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f13.net General Forums => Warhammer Online => Topic started by: Arthur_Parker on February 19, 2009, 04:49:26 AM



Title: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 19, 2009, 04:49:26 AM
Decided to put this in a post to track what's happening with the server merges "free character transfers".

US Servers - Alive
Badlands, Dark Crag, Darklands, Gorfang, Iron Rock, Ironclaw, Ironfist, Magnus, Monolith, Ostermark, Phoenix Throne, Praag, Skull Throne, Volkmar, Vortex

US Servers - Dead or Dying (date transfers off announced, included)
Anlec - 11/25/2008
Avelorn - 11/25/2008
Averheim - 11/25/2008
Azazel - 02/19/2009
Bechafen - 11/25/2008
Be'lakor - 10/31/2008
Bretonnia - 11/25/2008
Chaos Wastes - 11/25/2008
Drakwald - 11/05/2008
Drifting Castle - 11/05/2008
Eerie Downs - 11/03/2008
Grimnir - 10/31/2008
Heldenhammer - 10/31/2008
Hochland - 01/05/2009
Kislev - 10/31/2008
Kragg - 10/31/2008
Lucan - 11/01/2008
Lustria - 11/01/2008
Marienburg - 10/31/2008
Marius - 11/01/2008
Middenheim - 10/31/2008
Mordheim - 10/31/2008
Rakarth - 10/31/2008
Red Eye Mountain - 02/19/2009
Reikland - 10/31/2008
Saphery - 10/31/2008
Sea of Claws - 10/31/2008
Sea of Malice - 10/31/2008
Skavenblight - 10/31/2008
Sylvania - 02/19/2009
Thorgrim - 10/31/2008
Tor Achere - 10/31/2008
Tor Elyr - 10/31/2008
Tower of Doom - 10/31/2008
Ulthuan - 11/05/2008
Ungrim - 02/19/2009
Wasteland - 11/05/2008
White Tower - 10/31/2008
Wolfenburg - 11/25/2008
Wurtbad - 11/03/2008


EU Servers English Language - Alive
Burlok, Dragonback Mountains, Eltharion, Karak Eight Peaks, Karak-Azgal, Karak-Hirn, Karak-Izor, Karak-Norn

EU English Language Servers - Dead or Dying (date transfers off announced, included)
Alarielle - 22/12/2008
Axe Bite Pass - 12/16/2008
Clar Karond - 11/24/2008
Ellyrion - 11/24/2008
Finuval Plain - 11/24/2008
Karag Dron - 12/16/2008
Karag Orrud - 12/16/2008
Karak Ungor - 11/24/2008
Karak-Vlag - 11/24/2008
Karaz-a-Karak - 11/24/2008
Makaisson - 11/24/2008
Mount Silverspear - 11/24/2008
Sea of Dreams - 11/24/2008
Tiranoc - 11/24/2008
Tor Anroc - 11/24/2008
Worlds Edge Mountains - 11/24/2008
Yvresse - 11/24/2008
Zhufbar - 11/24/2008

Total servers alive 15 US + 8 EU English Language = 23 alive

Total servers dead or dying 40 US + 18 EU English Language = 58 dead/dying


Note, counting Oceanic servers as part of the US for ease of tracking, not including Russia or non English language EU servers as :effort:   If anyone spots a mistake, please let me know.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on February 19, 2009, 05:03:26 AM
For the EU, you've only included the English servers. News of transfers is only reported in the news for the relevant language so you'd need to trawl the German and French archives for info on their transfers. AFAIK there have been no Spanish or Italian merges.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 19, 2009, 05:08:36 AM
Doh, thanks, modified now.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Bismallah on February 19, 2009, 07:15:15 AM
Whew. Thanks for making a consolidated list.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on February 19, 2009, 02:56:50 PM
So much for the population numbers evening out and/or starting to grow.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tmon on February 19, 2009, 03:12:02 PM
I see Red Eye Mountain's on the list, if Bat Country was still alive they'd be making their 2nd move in three months.  Soon there will be a video on youtube explaining why having fewer servers than they launched with is a. a good thing and b. totally the fault of the dev responsible for server coding.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on February 19, 2009, 04:38:11 PM
If they consolidate a few more servers they can then open one and then Jacob's comment about how if they're not opening new servers in six months will show they're in great shape!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Bismallah on February 19, 2009, 04:41:52 PM
If they consolidate a few more servers they can then open one and then Jacob's comment about how if they're not opening new servers in six months will show they're in great shape!

Sad, yet so true.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 19, 2009, 04:56:23 PM
55 US open for character creation at peak, closing one, kills less than 2% of their maximum capacity.  15 US currently open for character creation, each one they close now, kills over 6% of their maximum capacity.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on February 19, 2009, 06:27:11 PM
One factor at play here was the rapid expansion of new servers to accommodate launch, followed by an update their server technology that apparently allowed more players per server. If they hadn't rushed to get more servers out the door, things wouldn't look this bad.

But yeah, woulda, shoulda, coulda.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Triforcer on February 19, 2009, 08:04:01 PM
One factor at play here was the rapid expansion of new servers to accommodate launch, followed by an update their server technology that apparently allowed more players per server. If they hadn't rushed to get more servers out the door, things wouldn't look this bad.

But yeah, woulda, shoulda, coulda.

So it WAS the fault of the server coders!!  I await Paul Barnett's harsh, yet totally needed brand of You-tube discipline to the party involved. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on February 20, 2009, 01:06:12 AM
FuckedCompanyServers.com


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Geki on February 20, 2009, 12:38:30 PM
So it WAS the fault of the server coders!!  I await Paul Barnett's harsh, yet totally needed brand of You-tube discipline to the party involved. 

Actually, it's probably more the fault of the people who threw absolute shit-fits when they announced the list of, what was it 10 or so servers for launch right before the CE prelaunch.  As much as we'd like to blame mythic for that... they pretty much said "we have enough servers for launch with these 10".  Then the vntards threw tantrums claiming that mythic would need 10X the amount of servers to accommodate the vast amount of demand for the game at 'real' launch.  So mythic caved and added a bunch of servers that are now dead or on the way out.





Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: rk47 on February 20, 2009, 12:48:25 PM
That's probably the most acceptable explanation I've read. I mean the current state of the game definitely is good enough to be holding all the population within 23 servers. Once the expansion pack is released, I'm sure Mythic can plan on the new server additions to cater to newcomers so the playing field can still be even. I am sure that many people who are on the fence are eagerly waiting for that to happen before they resub or buy the game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on February 20, 2009, 12:54:12 PM
Actually, it's probably more the fault of the people who threw absolute shit-fits when they announced the list of, what was it 10 or so servers for launch right before the CE prelaunch.  As much as we'd like to blame mythic for that... they pretty much said "we have enough servers for launch with these 10".  Then the vntards threw tantrums claiming that mythic would need 10X the amount of servers to accommodate the vast amount of demand for the game at 'real' launch.  So mythic caved and added a bunch of servers that are now dead or on the way out.
EA did sell a lot of boxes. You need servers to accomodate all those people. Using rough round numbers let's say 20K people per server with 1.5 million boxes shipped to retailers = 75 servers needed which is basically what they launched with.

Unforunately for them most people didn't stick around. When your player base falls to, say, 300K players, you only need 15 servers which they are working their way down to :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: EWSpider on February 20, 2009, 12:58:36 PM
Capacity wasn't the only reason people were bitching about the servers available at release.  The other problem was Mythic initially released a list of 20? servers.  We had that list for a week or two and many guilds picked their starting server based on that list.  I had to coordinate with four completely different groups of people to make sure everyone picked the same server.  It was already a fucking nightmare to get those four groups of people to agree on a server.  Then a few days before the launch Mythic releases a list with 10? servers on it for the CE headstart.  Guess what?  The god damn fucking server that I got all these people to agree to start on wasn't on the list.  I had to scramble to get those four groups to pick a new server within a day.  I ultimately failed and lost a large group of people to a different server.  My community was fractured before the game even released.  The clown shoes began before the game even launched.  Yeah, still bitter about that.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Delmania on February 20, 2009, 01:28:48 PM
Capacity wasn't the only reason people were bitching about the servers available at release.  The other problem was Mythic initially released a list of 20? servers.  We had that list for a week or two and many guilds picked their starting server based on that list.  I had to coordinate with four completely different groups of people to make sure everyone picked the same server.  It was already a fucking nightmare to get those four groups of people to agree on a server.  Then a few days before the launch Mythic releases a list with 10? servers on it for the CE headstart.  Guess what?  The god damn fucking server that I got all these people to agree to start on wasn't on the list.  I had to scramble to get those four groups to pick a new server within a day.  I ultimately failed and lost a large group of people to a different server.  My community was fractured before the game even released.  The clown shoes began before the game even launched.  Yeah, still bitter about that.

Interestingly enough, those 2 servers were Phoenix Throne and Red Eye Mountain, of which the former is one of the few servers where Order outnumbers Destruction, and the other was Red Eye Mountain, which is on life support.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Bismallah on February 20, 2009, 02:11:56 PM
So it WAS the fault of the server coders!!  I await Paul Barnett's harsh, yet totally needed brand of You-tube discipline to the party involved. 

Actually, it's probably more the fault of the people who threw absolute shit-fits when they announced the list of, what was it 10 or so servers for launch right before the CE prelaunch.  As much as we'd like to blame mythic for that... they pretty much said "we have enough servers for launch with these 10".  Then the vntards threw tantrums claiming that mythic would need 10X the amount of servers to accommodate the vast amount of demand for the game at 'real' launch.  So mythic caved and added a bunch of servers that are now dead or on the way out.


Haha, wait, what? You are going to say with a straight face that Mythic listened to some whiners on the VN boards and "caved in" and created more servers just, you know, on a whim. Um no.

They said they were releasing about 16 (could have been more I didnt buy CE went with regular release), they had the list, then they cut it back and had 10. That was the shit fit. As explained there were many groups of folks that had already organized to go live on certain servers, those servers didn't make the launch list for some unknown reasons, and people complained. They flexed out to so many servers after CE because of projections of initial box sales based off beta invites and beta account requests. Blame the VN posters all you like but a gaming company like Mythic doesnt just listen to one forum's worth of folks to make big money decisions. I am sure there were some head shed meetings with bean counters to decide server counts on release, not some VN posts printed out to take to the meetings to explain why they need more servers.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Geki on February 20, 2009, 03:33:56 PM

Haha, wait, what? You are going to say with a straight face that Mythic listened to some whiners on the VN boards and "caved in" and created more servers just, you know, on a whim. Um no.

They said they were releasing about 16 (could have been more I didnt buy CE went with regular release), they had the list, then they cut it back and had 10. That was the shit fit. As explained there were many groups of folks that had already organized to go live on certain servers, those servers didn't make the launch list for some unknown reasons, and people complained. They flexed out to so many servers after CE because of projections of initial box sales based off beta invites and beta account requests. Blame the VN posters all you like but a gaming company like Mythic doesnt just listen to one forum's worth of folks to make big money decisions. I am sure there were some head shed meetings with bean counters to decide server counts on release, not some VN posts printed out to take to the meetings to explain why they need more servers.

I used the term "vntards" as a generalization for all of the war fansite masses that cried about having to wait for the "regular" release when the CE servers were filling up while they couldn't play.  That was the shit fit.  The list you are talking about was the one they put up that had all of the servers and didn't mention which ones were CE and which ones weren't.

What happened was people got on the CE prerelease servers and they started filling up and people on all of the message boards started crying because they had to wait for login and the whole "what would happen when the rest of my unfortunate guild members without a CE try to get on?!" started.  When people started crying Mythic actually said 'we have servers in reserve if it's really going to be a big deal, right now we don't think it will'.  To which the people screamed mythic was crazy and posting shots of full servers, etc. and then what do you know, all of a sudden after the regular retail release hit there were servers added a few hours after the release started.

Shortly after those servers were released they added a patch that allowed the queues to be higher and it looked like half of those new servers the people begged for were ghost towns.

So yeah, I'm saying that in this case they actually caved to a bunch of whiners.  It was release, they were willing to suck a pretty big dick to get some numbers and they thought it would make people happy.  I think the tons of people threatening cancellations when their guilds couldn't get on the same server initially scared them.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that one, because I don't think mythic wanted to release those servers at all.

Ironically 2 weeks later the same idiots bitched about how empty their server was.  Of course that might be due to everyone bailing when we got to T3 and said "eff this" but... still.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 20, 2009, 03:42:45 PM
Not that I agree with much of that, but even if it was true, the first round of server closures should have fixed all those issues.  They are still closing servers months later, so...

edit, upon reflection, no, in fact all of that is fairly stupid, I don't think even Mythic would plan on buying hardware based on what is said on vn boards.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: March on February 20, 2009, 06:44:47 PM
Still no... the botched CE release was still botched even by botching the adding of more botched CE servers.

The issue with CE was thinking that CE was a complete "set" of players that should fill-up a server and then they would add more servers for the next set.

Rather, CE was a subset of several sets of players that would (and in fact DID) completely overwhelm the original servers when the full sets joined the subsets... hence the clever cloning escapade.

I have no algorithms for estimating server hardware based on shipping stats, and I'm willing to acknowledge that this must be a nerve-wracking business decision... but Mythic *did* make an odd calculation that the CE folks would only want to play with other CE folks... and not the rest of the general population that was going to follow them to specific servers.

In their defense, they were correct that WaR plays better on full servers (as is become painfully obvious)... but they were wrong that CE folks were not primarily interested in the 5-day head-start to reserve names, guilds, and explore the general mechanics.  In this case, the 5 days headstart was far more important than full T3 queues.

They hinted that they had a plan (tm), but in typical Mythic fashion, they were too clever by not communicating the plan.  If they had told everyone not to worry about servers and that they would fix over-population with either a) free transfers or b) server clones or c) any other idea in the universe... then I suspect folks would not have worried about the flawed approach they were taking.

The fact that servers are dead now, has nothing to do with the miscalculated CE approach.  My level 5 SwordMaster on [cloned] White Tower is, for me, pure bonus.

edit: word order is important


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on February 20, 2009, 06:48:58 PM
I don't see the big deal.

Either you don't have 'enough' servers at launch and people are all queued up trying to play, bitching.
Or you have too many servers, some are ghost towns, and you have to close them down which makes people bitch.

To hit the magic number of enough servers for everyone to play, no ghosttown servers, but no queues is near impossible.

What Mythic did makes perfect sense. Hype the game up, get everyone pumped, have CE play a week earlier (one of the only stupid things they did in terms of release) and have a bunch of servers for 'future growth'

The problem is they never grew, only shrank. Servers are closed. Big deal.

I don't really blame Mythic for aiming high and expecting to have grow steadily after the holidays and having enough servers active to account for that.

What I do blame Mythic for is for being so fucking blind/nearsighted that they couldn't see just how dogshitterrible their game was. Or that they expected the general MMO public to accept it.

The closed servers are just another indication of Mythic planning for one direction, but going another.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on February 20, 2009, 10:49:03 PM
It speaks volumes that another original server is going.

It's one thing to shut down the "extras" and such, but you'd think an original server would still be as healthy as any other - except when you have high turn-over, in which case being an original  server is more of a liability.

That tells me that the most passionate, optimistic players and guilds (who would of course be on those first servers) have already decided to leave. Which fits with the whole "3-months then out" that I and pretty much everyone else I know who played at one point has done.

You just know that they know, and have to kite their population checks by opening up new markets before the next quarterly report. When is Russia going live again?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on February 20, 2009, 10:59:20 PM
Fanboi self-hypnosis convincing themselves that WAR is having a pop increase since Volkmar is full/full.

Nevermind that a lot of what was Sylvania and Azazel just transfered. I'm sure THAT has nothing to do with it.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3568716#post3568716 (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3568716#post3568716)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on February 21, 2009, 04:59:17 AM
So it WAS the fault of the server coders!!  I await Paul Barnett's harsh, yet totally needed brand of You-tube discipline to the party involved. 

Actually, it's probably more the fault of the people who threw absolute shit-fits when they announced the list of, what was it 10 or so servers for launch right before the CE prelaunch.  As much as we'd like to blame mythic for that... they pretty much said "we have enough servers for launch with these 10".  Then the vntards threw tantrums claiming that mythic would need 10X the amount of servers to accommodate the vast amount of demand for the game at 'real' launch.  So mythic caved and added a bunch of servers that are now dead or on the way out.

No. Decisions were taken way before any lists were made public, you can't roll out hardware like MMO servers at that kind of notice.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: eldaec on February 21, 2009, 05:18:26 AM
I didn't realise that European numbers were so poor.

Given the IP is so strong across Europe, and given the European market generally favours pvp games, this game really ought to be selling better across Europe than in the US. I guess there must be some specific weak link in the European marketing and service delivery chain that is dragging down numbers. Hmmm.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Mavor on February 21, 2009, 05:34:33 AM
 It's not their marketing department, it is the game itself. Crap is still crap, no matter what marketing says.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on February 21, 2009, 05:51:21 AM
I didn't realise that European numbers were so poor.

Given the IP is so strong across Europe, and given the European market generally favours pvp games, this game really ought to be selling better across Europe than in the US. I guess there must be some specific weak link in the European marketing and service delivery chain that is dragging down numbers. Hmmm.  :oh_i_see:

Remember also that Arthur is only counting EU English servers, there are about 3x as many servers for the other 4 languages that aren't part of his numbers.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 21, 2009, 07:59:45 AM
Yeah what IainC said, I'm interested enough to track the easy stuff but not interested enough to put a lot of effort into this.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on February 21, 2009, 03:47:41 PM
I expect the warhammer fanboys population to take a hit. Warhammer 40k dawn of war 2 was just released and it's a pretty amazing game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Bismallah on February 22, 2009, 06:09:13 AM
Ah shit, I forgot about Dawn of War 2... I need to go pick that up.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Geki on February 23, 2009, 09:21:13 AM
Not that I agree with much of that, but even if it was true, the first round of server closures should have fixed all those issues.  They are still closing servers months later, so...

edit, upon reflection, no, in fact all of that is fairly stupid, I don't think even Mythic would plan on buying hardware based on what is said on vn boards.

Not that any of this really matters, and I totally agree with March, but if you read what I stated mythic said from before launch they had several servers in waiting in case demand got better.  It wasn't a matter of "buying hardware based on waht is said on vn boards".  It was a matter of turning on the hardware they had laying in wait because people panicked.  Now, why in the world they couldn't match up boxes shipped with the amount of hardware and just tell people to suck it up if they really didn't need to use those servers, I couldn't say.   

And you're right, the first round of server closures should have fixed it.  But by the time they did that, everyone had bailed.  Talk about a lose/lose situation. 

But it is what it is I guess...


anyway back to DOWII



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Geki on February 23, 2009, 09:28:10 AM
oh I effing give up, it's definitely Monday.  Sheesus.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 23, 2009, 09:57:24 AM
It was a matter of turning on the hardware they had laying in wait because people panicked.

There's zero evidence that they were in any way influenced by random internet posters on when they opened servers.  It's a classic fanboi excuse for a development company, blame the players, and ignores the fact that Mythic paying attention to what the player base said during the first few days of release would make them more clueless, not less.

It's retarded to try and shift some of the blame onto the players, the players are never at fault.  There's an unlimited depth of stupidity present in players, but they are always perfectly predictable.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Geki on February 23, 2009, 10:09:52 AM
It was a matter of turning on the hardware they had laying in wait because people panicked.

There's zero evidence that they were in any way influenced by random internet posters on when they opened servers.  It's a classic fanboi excuse for a development company, blame the players, and ignores the fact that Mythic paying attention to what the player base said during the first few days of release would make them more clueless, not less.

It's retarded to try and shift some of the blame onto the players, the players are never at fault.  There's an unlimited depth of stupidity present in players, but they are always perfectly predictable.


Ah, I see what you're saying.  It's been a long monday morning already lol.  You're correct, there isn't any real evidence about them opening those new servers due to people whining.  It's just my presumption from the posts Mark made on the VN boards at the time basically saying they were adding servers to copy chars to since people complained about queues, etc.  While the players are retarded and always predictable, in this case I think mythic failed to predict how retardedly fast folks bailed from the game after they went through the trouble of adding servers.. d'oh!  I think we can all agree it's fail all around.

But yeah, I hear ya.  Sorry about that.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on February 23, 2009, 10:31:31 AM
If they listened to players, it'd be a first. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Goreschach on February 23, 2009, 10:37:39 AM
If they listened to players, it'd be a first. :oh_i_see:

May have just been a smartass comment, but there is truth to it. The players were whining over so many other things that weren't touched, that to think that Mythic added servers on account of complaints over a couple days of queues is silly.

If anything, the complaints were just used to justify to the higher-ups Mark's little server count/epeen thing he had going.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 23, 2009, 10:40:32 AM
I wonder what would have happened if MJ had listened to Schild.  Sure the game would still have had lots of issues, PVE gear grind, fortress crashing, the stupidity of one popular scenario per tier etc, but alts are important, I'd have had one max character and played alts for a few months if there wasn't a t3/t4 hell grind.  It might have given them the time and subscriptions to actually turn it into a fun game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Geki on February 23, 2009, 10:52:33 AM
I'd have had one max character and played alts for a few months if there wasn't a t3/t4 hell grind.  It might have given them the time and subscriptions to actually turn it into a fun game.

Same.  Also, of all the people I personally know that played war locally here at work (group of 10 or so of us) literally *all* of them quit at the T3 chokepoint.  Myself included and I was in since the first beta.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: EWSpider on February 23, 2009, 11:10:17 AM
I might still be playing if not for being dick slapped upside my head by the T3 xp curve.  Yeah, the game has many many other issues besides, but I still have a small group of friends that are playing and enjoying the rvr.  I just simply couldn't be arsed to slog through the shitty pve to join them.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tannhauser on February 23, 2009, 05:09:45 PM
Out of 8 of us I am the only one who quit at the T3 cockblock.  So go figure.

 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on February 23, 2009, 05:25:07 PM
May have just been a smartass comment, but there is truth to it. The players were whining over so many other things that weren't touched, that to think that Mythic added servers on account of complaints over a couple days of queues is silly.
I like including a bit of truth with my sarcastic, smart ass comments.  It enhances their bite.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: rk47 on February 24, 2009, 01:41:55 AM
Out of 8 of us I am the only one who quit at the T3 cockblock.  So go figure.

 

well. i had no choice really. i bought 2 month sub cause i didn't' feel like using my credit card.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: schild on February 24, 2009, 01:50:55 AM
I wonder what would have happened if MJ had listened to Schild.  Sure the game would still have had lots of issues, PVE gear grind, fortress crashing, the stupidity of one popular scenario per tier etc, but alts are important, I'd have had one max character and played alts for a few months if there wasn't a t3/t4 hell grind.  It might have given them the time and subscriptions to actually turn it into a fun game.

No one listens to me. But I'm OK with that, I like seeing people piss money down the hole.

Despite the fact history has proven me right on multiple fronts for many games over the years. /shrug. Maybe something would've changed if I'd been loud and public enough during the beta, fact of the matter is, I don't beta anymore. Unless they want to pay me. I'm not saying I'm worth the money, but there's just better things to do with my time.

Edit: I'd wager if the exp grind didn't exist, rk47, Fuser and I would still bounce around in the pvp. I can say we would've at least lasted more than a month and change.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Bismallah on February 24, 2009, 05:43:23 AM
I think I made it to 38-39 but just couldn't be bothered to finish it out. There are still a couple people I know playing, mostly alts, but they won't last much longer with Eve getting back into gear for us.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on February 24, 2009, 08:37:27 AM
... fact of the matter is, I don't beta anymore. Unless they want to pay me. I'm not saying I'm worth the money, but there's just better things to do with my time.

Beta pays $50 in most cases.  Testing several of the last few MMO's to release has saved me $50 on each title.  After testing I knew better than to buy it. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on February 24, 2009, 10:29:35 AM
Edit: I'd wager if the exp grind didn't exist, rk47, Fuser and I would still bounce around in the pvp. I can say we would've at least lasted more than a month and change.
A lot of people would.  I know I would have gotten a few more months out of it.  Certainly long enough to get the new tank classes which interested me.

