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Author Topic: State of the game [Fucked]  (Read 36946 times)
Tannhauser
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Posts: 4436


Reply #175 on: March 19, 2009, 02:50:44 PM

The first tier was VERY fun, especially at release.  By the middle of the second tier you'll wonder where the fun went.  By the third tier, you'll realize that you already have a job and quit.

Exactly how I feel.
Luxthor
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Posts: 1


Reply #176 on: March 20, 2009, 02:37:02 AM

The first tier was VERY fun, especially at release.  By the middle of the second tier you'll wonder where the fun went.  By the third tier, you'll realize that you already have a job and quit.

It is fantastic how almost everyone had same experience regarding game dismissal, but I believe that unbalanced exp gain is just a tip of the iceberg, or maybe we just realized that game is not what was advertised for most part. Phrase 'War is everywhere' should be replaced with 'Oh my God it's full of flaws!'

Or, I'm completely on wrong track and misinterpreted all that WAR Newsletters and just bought wrong game.

--= hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia =--
Nebu
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Posts: 17089


Reply #177 on: March 20, 2009, 05:08:30 AM

I think the biggest flaw is that they force you to grind through a bunch of content without really introducing any new gameplay elements.  Tier 1 is a great introduction and draw to the game, but is only rewarded with repetition and pve.  Words cannot express how disappointed I was with this game. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 37398

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #178 on: March 20, 2009, 07:03:02 AM

It went way downhill after Tier 1. That Empire/Chaos ORVR area of T1, the town, that was just awesome covered in awesomesauce. Fighting over the town and surrounding areas was fantastic. T2 would have been good too, but no one was fighting over those ORVR areas when I came through. T3... not so much. The ORVR areas, in particular the BO's were just generic, especially the BO's. Combine that with (at the time) no one using them, and the paucity of contiguous PVE content in each racial pairing for T3 and the game just drug on at an unbearable level.

Take T1 and add on to it and you have a great game. Scrap T3 onward.

Bismallah
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Posts: 322


Reply #179 on: March 20, 2009, 07:07:26 AM

Words cannot express how disappointed I was with this game. 

Agreed. Coming from the table top background for the past 12-13 years I was so disappointed in the overall use of the IP in general. Dark Elves needed an Assassin or at least a Shade imho. High Elves should have had Wardancers (all you had to do was make an Elf Slayer for the most part with different skill sets and abilities, sigh). Hell, High Elves should have Dryads as well they are in the game... Sure with expansions they might go further on this but some of the things just drove me crazy. Stealth was completely fucked, shouldn't have it at all but if you did should be on Shadow Warriors and something like a Shade/Assassin. Witch Hunter with stealth? Really?

The sad thing is that you could have incorporated almost the entire IP using the DAOC model of three realms, game setup, end game, and content. Sure, you might have to make some strange bedfellows with the realms but it's doable. Then you have many more classes to put out there using many different mechanics pulled straight from the IP. Would you rather create something like WAR and flop or go with tride and true making DAOC2 using the Games Workshop IP?
Nebu
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Posts: 17089


Reply #180 on: March 20, 2009, 07:53:32 AM

I think the problem with your model is that Mythic proved in DAoC that they just weren't good at balancing a lot of classes for pvp.  Today's version of DAoC demonstrates this as classes are much more homogenized than they were at release. 

DaoC did sandbox pvp well.  PvE and class balance were miserable failures. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Hindenburg
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1854

Itto


Reply #181 on: March 20, 2009, 07:58:29 AM

It went way downhill after Tier 1. That Empire/Chaos ORVR area of T1, the town, that was just awesome covered in awesomesauce. Fighting over the town and surrounding areas was fantastic. T2 would have been good too, but no one was fighting over those ORVR areas when I came through. T3... not so much. The ORVR areas, in particular the BO's were just generic, especially the BO's. Combine that with (at the time) no one using them, and the paucity of contiguous PVE content in each racial pairing for T3 and the game just drug on at an unbearable level.

Take T1 and add on to it and you have a great game. Scrap T3 onward.

That'd match what we've already discussed about diminishing the scope of the game. EvC T1 worked because it was small, so there was always attrition. Since T2 is already way too fucking big, it started falling apart.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
ghost
The Dentist
Posts: 10476


Reply #182 on: March 20, 2009, 08:01:15 AM

My biggest issue with the game is probably more of a personal preference than anything else.  I personally like the idea that when I sneak up on someone and nail them in the back a couple of times, I expect them to die.  I expect the same to happen to me.  Maybe I would enjoy FPS group play better than "RvR".

It takes so freakin' long to kill anything in this game that it really saps all the fun out of it for me.  I like the idea of individual PVP viability.  I like the idea that if I jump wildly as a solo into a group of 5 toons that I might be able to take one or two of them out before I die.  The element of surprise is definitely gone with this game.  

