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Author Topic: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool  (Read 158785 times)
Fordel
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Reply #560 on: December 21, 2010, 02:48:35 AM

This is incredibly, incredibly nitpicky. Even if you make the best game in the world the LAST thing you want to do is go home and play it in your off-hours. There's nothing "questionable" about those tweets. And the VN boards reek of the sort of entitlement only nerds can muster.

I'm willing to bet the WoW Devs play WoW in their off hours.  why so serious?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Lum
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Hellfire Games


Reply #561 on: December 21, 2010, 01:49:19 PM

Depends on what you're saying is questionable.

Should she be using her personal Twitter feed to post official news/updates? No. (I don't know if she does or not, but that's not something I'd ever recommend. You Are Not Your Employer.)

Should she not play any games besides the one she works on? Come on. Seriously?
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #562 on: December 21, 2010, 01:57:56 PM

The OP

Personal life and work life separate, yeah yeah I get it, but there's a difference between having to dig for this kind of information and "killing people in the face" with your 51 days in WoW.

&

I said it was questionable because I saw the potential to give the players something to moan about for no good reason, not because I believe devs shouldn't play games.

Good, we are in complete agreement.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #563 on: December 21, 2010, 02:10:17 PM

https://twitter.com/cgouskos/status/578125838684160

4:00 PM Nov 5th via web
Quote
The Verminous Horde: http://bit.ly/dDwf2M

https://twitter.com/MythicNews/status/576767605608448
3:54 PM Nov 5th via twitterfeed
Quote
Producer's Letter - October 2010 http://bit.ly/9pzcpE

Mythic News beat her by 6 minutes, but on actually mentioning the Verminous Horde by name instead of buried in the producers letter, she beat MythicNews by 8 days

Maybe that's a fluke, it was the first news item I went for.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 03:30:31 PM by Arthur_Parker »
Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #564 on: December 21, 2010, 04:25:49 PM

Personal life and work life separate, yeah yeah I get it, but there's a difference between having to dig for this kind of information and "killing people in the face" with your 51 days in WoW.

I have over 900 days /played in WoW according to my Raptr profile, which is linked off my blog. Does this mean I am killing people in the face who play CoH or Aion?

If your argument is solely "pimping your game's patch notes in your personal social networking profile is inappropriate", I can get behind that. But who cares if she plays WoW (for, mind you, far less than I have, and I am anything but a hardcore player). Demanding that she not play a competing game is insanely juvenile.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 04:28:48 PM by Lum »
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #565 on: December 21, 2010, 04:46:46 PM

What argument?  I agreed with you completely, "questionable" was entirely it, it might have been "oh oh", "trouble ahead", "that's not a great idea", "Danger, Will Robinson" or "ayup" (Yorkshire slang).

Demanding that she not play a competing game is insanely juvenile.

Yes it is, I'd link you the insanely juvenile vn thread that her twitter update spawned, so you could see exactly how juvenile the comments were, but vn felt the need to actually delete it.  I've said it before and meant it, players are perfectly predictable.

Edit to add.

Turns out the official forums have picked it up.

Quote
plays WoW ey... that explains why nobody has heard from her in months. i think shes working for WoW now and is secretly feeding mythic these shoddy ideas which are killing WAR even quicker
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 05:03:32 PM by Arthur_Parker »
Tannhauser
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Reply #566 on: December 21, 2010, 05:07:48 PM

Yes...WoW's 'shoddy ideas' will kill WAR... Ohhhhh, I see.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #567 on: December 21, 2010, 05:10:11 PM

Still on 1st page, my favourite so far.

Quote
I read somewhere there was originally supposed to be 6 cities. But the goblin city was designed with tiny doors that orks could not fit through so they scrapped the whole idea.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #568 on: December 21, 2010, 05:23:25 PM

Andy's twitter account seems to have disappeared.  Just because I don't like to think I'm a complete dick I'll explain something, I thought the xbox tweets were a bad idea weeks ago, I along with many others, I'm sure, was following for Mythic news.  

But it's like a minor thing so I didn't post it here, I saw the vn thread with the WoW link and reposted here with screen grabs because the logical thing to do is delete the tweets or the giantbomb profile.  I didn't expect vn to delete the thread, that almost never works because it pisses people off, it's never been my intention ever (I hope) to make anyone's personal life more difficult.
Nebu
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Reply #569 on: December 21, 2010, 05:27:20 PM

Begs to question if WoW and EvE are the MMOs of choice for non-Blizzard game devs?  If so, how come they fail to learn anything from their own gaming experience.  Is WoW really the result of such a significant investment or is it that there devs just have done a better job at learning what the gaming population wants from their product?