And up through when I quit I really liked the PvP.  Not the scenarios themselves so much, but fighting others was fun in this game.  (Not something you'd expect typed from my fingers seeing as I'm about as carebear as they come.)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on February 24, 2009, 11:24:11 AM
I'm still not sure how they managed to make the PVP in this game boring.  There is just something about the interaction with other players that seems slow and bland. 

I still stick by my guns in that if they had a decent AI and made the PVE more quality then it would have been more successful than it currently is.  The IP provides for an interesting backdrop for a game.

It is interesting that Monolith, a server that appeared to be very destro heavy in the beginning is now mostly controlled by order.  I think they underestimated how much even slight population imbalances could gimp the game.  Again, poor planning for a "south of 100 million dollars" game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Delmania on February 24, 2009, 11:39:47 AM
I am almost tempted with the 1.2 changes to resub and finish my chosen, but we'll see.   One of the things that Mythic did right is the ease of entering and leaving PvP combat, by playing the oRvR lakes in the center, and the letting you queue for scenarios from anywhere in the world. Those strengths pare overshadowed by the fact that all people do is queue for the same damn scenario over and over and oRvR is ring aroud the keeps.    If Mythic could make the RvR as fun in tiers 3 and 4 as it is in tiers 1 and 2, they might see a minor increase in subs.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sjofn on February 24, 2009, 10:34:15 PM
And up through when I quit I really liked the PvP.  Not the scenarios themselves so much, but fighting others was fun in this game.  (Not something you'd expect typed from my fingers seeing as I'm about as carebear as they come.)

That's part of why I can't hate Mythic totally, just feel Terribly Disappointed In Them. SOMETHING about the way they do PvP makes me all RAAR KILL THOSE FUCKERS, when normally I'm pretty carebearish myself. But then they mix in other shit they don't do well at all (like ... most PvE) and I can't be bothered.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on February 24, 2009, 10:58:11 PM
Now I have this image of us teaming up and going berserk on some poor guy who stumbles in our path.  RAWR!  CAREBEARS NEED BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!  *carnage*

It doesn't even matter that our tanks were Order.  Maybe that makes it that much more amusing.  I wonder if we've been consolidated down to the same server yet. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: rk47 on February 25, 2009, 03:53:23 AM
my best times in rvr is always ambushing people using the environs. Some players in my server is really good at leading raids. Kaldrin Valley for example is perfect for ambush. Usually a huge rock formation. Ahead of BFO, a full order zerg would run past, right before their back line pass our line of vision, we just let loose with the AOE CC and spam. Course this is moot in huge RVR zergfest but when it's just 1 WB vs 1 WB. It felt quite entertaining for a while.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on April 01, 2009, 03:05:18 PM
 an other free transfer announced  (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=727) 03/31/2009 @ 09:36:51 EST

Quote
                                      Phoenix Throne (RP)
Ostermark          to            Vortex (Core)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: March on April 01, 2009, 03:09:44 PM
an other free transfer announced  (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=727) 03/31/2009 @ 09:36:51 EST

Quote
                                      Phoenix Throne (RP)
Ostermark          to            Vortex (Core)
Ouch, opening day RP server.

Is Phoenix Throne now the only RP Server?

Even DAoC could support three (3) back in t'day.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Bismallah on April 01, 2009, 04:00:07 PM
Ouch, that was my old server, finally on the chopping block.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on April 01, 2009, 04:03:28 PM
Oh crap.  Now I'm in trouble.  (Well, were I playing.)  Apparently I had moved my Order Avalorn characters to Phoenix Throne, though something failed, so I probably have some lowbie stuck in limbo.

I guess my Chaos Ostermark chars could go to Vortex, but they were made on an RP server for gods' sakes!  If I were still playing I'd be pissed and quit.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Morfiend on April 01, 2009, 04:32:35 PM
Oh crap.  Now I'm in trouble.  (Well, were I playing.)  Apparently I had moved my Order Avalorn characters to Phoenix Throne, though something failed, so I probably have some lowbie stuck in limbo.

I guess my Chaos Ostermark chars could go to Vortex, but they were made on an RP server for gods' sakes!  If I were still playing I'd be pissed and quit.

They are offering people on PT the chance to transfer from PT to Vortex if they wanted to bring characters of the same faction from Ostermark to PT.

As someone who plays on PT, I am happy and sad. Happy cause more players is good, but the server was already very balanced, one of the few, and I hope the transfer dont screw up the balance. Also, the Destro community on PT is absolutely fantastic.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on April 01, 2009, 05:16:58 PM
Yes, but it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't for those who like RP servers since this is going to consolidate down to one.  My Order guild got moved to PT.  My Destruction characters I'd like to keep on an RP server as they're, personally, my favorites.  Were I in a position to care, it'd be forcing me to make a very unpleasant choice.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Morfiend on April 01, 2009, 05:41:58 PM
Yes, but it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't for those who like RP servers since this is going to consolidate down to one.  My Order guild got moved to PT.  My Destruction characters I'd like to keep on an RP server as they're, personally, my favorites.  Were I in a position to care, it'd be forcing me to make a very unpleasant choice.

I agree, but what are they going to do when you only have the population to support 1 RP server?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on April 01, 2009, 08:03:10 PM
Let characters from both realms exist on one server?  Are they really in a position to upset anyone who still wants to give them money?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: rattran on April 01, 2009, 08:52:37 PM
Let characters from both realms exist on one server?  Are they really in a position to upset anyone who still wants to give them money?

What ever gave you the impression that they want people to give them money? Everything they've done since launch seems to me to indicate the opposite.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Segoris on April 02, 2009, 08:32:42 AM
Let characters from both realms exist on one server?  Are they really in a position to upset anyone who still wants to give them money?

What ever gave you the impression that they want people to give them money? Everything they've done since launch seems to me to indicate the opposite.

That seems to be mythics m.o.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on April 02, 2009, 10:28:54 AM
Having paid Mythic monies for five years or so while playing DAoC, I have to agree that Mythic seems to have the attitude that the players should be grateful they have the opportunity to pay for a product that gets yanked around in weird directions.  Usually directions that are detrimental to the product.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Xeyi on May 31, 2009, 05:35:20 PM
I was checking out the official EU English forums today and there are now only 4 servers open; 3 core and 1 open RvR.

The most recent merge was the last RP server back in early May, so there are now no RP servers left here at all.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on July 13, 2009, 05:22:12 PM
so what are they at now?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on July 14, 2009, 04:46:29 PM
US (7 after current merge)

  Badlands
  Dark Crag (Open RvR)
  Gorfang
  Ironfist
  Iron Rock
  Magnus
  Monolith
  Phoenix Throne (Roleplay)
  Praag (Open RvR)
  Skull Throne
  Volkmar
  Vortex  

EU (4)

  Burlok (Roleplay)
  Eltharion (Open RvR)
  Karak Eight Peaks
  Karak-Azgal
  Karak-Izor
  Karak-Norn  

AU (2)

  Darklands
  Ironclaw

AU, I expect the 2 AU servers to merge together or into a US server at some point.

EU, not sure.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 14, 2009, 04:50:29 PM
Is it really 9 US + AU now? I vaguely thought it was 10.  I should really update the OP and find out but I didn't expect tracking WAR server closures to be so time intensive, :effort:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on July 14, 2009, 04:58:36 PM
You might be counting Ostermark, as their official forum is still up but they merged to PT I believe.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 14, 2009, 04:59:13 PM
Here's Taiwan from the other thread.

Local release date June 25th

Taiwan Servers - Alive
Phoenix Gate
Dragon seeds
Ecuador Volcano Fist
Chinese Temple Mount

Taiwan - Dead or Dying (date transfers off announced, included)
Roaring Canyon - 08/07/2009
伊克隆德 (Ike Longde?) - 08/07/2009
Black brazier - 08/07/2009
Fort nordenshelda post - 08/07/2009
Implicit ownership of wrecks - 08/07/2009


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sjofn on July 14, 2009, 09:18:38 PM
Implicit ownership of wrecks - 08/07/2009

Great WAR server name, or greatest WAR server name?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on July 14, 2009, 10:21:59 PM
Man, I don't know. Ecuador Volcano Fist is pretty badassed. It's like the fucking Dwarf Fortress random name generator created them


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on July 14, 2009, 10:34:15 PM
Or the Google Translator.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: WindupAtheist on July 14, 2009, 10:48:08 PM
Quote
Ecuador Volcano Fist

Wrestling move, IMHO.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: schild on July 15, 2009, 12:34:53 AM
Implicit ownership of wrecks - 08/07/2009
Great WAR server name, or greatest WAR server name?
Best MMO server name. Period. For any game. Ever. Past, present and future.

Quote
Ecuador Volcano Fist
Wrestling move, IMHO.
You obviously haven't spent enough time in Ecuadorian brothels if you think that's a wrestling move.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on July 15, 2009, 12:53:54 AM
YOINK


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: schild on July 16, 2009, 01:34:36 AM
lol (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ecuador+Volcano+Fist)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: rk47 on July 16, 2009, 04:06:38 AM
oh man. That's just foul.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Hawkbit on July 16, 2009, 07:50:35 AM
I debated for days of trying to make a joke about it, finally decided not to.  Combination of tastelessness and me not being funny enough to pull it off.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on July 16, 2009, 08:57:05 AM
I was sure Ecuador Volcano Fist required the girl to be having a heavy period, with perhaps the application of bicarb of soda and white vinegar for lube, but there you go.

Maybe I was thinking of Peruvian Volcano Fist.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on July 16, 2009, 09:06:30 AM
I was sure Ecuador Volcano Fist required the girl to be having a heavy period, with perhaps the application of bicarb of soda and white vinegar for lube, but there you go.

Maybe I was thinking of Peruvian Volcano Fist.  :why_so_serious:

Mexican Volcano Fist involves tequila.  The Cleveland Volcano Fist is a combination of the Mexican version and the Cleveland Steamer............


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Hindenburg on July 16, 2009, 09:20:16 AM
It's ED, so, NWS.
Ye Olde Huge List of Sex Moves (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/List_of_sex_moves)

/derail.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rondaror on August 05, 2009, 10:26:33 AM
Germany after first Server Merge:

Erengrad
Carroburg
Drakenwald
Huss (RP) - Merged in May
Averland (Open RvR) - Merged in July

At least the 3 remaining servers do well in terms of pop/activities


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Chockonuts on August 07, 2009, 10:34:04 PM
Praag's down. (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=883)

Six.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: raydeen on August 09, 2009, 12:12:05 AM
Praag's down. (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=883)

Six.

I love how they make it sound like a good thing.

"Greetings!

Another round of our Free Character Transfers starts today!"


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Hayduke on August 09, 2009, 01:08:41 AM
If you're on a dead or dying server it probably is a good thing.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nevermore on August 10, 2009, 09:26:29 AM
Why don't they just condense down to one server and get it over with.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on August 10, 2009, 10:52:46 AM
Then they couldn't use server merges to make people happy they'll have a few others to fight.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Triforcer on August 10, 2009, 10:55:38 AM
The chocolate river claims another victim. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on August 10, 2009, 12:29:34 PM
Why don't they just condense down to one server and get it over with.

Give it about 6 weeks....


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kail on August 11, 2009, 01:45:42 AM
Why don't they just condense down to one server and get it over with.


They're already starting to run up against the wall, there.  There's only one RP and one PvP+ server left.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on August 12, 2009, 08:51:35 PM
Why don't they just condense down to one server and get it over with.

Because "We still have more servers than DAoC!" is all they got left?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Bismallah on August 12, 2009, 09:25:35 PM
And to think, they still have a month to go before they even crack their first year online...



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Hayduke on August 19, 2009, 04:53:58 PM
There goes the Oceanic servers.  Probably the RP server next, can't imagine they'll merge more than that for awhile though.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on August 19, 2009, 05:01:10 PM
There goes the Oceanic servers.  Probably the RP server next, can't imagine they'll merge more than that for awhile though.

The  herald post (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=896). Now 13 12!

Forgot warpstone was a test server


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: schild on August 19, 2009, 05:22:37 PM
I just read the last patch. It's pretty clear now that there are still huge problems at the company.

Selling all the ingredients so players can make summoning stones instead of just selling the goddamn stones cheap as dirt strikes me as backwards ass game design.

Someone needs to fish the rest of the poison out of the well that is Mythic.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on August 19, 2009, 05:45:46 PM
I just read the last patch. It's pretty clear now that there are still huge problems at the company.

Selling all the ingredients so players can make summoning stones instead of just selling the goddamn stones cheap as dirt strikes me as backwards ass game design.

Someone needs to fish the rest of the poison out of the well that is Mythic.

Quote
* Summoning Stone components can now be purchased by Talisman Makers from Morena von Hoffe in Altdorf and Alerian the Flayer in The Inevitable City.

This is under the Talisman Making crafting section. Can anyone explain if you have to be a Talisman maker to also craft this stone?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sheepherder on August 19, 2009, 09:28:02 PM
Selling all the ingredients so players can make summoning stones instead of just selling the goddamn stones cheap as dirt strikes me as backwards ass game design.

Is the associated profession hard to level?  Because free skillups would be an obvious reason for this.  The other being an attempt to get people to use whatever auction/trade systems they have in place more frequently.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on August 20, 2009, 05:46:18 AM
I'm sure it's as convulsed and pointless as possible, it's how mythic rolls!




Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on August 20, 2009, 05:59:54 AM
Selling all the ingredients so players can make summoning stones instead of just selling the goddamn stones cheap as dirt strikes me as backwards ass game design.

Is the associated profession hard to level?  Because free skillups would be an obvious reason for this.  The other being an attempt to get people to use whatever auction/trade systems they have in place more frequently.

From my experience yes it was. It was a recipe based system that required you to disenchant items to get materials. Other materials came from other professions. Materials were limited by skill level (i.e. you needed a particular skill level to use higher level materials) and the level of materials was closely linked to the level of the item you salvaged or, in the case of scavenged stuff, the level of the mob you'd killed. This meant that you had to try and keep your crafting level equivalent to your character level otherwise you'd find it hard to get materials for your craft (you could only salvage weapons and armour and a lot of them were untradable). The market wasn't enormously well stocked with crafting materials when I played (that could very well have changed since though) so crafting was either a huge gold sink as you paid crazy prices for low level loot or an exercise in frustration as you stopped being able to advance due to having out-levelled your craft skill unless you wanted to farm green mobs on multiple alts with different collection skills in the hope of getting drops you could use.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Setanta on August 22, 2009, 07:02:10 PM
There goes the Oceanic servers.  Probably the RP server next, can't imagine they'll merge more than that for awhile though.

And the oceanic players with them. Reports are that the  pings are worse with the transfer, even though all servers were in the US 280-300+... which sadly is what I used to get playing WoW on dial-up from country Australia  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on September 02, 2009, 07:20:31 PM
vn boards (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/111642624/p1/?3)

Quote
Seems like the last Italian and Spanish servers are been closed with the remaining players been moved to english language servers.

Gorthor -> Karak Eight Peaks (Order - Destruction)
Gorthor -> Eltharion (Order -Destruction)
Gorthor -> Karak Azgal (Order)

Gorthor -> Karak Norn - transfer not possible

The transfer will be avaible from the 8th of september,same thing for the spanish server.

Normally I'd get a better source but :flu: and I hate the whole flash Europe website.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on September 02, 2009, 09:35:48 PM
At this point I'm willing to bet that WAR gets cancelled by EA by Q2 2010. Or eventually starts going on about their revolutionary single server technology which is why everyone now plays in the same world.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on September 02, 2009, 09:54:04 PM
UO is still running. If they think there's will be still be enough people playing WAR after they fire all but a skeleton crew I don't see why EA wouldn't keep it running indefinitely.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on September 03, 2009, 01:11:35 AM
UO's been paid for over time, though. I don't think WAR has made back its initial investment.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kageru on September 03, 2009, 03:41:41 AM

I don't really know why UO is still running. Maybe because it was inherited as a legacy game? Something not true of Warhammer.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on September 03, 2009, 06:38:17 AM
I don't see any reason to assume the population is going to level off, too much of the fun relies on other people being present.  That applies if there's 40 servers or 4, without cross server scenarios or some method of forcing each server to have a login queue to instantly replace those players logging off, I don't see how they can break this cycle of server closures.  They might survive when they reach one server in each region for months, but I don't think they can support two, active players will just more to the more popular one.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on September 05, 2009, 04:05:13 PM
vn boards again about GOA (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/111642624/p3/)

Quote
Last workday for the German WH:O Head of Community Management "Sterntaler" - 11th of september, 09
Last workday for WH:O CM "Hadi" - 18th of september, 09


On a longer side note, there are several sources (through fansite-admins and volunteers based on ex-CMs' statements and a post in a closed volunteer forums) that DAoC EU will be shut down at the end of the year.

Short summary of the post:
- DAoC is dead
- effort isn't viable for GOA anymore
- 1.96 unlikely, probably no server-end-event
- 1 CM already left and another one will very soon (or is already gone, since I don't know when exactly it was posted), the person writing this will be gone soon too
- no support anymore (not even for stuck or quests), no person for the players to speak to, Frenchs don't want to deal with the German volunteers
- Quote of his boss: "We are not contractually obliged to provide support for Dark Age in Dublin!" (they relocated much of GOA to Dublin, as French legislations made 24/7 support impossible), so it seems management didn't get any better in Dublin without the French.
- he advises everyone who wants to continue to play DAoC to get an account from Mythic

Bolded for comedy, no idea if it's all accurate but the parts about Sterntaler & Hadi seem to be (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http://www.klamm.de/partner/unter_news.php%3Fl_id%3D12%26news_id%3D64459&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0=).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waylander on September 05, 2009, 09:18:29 PM
When I logged on tonight there were 8 US servers, 3 with Low/Low pops and 5 with Med/Med pops.  I know for a fact that two of the med/med's (Dark Crag and Volkmar) are going to lose a ton of people to AION in a few weeks.  So its looking like 3 or 4 US servers might be left standing by the end of October.

Also out of all the remaining servers, all but one have big "who's going to AION" discussions with guild lists so it looks like War may take a huge hit real soon.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on September 05, 2009, 11:17:21 PM
With Med/Med is the population density high enough for good RvR still?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Azazel on September 07, 2009, 03:11:56 AM
UO is still running. If they think there's will be still be enough people playing WAR after they fire all but a skeleton crew I don't see why EA wouldn't keep it running indefinitely.

I get the feeling that they can write WAR off as a massive loss for the Taxman. So they probably will.

I should open up my boxes and play it for the included month when I go on holidays in December! Or in 2 weeks! I was holding off "for 6 months" so I could play the improved, patched up game since all MMOs are a mess when they start. Go me!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rondaror on September 07, 2009, 09:36:01 AM

Bolded for comedy, no idea if it's all accurate but the parts about Sterntaler & Hadi seem to be (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http://www.klamm.de/partner/unter_news.php%3Fl_id%3D12%26news_id%3D64459&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0=).

Sterntaler and Hadi confirmed their departure officially on GOA Forum. There is one CM left for Germany now.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waylander on September 07, 2009, 11:56:52 AM
With Med/Med is the population density high enough for good RvR still?


Sometimes it is yes.  Generally though the med/med servers have slow scenario pops, and you need those to cap zones unless you like sitting around for 2 hours watching the domination timer count down. I would imagine that if they had cross server scenarios in the game from launch day, there would still be double the amount of servers they have right now.

My sub runs out on Sept 13th.  The T4 end game is still bad until fortresses are gone, scenarios are too infrequent, and we all know how terrible and boring the PVE is and it hasn't gotten better.

I predict there will be between 2-3 servers (US) at med/med by December.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on September 09, 2009, 12:19:58 PM
With Med/Med is the population density high enough for good RvR still?


Sometimes it is yes.  Generally though the med/med servers have slow scenario pops, and you need those to cap zones unless you like sitting around for 2 hours watching the domination timer count down. I would imagine that if they had cross server scenarios in the game from launch day, there would still be double the amount of servers they have right now.

My sub runs out on Sept 13th.  The T4 end game is still bad until fortresses are gone, scenarios are too infrequent, and we all know how terrible and boring the PVE is and it hasn't gotten better.

I predict there will be between 2-3 servers (US) at med/med by December.

Haha 3 servers by Xmas was my prediction as well.  Yes PvP sucks on med/med servers sometimes, especially during the day when 0 scenarios pop until about 2-3pm and dont pop well until prime time.  Since you cant get scenarios RvR can be found but you often have to go look for it.  Cross server scenarios definitely would of made an improvement but c'est la vie.  Forts still block the city instances and on most servers when a pairing flips to Fort no one bothers to go(GG single ramp bottleneck).  On my server Gorfang, Order has been to IC once in 5 months, Destro has been to Altdorf once in 4 months.  My sub is done this month as well. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sobelius on September 09, 2009, 02:42:35 PM
Been playing a year -- same group of 5 friends, once a week, 4-6 hours a week. Am just about to hit 40 with my main (DoK on Volkmar). It's still fun but the trip from 32-40 has had some harsh lessons -- namely, you're fairly useless in PvP post-31 until you hit 40 and get some gear. I whined about it on the WAR forums and got some decent advice:

- installed the SoR (State of the Realms) add-on -- shows accurate real-time status of ORvR conflicts -- made finding fights much easier
- go to zones that are about to flip, help out and when it does flip and get some decent RP

Won't say it hasn't been without its frustrations, but spreading out the trip to 40 over the course of a year made the highs not so high and the lows not so low.

Just upgraded my desktop system as well, and the whole game looks amazing and runs smoothly, even in larger battles. Again, doesn't mean the game is now 'great', but it's still enjoyable.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: nurtsi on September 10, 2009, 03:27:52 AM
I just cancelled my account after I noticed I haven't logged in for few days. I made it to 38. The end game gets pretty repetitive after a while. I really hate the "you are disabled" shit. Also, 31-39 sucks ass when everyone else can just roflstomp you because of gear and what not. People have trinkets that give you a shield that absorbs two thirds of my own HP pool.

Also, as a casual player I really dislike the fact that premades and PUGs are matched against eachother in scenarios. I think WoW preventing twinks from playing against "normal" people is a step in the right direction. I'm sure some game will eventually not allow premades vs PUGs.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: DLRiley on September 10, 2009, 04:20:41 AM
Eventually being 10 years from now right  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on September 10, 2009, 08:10:48 AM
People have trinkets that give you a shield that absorbs two thirds of my own HP pool.



In continuation of their Dev stupidity they did this when they launched LOTD.  They have 2 trinkets that make no sense to me, one is the one you mentioned that absorbs about 4000 melee dmg. not caster damage...melee damage only.  The other is a 15 second trinket that cause an opponent to not be able to block, parry or dodge your attacks.  Then they put in pocket items liek a watch that increases run speed by 40% for 20 seconds, cant use it in combat *boggle*


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: murdoc on September 10, 2009, 10:56:52 AM

 I think WoW preventing twinks from playing against "normal" people is a step in the right direction.

Off-topic, but is this true? I haven't played WoW in about a year, but I hadn't heard that they did something to limit this.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Hayduke on September 10, 2009, 11:15:24 AM

 I think WoW preventing twinks from playing against "normal" people is a step in the right direction.

Off-topic, but is this true? I haven't played WoW in about a year, but I hadn't heard that they did something to limit this.

I haven't played in a few months, but as I understand it when they added XP to the battlegrounds they also gave people the option to turn it off (twinks).  People with xp on can only play other people with xp.  People with xp turned off can only play against people with it turned off.  Wouldn't really work in WAR since there's not enough players.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Segoris on September 10, 2009, 11:27:55 AM

 I think WoW preventing twinks from playing against "normal" people is a step in the right direction.

Off-topic, but is this true? I haven't played WoW in about a year, but I hadn't heard that they did something to limit this.


Yeah, the difference now is that non-twinks/new players are going up against people in full BoA's that are as devastating as twinks were. I actually found that funny, same thing is happening only with different people and a marginally better reward for the winning side. The exp in pvp after a 20min warsong is about equal to 2-4 minutes of killing mobs.

I also hadn't played WoW for well over a year and reactivated recently, that lasted about 3 days. The changes they made are some good ones in that aspect, but still no where near worth reactivating for.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on September 10, 2009, 12:19:52 PM
Find it hard to get excited about making a twink, shutting off xp gain so I can maintain a bracket at max level and do the same ole scenarios 5 years straight. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on September 10, 2009, 02:04:27 PM
Find it hard to get excited about making a twink, shutting off xp gain so I can maintain a bracket at max level and do the same ole scenarios 5 years straight. 