As it stands, I finally went ahead and uninstalled this pile of steaming shit even though I still have about a month left on my initial 6 month sub.  
Hindenburg
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Posts: 1854

Itto


Reply #183 on: March 20, 2009, 08:05:12 AM

I like the idea that if I jump wildly as a solo into a group of 5 toons that I might be able to take one or two of them out before I die.

Out of curiosity, in your proposed scenario, what would happen if a group of 5 stealthers jumped a regular group of 5 mixed archetypes?

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Nebu
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Posts: 17089


Reply #184 on: March 20, 2009, 08:10:54 AM

Stealth shouldn't be in pvp games.  Initiative is impossible to balance. 

Yes... I've said this a million times already.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
ghost
The Dentist
Posts: 10476


Reply #185 on: March 20, 2009, 08:22:28 AM

I like the idea that if I jump wildly as a solo into a group of 5 toons that I might be able to take one or two of them out before I die.

Out of curiosity, in your proposed scenario, what would happen if a group of 5 stealthers jumped a regular group of 5 mixed archetypes?


Carnage.  Don't like stealth.
schild
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Posts: 54458


WWW
Reply #186 on: March 20, 2009, 08:30:19 AM

Stealth shouldn't be in pvp games.  Initiative is impossible to balance. 

Yes... I've said this a million times already.
Stealth shouldn't be in hotkey driven games that are unquestionably archaic.

The problem isn't the stealth itself, but rather the results of a poorly designed combat system that has become the standard in MMOGs.
Nebu
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Posts: 17089


Reply #187 on: March 20, 2009, 10:31:00 AM

I disagree.  Stealth is a problem.  It's like being white in chess.  You ALWAYS get the first move and that initiative gives you a HUGE advantage.  Balancing that advantage is difficult.  In chess, white is always expected to win because they have initiative.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Trippy
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Posts: 20305


Reply #188 on: March 20, 2009, 10:51:14 AM

Stealth shouldn't be in pvp games.  Initiative is impossible to balance. 

Yes... I've said this a million times already.
PlanetSide disagrees with you.
Nija
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Posts: 2090


Reply #189 on: March 20, 2009, 10:53:56 AM

This game is still an oil drenched shit bird. Here's my experience with the 10 day trial.

Logged on my tier 2 white lion to get reacquainted with the game. You spawn in Altdorf, so I flew back to some area and wandered out into a RVR lake to get killed, at level 14, by a level 29 Witch Elf in about half a second. Oh well, it's an open rvr server - right?

I then look at the map and realize that when you hover over the PQ areas, it tells you if there is actually anyone there! I noticed that one nearby has 4 people at it currently, so I wandered over that way and I joined their open group. They were halfway through stage one when I joined. We fought through the rest of stage one, did stage two, and in stage three - which spawned some trolls or some shit, they both spawned in TREES and were not attackable. Great.

I logged off in disgust.

The next night, I log on my level 33 Archmage. I try to do the same thing as I did with the WL - find some PQs, but i cannot find a single one that has any activity. I see these huge crossed sword icons on top of the "fly here" zone icons, but when I fly there I don't see any action anywhere. It's confusing as hell.

I finally find some action, in fucking Dragonwake - of course. The only place for T4 action back when I quit, because you queued nonstop for that stupid fucking scenario involving picking up BOAT PIECES.

This time, though, there is actually some keep action. I join a big open warband and wander around, getting killed a few times. I finally make it to the right keep and I die out front, as a siege is taking place. It takes me a few times before I finally make it through to one of the posten doors without being fucking yo-yo'd but some lame ass Marauder.

Now I'm inside, so I get up in a perch and start healing my balls off. I'm a metrosexual elf who is a healer, that's what I do right? Wrong, the fucking client crashes no more than 5 minutes into me actually getting to the fucking keep.

What happens when I re-log in? I'm back at the warcamp!

Fuck this. This game is still garbage. I pity those who play it. No wonder they hide the unsubscribe link on the account management page. That's the only reason my account is still open as I type this. I can't find the goddamn unsubscribe button. I have ~6 days left to find it, at least. Dickholes.
Hawkbit
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Like a Klansman in the ghetto.


Reply #190 on: March 20, 2009, 11:14:51 AM

Morfiend
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wants a greif tittle


Reply #191 on: March 20, 2009, 11:15:06 AM

In a fit of boredom I also reinstalled and subed up for the 10 day trial. I havent had time to do anything but run around Altdorf on my level 31 WP. So far what I notice is that OH MY GOD it runs better. Before I was having major issues with FPS Chug. Now even with tons of people running around, I am getting smooth fast FPS. I hope it stays that way in PVP.
Ingmar
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Posts: 19280

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Reply #192 on: March 20, 2009, 11:17:57 AM

I think the problem with your model is that Mythic proved in DAoC that they just weren't good at balancing a lot of classes for pvp.  Today's version of DAoC demonstrates this as classes are much more homogenized than they were at release. 