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #570 on: December 21, 2010, 06:08:51 PM

Warhammer Alliance (Server forum) starting to pick it up

Andy just renamed his twitter account and removed Mythic from the title.
Modern Angel
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Reply #571 on: December 21, 2010, 06:26:13 PM

I want to punch the first poster in that WHA thread in the face.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #572 on: December 21, 2010, 06:29:39 PM

Danger, Will Robinson!

Trailer is...... interesting.

Edit, oh it's from before he was hired by Mythic.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 06:55:24 PM by Arthur_Parker »
Lantyssa
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Reply #573 on: December 21, 2010, 07:23:13 PM

It's the end of the WAR as we know it.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #574 on: December 22, 2010, 04:22:47 AM

EDIT: Reread a bit and people are using her personal twitter feed as a primary news source for Mythic news? Fuck them, that's their damage. Chrissake, that's her personal twitter feed. Mythic has a very separate, very official twitter feed quite apart from this. This is actively making me angry.

That's a good point, I went back and checked why I was following her twitter account, I couldn't remember why I had the impression it was for news.

1.3.4 Producer's Letter - Carrie Gouskos 02/24/2010

Quote
To start with, you should absolutely expect to hear from me at least once a month via the producerís letter. I may not have breaking news, but I do want to check in and let you know the general vibe of the team. Additionally, weíll be upping communication via your popular social-media outlets, such as Twitter (Community team note: you can follow Carrieís Twitter at http/twitter.com/cgouskos) as well as greater and earlier insights into our features via not-so-disguised threads on our official forums.

Turns out it was via a recommendation from the Warhammer Herald.

And you fucking people wonder why game devs have disdain for their audience.

That's not such a good point.

Ok, I'm aware I'm belabouring the point here, that's not because this is an important issue, it's because several people told me I was wrong to even mention this.  But at this point I expect even Lum is facepalming, unless his employer somehow has been linking his twitter feed/blog from company to customer information releases (Again I might be caught out there, I haven't checked).
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 04:48:00 AM by Arthur_Parker »
ghost
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Reply #575 on: December 22, 2010, 10:50:34 AM

But who cares if she plays WoW (for, mind you, far less than I have, and I am anything but a hardcore player). Demanding that she not play a competing game is insanely juvenile.

I personally would rather those folks did play WoW and EvE and many other games.  You gotta know what your competition is doing right. 
Lantyssa
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Reply #576 on: December 22, 2010, 11:21:13 AM

They play, but never learn the right lessons.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
KallDrexx
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Reply #577 on: December 22, 2010, 11:29:54 AM

I personally would rather those folks did play WoW and EvE and many other games.  You gotta know what your competition is doing right. 

Playing other games is good (even if they aren't direct competitors) because it helps keep you in tune with what makes games fun and what people enjoy about games.  However, that has to be balanced with playing your own game, because developing a game and playing a game gives two *very* different perspectives on a game, and the latter is the only perspective that matters in the end.
fuser
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Reply #578 on: December 22, 2010, 11:39:53 AM

But who cares if she plays WoW (for, mind you, far less than I have, and I am anything but a hardcore player). Demanding that she not play a competing game is insanely juvenile.

I don't think Arthur could care less about what any developer plays, how much, or if they troll on live jasmine. He's highlighted some thing that bothers me; that any company or employee would allow a personal account to be used for any voice or news of the company. It seems counter productive not to have a warhammer_generic_pr account or a blog and feed everything via it. In this situation as AP linked Mythic is directly linking to her feed from a newsletter. What happens if the relationship goes south, there's exposure that no IT department could "secure" in a timely manner. Now they have a validated news source outside of their control that their CR validated by posting it in an official newsletter  swamp poop

With new social networking people totally ignore the separation of personal and work data.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #579 on: December 22, 2010, 02:12:08 PM

Not that it matters what I think but I criticised Paul for not playing it, I'm hardly likely to go 180 degrees and say Carrie shouldn't play it.  

The WAR players seem to be in a bit of an information vacuum at the minute on the future of the game.  As an ex player I was interested in Skaven, I read a few interviews about them, glanced over some patch notes, even watched a video, it really appeared to me that further info was being teased to stretch things out but reluctantly delivered.  For all that effort I learnt the most in a post a few pages back when someone here summed the changes up in a few sentences.  Not that I'm that bothered about the detail of WAR game changes anymore, but that would annoy me as a player.