Like staying in high school to be the smartest kid in class?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on September 10, 2009, 02:08:44 PM
Let's be honest here.  Staying in a BG with the best gear in any MMO with a PvP component isn't all that different than playing at the level cap with the best gear.  It's just easier to do at the lower levels. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Segoris on September 10, 2009, 02:10:49 PM
I've had some twinks, it really is looked down on much more then it deserves imo. They keep a pretty decent community (19's excluded, that's just a cesspit), don't have to go chasing for new "omawdepiczlawls" ever few months, and there's no complaints of "I lost because you have better gear." If I didn't have RL friends that kept me in end game, I probably would have just kept twinking more then I did since, really, it was a lot more of an enjoyable experience and less of a second job then end game.

Although if WAR did this for t1, that actually might be enjoyable. Then again, why bother with a sub when a free trial is, well, free and gives access to play the only fun part of WAR.


Edit:
Let's be honest here.  Staying in a BG with the best gear in any MMO with a PvP component isn't all that different than playing at the level cap with the best gear.  It's just easier to do at the lower levels.  

^This. Very rarely does gear need updating, it's just login and pvp. A twink can be completed in a few hours.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kageru on September 11, 2009, 12:11:13 AM

Twinks was just about being able to crush people levelling up who thought trying PvP might be a bit of fun.

As soon as they are put in an environment where they can't fight with a massive gear advantage most of them will quit. Which is of course the whole point of blizzards change. Combine that with some XP gain and actually playing some PvP games while you are levelling is makes some sense now. Brilliant change really.

I doubt the BoA gear is close to the twink stuff but I haven't really checked. The only thing I'd really use would be the two +10% experience items, there's enough cheap gear in the AH for everything else.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Der Helm on September 11, 2009, 02:26:51 AM
I doubt the BoA gear is close to the twink stuff but I haven't really checked. The only thing I'd really use would be the two +10% experience items, there's enough cheap gear in the AH for everything else.
I recently saw a lvl 18 rogue with a full set of heirlooms (BoA). Shoulders, Chest and 2 daggers with enchants. Ouch.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kageru on September 11, 2009, 04:11:04 AM

The daggers are nothing special though..

17-33 damage
15.0 dps
+2 Agility
+8 AP
+1 Hit

and only take enchants that can be applied to a level 1 weapon. The weapon you can earn with just by playing WSG is

18 - 34 Damage   Speed 1.70
(15.3 damage per second)
+4 Agility
+2 Stamina

or you could escort your twink into, or group for, a dungeon and get a blue drop about the same.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on September 11, 2009, 09:45:54 AM
I always like the level 19 BGs.  I never twinked and never felt that outmatched.  The way Blizzard is doing it now is much better though. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Segoris on September 11, 2009, 12:02:48 PM

Twinks was just about being able to crush people levelling up who thought trying PvP might be a bit of fun.

As soon as they are put in an environment where they can't fight with a massive gear advantage most of them will quit. Which is of course the whole point of blizzards change. Combine that with some XP gain and actually playing some PvP games while you are levelling is makes some sense now. Brilliant change really.

I doubt the BoA gear is close to the twink stuff but I haven't really checked. The only thing I'd really use would be the two +10% experience items, there's enough cheap gear in the AH for everything else.


FIFY



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on September 11, 2009, 06:39:30 PM
Only the BoA weapons are comparable to the old twink stuff. The armor pieces aren't really anything to write home about stat wise.


Before the twink changes, I used to run into 19's with 2k HP. They weren't spending all that time and effort to have a 'even' playing field.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kageru on September 11, 2009, 09:15:16 PM
FIFY

I'm sure you feel you added a lot.

They reduced the issue with enchants by putting level limits on most of them.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Feverdream on September 12, 2009, 12:31:57 AM
Den this if it has already been posted.

It looks like Karak-Eight Peaks, which I believe was a destination server (like..just days ago?) for the Italian and Spanish server transfers, is now being opened for transfers to other servers:

http://forums.war-europe.com/warhammeronline/board/message?board.id=karakeightpeaksgeneral&thread.id=332&page=4

Karak-Eight Peaks was one of the Head Start servers, and used to be one of the (if not the most) populated of the EU servers, yes?

I think this will bring the total EU servers to 3.

Tick-tock.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Segoris on September 14, 2009, 01:56:22 AM
Karak-Eight Peaks was one of the Head Start servers, and used to be one of the (if not the most) populated of the EU servers, yes?

I think this will bring the total EU servers to 3.


Ouch =/




For Ford and Kage, if you really want to continue the twink discussion I spoilered responses to it as it is a bit off topic for this thread. Also, it's spoilered since I just got back from a weekend trip and am late to respond to it. It really isn't the discussion I had planned on having, but have no problem doing so.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: BitWarrior on November 06, 2009, 03:20:23 PM
This is old news, but from what I have read and understand, the remaining oceanic servers have all been shut down as of August 19, 2009. Their populations were merged with some North American servers: Volkmar, Gorfang and Badlands. Apologies if this is mentioned somewhere else in the thread.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rondaror on November 19, 2009, 09:52:34 AM
Germany after first Server Merge:

Erengrad - Servertransfer in November
Carroburg
Drakenwald
Huss (RP) - Merged in May
Averland (Open RvR) - Merged in July

At least the 3 remaining servers do well in terms of pop/activities

2 servers remaining.

With Eltharion being merged as well, there are 3 English servers left and 2 French.

I don't see any reason to assume the population is going to level off, too much of the fun relies on other people being present.  That applies if there's 40 servers or 4, without cross server scenarios or some method of forcing each server to have a login queue to instantly replace those players logging off, I don't see how they can break this cycle of server closures.  They might survive when they reach one server in each region for months, but I don't think they can support two, active players will just more to the more popular one.

Cross server scenarios are at least a chance to prevent the bleeding of the servers (and can be done without spending too much money for a game in maintenance mode). But to prevent casuals from leaving they need to implement a rating system (like WoW arenas) to prevent premades facerolling PUG's. On my server most casuals stopped playing scenarios.
With severe faction imbalance on most servers open RvR = PvE.
So a casual can do open RvR, which means PvE or do some dungeons, which means...erm...PvE. But WAR is famous for its outstanding PvE....oh wait.

Actually I see the servers dying in a really fast pace. It reminds on the open PvP server for DAoC.






Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on November 19, 2009, 10:11:26 AM
Cross server queues would cost development money to make.  I think it's wasted effort/resources.  It's like saving the titanic from sinking with a pail. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on November 19, 2009, 06:16:54 PM
Cross server queues would cost development money to make.  I think it's wasted effort/resources.  It's like saving the titanic from sinking with a pail. 


But if you bail fast enough it will work out.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 22, 2009, 01:36:09 PM

I don't really know why UO is still running. Maybe because it was inherited as a legacy game? Something not true of Warhammer.


Everything else aside, nobody wants to go down in history as "That guy who cancelled UO!"


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on November 22, 2009, 07:31:17 PM

I don't really know why UO is still running. Maybe because it was inherited as a legacy game? Something not true of Warhammer.


Everything else aside, nobody wants to go down in history as "That guy who cancelled UO!"

Who was the guy who cancelled The Sims Online / EA Land?

Or Asheron's Call 2?

Or Tabula Rasa?

No-one gets named for cancelling a MMO - it is just a company decision.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Numtini on November 23, 2009, 06:03:31 AM
Quote
I don't really know why UO is still running

My guess is its EA/Mythic's largest MMO.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 23, 2009, 10:19:50 PM
Who was the guy who cancelled The Sims Online / EA Land?

Or Asheron's Call 2?

Or Tabula Rasa?

No-one gets named for cancelling a MMO - it is just a company decision.

Nobody gave a shit about those games except the 12 people playing them.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on November 24, 2009, 10:08:58 AM
Two more dead

Quote from: http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=987
Phoenix Throne will be able to transfer to either Iron Rock OR Badlands

Dark Crag will be able to transfer to either Gorfang OR Volkmar

Edit:
So that's four US servers left  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on November 24, 2009, 10:18:28 AM
That makes 5 servers.  3 months until it's completely dead.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on November 24, 2009, 10:19:26 AM
I really think that they would have been better served by just making the announcement.  When I read all of the explanation it came off as rather insincere.  The few remaining players, while a bit bummed, will be fine as long as they have a place to log on and fight.  By the looks of it, that may not last very long.  


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on November 24, 2009, 10:38:34 AM
Did they ever lift the restriction about having characters of both sides on the same server?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on November 24, 2009, 11:34:52 AM
That makes 5 servers.  3 months until it's completely dead.
3 months would tie it with Tabula Rasa :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: BitWarrior on November 24, 2009, 02:21:31 PM
How many European servers are left now, exactly? (Including French, German, etc)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on November 24, 2009, 04:16:15 PM
That makes 5 servers.  3 months until it's completely dead.

I thought warpstone was the test realm?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Bismallah on November 24, 2009, 06:48:30 PM
That makes 5 servers.  3 months until it's completely dead.

Ouch


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on November 24, 2009, 08:32:00 PM
In related news, ex-Mythic Lance Robertson ends up at NetDevil on Jumpgate Evolution (http://www.massively.com/2009/11/24/jumpgate-evolution-brings-on-a-new-executive-producer/).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rondaror on November 25, 2009, 08:12:40 AM
Did they ever lift the restriction about having characters of both sides on the same server?

No.

I don't think that's a problem for the remaining players. As long as there are 2 servers left.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on November 25, 2009, 08:30:39 AM
How many European servers are left now, exactly? (Including French, German, etc)

Don't think it's worth the effort to find out.

Quote
November 18, 2009
After consulting the players of Eltharion and following the ensuing discussion we have now concluded that we will grant free character transfers to other servers starting (Monday the 23rd of November), Eltharion players using the Character Transfer option in the "My Profile" section on our website will be able to transfer to:
Karak-Norn (EN Core)
Karak-Azgal (EN Core)
Carroburg (DE Core)
Drakenwald (DE Core)
Athel Loren (FR Core)

Last EU open RVR server is now closing as well.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waylander on December 02, 2009, 10:01:22 AM
http://pauser.com/warhammer/popmon/

There's a population monitor site still going apparently, so it is at least a way to sort of see how active the game's population is on what servers.  War just waited too long to make changes, and the only thing IMHO that can save that game is if they did like D&D online and went F2P.  Instead of RVR tokens, they could open up a store and let people buy things they need for their characters.

Because of the population issues, as well as realm imbalances, I don't see how people are going to want to pay a monthly fee to come back to this game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: tazelbain on December 02, 2009, 10:10:04 AM
After EA's attempt at RMT with BF:H, I don't think EA has it in them.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on December 02, 2009, 10:29:56 AM
War just waited too long to make changes...

This says it all.  WAR had potential.  The classes were interesting and the initial pvp and PQ's were fun.  They failed when they insisted that the customer adapt to their game rather than redesign the game to better cater to the customer.  Anything they do now would be too little, too late.  I doubt even F2P would revive this game without a major system revamp.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on December 02, 2009, 10:35:48 AM
the very sad irony will be as Mythic they could have survived with their current sub base (probably 100k?), but being part of EA that is in doubt.  Whether they could've launched as Mythic, I don't know.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on December 02, 2009, 10:38:15 AM
the very sad irony will be as Mythic they could have survived with their current sub base (probably 100k?), but being part of EA that is in doubt.  Whether they could've launched as Mythic, I don't know.

They sold almost 1 million boxes.  There was plenty of interest.  The push for mass market appeal diluted this game into zero appeal, even among the most devoted Mythic fans. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on December 02, 2009, 10:55:18 AM
And somewhere on some tropical island, Mr. Jacobs is manically giggling to himself wearing his money hat.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 02, 2009, 11:17:41 AM
He may even be wearing a money thong.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Montague on December 02, 2009, 11:42:06 AM
And somewhere on some tropical island, Mr. Jacobs is manically giggling to himself wearing his money hat.  :awesome_for_real:

I doubt it. Jacobs struck me as the type that wanted to be the man. He wanted to be the next Brad McQuaid. Despite protestations to the contrary, I think he wanted to be known as the man to take down Blizzard. To do so he made a deal with the devil, but he apparently forgot to bring his proverbial long spoon to dinner.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on December 02, 2009, 01:28:23 PM
He wanted to be the next Brad McQuaid. Despite protestations to the contrary, I think he wanted to be known as the man to take down Blizzard. To do so he made a deal with the devil, but he apparently forgot to bring his proverbial long spoon to dinner.

I think that's correct.  Again, I find it sad, but I think this is accurate. He lost sight of the real imperative -- make a fun game, not compete with Blizz.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 02, 2009, 03:00:56 PM
Jacobs was never about making a fun game, even back in DaoC, it was always a calculated move to make the most profitable game possible. It wasn't even a 'vision' thing or anything, just that if he thought ball breaking grind would result in longer subs and more money, then so be it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on December 02, 2009, 03:06:09 PM
All these problems should have been clear in beta, but Mythic has always handled player testing pretty badly, right back to the Pendragon board days in DAOC. They wall everything up behind multiple tiers of NDAs and such to the point where no real communication can take place. Maybe a post-MJ Mythic will be smarter about that kind of thing.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: tazelbain on December 02, 2009, 03:08:20 PM
Umm, Mythic is dead.  So I am guessing not.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on December 02, 2009, 06:48:38 PM
Yes, yes, I just didn't want to type out EABiowareMythicFrankenstein'sMonster Studios.

Point being hopefully the people behind the completely wrongheaded customer relations/testing strategy Mythic always had have either left, changed their minds about it, or are no longer calling those shots.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kageru on December 02, 2009, 10:19:03 PM
I doubt it. Jacobs struck me as the type that wanted to be the man. He wanted to be the next Brad McQuaid.

Well I guess he achieved that then. Both of them received possibly too much credit for one game that worked then crashed and burned trying to reproduce the magic. Along the way indicating maybe they didn't have magic answers.

Warhammer badly needed a "is this fun?" pass early on in the design process and then use beta to refine and extend it. Far too many of the base game-play mechanics just didn't seem to add anything to the game. Combine that with force-feeding and ignoring warning signs from the beta test, trying to shoehorn in an entire new gameplay mechanic (world RvR) very late in development. Then when things start falling apart after release add more classes and a new zone with new mechanics as if that's going to fix fundamental issues.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 03, 2009, 12:58:48 AM
WAR has more or less followed DaoC's general development path, but at an massively accelerated rate.


Don't actually fix anything, just keep slapping on more tape, it'll hold!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 03, 2009, 05:33:11 AM
It's funny playing LOTRO after WAR.  Turbine just added an instance skirmish system that's like a PVE only, bastard child of WAR scenarios and public quests.  I'll quote from a lotro thread on it for laughs at WAR design expense.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=305266

Quote
In one of the skirmish diaries, they said that each skirmish has a daily quest attached to it to encourage players to do all the skirmishes, not just stick with the one they feel is most profitable and do it over and over and over and over.... and get bored. So the daily quest gives you almost as many marks as the skirmish itself, making it more advantageous to do them all instead of repeating one.





Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sir T on December 03, 2009, 07:52:28 AM
Dosent seem like that bad an idea to me.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 03, 2009, 08:23:40 AM
Um yeah, if I was being too subtle, that was the point, I was contrasting lotro to WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sir T on December 03, 2009, 08:25:58 AM
Ahh, sorry. With you now.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on December 03, 2009, 08:52:21 AM
WAR had some design issues certainly, but its biggest issue was one of expectation. "War is everywhere!" and the promises of incredible PvP killed WAR just as dead as any mistake in design.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on December 03, 2009, 08:54:24 AM
WAR had some design issues certainly, but its biggest issue was one of expectation. "War is everywhere!" and the promises of incredible PvP killed WAR just as dead as any mistake in design.

I don't think most people believed the hype.  I think the box sales were a sign that gamers wanted something new to mess with that wasn't WoW.  WAR delivered a bad version of WoW.  That was the primary downfall. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: tazelbain on December 03, 2009, 09:55:27 AM
I don't give Turbine much credit here.  When you remove PvP from the equation thing are allows much simpler.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sir T on December 03, 2009, 10:00:08 AM
I don't give Turbine much credit here.  When you remove PvP from the equation thing are allows much simpler.

 :headscratch:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Pagz on December 03, 2009, 07:20:54 PM
I don't give Turbine much credit here.  When you remove PvP from the equation thing are allows much simpler.

 :headscratch:
I think he means that because the skirmishes in lotro are PvE and not PvP, it doesn't have the issues WAR did with population issues?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 03, 2009, 07:27:10 PM
NPC's also don't care if they always lose :)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on December 03, 2009, 08:37:05 PM
WAR had some design issues certainly, but its biggest issue was one of expectation. "War is everywhere!" and the promises of incredible PvP killed WAR just as dead as any mistake in design.

I don't think most people believed the hype.  I think the box sales were a sign that gamers wanted something new to mess with that wasn't WoW.  WAR delivered a bad version of WoW.  That was the primary downfall.  

There are a lot of players who expected and wanted DAoC 2. That is a very large factor in disgruntlement as well.
- no 3-way
- no similar sense of realm pride/separation/call to arms devotion as a realm (Tiers not organized well geographically and in other ways)
- missing RvR features like climb points, random seige location, breakable/repairable walls that DAoC already knew how to do
- huge lack of open-world RvR focus, all sorts of cockblocks, progress bars, shit that just doesn't matter getting in the way (if you give WAR players so many stupid options that take them away from open RvR, why do you wonder why there aren't people in open RvR? Seems obvious to me.).


Most die hard DAoC fans were some of the very first to realize where WAR was headed and quit back in Dec/Jan. A few stubbornly optimistic and/or fanbois will stick it out to the bitter (and coming) end since they don't want to admit this is the last gasp Mythic had to replicate the DAoC magic.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kageru on December 03, 2009, 09:16:34 PM

I think for world RvR you also need to have some sort of pride in owning and holding the territory. The RvR field in tier 1 felt totally disconnected and the reward for holding it was all abstract  realm points and a meter moving forward. Splitting it up into different stories also diluted the playerbase which meant that even if the population was balanced you'd still end up with offensive zergs capping points because they can pick undefended and lightly defended targets. Aided by the fact that defense is boring and the reward system favored offence anyway. This part of the game could have, and should have, worked with two factions. The three factions is more helpful for mitigating the inevitable population imbalance.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rondaror on December 04, 2009, 08:13:07 AM

Warhammer badly needed a "is this fun?" pass early on in the design process and then use beta to refine and extend it. Far too many of the base game-play mechanics just didn't seem to add anything to the game. Combine that with force-feeding and ignoring warning signs from the beta test, trying to shoehorn in an entire new gameplay mechanic (world RvR) very late in development. Then when things start falling apart after release add more classes and a new zone with new mechanics as if that's going to fix fundamental issues.


That's the point. They should have stayed with the original Guild Wars design concept, instead of trying to turn the game into a DAoC-Light in Beta.
PvE, map design, crafting, every single portion of the game aims for fast, in-and-out gameplay experience based on scenarios. WAR has no depth, there is nothing in WAR that provides a sandbox type of gameplay experience. That's why it is impossible to fix the game, even if they succeed to make RvR fun. The rest of the game does not support it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: March on December 04, 2009, 08:26:26 AM

I think for world RvR you also need to have some sort of pride in owning and holding the territory. The RvR field in tier 1 felt totally disconnected and the reward for holding it was all abstract  realm points and a meter moving forward. Splitting it up into different stories also diluted the playerbase which meant that even if the population was balanced you'd still end up with offensive zergs capping points because they can pick undefended and lightly defended targets. Aided by the fact that defense is boring and the reward system favored offence anyway. This part of the game could have, and should have, worked with two factions. The three factions is more helpful for mitigating the inevitable population imbalance.

Stool #1

<fall> WaR

Stool #2

Quote from: Rondaror
That's the point. They should have stayed with the original Guild Wars design concept, instead of trying to turn the game into a DAoC-Light in Beta.
PvE, map design, crafting, every single portion of the game aims for fast, in-and-out gameplay experience based on scenarios. WAR has no depth, there is nothing in WAR that provides a sandbox type of gameplay experience. That's why it is impossible to fix the game, even if they succeed to make RvR fun. The rest of the game does not support it.

Both statements are true... it was Mythic's job to deliver on one of them; in the end, they delivered on neither.

Though... I will say this, the GW2 model they had in Beta1 was pretty damn sucky... I suspect they lost faith in their own original plan and desperately attempted to create DAoC 1.75 in about 4 months - but by that time they had so much investment in the GW2 model that even something simple like Thidranki v.2 for Tier 1 was impossible.

And yes, I am forever convinced that PvPvRvR simply requires at least 3 sides.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 07, 2009, 02:54:35 AM
The Three sides thing is over rated and no where near any kind of guarantee or balance device, but I've beaten that horse before, maybe even in this thread!  :dead_horse:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 07, 2009, 11:16:23 AM
Sure, it isn't a guarantee, Fordel.  However, if you have two sides and give the side that is already overpowered and winning a bonus of some sort you almost guarantee failure. 

Besides, three sides seemed to work pretty well in DAoC, so why wouldn't it improve things in WAR?  Because WAR is an unadulterated mess otherwise. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: March on December 07, 2009, 12:16:56 PM
Hey, who doesn't like a good ol'fashioned horse beating once in a while?

While I recognize that much of F13 seems to worship the Platonic Form of "Perfect Balance" with almost maniacal devotion... I'll simply add that my interest in three-sides has nothing to do with Balance and is purely and observation that three-sides are more fun than two in a PvP/RvR game.  In short, I will enjoy the ineluctable unbalance more.

 :dead_horse:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: BitWarrior on December 07, 2009, 01:26:42 PM
I always liked the idea of having a ton of sides - one for each army (Beastmen, Bretonnia, Dark Elves, Dogs of War, Dwarves, Empire, High Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, etc), but that would have likely been a logistical nightmare trying to figure out how to make 12 sided battlegrounds. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: carnifex27 on December 07, 2009, 02:09:13 PM
http://pauser.com/warhammer/popmon/

Because of the population issues, as well as realm imbalances, I don't see how people are going to want to pay a monthly fee to come back to this game.
The fucked up part of this quote is that you could have said this about DAoC a year or two after it came out and been completely wrong. This time you're completely right. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on December 07, 2009, 03:30:15 PM
Besides, three sides seemed to work pretty well in DAoC

Maybe on your server...


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 07, 2009, 04:31:33 PM
I didn't play DAoC.  Just going on hearsay.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 07, 2009, 05:12:31 PM
The problem with 3 sides, is its just 2 sides in disguise. The ideal is the 2 weaker sides gang up on the 1 strong side. The reality is the 2 stronger sides make the 3rd wheel it's little bitch, especially if in doing so, both of the two stronger sides ensure their own profitability, be it points or resources or just pure "pwning".


There was maybe 2 servers in DaoC that actually had 3 fairly even competitive realms. On all the others, there was a massive population advantage for Albion and then a substantial participation/effort advantage on either Hibernia or Midgard. The third realm was almost always under manned, under gunned and largely irrelevant outside of the odd gank group trying to score kills while the two larger forces fought over the third realms territory.


You could make it 5 sides, 15 sides, 342 sides, it'll eventually degenerate into Red vs. Blue scenario or worse.



It may still be worth while for flavor or world building, I wouldn't argue against that.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 07, 2009, 08:38:26 PM
The biggest issue with these games that try to do world PvP is that "rewards" are offered for the winning side.  The idea is that the losers will feel bad and suddenly get super motivated to get organized and go after the other side.  In reality, people just want to win, not work.  So the average joe will simply quit or reroll for the winning side.  What they should be doing is giving boosts to the losers to keep things somewhat equal.  I guess that is what they had planned with the dogs of war dealy, but that was apparently too difficult for them to do with 100 million smackos.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kageru on December 07, 2009, 08:58:20 PM
And the boosts they give are generally XP gains. The people doing most of the defending are level capped and don't care, while a side being beaten into the ground probably isn't getting a lot of new recruits. WoW tried to use a buff in wintergrasp which can have population imbalance. That's not very popular either because while your opponents side might be outnumbered that's little consolation if he's blowing you away 1 on 1 due to a balance buff.