DaoC did sandbox pvp well.  PvE and class balance were miserable failures. 

I think the failure in DAOC classes went deeper than just balance, it was the root design that was to blame. There were too many classes and not enough consistency in the design - for example, the acuity stat should have worked the same for anyone who cast spells, but it didn't. Their 'base class until level 5' design was largely responsible for this I think. They also ended up with incredibly shallow classes, mostly because they had too few spell lines split up among too many classes. A better game would have had maybe 18-20 classes total instead of the 44 or whatever they ended up with. Tank, melee dps, archer, caster, healer, special realm flavor hybrid (warden, thane, paladin, something like that.) That's all that any realm needed and would have made for much deeper classes. And yes I left stealthers out on purpose.

Anyway, offtopic rant but you made me think about it all over again.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Nebu
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Posts: 17089


Reply #193 on: March 20, 2009, 11:39:01 AM

PlanetSide disagrees with you.

Oh, you mean the monumentally successful Planetside? 

All joking aside, although they did many things right... I still think that granting invisibility to players is flawed in the context of a balanced pvp game. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Nevermore
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Posts: 4740


Reply #194 on: March 20, 2009, 11:46:00 AM

I think the problem with your model is that Mythic proved in DAoC that they just weren't good at balancing a lot of classes for pvp.  Today's version of DAoC demonstrates this as classes are much more homogenized than they were at release. 

DaoC did sandbox pvp well.  PvE and class balance were miserable failures. 

I think the failure in DAOC classes went deeper than just balance, it was the root design that was to blame. There were too many classes and not enough consistency in the design - for example, the acuity stat should have worked the same for anyone who cast spells, but it didn't. Their 'base class until level 5' design was largely responsible for this I think. They also ended up with incredibly shallow classes, mostly because they had too few spell lines split up among too many classes. A better game would have had maybe 18-20 classes total instead of the 44 or whatever they ended up with. Tank, melee dps, archer, caster, healer, special realm flavor hybrid (warden, thane, paladin, something like that.) That's all that any realm needed and would have made for much deeper classes. And yes I left stealthers out on purpose.

Anyway, offtopic rant but you made me think about it all over again.

The most boneheaded original design decision in DAoC was the unbalanced number of classes per realm.  If I remember correctly, it was originally split 12/11/10 in favor of Albion.  The best decision they made was the three realm split.  I know that has its detractors, but I thought it made things much more interesting (and I played as an underdog Hib on one server as well as a zergling Alb on another).

Over and out.
Der Helm
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Posts: 3904


Reply #195 on: March 20, 2009, 11:59:16 AM

So. What is the most overpowerd class in tier 1 right now ? I want to squezze sum fun out of this game and can't advance further during the trial.

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
ghost
The Dentist
Posts: 10476


Reply #196 on: March 20, 2009, 12:11:45 PM

So. What is the most overpowerd class in tier 1 right now ? I want to squezze sum fun out of this game and can't advance further during the trial.

Probably WE or Ironbreaker.  They all sort of seem the same in tier 1 though, really.
Nebu
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Posts: 17089


Reply #197 on: March 20, 2009, 12:12:43 PM

WP's can be pretty unkillable too, but they take a much more defensive role.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Nija
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Posts: 2090


Reply #198 on: March 20, 2009, 12:14:44 PM


I'm there and that's where I was before but I still don't see it. Billing gives me the option to select payment method - CC or time card. Under subscriptions, update renewal it just lets me specify 1, 3, 6 month billing cycles. I don't see cancel anywhere.
Lantyssa
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Posts: 20848


Reply #199 on: March 20, 2009, 12:17:08 PM

PlanetSide disagrees with you.
All joking aside, although they did many things right... I still think that granting invisibility to players is flawed in the context of a balanced pvp game. 
The point of stealth in Planet Side is more about positioning than ganking people last I played.

WP's can be pretty unkillable too, but they take a much more defensive role.
I prefer Disciples over Warrior Priests.  Despite being almost identical, the Disciple felt a lot stronger.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
ghost
The Dentist
Posts: 10476


Reply #200 on: March 20, 2009, 12:17:43 PM

WP's can be pretty unkillable too, but they take a much more defensive role.

