatever they ended up with. Tank, melee dps, archer, caster, healer, special realm flavor hybrid (warden, thane, paladin, something like that.) That's all that any realm needed and would have made for much deeper classes. And yes I left stealthers out on purpose.

Anyway, offtopic rant but you made me think about it all over again.

Oh, you mean the monumentally successful Planetside? 

All joking aside, although they did many things right... I still think that granting invisibility to players is flawed in the context of a balanced pvp game. 

The most boneheaded original design decision in DAoC was the unbalanced number of classes per realm.  If I remember correctly, it was originally split 12/11/10 in favor of Albion.  The best decision they made was the three realm split.  I know that has its detractors, but I thought it made things much more interesting (and I played as an underdog Hib on one server as well as a zergling Alb on another).

So. What is the most overpowerd class in tier 1 right now ? I want to squezze sum fun out of this game and can't advance further during the trial.

Probably WE or Ironbreaker.  They all sort of seem the same in tier 1 though, really.

WP's can be pretty unkillable too, but they take a much more defensive role.

I'm there and that's where I was before but I still don't see it. Billing gives me the option to select payment method - CC or time card. Under subscriptions, update renewal it just lets me specify 1, 3, 6 month billing cycles. I don't see cancel anywhere.

The point of stealth in Planet Side is more about positioning than ganking people last I played.

I prefer Disciples over Warrior Priests.  Despite being almost identical, the Disciple felt a lot stronger.

Yeah, I was trying to focus on the classes that weren't completely boring.

With the proper setup and technique you could knife people to death before they had a chance to turn around and shoot (particularly amusing against snipers). Or you could nade them.

This is why I hate stealth.  Yes, it's fun for the person doing the attacking... but being on the receiving end is never fun. 

That didn't work in Albion's favor at all except perhaps in a population split way. Albion's classes, at least initially, were thinner and less interesting than the classes in other realms, mostly because they basically had the same number of power lines as anyone else, they were just divided up among more classes. Compare the cleric to the healer or druid, and you'll see what I mean.

From the support website:
To cancel your account, please log into the account management website.  Once the account screen loads, click on the red Cancel Subscription button for the correct product account.  Confirm your cancellation by clicking the Yes button.

Your account will still be active until the remaining subscription runs out.  Refunds will not be given on remaining subscription time.
+++

Me thinks you canceled previously, and are looking for the spiritual release of canceling yet again.  While I sympathize, I fear they will not oblige your urge.

Oh, I agree.  'In favor of' was just indicating that Albion had the 12.  Although it did give the Albs the initial population surge.

Well the realm with King Arthur and Merlin and crap vs. TUATHA DE NANANN probably played a role too.


/Hib
/Lived in a mushroom

See, I went Hib first exactly because of the Tuatha de Danann, but then I'm part Irish and have had an interest in that mythology for a long time.

I only went Hib because the people I played Mechwarrior 2 with suggested I go Hib if I wanted to play a Shield Tank, since Hib would be short of those.


They were right.


Otherwise I would've been Generic Knight in plate number 567821

I went Midgard cause like. They had the dwarves.

I would've been an Alb because of the highlanders, but Ingmar was already playing Midgard. And in the long run, I ended up with a huge fondness for Midgard, to the point where if a game came out where vikings were a side, I'd pick that. ASSUMING THEY LET GIRLS BE TANKS, DESTRUCTION.

Try this thread:
Unable to cancel account  (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=p2psupport&thread.id=1838)

Maybe that person can help.

I will be horrified but not surprised if their cancellation for the trial is: Press the Red button that won't even show up until your trial ends and your auto-subscription begins, thus getting a one-time forced biilling.

From my personal experience, I was able to cancel during the first day of the trial period.  It was, as noted, a red 'cancel' button.  I'm still able to play for the remainder of the 10 days if I wish. 

I had no problem cancelling either.  None at all. 

I wonder what the issue is?  Sorry to hear you're having trouble.

The game is Warhammer Online. I think the answer points to itself.

'jumping in wildly as solo' and expecting to take one or two out isn't a good thing to put in PVP game. It sounds like you might have better luck playing a grenadier in FPS shooters. Strike at Karkand C4-ing alley was my fondest memory of being reckless and still being effective cause medics would put you back in action so fast.

Strange, I can't get past lvl 5 or 6, the 3rd battleground (or whatever they are called) with retarded, non-communicating allies breaks be everytime.

If a game feels grindy at lvl 6, something is wrong.  :why_so_serious:

Especially if people keep saying that this is the best part...  :uhrr:

Which race?  Dwarf was painful, and Human only tolerable because I found a good RP group I gained several levels with.

All of them so far, haven't tried Dwarf yet.  :ye_gods:

DorfxOrc are the better pve ones. HExDE is unfinished trash. ExC has the best RvR area.

I found the game started to really drag once I got a few levels into T2, but really most people here started experiencing the pain in T3 reportedly.  So I don't know.

The empire/chaos lands were the best imo.  I liked the early greenskin quests, but found it frustrating with all the mountains and valleys that made travel so slow.  The elf lands were just, uggh.

In order for that to happen everything else being equal you'd need to either have 5x the health or 5x the damage output of people you "jump wildly". Or some mix of these advantages leading to similar effect. Simply so you can last long enough to get the kill(s).