But put this is context, Carrie is in charge, her introductory producers letter says "To start with, you should absolutely expect to hear from me at least once a month via the producerís letter. I may not have breaking news, but I do want to check in and let you know the general vibe of the team. Additionally, weíll be upping communication via your popular social-media outlets, such as Twitter (Community team note: you can follow Carrieís Twitter at http/twitter.com/cgouskos) as well as greater and earlier insights into our features via not-so-disguised threads on our official forums."

More communication, at least once a month, twitter, here's Carrie's twitter.  WARHerald 2,362 followers, cgouskos 2,047 followers, cgouskos is meant to be a personal account?

Now imagine actually being a WAR player hoping for some of this, at least once a month, communication using twitter and seeing xbox, xbox, xbox, xbox, then link to 51 days in WoW.

http://www.weritsblog.com/2009/09/interview-with-warhammers-carrie.html

Quote
Werit: Any plans to branch out Realm War into services such as RSS or Twitter?

Carrie Gouskos: Why yes! RSS has been on the top of our to-do list for awhile, but we just didnít get to it. Twitter is an interesting beast, Iíve been using it for awhile now and while I think itís great, I think a lot of companies who try to use it for marketing end up using it in the wrong way. Currently we just have individual staff accounts that arenít really official, and one official account that gives Herald news. And I kind of like it like that.

It isn't a personal account, it's a staff account (that isn't really official) hmm.  James and Andy both had Mythic in their twitter names, James still does, all three had full job descriptions, Andy has very recently dropped Mythic from his name, deleted his employment info and added a disclaimer about it being a personal account.

Twitter is new, amateur hour on something new is forgiveable to some extent, Andy is on the ball the other's aren't.  Josh is still listed in the Mythic twitter group, Carrie isn't even in it, not because it's her personal account but because they obviously just stopped updating it when they lost interest.  Bit like WAR really.

And now for some German bitching.

Edit to correct, Andy still has Community Guy for BioWare on twitter in addition to the personal disclaimer, twitter was down earlier so I went from memory.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 03:48:35 PM by Arthur_Parker »
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #580 on: December 23, 2010, 11:50:33 AM

http://twitter.com/cgouskos

Quote from: cgouskos about 5 hours ago via web
Dinner with @adegen who made a compelling argument why I should come back to WoW. My counter: Gave my account away last year. Stalemate.

 DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS
IainC
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Wargaming.net


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Reply #581 on: December 23, 2010, 11:53:24 AM

I think she's just trolling you now AP.

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

SerialForeigner Photography.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #582 on: December 23, 2010, 11:56:14 AM

That's possible, it's more interesting than the xbox ones anyway.

Edit, It gave her forum thread a nice bump too.

Quote from: hero 2
Quote
cgouskos

Dinner with @adegen who made a compelling argument why I should come back to WoW. My counter: Gave my account away last year. Stalemate.

about 2 hours ago via web

So... not... "I don't want to", then? Hrmph.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 12:07:35 PM by Arthur_Parker »
IainC
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Reply #583 on: December 23, 2010, 12:44:22 PM

To be fair, a lot of community and community facing people use their private social networks to pimp news from their game. I have a whole bunch of CMs on Facebook, LinkedIn and so on and a good deal of the daily traffic on their personal account is stuff like server status, beta updates and news articles.

Whether that's a good idea or not is a separate conversation to have but Carrie is hardly unique in mixing up her personal life and her work like that.

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

SerialForeigner Photography.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #584 on: December 23, 2010, 01:28:58 PM

She's letting people know that someone was trying to persuade her to play WoW again, but she can't because she gave away her WoW account.  She's doing it on a twitter feed that was directly linked from her first Warhammer Producers letter, that was hosted on the Warhammer online official website.  The same producers letter that was reposted word for word, including the twitter feed, to numerous Warhammer Online news sites (I'd link a few of them but why doubt me?).

And this is fine, because it's her "personal" feed.

Ok, then I'm fine with it too, you convinced me, what she does in her personal life is none of anyone elses business.

Now, Iain given your experience in mmo customer relations, if you were a Mythic community rep, how would you recommend dealing with the threads popping up on the official & fansite forums about your bosses personal twitter feed?  
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 01:30:36 PM by Arthur_Parker »
IainC
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Reply #585 on: December 23, 2010, 02:34:51 PM

I think you're mistaking me for someone who thinks it's a good idea in the first place. I'm just pointing out that it happens quite a lot.