Yeah, I was trying to focus on the classes that weren't completely boring.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 20305


Reply #201 on: March 20, 2009, 12:23:26 PM

PlanetSide disagrees with you.
All joking aside, although they did many things right... I still think that granting invisibility to players is flawed in the context of a balanced pvp game. 
The point of stealth in Planet Side is more about positioning than ganking people last I played.
With the proper setup and technique you could knife people to death before they had a chance to turn around and shoot (particularly amusing against snipers). Or you could nade them.
Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17089


Reply #202 on: March 20, 2009, 12:30:59 PM

With the proper setup and technique you could knife people to death before they had a chance to turn around and shoot (particularly amusing against snipers). Or you could nade them.

This is why I hate stealth.  Yes, it's fun for the person doing the attacking... but being on the receiving end is never fun. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Ingmar
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Posts: 19280

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Reply #203 on: March 20, 2009, 12:52:31 PM

I think the problem with your model is that Mythic proved in DAoC that they just weren't good at balancing a lot of classes for pvp.  Today's version of DAoC demonstrates this as classes are much more homogenized than they were at release. 

DaoC did sandbox pvp well.  PvE and class balance were miserable failures. 

I think the failure in DAOC classes went deeper than just balance, it was the root design that was to blame. There were too many classes and not enough consistency in the design - for example, the acuity stat should have worked the same for anyone who cast spells, but it didn't. Their 'base class until level 5' design was largely responsible for this I think. They also ended up with incredibly shallow classes, mostly because they had too few spell lines split up among too many classes. A better game would have had maybe 18-20 classes total instead of the 44 or whatever they ended up with. Tank, melee dps, archer, caster, healer, special realm flavor hybrid (warden, thane, paladin, something like that.) That's all that any realm needed and would have made for much deeper classes. And yes I left stealthers out on purpose.

Anyway, offtopic rant but you made me think about it all over again.

The most boneheaded original design decision in DAoC was the unbalanced number of classes per realm.  If I remember correctly, it was originally split 12/11/10 in favor of Albion.  The best decision they made was the three realm split.  I know that has its detractors, but I thought it made things much more interesting (and I played as an underdog Hib on one server as well as a zergling Alb on another).

That didn't work in Albion's favor at all except perhaps in a population split way. Albion's classes, at least initially, were thinner and less interesting than the classes in other realms, mostly because they basically had the same number of power lines as anyone else, they were just divided up among more classes. Compare the cleric to the healer or druid, and you'll see what I mean.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
March
Terracotta Army
Posts: 477


Reply #204 on: March 20, 2009, 01:08:35 PM


I'm there and that's where I was before but I still don't see it. Billing gives me the option to select payment method - CC or time card. Under subscriptions, update renewal it just lets me specify 1, 3, 6 month billing cycles. I don't see cancel anywhere.

From the support website:
To cancel your account, please log into the account management website.  Once the account screen loads, click on the red Cancel Subscription button for the correct product account.  Confirm your cancellation by clicking the Yes button.

Your account will still be active until the remaining subscription runs out.  Refunds will not be given on remaining subscription time.
+++

Me thinks you canceled previously, and are looking for the spiritual release of canceling yet again.  While I sympathize, I fear they will not oblige your urge.
Nevermore
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4740


Reply #205 on: March 20, 2009, 01:12:58 PM

The most boneheaded original design decision in DAoC was the unbalanced number of classes per realm.  If I remember correctly, it was originally split 12/11/10 in favor of Albion.  The best decision they made was the three realm split.  I know that has its detractors, but I thought it made things much more interesting (and I played as an underdog Hib on one server as well as a zergling Alb on another).

That didn't work in Albion's favor at all except perhaps in a population split way. Albion's classes, at least initially, were thinner and less interesting than the classes in other realms, mostly because they basically had the same number of power lines as anyone else, they were just divided up among more classes. Compare the cleric to the healer or druid, and you'll see what I mean.

Oh, I agree.  'In favor of' was just indicating that Albion had the 12.  Although it did give the Albs the initial population surge.

Over and out.
Fordel
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Posts: 8292


Reply #206 on: March 20, 2009, 02:19:59 PM

Well the realm with King Arthur and Merlin and crap vs. TUATHA DE NANANN probably played a role too.


/Hib
/Lived in a mushroom

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Nevermore
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Posts: 4740


Reply #207 on: March 20, 2009, 02:48:08 PM

See, I went Hib first exactly because of the Tuatha de Danann, but then I'm part Irish and have had an interest in that mythology for a long time.

Over and out.
Fordel
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Posts: 8292


Reply #208 on: March 20, 2009, 04:39:24 PM

I only went Hib because the people I played Mechwarrior 2 with suggested I go Hib if I wanted to play a Shield Tank, since Hib would be short of those.


They were right.


Otherwise I would've been Generic Knight in plate number 567821

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Ingmar
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Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #209 on: March 20, 2009, 04:54:15 PM

I went Midgard cause like. They had the dwarves.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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