I'm still of the opinion that World PvP is a nice idea that pretty much never works in practice.

Wow, those population numbers are impressively dire. 4 servers peaking at 600-1k? So a subscriber base of probably under 20k. The game has to be on life support mode and headed for shutdown.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 07, 2009, 09:31:40 PM
If you want a RvR game, you need to equal out the starting sides from the get go. If you can't get a somewhat equal spread of overall population AND a spread of participation* population, the game is doomed. All the tinkering after the fact will just slow the bleeding, but it won't correct the initial break. You still want that tinkering to help keep it even, but you need it to setup proper from day 1.

Of course, all of that amounts to "Do it right" so /shrug  :why_so_serious:

It isn't just a mechanics thing either, you also have to cater to the player psychology or whatever you want to call it. Need to flavor and racial diversity, can't make one side the 'bad guys', or the 'ugly guys'. If you are keeping the standard fantasy setting, each side needs Humans, Elves, TinyShortPeople, GiantBadassMonsterPeople. If you are keeping the standard fantasy class types, each side needs 'Paladins' and 'Rangers'. Just general things to help the populations start as even as possible.



*Having thousands of players online, but all sitting in the captial crafting hinges doesn't win you a RvR fight.   :awesome_for_real:






Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 07, 2009, 09:51:57 PM
Wow, those population numbers are impressively dire. 4 servers peaking at 600-1k? So a subscriber base of probably under 20k. The game has to be on life support mode and headed for shutdown.

Those are level 40 folks, I believe.  Still sucks.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on December 08, 2009, 07:36:55 AM
The populations have been horrible for a long time.  My old server Gorfang which is considered a busy server was dead during the day and you couldnt get PvP until about 2pm.  If you logged in any earlier then that prepare to do PvE cause you wont be getting scenarios and the RvR was a waste. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on December 09, 2009, 10:14:20 PM
3-way worked well in DAoC as far as you could take it.

Since DAoC never added formal support in-game for cross-realm alliance communications or damage prevention due to being temporarily "on the same side", everything from agreeing to coordinate an attack on the stronger realm to avoiding hitting each other at keeps when the eventual fray of all 3 realms converged was just done ad-hoc in Vent, forums, manually avoid targeting or AEing and the like.

Because on my servers (Nimue and Guinivere), there were many instances of allying my realm with another to take back relics the strongest realm had gotten from either of us. And sometimes even banding together wasn't enough when the strong side has so much talent and organization to embarass lesser players (see Retribution/Jander/Hod on Nimue, or Xukoth D'Oloth on Guin) but it was at least a better shot at it.

Imagine if they had more formally supported those abilities in-game. Regardless, I can tell you from personal play experience it DOES matter having > 2 sides even without formal in-game support (which would just make it even better and matter more).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on December 10, 2009, 10:42:18 AM
Just to underline that "skill/players/ToA" thing about DAoC - I remember an eight man group taking a keep, and camping in it.  We hit the keep with around 115 players, and every single one of them died within a 15 minute period.

Another memorable fight (that I was not at, but had friends who were) was two groups sitting on the roof of a tower, and waiting for the lord of the tower to die.  Lord dies, entire enemy raid was ported to the roof, AE casters hit their "you can't interrupt me" ability, and almost instantly killed 80+ players.

Neither of those are particularly fun, and it's a given that Mythic should have worked to ensure something like that wasn't possible in their next game.  Which, of course, they did not.  There are plenty more examples of this too, in particular Mythic deciding to give CC and AE fall off effectiveness from the center of it, that they never (to my knowledge) implemented in Warhammer.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on December 10, 2009, 02:04:51 PM
Its been so long since DAoC for me, but I could swear I recall a point where my Hib enchanter's PBAE was changed to honor falloff radius. You had to get more up close and personal to deliver a full blow.

Before falloff, a couple PBAE-ers could hold off an army due to (a) being off-to-the-side where the PBAE radius barely covered the stairs but still delivered a full punch, and (b) PBAE working through stone ballustrades, railings, doors.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on December 10, 2009, 02:50:20 PM
I played a Wiz.  I definitely remember holding keeps with PBAEs in front of doors.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 10, 2009, 03:35:35 PM
I remember people being incredibly stupid about Keep doors and not understanding you could move back half a foot and not be hit by any PBAE's and still hit the door. They would rather die and complain that PBAE shouldn't go through walls while they waited on a Rez.  :awesome_for_real:

3-way worked well in DAoC as far as you could take it.

Since DAoC never added formal support in-game for cross-realm alliance communications or damage prevention due to being temporarily "on the same side", everything from agreeing to coordinate an attack on the stronger realm to avoiding hitting each other at keeps when the eventual fray of all 3 realms converged was just done ad-hoc in Vent, forums, manually avoid targeting or AEing and the like.

Because on my servers (Nimue and Guinivere), there were many instances of allying my realm with another to take back relics the strongest realm had gotten from either of us. And sometimes even banding together wasn't enough when the strong side has so much talent and organization to embarass lesser players (see Retribution/Jander/Hod on Nimue, or Xukoth D'Oloth on Guin) but it was at least a better shot at it.

Imagine if they had more formally supported those abilities in-game. Regardless, I can tell you from personal play experience it DOES matter having > 2 sides even without formal in-game support (which would just make it even better and matter more).

Formally supporting those options in game means you officially have a two side conflict, just with more hoops. Even without formal support, it was still a two sided conflict, one that once you dissolved your alliance, would revert to one realm dominating the other two. This is assuming you have one massively stronger realm against two weaker ones. DaoC's three sides became a joke when it was two stronger realms and a third wheel joke realm.

The base issue isn't the number of sides, but the division of the player base. Any potential RvR game needs to find a way to ensure every side (be it 2, 3, 5, 72) has a equal distribution of players, active players, skilled players and catass players.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on December 10, 2009, 10:20:00 PM
Let's pretend this were possible in DAOC:

There are 6 relics total (2 per realm; one caster-oriented, one melee-oriented for bonuses and such).

If one realm holds 4 relics, the other realms to go into truce mode. Any realm in truce mode has rudimentary communications allowed between any other realm in the same mode.

If one realm holds 5 relics (or 4 relics for more than 3 days), the other realms to go into ally mode. Any relam in ally mode can fully communicate and share alliance chat in addition to anything from above.

If one realm holds all 6 relics (or 5 relics for more than 3 days), the other realms go into unified front mode. Any realm in unfied front mode treats any other realm in the same mode as a friendly unit for damage avoidance and other benefits of "being on the same side" as well as everything form above.


Something like that would help a game like DAoC or RvR-oriented ones to avoid the razor's edge of 1:1 sides. And this is just with 3 sides; the more sides you add with similar rules, the less likley any one realm can hold out for extended periods - but they'll have fun trying.


Edit: Just for grins if one realm holds all 6 relics for more than 3 days, DF opens up to everyone period plus all the benefits above.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 10, 2009, 11:21:10 PM
Great ideas, but Mythic couldn't even get the armor and character visuals to change as you leveled up....


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 10, 2009, 11:23:07 PM
Imagine one realm holds 3 power relics, while the other realm holds 3 strength relics, while the third realm never holds relics outside of the server resets on massive patch/expansions.

The other two realms happily farm the shit out of the third realm any time they want RPs, Keeps or Access to DF. Both content to happily use their specific Relic bonuses to their advantage. The third realm is under manned and couldn't hope to stand against one of the relic realms, let alone both at the same time.

Thrilling multi-front RvR-Action?  :oh_i_see:





Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sjofn on December 11, 2009, 01:44:17 AM
Yeah, Igraine essentially had two sides. I don't mind the notion of more than two sides, so long as people realise that there is a pretty good chance that third side will just be crapped on. Two sides WILL team up against a third, it's just a lot of the time the third one is the one that can least take it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on December 11, 2009, 08:42:22 AM
I think we are taking this 3rd faction thing in too narrow of a discussion. In a battle, yeah, I agree with most of the posts that portray the weaker of the three getting swept off the field of play. However, if you are talking about the entire game with several different objectives to be had, that is the time the third faction utility starts to shine - in that the two juggernaut teams battling it out may have to decide to continue pounding on each other or split and send a few fighters to deal with the other faction raping and pillaging the keeps/towns/farms/livestock owned by said team.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on December 11, 2009, 08:44:56 AM
Yeah, Igraine essentially had two sides. I don't mind the notion of more than two sides, so long as people realise that there is a pretty good chance that third side will just be crapped on. Two sides WILL team up against a third, it's just a lot of the time the third one is the one that can least take it.

It's all how you look at it.  My guild used to move to servers where the third realm was getting stomped.  It gave us a goal.  We moved to Igraine Mid when they were getting stomped and it gave us a wonderfully target-rich place to get consistent pvp action. 

I like the notion of more than 2 realms in any game.  It provides a lot of replay value. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on December 11, 2009, 01:59:24 PM
Yeah, Igraine essentially had two sides. I don't mind the notion of more than two sides, so long as people realise that there is a pretty good chance that third side will just be crapped on. Two sides WILL team up against a third, it's just a lot of the time the third one is the one that can least take it.

It's all how you look at it.  My guild used to move to servers where the third realm was getting stomped.  It gave us a goal.  We moved to Igraine Mid when they were getting stomped and it gave us a wonderfully target-rich place to get consistent pvp action. 

I like the notion of more than 2 realms in any game.  It provides a lot of replay value. 

...wait a minute. Do I know you?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sjofn on December 11, 2009, 02:13:11 PM
It's all how you look at it.  My guild used to move to servers where the third realm was getting stomped.  It gave us a goal.  We moved to Igraine Mid when they were getting stomped and it gave us a wonderfully target-rich place to get consistent pvp action. 

I'm sorry, but your guild was the kind of rerollers I fucking hated on Mid/Igraine. Absolutely useless from a realm war standpoint, and that's what I played DAoC for. And given that's what I played DAoC for, three realms did jack shit to enhance that experience, because the Albs and Hibs could take over our fucking frontier whenever they felt like it. Being the underdog pooped on realm was incredibly demoralizing for the people actually invested in the realm war and the server.

Yes, I am still bitter that we spent at least a month carefully planning a relic raid, having to get basically the entire goddamn realm to log in for it, and having Hibernia take it back less than 24 hours later with a bunch of random ass people who were in our frontier and figured "hey, why not!" We had less people logged in IN TOTAL than they had hitting our keeps.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 11, 2009, 08:55:24 PM
We had infrastructure Sjofn!  :oh_i_see:

I think we are taking this 3rd faction thing in too narrow of a discussion. In a battle, yeah, I agree with most of the posts that portray the weaker of the three getting swept off the field of play. However, if you are talking about the entire game with several different objectives to be had, that is the time the third faction utility starts to shine - in that the two juggernaut teams battling it out may have to decide to continue pounding on each other or split and send a few fighters to deal with the other faction raping and pillaging the keeps/towns/farms/livestock owned by said team.


Except the two juggernaut realms decide to fight in your realm all the time, so anything you could possibly do to their own realms is completely moot, since your own realm is already completely on fire and occupied. To say nothing of the issue that for the third realms strike force can only really hit one of the invading realms at a time, which does nothing to dissuade the other dominant realm from leaving the third realms. The stronger realm is also going to be far more capable of splitting its forces to retake its own territory while still shitting over the third realm.



I like the three side flavor in DaoC, I love the lore and design behind the three realms. It's worth having 3 if only for that, but just splitting your player base in 3, in of itself, is not going to provide any kind of population counter balance.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on December 11, 2009, 09:16:03 PM
Absolutely useless from a realm war standpoint, and that's what I played DAoC for. And given that's what I played DAoC for.

We helped with every relic raid, so I'm not sure what you're so upset about.  Yes, we went there to zerg bust and 8v8 primarily, but we did have our little realm pride moments.

...wait a minute. Do I know you?

You probably knew my toon.  Hell, we may have been in the same vent server together.  Small world, all that.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on December 12, 2009, 03:00:55 AM
Absolutely useless from a realm war standpoint, and that's what I played DAoC for. And given that's what I played DAoC for.

We helped with every relic raid, so I'm not sure what you're so upset about.  Yes, we went there to zerg bust and 8v8 primarily, but we did have our little realm pride moments.


Old drama is old. But, Mid/Igraine was a serial target of reroll gank groups who'd blow in, talk about how things would be better now, etc., and then 2 days later it was 'don't zerg up/follow us, we're only here to 8v8' etc. It happened literally like 10 times. Meanwhile we'd log in every night to a full frontier of captured keeps. It got old pretty fast.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sjofn on December 12, 2009, 03:05:58 AM
Yes, the reroll guilds would help with our extremely rare relic raids (again, we basically needed every 50 to log in to even try), but keeping our frontier clear? Hahahahahahaha. Yeah no.

You MAY have been in the extremely unique snowflake guild that actually helped retake keeps *all the time*, but if you were, it was after I finally gave up the fight. Because there were roughly 15 Mids who would do that even remotely reliably, and I knew all of 'em. And they were not in reroll guilds.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on December 12, 2009, 03:06:51 AM
If the whole economy of the game hadn't been centered around DF access at the time it wouldn't have mattered so much I guess.

EDIT: I should say, some were better/more helpful than others. But the root of the problem was most of the realm saw a situation where we could have put up a fight if we'd been willing to actually all zerg up together, but it would have taken *all* of us. And while I understand intellectually, of course people are entitled to play the game as they want, emotionally it was still annoying to see people running off on their own when if we'd worked completely together we'd have been competitive as a group.

Of course in retrospect that was a pipe dream, given even the people who *tried* to work together would collapse every 3 months over 'too much spam in alliance chat'.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sjofn on December 12, 2009, 03:11:42 AM
I dunno, you could tell it would really bug some people to log in and be like "whelp, we only own one of our keeps. AGAIN." I suppose if I was more interested in Emain it wouldn't have bugged me so much, but it was frustrating, demoralizing, and definitely proved to me that three realms ain't no magic population bullet.

Again, I don't CARE if there are three sides, I just don't pretend it does anything other than create three different sides. :P

EDIT FOR INGMAR'S EDIT: I kinda wonder if we had had a LOT more people if we would've been better at not totally in fighting every three months over shit like that. Part of the issue was we had different personality types that all wanted to RvR that clashed really horribly, but if we wanted to get anywhere, we had to put up with each other.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on December 12, 2009, 03:15:56 AM
Wow who knew we were still so bitter!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sjofn on December 12, 2009, 03:16:28 AM
I did! I even said I was bitter!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 12, 2009, 04:35:02 AM
You want to see bitter? Let me talk about the 'style review'  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sir T on December 12, 2009, 07:42:22 AM
This thread is more entertaining than warhammer!  Moar PVP! :popcorn:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on December 12, 2009, 01:33:23 PM
Five realms worked well in MPBT 3025, but there was only one server and it was a beta.  *tosses more fuel on the fire*


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 12, 2009, 03:43:57 PM
MPBT was going to devolve into the FedSuns vs. the Combine. It also broke combat down into much smaller skirmish chunks if I remember correctly.


In DaoC, if you were outnumbered 5:1, it was literally 50 guys swarming over your 10.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: DLRiley on December 12, 2009, 10:32:13 PM
MPBT was going to devolve into the FedSuns vs. the Combine. It also broke combat down into much smaller skirmish chunks if I remember correctly.


In DaoC, if you were outnumbered 5:1, it was literally 50 guys swarming over your 10.

More like 50 guys swarming over the 3 who bothered to show up.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sjofn on December 13, 2009, 12:43:47 AM
And then posting on the boards about how your realm doesn't really have a population problem, you just need better infrastructure.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 13, 2009, 04:04:21 AM
To be completely fair, your realm totally DID need better infrastructure too!  :awesome_for_real:




/prances around in the cursed forest


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sir T on December 13, 2009, 07:53:40 AM
/prances around in the cursed forest

(http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aacm_prd/on/demandware.static/Sites-WB-Site/Sites-master-catalog/default/v1260704286949/Images/ProductImages/wizgroup02_l.jpg)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 13, 2009, 05:03:28 PM
Needs more Unicorns and Rainbows.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: BitWarrior on December 18, 2009, 11:46:07 AM
Just because there's really no point in starting another thread...

Just a little over a year after release, Amazon is selling Warhammer Online for $9.03 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TD3IA2/ref=s9_tops_bw_tr11?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-10&pf_rd_r=1C31E7H6HSABGX7C94AJ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=502145371&pf_rd_i=409566). The original Warcraft alone is still being sold for $20, 5 years after release.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on December 18, 2009, 12:34:02 PM
Just because there's really no point in starting another thread...

Just a little over a year after release, Amazon is selling Warhammer Online for $9.03 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TD3IA2/ref=s9_tops_bw_tr11?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-10&pf_rd_r=1C31E7H6HSABGX7C94AJ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=502145371&pf_rd_i=409566). The original Warcraft alone is still being sold for $20, 5 years after release.

If that's your metric, Amazon is selling Age of Conan for $6.85. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RZPW9W/ref=s9_simp_gw_s0_p63_t4?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1XMSF6NTGCB1JA94HQ3Z&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846)  I don't see that you can conclude much beyond WoW > ALL and we know that to be truth in terms of sales.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on December 18, 2009, 02:15:22 PM
Just because there's really no point in starting another thread...

Just a little over a year after release, Amazon is selling Warhammer Online for $9.03 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TD3IA2/ref=s9_tops_bw_tr11?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-10&pf_rd_r=1C31E7H6HSABGX7C94AJ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=502145371&pf_rd_i=409566). The original Warcraft alone is still being sold for $20, 5 years after release.

If that's your metric, Amazon is selling Age of Conan for $6.85. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RZPW9W/ref=s9_simp_gw_s0_p63_t4?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1XMSF6NTGCB1JA94HQ3Z&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846)  I don't see that you can conclude much beyond WoW > ALL and we know that to be truth in terms of sales.

Earth and Beyond is still on sale for 29.98 (http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Beyond-PC/dp/B000067O0P/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1261167170&sr=8-1) which makes it twice as good as WAR and AoC combined apparently.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: BitWarrior on December 18, 2009, 02:21:57 PM
You'll happily note I make absolutely no conclusions nor "metrics", I merely was pointing out two facts.

Cheers.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Draegan on December 21, 2009, 03:27:17 PM
Wow Earth and Beyond.  I might be able to find the CB1 installation CD they mailed me at my parents house.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on December 21, 2009, 04:29:19 PM
Just because there's really no point in starting another thread...

Just a little over a year after release, Amazon is selling Warhammer Online for $9.03 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TD3IA2/ref=s9_tops_bw_tr11?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-10&pf_rd_r=1C31E7H6HSABGX7C94AJ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=502145371&pf_rd_i=409566). The original Warcraft alone is still being sold for $20, 5 years after release.

If that's your metric, Amazon is selling Age of Conan for $6.85. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RZPW9W/ref=s9_simp_gw_s0_p63_t4?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1XMSF6NTGCB1JA94HQ3Z&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846)  I don't see that you can conclude much beyond WoW > ALL and we know that to be truth in terms of sales.

Earth and Beyond is still on sale for 29.98 (http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Beyond-PC/dp/B000067O0P/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1261167170&sr=8-1) which makes it twice as good as WAR and AoC combined apparently.

Frye's in Seattle has more than 300 copies of Aion on the shelf and only 10 for WotLK, so I guess they think Aion is 30x more popular than WoW.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: BitWarrior on December 21, 2009, 06:59:32 PM
Frye's in Seattle has more than 300 copies of Aion on the shelf and only 10 for WotLK, so I guess they think Aion is 30x more popular than WoW.  :oh_i_see:

:facepalm:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on December 22, 2009, 04:50:01 PM
300 copies still on the shelf being the operative takeaway.

I don't play Aion or WoW any more.

Edit: And haven't played WAR since last Jan.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 23, 2009, 11:13:42 AM
There was a copy of Hellgate and Tabula Rasa at my local Best buy, each $19.99


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on December 23, 2009, 01:10:07 PM
There was a copy of Hellgate and Tabula Rasa at my local Best buy, each $19.99

You should have given them as gifts to any snotty little kids that you know.  It's like a techie lump of coal. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 23, 2009, 02:27:24 PM
There was a copy of Hellgate and Tabula Rasa at my local Best buy, each $19.99

You should have given them as gifts to any snotty little kids that you know.  It's like a techie lump of coal. 
That's a damned good idea.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on December 23, 2009, 07:00:55 PM
There was a copy of Hellgate and Tabula Rasa at my local Best buy, each $19.99

You should have given them as gifts to any snotty little kids that you know.  It's like a techie lump of coal. 
That's a damned good idea.

Don't forget the "Lifetime Game Card".


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 24, 2009, 12:03:12 AM
Hellgate is still playable offline.

Tab Ras and E&B still for sale makes me  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on January 02, 2010, 11:56:34 PM
Restless Entities Never Sleep -- The Back End of Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4229/sponsored_feature_restless_.php?page=1

Quote
At any given time, approximately 2,000 servers are in operation, supporting the gameplay in WAR. Matt Shaw commented, "What we call a server to the user-that main server is actually a cluster of a number of machines."

"Our Server Farm in Virginia, for example," Mann said, "has about 60 Dell Blade chassis running Warhammer Online-each hosting up to 16 servers. All in all, we have about 700 servers in operation at this location."

 :headscratch:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sheepherder on January 03, 2010, 12:09:29 AM
Redundancy and data storage.  They shouldn't be storing offline accounts in the memory of a running server, right?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on January 03, 2010, 05:22:46 AM
Restless Entities Never Sleep -- The Back End of Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4229/sponsored_feature_restless_.php?page=1

Quote
At any given time, approximately 2,000 servers are in operation, supporting the gameplay in WAR. Matt Shaw commented, "What we call a server to the user-that main server is actually a cluster of a number of machines."

"Our Server Farm in Virginia, for example," Mann said, "has about 60 Dell Blade chassis running Warhammer Online-each hosting up to 16 servers. All in all, we have about 700 servers in operation at this location."

 :headscratch:
Makes perfect sense. Each blade chassis can hold up to 16 blades where each blade is a "server" in the normal sense of the word. So the max capacity at the Virgina facility would be 960 blades or servers but they are only filled with around 700 blades at the time Matt was quoted.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tarami on January 03, 2010, 08:53:28 AM
Also note that one server does not equate to one realm. One realm might be a cluster of 20 servers/blades, all running different parts of the world (like High Elf tier 1) or global routines (like mail). Pretty much any time you get a loading screen in-game, they take the opportunity to shove you off to a different physical or virtual server in order to distribute load more evenly.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on January 04, 2010, 10:50:14 AM
Also note that one server does not equate to one realm. One realm might be a cluster of 20 servers/blades, all running different parts of the world (like High Elf tier 1) or global routines (like mail). Pretty much any time you get a loading screen in-game, they take the opportunity to shove you off to a different physical or virtual server in order to distribute load more evenly.

If that's the case then the need, what, 20 blades :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on January 04, 2010, 01:08:34 PM
Sounds like an ad spin, not a tech article on anything.

I don't blame Intel since they are rightfully pushing their hardware acumen, but this is mostly a WAR-oriented ad, just read the first few paragraphs. Where is the technical info that an Intel-focused article would have?

Seeing as they are listing server locations in the "article", how about they mention 'there are NO Oceanic servers (as of xx/xx/xx)', or the decline in the number of blades/servers/hamster wheels that have obviously occurred over 2009.

Maybe Intel could do an article on the how their blade systems allow for fast, efficient capacity downsizing using WAR as the posterchild. That would be more accurate. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on January 04, 2010, 01:36:03 PM
I'm really surprised that virtualization isn't used, but the number of blades seems insane for the load. I'd really like to see a more tech delve into the management of a big cluster like this such as OS/tools. Such as what EVE dev's post quite frequently.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: KallDrexx on January 04, 2010, 02:53:56 PM
I'm really surprised that virtualization isn't used, but the number of blades seems insane for the load. I'd really like to see a more tech delve into the management of a big cluster like this such as OS/tools. Such as what EVE dev's post quite frequently.

I think in that article they mentioned that all their blades are fully utilized, so virtualization is kind of limited on usefulness in that case.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on January 10, 2010, 06:51:01 PM
From Warhammer Alliance.