I'm aware of the context and the history (having y'know read the half dozen or so posts above this one already) and if it were me I wouldn't have been linking to a personal twitter/Facebook profile/whatever in a newsletter. That being said, people in leadership positions at computer games companies tend to be known by name to the fans of those same games and it's not hard to do a little triangulating to figure out whether the J.Random profile you just pulled out of a Google search is in fact the very same J.Random who's heading the team for your digital crack of choice. Not that this makes it a good idea to remove that fairly trivial hurdle mind.

Since you asked what I'd do, I'd have set up a series of official micro-blogging feeds that were 'official and named' for each of the staff who might reasonably be expected to be the focus of fan attention. They'd post their random thoughts about their job there along with real-life lite stuff that gives the veneer of actual humanity to the feed ('Watching Tron, so awesome! We should totally have light-cycles in our game' sort of stuff). Under no circumstances would I be encouraging my community to cyberstalk the actual personal networks of anyone.

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

SerialForeigner Photography.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #586 on: December 24, 2010, 05:07:19 AM

Should she be using her personal Twitter feed to post official news/updates? No. (I don't know if she does or not, but that's not something I'd ever recommend. You Are Not Your Employer.)

It's great that we all agree with Lum.

Here's how Andy dealt with it.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/232/index/5522349/6

Quote from: Andy
This thread has degraded into personal insults and bashing.

Locked


The rolling signature image that links to his personal twitter feed was a nice touch.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 06:47:30 AM by Arthur_Parker »
Azazel
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Posts: 7696


Reply #587 on: December 25, 2010, 01:27:10 AM

Still on 1st page, my favourite so far.

Quote
I read somewhere there was originally supposed to be 6 cities. But the goblin city was designed with tiny doors that orks could not fit through so they scrapped the whole idea.

I heard somewhere that the internet is full of fuckwads that post whatever bullshit pops into their heads.

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Azazel
Contributor
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Reply #588 on: December 25, 2010, 01:32:34 AM

http://twitter.com/cgouskos

Quote from: cgouskos about 5 hours ago via web
Dinner with @adegen who made a compelling argument why I should come back to WoW. My counter: Gave my account away last year. Stalemate.

 DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS

Isn't that a TOS/EULA violation? In both WoW and WAR? Good example for the players?  why so serious?

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #589 on: December 25, 2010, 10:33:14 AM

Still on 1st page, my favourite so far.

Quote
I read somewhere there was originally supposed to be 6 cities. But the goblin city was designed with tiny doors that orks could not fit through so they scrapped the whole idea.

I heard somewhere that the internet is full of fuckwads that post whatever bullshit pops into their heads.


I was quoting two really stupid comments, that was one of them.
Ratama
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Reply #590 on: December 25, 2010, 03:24:39 PM

Hate to butt in with this, but I actually can't seem to find the answer either via a quick perusal of this thread, or WHA; Phoenix Throne is dead, right?  No more special rules servers of any kind left up, and down to three servers total now?

And rereading this thread = depressing.  What a first-rate fuck-job Jacobs & Co. put on this game.

Spare the rod, spoil the dev.
Modern Angel
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Reply #591 on: December 25, 2010, 05:56:25 PM

Pretty sure it's just normal rules servers now, yeah.
waffel
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Reply #592 on: December 26, 2010, 02:24:02 AM

This game is like taking a spoiled glass of milk, putting it in a dark spot of your basement, and leaving it there for a few years. Then, every few months you go downstairs and a peek at it, wondering what the hell its mutated into next all the while wondering why it hasn't been thrown out yet.
Ratama
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Reply #593 on: December 28, 2010, 01:02:05 AM

I would use undercooked meat instead of milk, but yeah.

And the grand reveal after the trainwreck that they didn't even like PvP, or wanted to make a PvP game... ffs, why the Warhammer IP, then?

Edit: No, seriously, why the Warhammer IP?  Pretty sure I've read the how's and why's of the rest.  Was Mark or someone else at Mythic a big Warhammer fan, or something?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 01:11:39 AM by Ratama »

Spare the rod, spoil the dev.
UnSub
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WWW
Reply #594 on: December 28, 2010, 08:12:53 PM

I haven't looked into it, but:

1) it was an existing IP that would appeal to nerds; taking that on would save art / backstory writing time.

2) there'd been some interest in the previous version of the Warhammer Online game before it collapsed.

3) one of the common themes around WoW's success was "established IP", which Warhammer falls under.

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