That's not really liking the idea of individual PvP viability but rather liking the idea of being the star in your personal movie, with other people playing secondary roles. The individual PvP viability is more in being on equal footing with another individual, rather than being complete cannon fodder because that other guy has 5x the health or damage output.

You can have what you like in a single player game or in the PvE where the foozles don't get their feelings hurt and are made individually weaker for this very purpose, but in the MMO where every of those five guys you "widly jump" pays the same subscription fee, they expect similar level of strength, not 1/5th of it. And so the viability of jumping gets limited to similar numbers. If you're alone, well, you better make sure the guy you're jumping doesn't have a friend ready to jump you in turn.

Having never played this game and just being made aware of the trial i deigned to play it. Im not going to wax poetical on specifics so ill just give a brief summary. I found the game very disappointing and after around 5 hours i had no desire to log back in. I completely missed whatever the "hook" was supposed to be and found it to boring very quickly.

Strangely i also found the game to look aesthetically ass. In WoW the first time entering a major city i was vastly impressed with it. In WHO at no point was did i feel impressed or "immersed" in the environment at all. Im not sure if im viewing WoW with rose tinted glasses or just did not reach that point in WHO. Is the lack of being immersed something others noticed? Feeling "involved" in a setting is a massive requirement for me in any game and i have never "role played". The lack of that sensation pretty much aborted my attempt to play it before i started.

I had the exact same experience as you did.  I don't think I got past level 16 before I just couldn't take it anymore.  I can't remember for sure as it was a pretty easy decision to make.  

My bright wizard (orginal character was a dwarf eng) was made when I was kind of bored and it was late; I liked the PVE so much more that I stuck with it. Too bad it all turned to garbage in the tier 2 content.  Whoever coded the monster behavior/pathing should never get a job in this industry again.
 

If WAR harnessed the fun of levels 9-11, the game would be a reasonable success. 

Remove the grind.  Remove all the cc.  Remove the worthless and boring pve.  Remove levels 1-8, 12-19, 22-29, and 32-38.

You sir, are a terrorist.

That is so  :awesome_for_real: that we can't possibly go up from there.

That line gave me more laughter than the entirety of my time in WAR.

You win the thread.

You used the forbidden numbers. I'mma screenshot this and parade it in the interweb. (or was it intentional) Either way:  :why_so_serious:

He cut out the word "levels" from my quote.  It made it funnier... so it's allowed.

Ok, it took me this long to figure out what the hell you guys are laughing about.  :uhrr:


 :awesome_for_real:

Make sure you use Itto's pic for it too.

Just got through playing the trial up to rank9/ren8, I may play a little bit longer but it's not grabbing me. Just going to throw out random thoughts.

For the life of me, I don't understand how you can spend double-digit millions on a game and it still look so -bland.- I'm not a huge graphics guy, but the lack of something like LOTRO's environmental 'haze' that softens everything, or a distinctive pop fantasy art style like WOW, is really noticeable, especially compared with what else is out there.

I don't think I read a single piece of quest text after the first hour. I don't necessarily know why. But one thing that really stuck out to me is that since you've got 24 fucking classes, there's no way to make any sort of 'individualized' experience for each class. That was something that really jumped out at me about LOTRO and, to  a lesser extent, WOW and the EQs... the individual class quests where you really 'get' what you're doing.

Also, I think a good bit of it is just information overload. When you kick into the game, you're confronted with -massive- amounts of lore and background in tons of different areas, especially if you go straight to PvP. There's something to be said for controlling the flow of info that the player gets. I mean, how many people have been crying out on Internet forums for more lore in recent MMOs? For that matter, I think it's better to let your fans be a little deterministic about how your world grows up. And the approach that the original EQ took, to go lore-light and let the players come to their own conclusions about the content, is, I think, still a valid option.

I'm not so sure that "straight to RVR!" is that great of an idea. I don't mind taking a night or two to get the feel of my class.

Does everything have a goddamn meter? I've never seen so many progression paths and ranks and bars and things to fill up in my entire playing experience.

And, yeah, even in the T1 experience the AI and pathing are, seriously, barely reaching 10-year-old standards.

I've really got to agree with the subject heading of this thread. I played Tabula Rasa for far longer than I'll play this one and had a good bit of fun for a while; I even gave Auto Assault a few nights because destructible terrain is cool. There's just no cool points about this game, other than a couple of gee whiz moments about public quests.

I think this game will probably live longer than it should because 1.) the marketing has actually been quite good, and 2.) with the economy in the shitter, I'm pretty sure the tax benefits that EA could get from shitcanning it would be minimal. If this game was released in a positive economic climate, I'm not sure it would live outside a year.

Been said to death, but yeah. That applies to racial pairing also. Example - f you're an elf, and go to the dwarf/greenskin pairing, then as far as the quests are concerned, you're a dwarf. Pretty much a carryover from where you could level up just through doing your own pairing (and were therefore expected to) - and became ridiculous when the XP rates were nerfed.

<--- always wants more lore. I think the one thing that Mythic got completely right in this game was the Tome of Knowledge and I wish all the MMOs I played had something like it.

That said, the deterministic thing can be cool too, but it isn't really going to happen for a game based on an existing IP like this, and GW isn't exactly known for being fast and loose with what they let people do with their IP.