WHA News - New year, new plans (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320302)

Quote from: Nattfodd
The new year means new beginnings for Warhammer Alliance. As most of you probably already know I am taking over the position of site manager formerly held by PhoenixRed. And while I'm certainly not looking to jump in and change the site completely, 2010 will still bring a number of changes to WHA.


The biggest change that will easily noticeable by you, the users, will be the greater coverage of the Warhammer universe as a whole. We will be expanding the Warhammer Canon section to include subforums for Dawn of War II, the Table Top games and, when more information is available, the yet unnamed WH40k MMO. We will also be looking for news, avatars and other content to go along with the expanded coverage. I'll have more on the content part at a later date when the details have been nailed down.


There will also be an internal review of the rules and infraction system that we currently have in place. I will be posting a thread for constructive user feedback on these systems soon so please refrain from posting such things in this thread.


Before I conclude I would like to make a couple things very clear. First, the decision to expand coverage to the whole Warhammer universe is not a choice I have made on my own but it is something I have discussed with Curse, PhoenixRed and all of my senior staff members, and we have agreed it is what's best for the site and the community.


And second, our main focus will still be WAR for the foreseeable future. We still are and will continue to be a WAR fansite. There is no hidden commentary in this decision and I am not doing this because I believe WAR to be dying or is not worth focusing my attention on. We simply want to have something for all fans of Warhammer even if they don't play WAR.


That's about it for this post. Please feel free to use this thread to discuss the coverage of other facets of the Warhammer universe, but I remind you not to post rule/infraction feedback here, a thread for that will be coming soon.

Only quoting because I thought the 2nd bold part was funny.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on January 10, 2010, 09:43:57 PM
Makes sense.

Guess having official forums was a good idea then.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on January 22, 2010, 06:59:03 PM
You know how we used to joke about WAR adding more experience bars?

1.3.4 Preview - Weapons, Scenarios and Campaign Changes (Oh My!) (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=dev_discussions&message.id=5142#M5142)

Quote from: Andy Mythic
Folks,
 
Everyone has been asking for more details about 1.3.4. Well, while I can't provide the patch notes, just yet, I can certainly give you a bit more information than what was discussed in Bruce's Producers Letter, including a rough timeline:
 
At this point the plan is to have 1.3.4 on PTS by the first week of February or (at the latest) early the second week of February. Patch notes, of course, will accompany the opening of Warpstone.
We will be introducing an entire new line of weapons earned via RvR (this is the "feature players have been asking for"). These weapons will be purchasable via a vendor and will not be bought using medallions or crests, instead utilizing an entirely new currency system earned via Scenario gameplay from tiers 1-4. More information about these new items and how they're earned will be forthcoming in a Dev Diary with Developer Sean Bosshardt.

Speaking of Scenarios...
We are completely reworking the current structure of Scenarios by removing some of the less popular and streamlining the tiering of Scenarios. There will be more details upcoming in a Dev Diary from Content/RvR Lead Mike Wyatt next month.  
The last tidbit is a change to the way that the campaign functions. Starting with 1.3.4, once a Contested City flips into the Captured state (otherwise called "Stage 2") the Open RvR Campaign will now restart, leaving the realm sieging their enemies city with a tough decision: Stay in the city, possibly defeating your opponent's King, or retreat back to the open field to defend your realm?

So there's a little more meat to some of the changes coming in game update 1.3.4. Obviously we're pretty excited about these items and even more excited to talk about 1.3.5 and beyond in Bruce's next producers letter which will coincide with the launch of 1.3.4 on all live servers. We've had a great 6 months of improving every aspect of WAR and we're more focused than ever on continuing to deliver on what our players want: Fast hitting, skull crushing and engaging Realm vs. Realm combat.
 
There's never been a better time to join the WAR!

Also I guess they are running out of servers to cut to help scenarios pop, so the next logical step is to cut the number of scenarios.

Edit to add, from the same thread

Quote from: Andy Mythic
Folks,
 
Obviously it's a little early to be making a lot of speculation regarding how this will effect RvR, but yes, we would naturally expect to see people playing more scenarios with the two changes above in the weeks following the patch (some of it will be players striving to earn new weapons, partly because of the new Scenario structure, partly because it's a lot of "new shiney" features. Players will still have a reason to participate in ORvR for armor and other set pieces, however this now gives a definitive goal for Scenario gameplay.
 
To address premades vs PUGs: We are not planning to make separate brackets for premades vs PUG's right now. We understand the concerns, however we have never denied that organized groups have an advantage over more disorganized, or PUG, groups.

Interesting as it's not often they actually communicate what they are trying to do.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on January 22, 2010, 07:34:41 PM
I read it more as they need density, and Scenarios are easier given the current population levels to be made denser by doing this.

I doubt there is anything they can do for ORvR to obtain that, so why not jump back on the Scenario bandwagon?

I also doubt there are many ORvR purists left in WAR. They have long since gone. The mere 50% vitriolic response to his announcement on the forums shows that (a) there aren't many left who want an ORvR-centric game, or (b) they just don't care to yelll any more. Hell, a year ago it would be more like 98% hate.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Jherad on January 24, 2010, 01:13:21 PM
Quote
To address premades vs PUGs: We are not planning to make separate brackets for premades vs PUG's right now. We understand the concerns, however we have never denied that organized groups have an advantage over more disorganized, or PUG, groups.

Too late to do anything about that now, as they just don't have the numbers to start splitting the scenario pops in half. That's going to continue to be a nasty feedback loop though - PUGs get rolled by premades, throw their hands up and quit, leaving fewer people to run scenarios making it harder to seperate them out. As the PUGs dry up, the premades run out of easy prey, and also disappear.

/obvious

Game has lasted longer than I thought it would though.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Threash on January 25, 2010, 12:21:13 PM
Quote
To address premades vs PUGs: We are not planning to make separate brackets for premades vs PUG's right now. We understand the concerns, however we have never denied that organized groups have an advantage over more disorganized, or PUG, groups.

Too late to do anything about that now, as they just don't have the numbers to start splitting the scenario pops in half. That's going to continue to be a nasty feedback loop though - PUGs get rolled by premades, throw their hands up and quit, leaving fewer people to run scenarios making it harder to seperate them out. As the PUGs dry up, the premades run out of easy prey, and also disappear.

/obvious

Game has lasted longer than I thought it would though.

I never understood the silly idea that organized groups should not have an advantage.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tuncal on January 25, 2010, 12:25:25 PM
I never understood the silly idea that organized groups should not have an advantage.
PvP is more fun when the sides are balanced. If one side has such an advantage that it will win 90% of the time, why would the other side ever show up?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on January 25, 2010, 12:37:47 PM
They have no choice but to add cross server scenarios at this point, populations are too low to get consistent scenario's to pop


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Jherad on January 25, 2010, 06:35:46 PM
I never understood the silly idea that organized groups should not have an advantage.

Pretty much as per Tuncal above. Organised groups should have an advantage, but if they're constantly steamrolling pugs, fewer people play in pugs - or they start to drop from matches whenever they recognise premade opposing teams, which in turn drives off the premades.

Big constant disparities between sides only work (and uncomfortably at that) when it feels 'intended' (say as part of storyline), and players can put it down to something other than 'skill', eg. monster play.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Threash on January 26, 2010, 11:01:05 AM
I never understood the silly idea that organized groups should not have an advantage.
PvP is more fun when the sides are balanced. If one side has such an advantage that it will win 90% of the time, why would the other side ever show up?

I would understand that completely if it was some sort of game based advantage that made the difference but its ridiculous to want to separate people who play smartly from people who play stupidly.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on January 26, 2010, 11:06:14 AM
I never understood the silly idea that organized groups should not have an advantage.
PvP is more fun when the sides are balanced. If one side has such an advantage that it will win 90% of the time, why would the other side ever show up?

I would understand that completely if it was some sort of game based advantage that made the difference but its ridiculous to want to separate people who play smartly from people who play stupidly.

Because a match between Yaxley Under 15s and Manchester United is no fun for either side. Also if the match is very unbalanced then a lot of players on the losing side simply drop out - the better team don't get their victory and everyone ends up frustrated.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on January 26, 2010, 12:05:15 PM
Warhammer makes the pug vs pre-made battles worse because if the PUG gets steamrolled and basically camped at their spawn not achieving any objectives or getting any kills they literally get nothing for the entire scenario.  Warhammer was horribly scrimpy on giving out reknown points in both RvR and its scenarios.  I can tolerate to some degree getting rolled if I at least get something worth my time in return but being laughed at by the premade while they soak up reknown while I get nothing isnt my idea of good times.  


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: tazelbain on January 26, 2010, 12:40:30 PM
I just want to say how  :oh_i_see: that Mtythic is adding yet another reward system.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on January 26, 2010, 01:44:35 PM
People will not pay $15 to play as punching bags for other people.  Built group vs PUG is exactly that situation, and it always leads to people exiting the game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Draegan on January 26, 2010, 01:52:24 PM
They should just take out all the open world content and just have a camp where you queue for scenarios.  Then limit the open world for the T4 stuff.

Now this is a train wreck worth watching because they keep *trying* and failing.  I love this game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on January 26, 2010, 02:00:31 PM
For any kind of PvP game, you need to reward participation and allow everyone to actually participate.

As the other already said, paying 15 dollars a month to be spawn camped isn't going to fly.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sir T on January 28, 2010, 11:10:55 AM
People will not pay $15 to play as punching bags for other people.

Eve Online would disagree with you  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kageru on January 28, 2010, 11:49:37 AM

No, it would be the same result in Eve. If the only gameplay was forming a PUG and pressing a button, and one of the outcomes was being dropped into the middle of a Goon or IT battle-fleet, people would pretty quickly be looking for a new game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on January 28, 2010, 12:09:15 PM
I thought people paid EvE a sub fee because it was the only way to improve their stats.   :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on February 02, 2010, 01:49:39 PM
On test

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/patchnotes/index.php?id=2010_1-3-4#patch:-1_section:1


* The following Scenarios now make up the regularly-offered list: Nordenwatch, Gates of Ekrund, Mourkain Temple, Phoenix Gate, Highpass Cemetery and Battle for Praag. The breakdown of when these Scenarios are offered is as follows:
* Tier 1
- Nordenwatch
- Gates of Ekrund
* Tier 2
- Nordenwatch
- Gates of Ekrund
- Mourkain Temple
* Tier 3
- Nordenwatch
- Gates of Ekrund
- Mourkain Temple
- Phoenix Gate
- Highpass Cemetery
* Tier 4
- Nordenwatch
- Gates of Ekrund
- Mourkain Temple
- Phoenix Gate
- Highpass Cemetery
- Battle for Praag

They killed off Serpents Passage, Gromril and Grovod Cavern scenarios?   Well not like it will matter since scenarios dont pop anyhow and they have no fix in here for cross server scenarios to try and make them pop faster.  I guess they feel that offering this new scenario system and loot will make people start doing scenarios more so they dont have to make them cross server would be my guess.  /fail



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on February 02, 2010, 02:05:41 PM
Mourkain Temple would suck at high level... so many LoS issues and too little area to move around.  I can't imagine any healers (like I was playing when I quit) wanting to do the smaller BG's at all near cap. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rendakor on February 02, 2010, 02:43:48 PM
I can't remember the names well; did they get rid of the stupid lava one that made T3 so unfun?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Draegan on February 02, 2010, 03:08:02 PM
I liked the smaller scenarios.  The Gates was one of my favorite in tier 1.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kail on February 02, 2010, 03:14:09 PM
I can't remember the names well; did they get rid of the stupid lava one that made T3 so unfun?

Tor Anroc, I think.  Yeah, don't see it there; all the scenarios there are from T1 and T2 except Highpass and Praag.  

Weird choices, though.  Nordenwatch, fine.  Mourkain I can see, since it's basically just deathmatch.  Ekrund I really liked, but never seemed to get any play.  Phoenix gate, though?  Go to hell.  Capture the flag blows hard in melee games, it all boils down to classes with ranged cc > all others, especially given the screwy nature of the collision detection.  Highpass cemetery seems weird; it's one of those games where one enemy who gets past your defense can cap the point in three seconds and hold it long enough to win the game.  It's incredibly frustrating in a pug.  And all the old T4 scenarios seemed boring, Praag included.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on February 02, 2010, 04:46:01 PM
Phoenix gate, though?  Go to hell.  Capture the flag blows hard in melee games, it all boils down to classes with ranged cc > all others, especially given the screwy nature of the collision detection.
Yes and no.  I can't say how it would play past the teens, but when I sat my Swordmaster on the flag, it was rare someone captured it in a fair fight.

I also liked Tor Anroc, although I realize the consensus was it sucked.  Positioning mattered a lot on the map, and if anyone tried to blow me into the lava, they failed then I returned the favor.  I wouldn't use my knockback on the ledges otherwise.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on February 02, 2010, 05:21:01 PM
Tor Anroc and Mourkain Temple were products of the devil's rancid anus. At least Phoenix's Gate required some thought and had multiple ways to skin the cat. Tor Anroc and Mourkain Temple were the equivalent of two roid-raging retards hammering at each other's dicks with sledges.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kail on February 03, 2010, 12:32:09 AM
Yes and no.  I can't say how it would play past the teens, but when I sat my Swordmaster on the flag, it was rare someone captured it in a fair fight.

Yeah, it was rare that someone captured it.  That's part of the problem, games usually ran the timer down on my server.  A half hour (or whatever) of staring at that fucking flag, because if you take your eyes off it for a minute, some Witch Elf is gonna unstealth, grab it, and if you're a step away when she does, you're never catching up.  You'll be a step behind her the whole way back to her base.  And if you are sitting on that flag, nobody's going to try to charge you solo, so matches tended to be either "screw winning, I'm running with the zerg" or looking at a picture of a flag for a half hour.  I tried making a macro that would automatically target the enemy and hit them with my snare so I could just set a roll of quarters on it or something and read a book until something happened.  So yeah, it was not a scenario I had a lot of fun in.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on February 03, 2010, 08:16:19 AM
I'm not sure why all scenarios/BGs whatever have to boil down in to some fuck all stupid version of capture the flag.  I guess its a bit much to expect originality from the MMO bunch.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on February 03, 2010, 08:30:23 AM
People gravitate toward what they are familiar with.  I think capture the flag is a logical BG choice and can be fun depending on implementation.  Where WAR fell down was making the BG that had this element large and at a time in levels where people don't have as much cc as they need to slow the flag thief down. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Typhon on February 03, 2010, 08:53:20 AM
I really liked the cemetery, felt like it encouraged smaller groups of 3-4 people rather than a massive zerg.

I liked the troll one also (can't remember the name), it felt like rugby somehow.  This map also rewarded not running in a zerg, although not as much as the cemetery.

I really wish they would make changes that felt like they would improve this game, I had a good time for the first twenty levels.  I would like to revisit it at some point.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Draegan on February 03, 2010, 10:43:10 AM
Some of the games were actually pretty fun but the maps were terrible.

The cemetery was was pretty cool.  Tor Annoc was a decent game as far as the rules and stuff, but the map was shit.  If you died you had to run too far to get back into the action.  It was just irritating.

Gates of Ekrund was perfect.  Back in the action in under 10 seconds.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on February 03, 2010, 11:31:11 AM
Gates of Ekrund was just a much tinier AB, which really wasn't an improvement in my eyes.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nonentity on February 03, 2010, 01:01:19 PM
Thank god they fucking killed Tor Anroc.

Getting knocked into the pit as a rune priest, then sitting on a stupid rock in the lava spam healing yourself as everyone shot down at you, SO FUN.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sir T on February 03, 2010, 09:26:07 PM
They killed that alter of khaine one? that was fun :(


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Pagz on February 04, 2010, 07:52:09 PM
Quote from: Andy
Yo Dawg,

 

We heard you like currency, so we put some currency in your currency bag so you can spend it while you spend.
I think they realize how silly they're making it. (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=dev_discussions&message.id=5142#M5142)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on February 04, 2010, 07:54:26 PM
What the hell is it with MMO devs and different types of currency? Especially completely separate streams of currency that can't be converted between types?

(Noted: what a lot of MMOs use isn't currency in the strictest sense, but the term is good enough for the question.)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kail on February 04, 2010, 08:37:26 PM
Better: it's currency that can only be obtained from scenarios.  No more of that open RvR stuff that people were so ambivalent about, now we can just run scenarios over and over for the rewards, except it'll be the same scenarios in every tier.  It'll be just like launch, when everyone OH SHIT WAIT WAIT


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Pagz on February 04, 2010, 08:49:34 PM
Better: it's currency that can only be obtained from scenarios.  No more of that open RvR stuff that people were so ambivalent about, now we can just run scenarios over and over for the rewards, except it'll be the same scenarios in every tier.  It'll be just like launch, when everyone OH SHIT WAIT WAIT
They've already said you also gain this "scenario" currency from zone flips and keep sieges.

Which leads me to believe why even have this currency and just make these new weapons use the current crest currency they have, unless they don't want it dropping off players.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sheepherder on February 04, 2010, 09:31:46 PM
What the hell is it with MMO devs and different types of currency?

It allows them to reward certain activities by small increments rather than a random chance at a big payout.  Simultaneously, it allows the player choice in their reward.

Quote
Especially completely separate streams of currency

Allowing them to specify which activities grant which rewards, to place emphasis on certain activities if they so desire.

Quote
that can't be converted between types?

Because the ability to convert the types makes one of the currencies redundant unless there's a tax on conversion, or unless it's one way only.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on February 05, 2010, 10:38:42 AM
It's because any currency that exists for X amount of time in an MMOG is essentially valueless, unless it is being spent faster than it is being earned.  Putting up rewards for any existing currency will mean that some players can buy an entire romper room of them as soon as they log in.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on February 05, 2010, 03:04:59 PM
Im considering going back again to try things out for a bit but my biggest gripe I had when I quit was the dam token drops.  Royal crests for example were hard as hell to get which meant I couldnt get gear upgrades because I was losing rolls to level 35 players who cant use them anyhow, well that and the crappy drop rate.  Basically a rank 80 player can get stalled on gear upgrades because the token system sucked. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rendakor on February 05, 2010, 07:21:02 PM
I can't remember the names well; did they get rid of the stupid lava one that made T3 so unfun?

Tor Anroc, I think.  Yeah, don't see it there; all the scenarios there are from T1 and T2 except Highpass and Praag.  
Thank you. And really, this is probably the best patch note I've ever read about WAR. The god-fucking-awful T3 grind was made so much worse by the fact that TA was the scenario you had to grind.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Setanta on February 05, 2010, 11:12:44 PM
I liked Tor Annroc ... as an Iron Breaker or Engineer.

I had a habit of clling out "fore" before I punted someone :)

I keep thinking I should re-sub and check it out - then I remember the god-awful grind at L32 and live in fear that it will still be as bad/boring.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Pagz on February 06, 2010, 05:21:52 AM
Im considering going back again to try things out for a bit but my biggest gripe I had when I quit was the dam token drops.  Royal crests for example were hard as hell to get which meant I couldnt get gear upgrades because I was losing rolls to level 35 players who cant use them anyhow, well that and the crappy drop rate.  Basically a rank 80 player can get stalled on gear upgrades because the token system sucked. 
The king is being killed a few times a week, so tokens are really a non-issue. Their drop rate has been increased dramatically, however.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sheepherder on February 06, 2010, 06:15:04 PM
It's because any currency that exists for X amount of time in an MMOG is essentially valueless, unless it is being spent faster than it is being earned.  Putting up rewards for any existing currency will mean that some players can buy an entire romper room of them as soon as they log in.

That too.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Pagz on February 07, 2010, 10:36:21 PM
So my severely under warded Ironbreaker got into a king fight last night. This was the first time I'd ever even seen him, so I was excited about how awesome the last fight in the game ever should be.

Unsurprising, it was pretty boring.

Tank hero mob, dodge tornadoes, kill ads, divvy loot.

I don't know what I was expecting, but a tank and spank for the supposedly end game pve encounter, really?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on April 24, 2010, 05:35:37 PM
WAR is everywhere! (Excluding Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao) (http://www.warhammeronline.com.tw/termination.html)

Quote
"Warhammer Online" in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao Agent Banking will be June 17, 2010 was terminated and the services and information for all players transfer to the "Warhammer Online" North American server.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on April 24, 2010, 09:29:38 PM
I guess those 'improvements' from a later launch they were touting for Taiwan didn't pan out.  Maybe they should have spent money on a couple more stars and a little less on sunglasses.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on April 25, 2010, 01:01:20 PM
To be expected. WAR padded its early numbers with expansion into Asia and Russia. Since I'm pretty sure WAR wasn't a hit in those areas (although who knows, perhaps it was big in Bolivia) EA will start cutting those branches out.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: amiable on April 26, 2010, 12:56:03 PM
I re-upped for the free 10 day "come back" trial.  To be honest I am having a surprising amount of fun.  They seemed to have drastically increased xp gain and given folks an incentive to open world PvP.  If they had released the game in this state they may have actually done well.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on April 26, 2010, 01:12:45 PM
I re-upped for the free 10 day "come back" trial.  To be honest I am having a surprising amount of fun.  They seemed to have drastically increased xp gain and given folks an incentive to open world PvP.  If they had released the game in this state they may have actually done well.

Let's see if you still feel this way in Tiers III and IV.  That's where I lost the love. WAY too much cc and AE to make the game enjoyable.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Pringles on April 27, 2010, 10:42:33 PM
I re-upped for the free 10 day "come back" trial.  To be honest I am having a surprising amount of fun.  They seemed to have drastically increased xp gain and given folks an incentive to open world PvP.  If they had released the game in this state they may have actually done well.

Let's see if you still feel this way in Tiers III and IV.  That's where I lost the love. WAY too much cc and AE to make the game enjoyable.

I just leveled a new char to t4. Its way better than when I played at launch, gear is abundant and way easier to get (wards, hurrah).

CC is basically gone from what I see, except stagger which breaks on damage, knockbacks, and knockdown from a couple classes.  Oh, and some roots, and from what I see they all apply the same immunity to all CC, and it actually finally works.

AOE can still be a pain, but they lowered the AOE damage across the board in like 1.3b from research I did before I resubbed, so it doesn't seem that bad to me...

I definitely agree with the "if this game had been launched this way ...." sentiment, if it was launched this way, I doubt I would have ever quit.

Defending keeps is worthwhile, often yielding 2-3x the rewards of attacking, so its not RvE.  Also incoming city siege revamp which seems positive so people will actually get past stage 1 zerg fest.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on April 29, 2010, 02:25:44 PM
http://www.mythicstore.com/

 Re: Mythic store is closed? (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=gd&message.id=3293#M3293)

Quote from: Random Dude
From the Q&A tonight:
 
Question: Why was the Mythic store closed?
 
Answer: It was a business decision, if you have anything specific you were looking for send Andy a PM on the boards and he will look into helping you out.

Not sure what Q&A he's talking about, anyone have a link for that?

Edit to add, Recently uploaded video on You Tube, featuring Paul Barnett (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbyxz-z-d8E) detailing a design feature that 3 people actually found, or as Josh Drescher says "This sort of behaviour in no way impacts our ability to stay on schedule", looks like from before release.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on April 29, 2010, 05:13:55 PM
someone should collect all those WAR promos vids and PB blogs for posterity


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: pxib on April 30, 2010, 02:12:06 AM
Edit to add, Recently uploaded video on You Tube, featuring Paul Barnett (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbyxz-z-d8E) detailing a design feature that 3 people actually found, or as Josh Drescher says "This sort of behaviour in no way impacts our ability to stay on schedule", looks like from before release.
:uhrr:

The sad thing is that everything Barnett says at the end is true, but only applies to games that are already solid and satisfying. No amount of five star quirky will shine up your three star fun. I found that cursed tomb he talked about. I'm sure many Empire players did. I fought the high level monster it summoned and, since I was a warrior priest and because another player wandered in during the fight to help, was barely able to survive it. It dropped nothing special and left me feeling like I'd missed a quest somewhere. I also remember bumbling into a "lair" by accident and seeing some altar and wondering what quest it was for before bumbling out again.

At no point was I as impressed as Paul is with the blinking light on his stereo system.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ollie on April 30, 2010, 03:35:51 AM
The sad thing is that everything Barnett says at the end is true, but only applies to games that are already solid and satisfying. No amount of five star quirky will shine up your three star fun.

Touché. No one gives a crap about you throwing the explorers a bone if your core game scares away three quarters of your player base during the first three months.

I know I'm a sad git for playing the perfect hindsight game, but watching that video, it's like they were painting a house that's on fire; a bunch of well-intentioned but ultimately misplaced effort.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on April 30, 2010, 12:00:10 PM
The fun to explorers was pretty limited.  I had a bit by wandering around places I wasn't supposed to see, but other than Tomb entries and my one lovely PvP outting, it was mostly boring.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on April 30, 2010, 04:05:27 PM
The April producers letter is up!

Quote from: http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1086
We’ll be hosting our regular developer Q&A sessions after some of the tests, so please take the opportunity to jump on our Ventrilo server (ventrilo1.eamythic.com port 3960, the password updates with each test) and ask questions of some of the Mythic developers.

:grin:

Quote
Well, here’s the bombshell: By 1.3.6 players will have the capability to play as both Order and Destruction on the same server. 

Incoming mergers!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on May 01, 2010, 02:44:25 AM
That's pretty much the ball game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Draegan on May 02, 2010, 11:35:52 PM
Wow.  You can get into vent and chat with the one or two devs left?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on May 02, 2010, 11:41:07 PM
Sure.  They're lonely and anyone left playing probably knows the other three players...


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on May 03, 2010, 07:26:11 AM
OMG just pull the plug


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: raydeen on May 03, 2010, 09:52:23 PM
OMG just pull the plug

Don't say that. That would be like losing Bush as president all over again. There's still some comedy gold in them thar hills.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: amiable on May 05, 2010, 01:01:22 PM
I actually re-upped for a month I had such a good time on my free trial.  The game is definitely dying though, but with all the action concentrated onto a few high-pop servers you actually get to fight.  They also did quite a bit to tone down the annoying crowd control, but also seemed to have made added ridiculous gear disparities. 

In any case too little, too late, but I will enjoy it while I can.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on May 05, 2010, 04:21:23 PM
Mythic has made all the same mistakes in WAR that they made in DaoC, they just did it on a faster timetable in WAR. It took like 3-4 years to reach this point in DaoC.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Aez on May 06, 2010, 08:54:09 AM
I actually re-upped for a month I had such a good time on my free trial.  The game is definitely dying though, but with all the action concentrated onto a few high-pop servers you actually get to fight.  They also did quite a bit to tone down the annoying crowd control, but also seemed to have made added ridiculous gear disparities. 

In any case too little, too late, but I will enjoy it while I can.



I didn't know they messed up crowd control (never bothered with that game).  Crowd control was the number one issue with DAOC at release. I can't believe they haven't learn the lesson.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on May 06, 2010, 09:00:05 AM
I actually re-upped for a month I had such a good time on my free trial.  The game is definitely dying though, but with all the action concentrated onto a few high-pop servers you actually get to fight.  They also did quite a bit to tone down the annoying crowd control, but also seemed to have made added ridiculous gear disparities. 

In any case too little, too late, but I will enjoy it while I can.



I didn't know they messed up crowd control (never bothered with that game).  Crowd control was the number one issue with DAOC at release. I can't believe they haven't learn the lesson.  :uhrr:

2 of the major issues with WAR were CC and AE.  For months the common tactic for groups was pull people into 1 spot, AE the spot and root / cc and everyone that got pulled had to just stand there and die.  They did eventually fix CC and AE but it took a year +


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brogarn on May 06, 2010, 09:24:35 AM
I paid for a month of this a couple of weeks ago and got bored already. I love the classes in this game but the game itself is just repetitive and meh. Especially the RvR, which is the real kick to the balls. Can't believe I adamantly defended it at one time. I had one time in my 2 week adventure that I can recall as being fun and awesome. A brawl in the Nordenwatch SC where both sides had their shit together. I was on my little Zealot and it was friggin intense. 99% of the rest of the time I was there, I was mostly just going through the motions. So, I'm done. It's not worth it for 1% of coolness. Trying out AoC again instead.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on May 08, 2010, 06:44:05 AM
GamesWorkshop Files Suit Against Curse (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326733)
Quote from: DoranM
We wanted to inform our  community  here on WarhammerAlliance.com that Games Workshop has filed lawsuit  against Curse for operating and maintaining WarhammerAlliance.com. We  feel this is a blatant disregard of the needs of Warhammer fans, and  the community we've worked hard to set up. The lawsuit cites trademark  infringement, cybersquatting (on the domain name), dilution and unfair  competition. You can check out the full complaint  here (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/legal/Complaint.pdf). It also states that GamesWorkshop was unable to contact anyone  who was an administrator or decision makers at Curse (despite the  numerous  links on our site...).

We are shocked and surprised  by this filing when this site, created in 2005, is well known for being  one of the biggest Warhammer Online game fansite.

We thank you for reading this  and welcome your continued support - see you in game!
:headscratch:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on May 08, 2010, 08:02:46 AM
GW have always been pretty aggressive about protecting their IP. Any domain name containing one of their trademarks used in a commercial site has to be licenced from them or they'll sue.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on May 08, 2010, 08:09:41 AM
Oh, that's just awesome. For realz.

Internet lawyer time: apart from the contact bit and having to answer the question, "Warhammer Alliance has been running for years, so why did you wait until now?" I'd say that Games Workshop probably has enough to run with. Warhammer is their trademarked IP and fair use on a fansite has generally appeared to be up the discretion of the IP holder (mainly because I'm guessing most fansites don't appear to have the resources to fight something like this).

But here's the thing: Games Workshop just killed all their MMO fansites for this and for the 40K title. Why would you create a Warhammer fansite when the threat of Games Workshop taking legal action against you hangs overhead? You wouldn't.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on May 08, 2010, 08:13:32 AM
Oh, that's just awesome. For realz.

Internet lawyer time: apart from the contact bit and having to answer the question, "Warhammer Alliance has been running for years, so why did you wait until now?" I'd say that Games Workshop probably has enough to run with. Warhammer is their trademarked IP and fair use on a fansite has generally appeared to be up the discretion of the IP holder (mainly because I'm guessing most fansites don't appear to have the resources to fight something like this).

But here's the thing: Games Workshop just killed all their MMO fansites for this and for the 40K title. Why would you create a Warhammer fansite when the threat of Games Workshop taking legal action against you hangs overhead? You wouldn't.



You can as long as you aren't making a commercial site using a GW trademark in the domain name.

Curse is a commercial network so they'd need to ask permission/pay GW to use the Warhammer name in one of their domains. Apparently they didn't (and yes, I know they bought WHA from the original admins after it had already been set up).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kail on May 08, 2010, 09:54:59 AM
You can [make a Warhammer fan site] as long as you aren't making a commercial site using a GW trademark in the domain name.

Is that the Law or GW policy?  I was under the impression that legally, that kind of thing was kind of irrelevant.  Copyright infringement is copyright infringement, whether you're charging $100 for a bootleg copy of Avatar or giving it away for free.  And 99% of the internet makes some kind of money, even f13 has those donation links up in the corner.  I don't visit WHA often, but what's the site doing that your average fansite wouldn't be doing, aside from being successful?

And regardless, I don't know that your average Warhammer fan is going to be making those kinds of distinctions.  If you're making a Warhammer fansite, you're not going to be looking at how to qualify as a non-profit site under act IV subclause 26 or whatever.  You're going to see the biggest Warhammer fan site on the web get hit with a mallet and think "that could be me."

And why fucking now?  If they'd tried this when WAR was fresh, I can see it as defending their brand, but suing a Warhammer fan site at this point seems kind of like trying to shoot a suicide jumper before he hits the ground.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: garthilk on May 08, 2010, 10:18:11 AM
Hmm,

Let me go down my checklist.
  • Games Workshop has been aware of the site since 2005.
  • Warhammer Alliance has always been a commercial site with ads since 2005.
  • Games Workshops Licensing Manager helped promote the site in 2006.
  • Good luck proving damages. Let me show you the metrics how the site promoted the product.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4666095#post4666095

Quote
Heya Folks,

For those of you whom do not know me, my name is Shelby Cardozo and arguably I'm the founder of Warhammer Alliance. I figured I'd pop out of the shadows and clear up some misinformation about the site, it's history, and my dealings with Games Workshop.

Lets rewind to 2004 and remember the old Warhammer Online that was canceled by Climax Entertainment. Well in late 2004, there was a Warhammer community that refused to die (WarhammerOnlineForums.com). Unfortunately however, the site admin for the WOF was on hiatus and slowly the site was having problems and the community was on the rocks.

Enter 2005 and Mythic Entertainment. It was early 2005, soon after my Imperator fansite was sunk that I offered to help out the WOFs. Specifically, I'd relaunch the site as Warhammer Alliance. The site was relaunched around August 2005 and believe it or not, the site had ads on it back then. Specifically, I knew that the site was going to get big and I knew that in order to keep the servers running when the site got big, that ad revenue would be required. So, the site was launched (with ads) and we all looked forward to a new Warhammer Online.

Things went fantastic. The community, the developers, we were all so excited. The site was growing and the community was having a blast getting excited all over again. Fast forward to late 2005 and an interesting phone and email conversation I had with Sanya Weathers of Mythic Entertainment and Erik Mogensen, the Licensing Manager for Games Workshop.

The topic of discussion, we didn't have a proper disclaimer at the bottom of the site. So, I worked with Sanya and Erik to ensure we met standards that all parties would be happy with. We settled on the same footer you see today. "This web site is completely unofficial and in no way endorsed by Games Workshop Limited or Mythic Entertainment." And an added a link to a longer disclaimer.

This footer and disclaimer was agreed to by Games Workshop, the Licensing Manager and Mythic Entertainment.

Things seemed to be going great. In fact Erik even registered here at the site and granted us a some interviews. Read that again. Games Workshop was helping promote the site by doing interviews with us back in 2006. Here is a link to Eriks first interview.

Now, fast forward to today.

Games Workshop is suing Warhammer Alliance. Now, I'm not a Rocket Surgeon, but this lawsuit smells like Greenskin dung to me. In the suit they allege that they just became aware of the site. But they were promoting it in 2006, 4 years ago?

You see folks, Warhammer Alliance, even today is a news site. The staff here do Warhammer news reporting, original news and commentary. In the same way that AppleInsider.com covers apple products, WarhammerAlliance.com covers Warhammer Online. This lawsuit is really just a gross perversion of trademark law and I hope that Curse puts up a fight.

But hey, that's just me. You guys are free to form your own opinions.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on May 08, 2010, 10:20:35 AM
Hey!  It's THAT guy


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on May 08, 2010, 10:31:29 AM
I guess someone muzzled Barnett so he couldn't do his damnedest to ruin the game, so Games Workshop had to pick up the slack.  We should be grateful, really.  The amount of entertainment we got for $100 million and maybe a box sale has been totally worth it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Segoris on May 08, 2010, 10:52:34 AM
You can as long as you aren't making a commercial site using a GW trademark in the domain name.

Curse is a commercial network so they'd need to ask permission/pay GW to use the Warhammer name in one of their domains. Apparently they didn't (and yes, I know they bought WHA from the original admins after it had already been set up).

This is how I understand it as well. Though I'm with Lant and appreciative of the free entertainment, since either way we all win :popcorn:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on May 08, 2010, 11:26:46 AM
But here's the thing: Games Workshop just killed all their MMO fansites for this and for the 40K title. Why would you create a Warhammer fansite when the threat of Games Workshop taking legal action against you hangs overhead? You wouldn't.

You can as long as you aren't making a commercial site using a GW trademark in the domain name.

Curse is a commercial network so they'd need to ask permission/pay GW to use the Warhammer name in one of their domains. Apparently they didn't (and yes, I know they bought WHA from the original admins after it had already been set up).

I know, but the problem if you want to link the site to your game of choice, you usually try to pick something that is close to it and often that will end up being a trademarked term.

You can be clever, of course - I'm aware of a Batman fan club that DC threatened at some point about using their registered characters (i.e. Batman) in their name. The group ended up calling themselves Battalion (googled and couldn't see them, which might mean they don't exist anymore) which was far enough away to satisfy DC.

Let's think about the WH 40K title. You want to make a fansite for it, ala WHAlliance. Anything "Warhammer" or "40K" is out - this fansite here (http://warhammer40konline.net/) is obviously concerned. So is "Space Marines" or "Blood Chapter" etc etc. Especially if GW goes the "40K is our IP and can't be used without our permission!". End result - fewer fansites because no-one wants to get a cease and desist letter. The larger networks will still go for it, but independent operators - especially those thinking they'll make some cash out of the site, or even make it revenue neutral - won't.

GW doing this to WAR is nothing, since the chapter is pretty much written on that title; my dark glee is that they've managed to blacken PR for their next MMO before it has even had its proper launch.

LinkedIn indicates that there is a new Head of Licensing at GW (http://www.linkedin.com/companies/games-workshop). That's probably where the change comes in.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on May 08, 2010, 11:38:11 AM
Wow is this ever a kick in the balls. Wonder if WAR was doing really well if this lawsuit would even be going forward. Guess they have to make up for lost coin somewhere. Not sure why you would cull any fansite that functioned as your "official" forums for so long. I am surprised....


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on May 08, 2010, 11:57:50 AM
Nelson has been working in the licensing department for years now as Erik Mogenson's second in command. It's not a completely new guy taking a look around an unfamiliar landscape.

There are plenty of GW fansites around that use trademarked names such as The Warhammer Forum (http://www.warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/index.php). Those guys aren't going to get a C&D letter because it's not a commercial site and no-one is making money off GW's IP without permission.

I'm sympathetic to the situation at WHA and it definitely sounds like someone somewhere has made a bad call but this isn't a crusade against fansites.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on May 08, 2010, 04:48:16 PM
Nelson has been working in the licensing department for years now as Erik Mogenson's second in command. It's not a completely new guy taking a look around an unfamiliar landscape.

There are plenty of GW fansites around that use trademarked names such as The Warhammer Forum (http://www.warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/index.php). Those guys aren't going to get a C&D letter because it's not a commercial site and no-one is making money off GW's IP without permission.

I'm sympathetic to the situation at WHA and it definitely sounds like someone somewhere has made a bad call but this isn't a crusade against fansites.

I completely agree. I see the point of allowing one - allow all problems and trying to avoid them. I just find it appalling they choose NOW to do anything about it. Christ WHA has been around for what 6 years? What took so long?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on May 08, 2010, 04:59:24 PM
It's probably the fact that the business model for WHA has changed quite a lot since Shelby founded the site and since Erik Mogenson gave them that interview. A fan site supported by ads is a different thing to a fully commercial site operated by a for-profit corporation.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on May 08, 2010, 05:57:04 PM
It's probably the fact that the business model for WHA has changed quite a lot since Shelby founded the site and since Erik Mogenson gave them that interview. A fan site supported by ads is a different thing to a fully commercial site operated by a for-profit corporation.
In the US that makes no difference in terms of trademark infringement. In the US you can lose your trademark's protected status by not going after infringers regardless of whether or not the infringers are making money off the infringement. However given Shelby's post and assuming he still has emails and other documentation regarding the early history it seems pretty clear that the site had permission from GW to use the trademark(s) on the site. If the site's use of those trademarks has changed since then GW might have a case but a change in the business model of the site independent of trademark usage does not change whether or not trademarks are being infringed.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: garthilk on May 08, 2010, 11:24:56 PM
Interestingly enough folks,

WHA isn't the only site reciving legal letters from GW in the past year. There are several Blood Bowl sites that haven't just gotten off the ground in the last year have had to shut down due to threats. Not to mention this pretty much chills out a lot of enthusiasm for any 40k Online fansites that might have been brewing. To say this is an isolated incident would be false.

Secondly, using a trademark in a domain name is not a violation of the trademark. There are sites like AppleInsider.com that operate, using a trademark, generate revenue for ads and is owned by a for profit company.

So lets look at this again,
  • WHA does not dilute GW, All forms of news reporting and news commentary are exempt.
  • Only commercial competitors can be engaged in "unfair competition."
  • WHA clearly enhances the trademark and has the metrics to prove it.
  • GW have abandoned the mark or acquiesced in its misuse, as they have been aware of it's use since 2005
  • Warhammer Alliance has Legitimate Interests in the trademark as a domain name as part of nominative use.
  • WHA falls under Non-competing or Non-confusing Use

Courts have found that non-misleading use of trademarks in URLs and domain names of critical websites is fair. (Bally Total Fitness Holding Corp. v. Faber, URL http://www.compupix.com/ballysucks; Bosley Medical Institute v. Kremer, domain name www.bosleymedical.com). Companies can get particularly annoyed about these uses because they may make your post appear in search results relating to the company, but that doesn't give them a right to stop you.

Sometimes, you might use a trademark without even knowing someone claims it as a trademark. That is permitted as long as you're not making commercial use in the same category of goods or services for which the trademark applies. Anyone can sell diesel fuel even though one company has trademarked DIESEL for jeans. Only holders of "famous" trademarks, like CocaCola, can stop use in all categori.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on May 09, 2010, 02:30:45 AM
Copyright infringement is copyright infringement

This isn't a copyright case, it is a trademark case. Different beast entirely.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on May 09, 2010, 07:15:31 AM
Interestingly enough folks,

WHA isn't the only site reciving legal letters from GW in the past year. There are several Blood Bowl sites that haven't just gotten off the ground in the last year have had to shut down due to threats. Not to mention this pretty much chills out a lot of enthusiasm for any 40k Online fansites that might have been brewing. To say this is an isolated incident would be false.

There's some editorialising going on here. FUMBBL was sent a cease and desist letter for offering online multiplayer Blood Bowl software. As Cyanide Studios have to pay GW licencing fees to do that then GW is pretty much obliged to act in that case. The other sites that have received C&D letters in recent times that I'm aware of are BoardGameGeek and LibrariumOnline both of which were repackaging GW assets and redistributing them as fan material. That's not quite the same thing as simply chasing down anyone with the word Warhammer in their domain name. There are a lot of fan-sites for GW products that use GW trademarks in their domain names who have clarified their situation with GW legal and been given an explicit green light, I participate in a number of them and I've been part of the discussions over GW policy with the admins and owners.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on May 09, 2010, 12:27:07 PM
It's probably the fact that the business model for WHA has changed quite a lot since Shelby founded the site and since Erik Mogenson gave them that interview. A fan site supported by ads is a different thing to a fully commercial site operated by a for-profit corporation.

That's true, but it doesn't look true to people who have always just logged in to Warhammer Alliance.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Jherad on May 10, 2010, 01:17:17 AM
Heh, so will GW start to 'license' the use of its trademarks in domain names, on rolling contracts to be revoked if they don't like what the site is saying about them?

I'd be surprised if WHA's tumultuous relationship with Mythic after WAR's launch didn't have much to do with this.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kodan on May 10, 2010, 12:08:54 PM
I think the one thing that everyone  other than Iainc fails to realize in this situation is that the ORIGINAL holder of the permissions given for WHA  is NO LONGER the owner. The minute he SOLD ownership to Curse the permissions for use were no longer valid(at least every licensing agreement that I have ever seen has made provision for the revokation of the license if the company changes ownership). Then add to the fact that in 2009 Curse started pushing premium paid membership services and there is where you have the problem....

 If Curse had attempted to refresh their agreement with GW when they acquired the site things would be different. The minute they started tying the WHA site to their premium subscription system it became a commercial venture and they are in effect using the GW IP in an attempt to drive sales/memberships in their program. Its pretty cut and dry actually. They FORCED GW to act in this case. Its not them being bullies guys its just something GW had to do or as some of you mentioned they lose their property...

AGAIN the issue is previous permission to someone who no longer owns the site is not transferable and then when they added the sub thing that created the issue warranting the legal matters WHA is involved in now. Oh and the fact that curse took over in 2009 is why they are saying WHA came to be in 2009. Since the new company took over that version/owner/whatever you want to call it of WHA became a new entity in the eyes of the law.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on May 10, 2010, 03:00:17 PM
The failure isn't that we don't realize the legalities of it... it's that it will have a chilling effect on the plebeians who don't -- all those people thinking of running or participating in a fan site, i.e. the people most interested in Games Workshops titles.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on May 10, 2010, 03:07:13 PM
The failure isn't that we don't realize the legalities of it... it's that it will have a chilling effect on the plebeians who don't -- all those people thinking of running or participating in a fan site, i.e. the people most interested in Games Workshops titles.

But that isn't correct AT ALL. Did you read the post above yours? it has nothing to do with the random people wanting to start up a fan site (like say, IGN or the countless others)

Part of the lawsuit has to do with Curse gaming selling premium memberships to the site starting in 2009. GW didn't care about WHA back in 2005 when it started, because they were not selling premium memberships and had gotten the OK from GW for their website.

Again, this does not deter fans from making fansites. It DOES deter fans from making fansites with the intent of selling 'premium' memberships using a GW IP without GW's approval.


HOWEVER, that isn't what a majority of this lawsuit is about. GW is more upset with the domain name and that Curse is cyber-squatting on it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on May 10, 2010, 03:10:22 PM
what about making AdSense $ from traffic to a GW fansite?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kail on May 10, 2010, 06:27:09 PM
HOWEVER, that isn't what a majority of this lawsuit is about. GW is more upset with the domain name and that Curse is cyber-squatting on it.

We're not arguing (for the most part) about what the lawsuit is about.  We're not lawyers, we don't know or care.  We're arguing about what this means for the people in the bleachers.  I don't think most of the spectators are seeing this as GW bravely defending their good name, so much as GW bringing the sledgehammer of the law to bear on a fan site because they violated some technicality of trademark law.  There are things GW could have done before they brought the thing to court, discussed something with WHA, worked out some kind of deal.  And it's possible they tried, but the way it's being described here sounds more like a huge corporation bringing cannons to bear on people who should be their biggest fans.  That's not good.  It might be legal (probably is, since I can't imagine why you'd do this otherwise), but still looks nasty to anyone who's contemplating starting a fansite who doesn't know much about trademark law (I.E. most of them).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sheepherder on May 10, 2010, 08:07:48 PM
They also could have done this when the premium account system went active.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ollie on May 11, 2010, 05:27:11 AM
GW has toed a hard line with its intellectual properties for as long as I can remember. From a business standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Enforcing exclusive rights is a vital part of maintaining a healthy brand and protecting both the owner as well as authorized licensees.

I doubt anyone is suggesting GW should allow fansites to profit from rights violations without recourse. For many, the issue is not that GW is bringing down the law, but the manner in which it goes about doing it. For all their monetary clout, they have the PR finesse of a rutting rhinoceros. GW is like the school bully, towering over his whimpering peers and yelling, "Don't you play with my train set!" I wouldn't be surprised if they had a banner with "better to be feared than loved" emblazoned with fiery letters hanging on their big wall of business practices.

Not exactly the best way to win hearts and minds, but I guess GW is comfortable with taking a calculated PR hit.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on May 11, 2010, 08:46:53 AM
GW has toed a hard line with its intellectual properties for as long as I can remember. From a business standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Enforcing exclusive rights is a vital part of maintaining a healthy brand and protecting both the owner as well as authorized licensees.

I doubt anyone is suggesting GW should allow fansites to profit from rights violations without recourse. For many, the issue is not that GW is bringing down the law, but the manner in which it goes about doing it. For all their monetary clout, they have the PR finesse of a rutting rhinoceros. GW is like the school bully, towering over his whimpering peers and yelling, "Don't you play with my train set!" I wouldn't be surprised if they had a banner with "better to be feared than loved" emblazoned with fiery letters hanging on their big wall of business practices.

Not exactly the best way to win hearts and minds, but I guess GW is comfortable with taking a calculated PR hit.


Another nail in the proverbial coffin for WAR. I get it, the business plan changed on their fansites, but they have an entrenched die-hard WAR community - I just have to wonder who lunch this will actually end up eating - my vote is Mythic's. Doesn't GW make most of its coin from the TT stuff anyway and the MMO is just milk money?

edit: brain dead this morning...


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: KallDrexx on May 11, 2010, 09:25:53 AM
Another nail in the proverbial coffin for WAR. I get it, the business plan changed on there fansites, but they have an entrenched die-hard WAR community - I just have to wonder who lunch this will actually end up eating - my vote is Mythic's. Doesn't GW make most of its coin from the TT stuff anyway and the MMO is just milk money?

Yeah I highly doubt GW is making bank off of WHO licensing fees.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on May 11, 2010, 09:52:28 AM
Another nail in the proverbial coffin for WAR. I get it, the business plan changed on there fansites, but they have an entrenched die-hard WAR community - I just have to wonder who lunch this will actually end up eating - my vote is Mythic's. Doesn't GW make most of its coin from the TT stuff anyway and the MMO is just milk money?

Yeah I highly doubt GW is making bank off of WHO licensing fees.

They probably were making a significant amount. It depends on how the licencing structure worked - generally it's either a flat fee per month (unlikely for a project of this scale) or a per server cost. Subscriber numbers or even receipts aren't a big part of the total.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on May 11, 2010, 10:15:47 AM
NB: I see signs of the death of WAR in all things.

However, would this be the kind of thing that GW would pull if they knew WAR was closing in the near future? See if they can get some more $ out of a site and if it closes, no big loss?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on May 11, 2010, 10:22:51 AM
I think you're reading too much into it. I very much doubt that the situation with WAR is at all relevant to GW's decision, it's all about Curse.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on May 11, 2010, 10:51:30 AM
I'm pretty sure the powers that be at Games Workshop don't give two shits about the MMO properties, so long as the licensing fees keep coming in. It's not like they fronted the money to build the thing, or have any real stake in the game succeeding other than brand integrity. As long as the game is open, they get their fee.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: garthilk on May 11, 2010, 08:54:24 PM
Part of the lawsuit has to do with Curse gaming selling premium memberships to the site starting in 2009. GW didn't care about WHA back in 2005 when it started, because they were not selling premium memberships and had gotten the OK from GW for their website. Again, this does not deter fans from making fansites. It DOES deter fans from making fansites with the intent of selling 'premium' memberships using a GW IP without GW's approval.
Again,

Completely inaccurate. WHA sold premium forum memberships back in 2007. The same year GW was still doing interviews with the site.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: KallDrexx on May 12, 2010, 10:41:57 AM
They probably were making a significant amount. It depends on how the licencing structure worked - generally it's either a flat fee per month (unlikely for a project of this scale) or a per server cost. Subscriber numbers or even receipts aren't a big part of the total.

Well I meant in the grand scheme of GW's income, I don't really see Warhammer being that big compared to GW's other sources of revenue.

But I am curious.  How would a per server cost work?  Does that mean that EA would have to pay per physical server or per "shard"?  It seems you have more potential on subscriber royalties, or at least it makes more sense to me (someone who has no experience with these types of deals).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on May 12, 2010, 09:34:05 PM
I hope it isn't a per shard / server kind of deal, because that would see the closing of servers / shards as a money saving bonus. Or Mythic's early ramp-up on servers being something that looks increasingly poorly thought out.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on May 13, 2010, 08:59:58 AM
Typically it's per shard because the number of machines running a 'game server' is pretty mutable. Again, I don't know the specifics of the GW/Mythic deal, I'm simply speculating on licencing structures that I've seen in action elsewhere.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on May 19, 2010, 08:28:22 PM
Patch 1.3.5 came out today, and all the servers are down due to problems lol

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1095


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: raydeen on May 19, 2010, 11:00:58 PM
Let's see...we've got a game that's utter fail, we can't even roll out a working patch...how can we smarten ourselves up and not look like utter buffoons...I KNOW! LET'S PARAPHRASE WHAT IS POSSIBLY THE CHEESIEST 80'S SONG EVAR TO PROMOTE OUR GAME!!!

Mythic proportions.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on May 20, 2010, 12:57:49 AM
Let's see...we've got a game that's utter fail...

That's the tragedy. The game didn't have to be a total fail.  There were some components of this game that were very good.  Sadly, they were overshadowed by a severe lack of focus and an unimaginative tapestry of tacked on gameplay elements laced with a soul-crushing grind. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Threash on May 20, 2010, 03:03:40 PM
Let's see...we've got a game that's utter fail...

That's the tragedy. The game didn't have to be a total fail.  There were some components of this game that were very good.  Sadly, they were overshadowed by a severe lack of focus and an unimaginative tapestry of tacked on gameplay elements laced with a soul-crushing grind. 

There was a lot of good in this game, so much potential thrown away.  I loved the classes, a lot of the scenarios were very fun, i liked parts of their siege and open world pvp.  But everything was wrapped in so much shit you couldn't just pick out the good parts and enjoy them.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on May 20, 2010, 03:25:24 PM
Those changes look mostly good.  A pity they're probably not enough to get people to come back, but that'd require NGE levels of redo at this point.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on May 20, 2010, 04:48:33 PM
Don't forget the real gamebreaker: it periodically costs 800 dollars. This game could grant eternal life and I wouldn't fucking touch it because of that.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on May 20, 2010, 05:31:34 PM
Of course.  I was toying with the notion of re-upping DAoC right before the overcharging, but that put paid to any notion of my ever paying Mythic a red cent.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: March on May 20, 2010, 07:19:27 PM
Don't forget the real gamebreaker: it periodically costs 800 dollars. This game could grant eternal life and I wouldn't fucking touch it because of that.

Sounds like you don't know the value of a dollar.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on May 20, 2010, 08:31:17 PM
It's about how much I'm paying NOW


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soukyan on May 24, 2010, 09:18:18 PM
Let's see...we've got a game that's utter fail...

That's the tragedy. The game didn't have to be a total fail.  There were some components of this game that were very good.  Sadly, they were overshadowed by a severe lack of focus and an unimaginative tapestry of tacked on gameplay elements laced with a soul-crushing grind. 

Perhaps on release, but I've been playing for a good 6 months now, and I disagree. I have never played an MMOG where characters level faster. 1-40 in 4 days played. Perhaps there are others that level that fast now, but I don't know. Now, mind you, that's 1-40 with renown at 34 in 4 days played. To get to renown 80 will take much longer, but no worries there because RvR is quite fun for me. For others, it may not be, but especially with the last patch, things have gotten better. The jury is still out on whether or not Sorcerers and Bright Wizards still stomp groups. In my encounters against BWs, I've seen a lot less of them and the ones I do see are no longer specced for AoE bombing. It's not anywhere near as efficient as before.

My Sorcerers damage seems a bit lower and slower, but I'll need to see how it pans out. Re-adjusting to an old spec. A friend and I are going to try to mirror specs between his BW and my Sorc as he claims his damage is way up now. We shall see. But I ramble...

Overall, I have a very fun time playing this game. It reminds me a lot of DAoC with the RvR, but the classes are just unique enough to offer a nice change from the usual fantasy fare. The trappings are still there, but the duties are spread around a bit differently and the play mechanics of the classes add a nice touch of challenge.

So yes, perhaps from a subscriber perspective, the game has failed. But from my play perspective, I can't think of another MMOG I enjoy more at this point. DAoC and WAR have spoiled me. Their RvR implementations (a nod to SB for their implementation of PvP as well) are what I think MMOGs should be focused on.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on May 24, 2010, 11:45:17 PM
Perhaps on release, but I've been playing for a good 6 months now, and I disagree. I have never played an MMOG where characters level faster. 1-40 in 4 days played. Perhaps there are others that level that fast now, but I don't know. Now, mind you, that's 1-40 with renown at 34 in 4 days played.

DAoC is about 18-24 hours played to cap (longer depending on class).  GW you can have a cap level toon ready for pvp immediately, but will be less than optimal.  In a day you can get it modestly geared and skilled.  Both GW and DAoC were better PvP MMO's.  We can also add EvE to the list... don't want to omit that one.

I may have to revisit WAR.  I enjoyed my shaman and zealot enough that giving them a second look may be worth $15.  Sadly, without a regular group to play with I fear the PUGs would be frightening.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on May 25, 2010, 01:06:37 AM
When did that happen to DAOC? o.O


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on May 25, 2010, 02:52:13 AM
When did that happen to DAOC? o.O


Like 3 years ago? Even excluding the super power leveling group or whatever, most combat classes can churn out those solo instance dungeon quest things ridiculously easy for very fast XP.

It's totally soul crushingly boring, to a point where you fucking wonder why the game has levels at all anymore, but it is indeed very fast.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on May 25, 2010, 11:11:25 AM
It's comically fast to level in DAoC if you're willing to drag a lowbie around in an RvR group.  I remember going from level 23 to level 25 in two oil pours at a siege while leveling my druid.  The XP gain tapers off around the mid to upper 30s, but from there it's not too bad to drag someone around any of the RvR dungeons to chain purple mobs.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on May 25, 2010, 11:31:05 AM
I leveled a vampire a couple of years ago doing nothing but instances.  I started with no money, no gear, and did it all by myself.  1-50 took 18h and would have been even faster if I hadn't bothered helping friends. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on May 25, 2010, 02:00:34 PM
even with travel?

I went back maybe 2 years ago and couldn't survive as an Alb Wiz against yellows in a dungeon.  Got fed and quit again, since they alternative was to hunt old school.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on May 25, 2010, 02:23:02 PM
even with travel?

I went back maybe 2 years ago and couldn't survive as an Alb Wiz against yellows in a dungeon.  Got fed and quit again, since they alternative was to hunt old school.

There is like zero travel.  Find the instance dungeon for your level range and do it for 10 levels.  Travel to the next and repeat.

Wizard would suck to solo level and would take a lot longer without being powerleveled.  Friar, Valkyrie, BD, Vamp, Animist, and a few other classes are much easier.  Anything that can self heal or LT goes fast as do pet/pet spam classes. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on May 25, 2010, 02:36:49 PM
Yeah, wizard was the wrong class to try to level first.  If you're wanting to go alb, I'd level a heretic, then use it to farm up the currency in the instances for gear to twink up a wizard.

Oh, and as was already mentioned, there's virtually no travel time.  It's not quite as ridiculous as WoW is currently, but you can get a horse at level 10, and the automated travel routes are decent enough.  Plus there are a couple of portals now that will kindly deposit you in the further away zones.  Travel is nothing like it used to be, where you would easily spend 45 minutes running from Camelot to the tree zone.  Lyonesse?  It's been too long...


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Typhon on May 25, 2010, 02:56:47 PM
Does the Thane still suck?

I'M NOT BITTER!!!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on May 25, 2010, 03:03:51 PM
I haven't played in years, but Thanes were still #1 at casting lag hammers of doom!   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on May 25, 2010, 03:16:47 PM
Wizard solo would suck. Wizard with a bot is amazing just bolt-pulling nonstop and chugging mana regen/int potions


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on May 25, 2010, 03:41:55 PM
It's comically fast to level in DAoC if you're willing to drag a lowbie around in an RvR group.  I remember going from level 23 to level 25 in two oil pours at a siege while leveling my druid.  The XP gain tapers off around the mid to upper 30s, but from there it's not too bad to drag someone around any of the RvR dungeons to chain purple mobs.


Only two levels, pfft! My record was like 20 or so  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on May 27, 2010, 07:40:19 AM
So what was the final word on the charge fiasco? I remember some higher up saying how sorry they all were and handing out free mounts but did they ever offer any assurance that it was well and truly fixed, never to happen again?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soukyan on May 28, 2010, 02:14:15 PM
So what was the final word on the charge fiasco? I remember some higher up saying how sorry they all were and handing out free mounts but did they ever offer any assurance that it was well and truly fixed, never to happen again?

I don't know if it will never happen again, but I was charged 10 times in the fiasco. During my wedding/honeymoon, no less.

In any case, the money was promptly refunded. As a compensation, every character on my account existing or new that I create, gets two golden writs. These can be used at an NPC for your choice of items ranging from endless bone white/chaos black dye pots, to griffon/wyvern mounts that move slightly faster than the top-end mounts you can buy, to free level scrolls. The three items I listed are really the best thing available to buy, but some people might like the helms that allow you to shapeshift into skeletons, bears, etc.

As the overcharging didn't really impact my money situation, I wasn't terribly put off by it, but I have heard that others had been charged upwards of 30 times and had encountered problems such as over-drafting and over-charging cards. That would definitely have sucked so I can sympathize.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soukyan on May 28, 2010, 02:22:10 PM
Perhaps on release, but I've been playing for a good 6 months now, and I disagree. I have never played an MMOG where characters level faster. 1-40 in 4 days played. Perhaps there are others that level that fast now, but I don't know. Now, mind you, that's 1-40 with renown at 34 in 4 days played.

DAoC is about 18-24 hours played to cap (longer depending on class).  GW you can have a cap level toon ready for pvp immediately, but will be less than optimal.  In a day you can get it modestly geared and skilled.  Both GW and DAoC were better PvP MMO's.  We can also add EvE to the list... don't want to omit that one.

I may have to revisit WAR.  I enjoyed my shaman and zealot enough that giving them a second look may be worth $15.  Sadly, without a regular group to play with I fear the PUGs would be frightening.

Yes, PUGs can be an iffy proposition. As far as leveling times, WAR seriously is still not bad. You could probably level faster than I did, but that was a majority of solo leveling with a lot of stopping to do RvR. My Chosen might have leveled a bit faster, but when I hit 40 with him, he was still only at 14 renown since I didn't RvR much on the way to the cap.

However, I've got lots of other alts ranging from levels 9 - 32 that I enjoy playing because the RvR is just plain fun at any level in that game.

I did not know DAoC was such fast leveling these days, but as you stated, sounds a bit boring and instance grinds are no fun. Not that any other MMOG has managed to nail the PvE leveling thing yet (for me). I forgot that with Eve you can jump right in pretty quickly, but I wouldn't compare that as skill levels are constrained by real time, and it does take longer than 4 days played to get your skills to a good level there. But I was never able to really play it much and get too involved in any major PvP because it required a lot of reliance on others who had lots of skill and money, and it always seemed to require a block of several hours to get involved in a big PvP battle.

But I digress, the Eve stuff is right for it. I shouldn't really compare it to WAR. They're both MMOGs, but they're designed to play different as games.

I suppose my point is that WAR is still a lot of fun, and if you're looking for some good RvR, you can jump right in from level 1. There's really no race to get to max level. At least not for me when I play. Hell, with the unlimited trial, you can play any class in the game to level 11 and never have to pay.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ezrast on June 05, 2010, 08:37:36 PM
I did a very bad thing.

Who wants a healer on their server?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Azazel on June 06, 2010, 02:54:59 AM
I don't know if it will never happen again, but I was charged 10 times in the fiasco. During my wedding/honeymoon, no less.

This is why, despite having the boxed game here (unopened - I decided to wait 6 months for them to fix up the game from the inevitable release-bugs.  :ye_gods:) I won't ever give these clowns my CC information. That goes for DAOC, WAR, Mythic, Bioware, right up to any MMO EA decides to shit out.

WAR can wake me when it goes F2P.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on June 06, 2010, 08:57:33 PM
WAR can wake me when it goes F2P.

I don't think you'll be waiting long, what with LOTRO going that way.  The first tier is pretty busy on all the servers and then it's pretty much dead.  F2P seems like the logical next step.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on June 06, 2010, 09:14:08 PM
I have to think that EA would sell or pull the plug first. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ollie on June 07, 2010, 03:01:53 AM
It's hard to say. A lot depends on the licensing deal they have with Games Workshop. Who knows what kind of convoluted stipulations they have in there.

If WAR was to go free-to-play, at least the transition would be relatively simple to pull off from a world design perspective. The game is already divided into various chunks with tiers, so there's no open world problem to deal with. Many of the content gates are already in place and just waiting to be monetized.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on June 07, 2010, 07:18:01 AM
WAR doesn't have the structure to be profitable (or even sustainable) as a free-to-play model.  What do you charge for?  The pve sucks.  The itemization sucks. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: eldaec on June 07, 2010, 08:46:54 AM
That's not a structure/design issue. It's just a 'this game is not good' issue.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Draegan on June 07, 2010, 09:18:30 AM
WAR doesn't have the structure to be profitable (or even sustainable) as a free-to-play model.  What do you charge for?  The pve sucks.  The itemization sucks. 

PVE is free, Scenarios are 10 cents an hour.  XP pots are a nickel.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 07, 2010, 12:57:15 PM
They should been FTP at release, would have made a fortune just by charging people 5$ per server transfer  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on June 07, 2010, 01:19:14 PM
I have to think that EA would sell or pull the plug first. 

With as many F2P browser-portal MMO's as EA has in development or live right now, I don't think that's the case. Tiger Woods Online, FIFA Online, Battlefield Heroes, Need for Speed World are all going to be F2P with lots of microtransactions. If EA/Mythic can figure out what to charge people for, they will make it F2P in an instant. I can easily seem them offering reduced levelling speed/first 10-20 levels for free, with only 1 or 2 scenarios available for free. Extra scenarios, cosmetic items, increased leveling rates, etc. could all be items for sale in a WAR store.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on June 09, 2010, 09:55:16 AM
The F2P model for this game may not be too bad of an idea.  As it is now, I don't have terribly much time for any serious MMO play or even gaming at all.  Warhammer could have a niche for more casual gaming if they would let themselves go more that direction instead of insisting on the "end game" concept.

As it is, they've made a lot of good changes to the game.  They've funneled everything down into one grouping, so there is no more "dodging" the fight.  The perpetual trialers up to level 11 have made it super active in the evenings in T1.  I'm just not sure how well it will do if they stretch the population over the 6-8 (or whatever number there are) tiers to get up to max level and the city sieges if they make the whole thing F2P.  It might be a better idea to just cut it off at T3, or maybe LOTD.  I've never done a city siege though, and I'm not sure what sort of future changes they are planning to actually make to that part of the game.


I'm having a lot of fun right now running through New Emskrank though.  I'll probably be dinking around with this for a while since I no longer get any enjoyment out of any of the quest based MMOs.  Thirty minutes of delivering pies in LOTRO just doesn't cut it when you don't have a lot of time to play.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soukyan on June 13, 2010, 09:37:54 PM
WAR can wake me when it goes F2P.

I don't think you'll be waiting long, what with LOTRO going that way.  The first tier is pretty busy on all the servers and then it's pretty much dead.  F2P seems like the logical next step.

Not dead at all post-T1. But then again, they may be converting free accounts now. I rolled up a new mage a couple weeks ago, and a large group of folks who I was playing with at the time are now still playing in T3 with me. And we've been fielding 1.5 to 2 warbands (so 36-48 people) per night in open RvR. It's been a real blast.

On Saturday, there was a wonderfully fun (shades of DAoC) keep battle at Thick Muck keep. Order had it claimed and it was at level 5. Destruction brought between 1 and 2 warbands and Order was fielding 1 of defenders. The battle started and I played for about an hour, back-and-forth, just trying to get this keep.

I logged and went to do some lawn work and house cleaning. I came back 2-3 hours later and the battle was still raging. I jumped into the overflow warband and played for another couple hours. Destruction finally took Thick Muck at ~9 AM today.

I don't know about you, but the fact that both sides were fielding people to fight for that keep over so a long period of time is awesome. Add to that the sheer fun of the battle and the determination to win. I'm sure there are elements of that in other games, and every keep battle certainly is not like that, but this game has moments that are out and out PvP excitement, which I really enjoy.

As for the F2P model, I'm sure they could manage to convert it. Simply make emblems and such purchasable as well as winnable in scenarios/RvR/etc. Lower the drop rate a bit and those who want to buy them will, those who don't, won't. In a similar model to the one proposed by LotRO, make people who subscribe VIPs and give them all the perks and expansions, extra classes, etc. as part of their subscription fee. Those who do not want to pay a fee can purchase those add-ons a la carte.

It's a very compelling model. I think Turbine has a good plan laid out and other MMOGs might do well to copy it. We shall see. But I will continue to play WAR because I'm having a lot of fun.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 17, 2010, 01:51:11 PM
http://twitter.com/JoshDrescher

Quote from: about 3 hours ago via web
Anybody looking for a devastatingly handsome, well-seasoned producer/designer?

Quote from: about 3 hours ago via web
FYI: I can't get into details (and, in fact, don't HAVE many more details), but it was a layoff. I wasn't fired and I still love Mythic.

Quote from: about 3 hours ago via web
@70ms I honestly have no idea who else was let go. They marched me out first.

Good luck to everyone affected.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on June 17, 2010, 02:35:11 PM
And if a tree falls in the forest...


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on June 17, 2010, 02:44:08 PM
Quote from: about 3 hours ago via web
@70ms I honestly have no idea who else was let go. They marched me out first.
Gotta love layoffs where the layoffees are escorted out of the building.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on June 17, 2010, 02:46:50 PM
Gotta love layoffs where the layoffees are escorted out of the building.

They were probably concerned he would steal retail copies of WAR for all of his friends.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on June 17, 2010, 04:13:31 PM
Hopefully it wasn't at gunpoint.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: stu on June 18, 2010, 01:12:27 AM
So, I started going over this thread after patching and re-subbing. The over billing errors are startling. Just doesn't seem worth the risk. :/

Since they already had my info, I created a Chaos healer. The noob zone is well done although a lot of the animations seem stunted. I canceled but I'll leave the game installed for now. My play/patch ratio is kinda upside down.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ashamanchill on June 18, 2010, 10:11:20 AM
Gotta love layoffs where the layoffees are escorted out of the building.

They were probably concerned he would steal retail copies of WAR for all of his friends.   :why_so_serious:

Lol. I wish I had of been drinking something when I read that, because it would have been all over the screen.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 27, 2010, 07:17:47 AM
June 25, 2010 - Transition to Mythic Service (http://forums.war-europe.com/warhammeronline/board/message?board.id=websitenewsEN&thread.id=1243)

Quote
Today we announce that GOA will cease publishing, operating and subscription services for Warhammer® Online: Age of Reckoning® (WAR) in Europe and transition the operation of the game to Mythic Entertainment.

We have enjoyed a lot of great times with you. Over the past couple of years we have fostered a fantastically vibrant and active community; we saw the world’s first Tchar’Zanek and Karl Franz kills pre 1.3.5 and hosted undeniably some of the most professional guilds to ever play WAR.

Over the next few weeks we will be working very closely with the Mythic Team to ensure you all get settled as smoothly as possible. We wish to assure you that all characters, guilds and account information will be migrated to Mythic servers and will be available to present and past players.

We will share more information on next steps, together with a FAQ, in the coming days.

Can't remember if this was mentioned before.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on June 27, 2010, 09:47:08 AM
GOA is being wound down as a unit, the other games that they run (League of Legends and Pangya) have already been transitioned back to their owners. This is GOA closing down rather than EA taking their ball home. If there is a games unit at FT after this it will probably have the Orange brand and be run out of Paris rather than Dublin.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on June 30, 2010, 05:38:33 PM
Producer's Letter - June 2010 (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1152)

Quote
We hear that your requests in this regard and clearly it is our wish to you the summer to give a better impression of the end for what we intend to long term with WAR. Some critics do not hesitate to make fun of that "we were so incredibly excited" and "yes oh so in the fingers itch would very much us," some "really cool news to reveal" (yes, we read the comments pert) and this case, we would like it from the rooftops hinunterbrüllen love ... but still.

The new German version, translated back in English, of the “P-Letter” just seemed to read better to me.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on June 30, 2010, 05:43:09 PM
The most interesting part of the producer's letter was this part:

Quote
As you now know, we are working with GOA to transition the European community over to Bioware Mythic (Like the fancy new name? We’re still getting used to it ourselves)

Who wants to bet that in a year it will be Bioware East?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soulflame on July 01, 2010, 10:34:33 AM
It'll just be Bioware, and the Mythic offices will be closed.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tmon on July 01, 2010, 01:20:33 PM
The scaling bonus he talks about for outnumbered realms in an RVR lake sounds good, but I can only imagine the bitching when some poor sucker wanders in and tips the balance away from the max possible xp scale.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 07, 2010, 06:59:22 AM
Wacky, zero evidence, rumour time (http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3624810#3624810).

Quote
When the producer dujour Carrie G (who has zero clue about the industry despite her supossed ten years in it)  cut the throat of the PVE game  (which was already in shambles) and killed any hope of ressurecting the hopelessly broken crafting in lieu of "Killing People in the face" PVP she basically put a dying MMO out of it's misery.
EA is going to shut it down later this year I know that for a fact, the entire team is being retasked and the dead weight is being laid off,  GW is quietly taking the license to a new company I have i on good authority that THQ will get that as well as they are working on a yet unannounced WHF RTS similar to Dawn of War. But don't expect it till 2015 way after the fail of WAR has been forgotten
And no links no way to prove any of this I just know folks at GW who like to talk after a couple pints. :)

Just enough extra fluff to start a good rumour", "Killing People in the face" is the kind of annoying in-crowd fad that would secretly annoy people & a WHF RTS from THQ does makes sense.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 07:36:42 AM
There's no way they let this thing stumble into walls for another couple years. Any comeback they were going to get was going to be driven by people who know more about MMOs than the average casual WoW guy (ie the people who bought a million boxes at release) and that potential was squelched by the billing fiasco. I know at least ten people who were willing to give it a second look until that happened. Hell, despite my vow to never give them another dime while Barnett was there I was tempted just to see after decent feedback. It's dead as fuck. Just a matter of time before they off the patient.

It's a valuable IP. I wonder who GW's shopping the IP to. The conspiratorial side of me is suddenly wondering if the 40k MMO looks an awful lot like WAR specifically because they're in the know and want to do a WAR done right eventually with both IPs, thereby increasing potential overlap.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 07, 2010, 08:06:54 AM
want to do a WAR done right

So much of the design flows from the decision to have levels or not, they knew WAR PVP didn't work with levels, they even dropped levels in scenarios and yet they still based the whole game around levels.  From the Dark Millennium Online E3 video, it has levels too.  I'm convinced it's going to be crap too.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 08:12:49 AM
I am, too. Especially with the whole LOOK HOW CLOSE WE ARE TO WOW spiel they seem to be spouting constantly.

What I'm saying is that THQ would be the obvious landing spot, just as they were for the 40K MMO. And it follows thusly:

1) A million people, give or take, bought WAR.
2) Well into the four or five month post-release period WAR had 500k+ subscribers, meaning people found something they liked prior to the bulk reaching endgame.
3) The 40K MMO looks so much like WAR it's uncanny. This can't be an accident. I refuse to believe that THQ is so clueless about the MMO made with the 40K sister IP that they don't know.

This is all a tenuous thread of logic here. I'm just saying that there's a proven customer base for WAR done wrong. You can bank on WAR done right, appeal to the WoW players and get a million plus subs out of the gate. You can then angle for the Warhammer IP, take your 40K which is actually WAR and then do the whole thing over again.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on July 07, 2010, 08:13:12 AM
THQ have the exclusive rights to exploit the Warhammer and Warhammer 40k IP in computer gaming with the specific exception of WAR. As I understand it (and I'm pretty sure I'm right here), the Mythic deal was in early negotiation when THQ asked for exclusive rights. As THQ had no interest in a WFB MMO at that time they agreed to the Mythic exception and took everything else but the exception was for Mythic specifically not for MMO rights in general so if Mythic lose the licence then THQ will also inherit those rights.

At least that's how it was explained to me.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 08:23:06 AM
Makes perfect sense.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 07, 2010, 08:24:25 AM
2) Well into the four or five month post-release period WAR had 500k+ subscribers, meaning people found something they liked prior to the bulk reaching endgame.

Just to be pedantic, they had 800k accounts shortly after release, the maximum number of subscribers claimed by them was only ever 300k.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on July 07, 2010, 08:55:52 AM
I stand corrected, then. Still nothing to sneeze at but I did think they had about a million boxes sold and hovered around the 500k mark for a good while before everyone reached grind/endgame.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Setanta on July 07, 2010, 06:02:42 PM

2) Well into the four or five month post-release period WAR had 500k+ subscribers, meaning people found something they liked prior to the bulk reaching endgame.

I'd love to see the stats on how many actually made it to the endgame. I got to 32 on my Ironbreaker and gave up.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Hawkbit on July 07, 2010, 07:52:12 PM
Such a shame, such wasted potential.  I hope, at the very least, that some people learned valuable lessons. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on July 07, 2010, 08:40:44 PM
2) Well into the four or five month post-release period WAR had 500k+ subscribers, meaning people found something they liked prior to the bulk reaching endgame.

Just to be pedantic, they had 800k accounts shortly after release, the maximum number of subscribers claimed by them was only ever 300k.

Adding to say that the 500k figure was their break-even point and it is arguable that the 300k active sub number lasted as long as it did because WAR launched into multiple markets that would have hid its decline in NA and EU.

I'll be shocked if WAR makes it to Xmas. The only way it does is if EA doesn't want a MMO closing before SWOR launches or WAR goes F2P.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sheepherder on July 07, 2010, 09:35:58 PM
The only way it does is if EA doesn't want a MMO closing before SWOR launches or WAR goes F2P.

They also might decide to off WAR right before launch to see if SWTOR will cannibalize WAR's remains.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Jherad on July 08, 2010, 03:57:54 PM
Quote
From:         donotreply@mythic.ea.com
Sent:    Thu 7/08/10 2:38 AM
To:    xxx
Mythic Entertainment
Password Change Notification

Your password for Mythic Entertainment Master Account for Warhammer Online and Username xxx has been updated via the Account Management site.

If you did not authorize this, please contact support at (650) 628-1001. Phone support hours are 10:00 am - 10:00 pm eastern time, Monday through Friday. You can find further information on account security at http://help.warhammeronline.com.

Thank you!

Same thing happened in May, after which I changed the passwords to a longer alphanumeric. My PC is clean, and although I have password change notification emails, I don't have 'click here to reset your password' ones. I am (very) confident my email account hasn't been compromised.

It is possible I guess that the account password was bruteforced, though my passwords are usually a bit too strong for that to be practical. I haven't subscribed to WAR since January '09, and a bit of googling suggests a lot of old accounts have been hacked and reactivated with free trials. Each time, the passwords were changed, but no personal information was modified. I haven't logged in (no sub, heh), but the character copy page suggests my old characters are still there.

Anyone else had similar emails?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on July 08, 2010, 03:59:23 PM
What's the header of that email look like?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Jherad on July 09, 2010, 09:17:51 AM
Header:


Looks legit to me, and the password /was/ changed. I changed it again myself using the 'lost your password?' type thingy, as the associated email address hadn't been changed.

No biggy - I don't use the account, and there is no attached credit card. Just found it curious, and I'd rather not have some gold farmer running around with an old account of mine.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on July 23, 2010, 07:34:40 PM
Quote from: http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1196
As we continue to integrate with the BioWare family we are pleased to announce our plans to bring two great communities together. Next week the Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning forums will join the BioWare Social Network where you will have the benefits of being a part of a larger community, one with a passion for gaming as big as our own.

And now the offical forums die, folded into BioWare's gaming graveyard.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Jherad on July 24, 2010, 02:44:08 AM
(http://indidenim.pmhclients.com/images/uploads/OFFICE_SPACE_IMAGE.jpg)

... We're gonna need to go ahead and move you downstairs into storage B.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tarami on July 26, 2010, 06:16:37 PM
Just putting it here because starting a new thread seems pointless... I got this mail today and I haven't had an active WAR account since it released. The mail seems legit and I didn't notice anything suspicious on my bank account, but I figured you might want to check if you still got a valid credit card entered.

Quote
Mythic Entertainment
End of Subscription Notification

Your subscription for Mythic Entertainment Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning for Game Account xxxx_EUR has ended for the following reason:
    * Subscription is not set to renew

If you did not authorize this, please contact support at (650) 628-1001. Phone support hours are 10:00 am - 10:00 pm eastern time, Monday through Friday. You can find further information on account security at http://help.warhammeronline.com.

Thank you!

This is an automated email from the Account Management site for Mythic Entertainment.
It's not that hard not to fuck up in everything you do, Mythic.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tannhauser on July 26, 2010, 06:31:15 PM
I got the same thing.  I honestly thought about re-subbing for the lulz, but I don't want them to charge me $800.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on July 26, 2010, 08:11:05 PM
It's because you once had a Euro subscription. When the service transitioned back to Mythic from GOA, all Euro accounts were reopened free for a few weeks to try the new service. That mail is just your notification that this free subscription period has expired. I got one too and I've never subscribed (my account was an internal one).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tarami on July 26, 2010, 08:17:26 PM
I haven't received any e-mails telling me about free time, but ok. Makes sense. I think.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Threash on July 26, 2010, 09:39:13 PM
Yeah kinda backasswards to send emails notifying when the free time ends but not when it started.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on July 26, 2010, 09:57:55 PM
They are devious that way.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on July 27, 2010, 05:04:30 AM
I got the same email but I had at least one notifying me about free time, though you had to read it carefully to spot it.

Quote
8 July 2010

Greetings!

Bioware Mythic is pleased to be assuming all publishing and operational responsibilities for Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning in Europe, effective 7 July 2010. We would like to take this opportunity to thank GOA for their commitment and service to the WAR community and to invite you to join us in welcoming the European community to Bioware Mythic by extending 2 free weeks of playtime to all Current and Former GOA WAR players starting 7 July 2010.

We understand that you may have questions regarding this transition. To help, we've assembled a list of Frequently Asked Questions which can be found in the following languages:

English - http://www.warhammeronline.com/international/goa/faq_en.php
French - http://www.warhammeronline.com/international/goa/faq_fr.php
German - http://www.warhammeronline.com/international/goa/faq_de.php
Once the transition has completed, existing and returning players can access the Mythic Account center (https://accounts.eamythic.com/) using their same Master Account name with the _EUR suffix added on; For Example ACCOUNT NAME_EUR. PLEASE NOTE: In some rare cases of Master Account names exceeding 19 characters, players will only use an underscore suffix; For example ACCOUNT NAME_. In most cases players will use the _EUR suffix. The above information applies to your WAR game account as well.

Also, we've been able to transfer all previously stored items in player Mailboxes, on the Auction House and in Guild Banks at the time we received the data stamp from GOA (29 June 2010), so these items will be waiting for you when you normal play resumes on the Bioware Mythic European WAR servers in the coming days.

Returning players can download the client here: http://www.warhammeronline.com/download/index.php

Welcome to our European community and we'll see you on the Battlefield!

WAAAGH!

Really, horribly badly worded they should have started with "TWO WEEKS FREE PLAY to celebrate Bioware Mythic  assuming all publishing and operational responsibilities for Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning in Europe, effective 7 July 2010 etc etc".


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on July 27, 2010, 07:39:14 AM
This is just about the hardest thing I can think of to fuck up and they found a way.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on July 27, 2010, 07:46:11 AM
I have friends that are playing atm that want me to come back.  So far they have not succeeded and its getting easier to say no...


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Typhon on July 27, 2010, 09:08:23 AM
I got bored of everything else, re-upped and I have to say that I'm enjoying the scenario PvP.  All the maps that I hated are not in the rotation, all the maps that I liked are in the rotation, the map that pops isn't always Nordenwatch (although that pops a fair amount).  I have crap gear compared to everyone else, and I still feel like I contribute to the matches (yes, I'm looking at you WoW).

PvE is still ass, the engine hasn't been improved.

I guess I'm actually sadder that they came as close as they did, and haven't figured out how to close the gap.  This could be a good game if someone with a clue made the right changes.  Sad.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on July 27, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Well, yeah, that was always the story. So close. I mean really, really close. It just shows how horribly inept they are.

I think the billing error was the nail in the coffin. You weren't going to get new people anyway but you could rely on people checking it back out until that. I'm sorely tempted to go PvP but there's no way I could chance the billing problems.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Triforcer on August 07, 2010, 05:00:37 PM
I'm bored now and would resub if there weren't a change of a $500 charge. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on August 07, 2010, 07:57:13 PM
I have to admit to playing again for a few months now.  The game isn't amazing, but it is much, much better.  You can level at a decent pace, and when you find PvP it can be a lot of fun.  Crowd control is at a reasonable level.

I don't do much with scenarios, mostly RvR.  Depending on time that might be hoping from BO to BO, or it may be an actual fight.  Tier 2 and 3 are the best for RvR.  Tier 4 can have some amazing fights, but a lot of the time it's just a Zerg, and the city sieges seem to be better if you're 40+.

If anyone is really curious though, I'll be happy to throw you a refer-a-friend invite for a 10 day trial.  Just PM me your e-mail if so.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on August 09, 2010, 07:40:03 AM
The game is better now then launch, Ill give em that. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Triforcer on August 10, 2010, 08:15:10 PM
I'm actually enjoying this (after 3 days of endless trial) about 10x more than at launch.  Of course, T1 was always fun, even then.  I'm still unsure if I should pull the trigger on this, but I think I might.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Cadaverine on August 11, 2010, 12:50:21 AM
So, is there any sort of noticeable population, outside of the T1 Empire/Chaos area?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on August 11, 2010, 06:45:23 AM
I hear tell it's actually reasonably active on the remaining servers. I would pull the trigger but not after the billing fiasco. I can't. I want to but I can't justify the risk.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on August 11, 2010, 07:15:24 AM
Some servers are better than others, but you can transfer freely as long as you don't have characters of the opposing faction on the server.  I've never had much problems finding action though.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brennik on August 13, 2010, 02:40:28 AM
You can buy gametime cards from the EA Strore, if you trust them.

I got sucked back in too during the Euro server transfer and leveled a new witch elf up. Leveling was fun but I'm not too sure how long I can take all the bombing and premades in scenarios :-P


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brogarn on August 17, 2010, 10:21:54 AM
Patch 1.3.6 apparently going up today. If anyone over the next couple of days has comments, I'd love to hear them.

Canceled AoC. Playing Mass Effect 2 (awesomesauce with a side of kick ass and oh hell ya for dessert). Looking around for another MMO to play once I'm done. Nowhere to go but backwards at the moment.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Furiously on August 18, 2010, 12:48:54 AM
Some servers are better than others, but you can transfer freely as long as you don't have characters of the opposing faction on the server.  I've never had much problems finding action though.

What servers are active people here playing on?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Shatter on August 18, 2010, 07:37:38 AM
Some servers are better than others, but you can transfer freely as long as you don't have characters of the opposing faction on the server.  I've never had much problems finding action though.

What servers are active people here playing on?

Gorfang was ok


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on August 18, 2010, 10:36:03 AM
Some servers are better than others, but you can transfer freely as long as you don't have characters of the opposing faction on the server.  I've never had much problems finding action though.

What servers are active people here playing on?
My Order characters are on Badlands.  Destro characters on Volkmar and Iron Rock, though they're pretty neglected at the moment.

Badlands people seem to think it's the most balanced of the servers.  It does go back and forth a lot, though lower tiers are more fluid on all servers.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ezrast on August 18, 2010, 01:48:09 PM
I was playing destro on Gorfang - my impression was that order outnumbers us there but only slightly, which is ideal. Not sure about overall population though. My sub is currently lapsed but I'll be back as soon as the new shiny on City of Villains wears off.

Full patch notes for 1.3.6 are here (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/patchnotes/index.php?id=2010_1-3-6). They finally added sticky targeting.  :heart:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on August 18, 2010, 02:28:24 PM
Also an appearance tab! ;D


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on August 18, 2010, 02:35:49 PM
They finally added sticky targeting.  :heart:

Am I the only one that thinks this is a terrible idea?  I don't want to make it easier to have an assist train.  It should take at least some minimum amount of skill.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ezrast on August 18, 2010, 02:55:03 PM
Sticky targeting just means that if you click on open ground it won't deselect your current targets. Nothing to do with assisting.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Segoris on August 18, 2010, 02:56:10 PM
 edit: ez beat me.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on August 18, 2010, 02:56:35 PM
Sticky targeting just means that if you click on open ground it won't deselect your current targets. Nothing to do with assisting.

Good.  Thanks for the clarification.  I hated /assist and /stick in DAoC.  I thought they watered down the gameplay too much.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 19, 2010, 05:23:40 AM
If you don't mind me asking, how's the free trial on this? They don't nickel and dime you to death do they? Like public quests only for subscribers or some such. A few friends and I have considered going and trying out the destro side when I get sick of wow.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on August 19, 2010, 07:11:48 AM
Unlimited free trial, everything level 1-10. Or maybe it's 1-11. Just lots of annoying reminders to SUB SUB SUB!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: rk47 on August 19, 2010, 07:54:12 AM
I've been doing the two weeks free trial from friends who are still subbed, for a month after I quit. But really, how much can you PvP in tier 1 skills before you get bored. And no, I'm not spending a single dime on this life-support game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Pagz on August 19, 2010, 08:38:18 AM
Looks like they'll be announcing some sort of rvr pack on the weekend:


http://www.onrpg.com/MMO/Warhammer-Online/news/Warhammer-Online-Announces-the-RvR-Pack



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Jherad on August 19, 2010, 09:29:14 AM
"... while Skaven are involved they will not be implemented as a standard race that players can play from level one. "We want to do something... different with Skaven"

Hmm. Monster play?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on August 19, 2010, 09:39:17 AM
Monster play would be my guess.

With the RvR pack Bioware Mythic wants to move away from the standard "Release a huge expansion every 2 years." system and wants to adopt a system that allows players to "customize their game experience".

Translation, we don't want to fund a proper expansion, this game is just going to hang around to give Mythic Bioware staff some experience with tinkering in a mmo until it's politically acceptable to kill it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on August 19, 2010, 12:07:24 PM
Monster play would be my guess.

With the RvR pack Bioware Mythic wants to move away from the standard "Release a huge expansion every 2 years." system and wants to adopt a system that allows players to "customize their game experience".

Translation, we don't want to fund a proper expansion, this game is just going to hang around to give Mythic Bioware staff some experience with tinkering in a mmo until it's politically acceptable to kill it.

Yeah, that. Considering Skaven would problably be one of the top races people would request as a playable race, doing something... different seems retarded unless you can't afford to put development resources into it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ezrast on August 19, 2010, 01:55:33 PM
Players may want skaven, but it's not a good design decision. To make it really feel like a full race, they would have to add four new classes, and then four more classes to the opposing realm. I love lots and lots of class options, but the races they currently have pretty much fill all the standard niches (and quite a few non-standard ones) and last I heard they still needed some balance work. Throwing eight new classes into the mix now would solve no problems with the game and wouldn't bring anything new without a ton of design work. If they screwed up the balance on just one of those classes to the degree that Blizzard screwed up paladins and death knights in 3.0, they would lose way, way more goodwill with the player base than some furry textures would ever hope to gain.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rendakor on August 19, 2010, 08:53:01 PM
I agree with ezrast; they backed themselves into the same corner EQ2 did with classes; by making it specifically 4 classes per race, one of each role, they leave themselves very little room to expand without doing it in a big way.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brogarn on August 23, 2010, 11:38:45 AM
Resubbed Friday to get the 10 free days and the double xp and renown this weekend. All three lower tiers were busy and I had a lot of fun. Well, minus the bout of RvE (Realm vs Environment... Realm vs Door... however you want to put it) that happened on Sunday morning. Other than that, lots of PvP action going on. Good stuff. I like leveling via RvR. I also like that the new producer is focused on that aspect of the game. Hope it goes good places. If not, oh well. Lots of other games coming out and still others that I haven't played in a while.

I'll probably give this the 30 days I subbed for.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on August 23, 2010, 12:42:05 PM
I hope you did refer a friend.  (Though it wasn't me.  :cry2:)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brogarn on August 23, 2010, 12:59:17 PM
I hope you did refer a friend.  (Though it wasn't me.  :cry2:)

The answer is no, but I should have and for some reason didn't think of it. Fuck.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on August 25, 2010, 07:09:38 AM
Mark Jacobs - It’s been a very long, boring, sad, happy, enlightening, interesting and deeply ironic year (http://onlinegamesareanichemarket.wordpress.com/2010/08/17/its-been-a-very-long-boring-sad-happy-enlightening-interesting-and-deeply-ironic-year/)

Quote
Folks,

Well, the title pretty much says it all. Since EA and I parted ways last summer I have been on an enforced vacation (contracts are a b**** aren’t they?) and as always, I honored mine to both the letter and spirit of the law. Well, they have now expired, been made extinct, gone buh-bye and I’m free to do and say whatever I feel like. However, as has been made clear by some of our political leaders, there is a wide gap between having the freedom to do something and actually doing it. So, for now I’ll do as I have done in the past and take the high road whenever possible.

So, what does this mean? Well, I don’t know actually. I think it’s time to get back to work and maybe do a little writing here. I still have some thank yous to get to (I’ll sort of explain the delay in an upcoming post) and try to find the time to comment on a few things that have been going on in our world.

For those that have wondered where I’ve been, who have wished me well, who have sent me their thanks and yes, even those that have thrown some rotten fruit my way, you all have my thanks.

Mark

Regarding Electronic Arts (http://onlinegamesareanichemarket.wordpress.com/2010/08/18/regarding-electronic-arts/)

Quote
In terms of WAR, well, given the historical failure rate of MMORPGs (more on this another day), the fact that WAR was developed in only 3 years (compare and contrast to other already launched titles), is still operating, had to launch directly against a WoW expansion, sold a hefty amount of copies, was one of the highest rated MMOs to date, etc. is something to be proud of regardless.  I am also proud that during my time at EA I never once sought promotion, raises, super-special perks, more power, etc. all I cared about was trying to deliver a top title for EA.  I felt that doing anything else would be a disservice to the company and to the team that bought Mythic in 2006.  My mission was to help get WAR out the door and anything that could distract me from that I wanted no part of.

Nice to see Mark back online, there's not much detail on what went wrong with WAR.  There's an interview with massively (http://www.massively.com/2010/08/24/the-game-archaeologist-and-the-quest-for-camelot-a-talk-with-ma) in addition to the recent flurry of blog postings thanking people Mythic used to do business with (read into that what you will).

From the interview, I liked this whole paragraph (hindsight and all that, but two realms was highlighted as an issue here, right from the start in 2005).  I should repost this quote in the Dark Millennium Online thread, I wonder if part of the reason DAoC worked better for RVR was that they put more thought in RVR just because it's obvious that three requires a lot more effort than two.

Quote
Jacobs: I love PvE games but I knew that going against the PvE champ EQ was a losing proposition. We didn't have the time and money to try to beat EQ so, borrowing an old baseball axiom, I wanted us to "hit it where it ain't" and we did. As to the RvR format, credit for that idea goes, as it always has, to the guys at Kesmai who created Air Warrior. As a long time player and fan of that game, I saw the advantages of having three realms that fight against each other. So, once I knew that I wanted an RvR game, I knew I needed the IP to go with it and well, as above, the shower led the way.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on August 25, 2010, 07:51:55 AM
He knew that back with EQ and DAoC, but decided taking on WoW was okay with WAR?  And then...

:facepalm:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on August 25, 2010, 07:59:43 AM
I personally hope that Mark is allowed to make a 3 realm pvp game.  Sure, it may have its problems... but it would likely be better than any other pvp title available. 

I want DAoC 2 damnit.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brogarn on August 25, 2010, 08:26:56 AM
I want DAoC 2 damnit.

Yes, please.


I'm still playing a bit, but really, that key lack of a third realm really makes this game less than what it could be and I'm already getting bored. It's definitely gotten better as far as stability goes. I also like that they're pushing RvR as their focus. But I don't think it'll ever be what it could be without a third realm. Occasionally it gets really good when both sides are fighting over a spot in the sand. But mostly, it's back and forth keep takes without much in the way of fighting. A third realm would go a long way to solving that issue.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 25, 2010, 04:22:10 PM
He knew that back with EQ and DAoC, but decided taking on WoW was okay with WAR?  And then...

:facepalm:

Never has a facepalm been more apt.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on August 26, 2010, 03:29:34 AM
Interview Gamescon with Carrie Couskos and Andy Belford (http://wamboland.de/war/videos/warwelten_gc2010_interview.wmv)

RVR Pack (maybe this year, not an expansion), new high level armour in higher RVR ranks, a lot to help players get through lower levels RVR more easily.

New zone, RVR only, part of campaign.  Skaven not playable as a race from 1-40, no Skaven careers, Skaven are focused on RVR, going to be unique.  People can pay for what they want.  MMO Industry is shifting, 3 pieces of first pack, power, progression and personality.  After Carrie saying no more normal patches, we are concentrating purely on RVR pack, a few minutes later is asked if this is the end of free content and says no  :hello_thar:  New paid for services, server merges mentioned as part of that?  :dead_horse:

Russia servers merging from two to one, this is apparently because Russia is huge and has lots of time zones. :facepalm:

I only made it halfway though the interview, it's not that what they are doing with the game is all wrong it's just you sorta feel sorry for them.  The big thing recently was that WAR is profitable (presumably excluding the costs for over 3 years of development), now they intend to charge for downloadable content that inproves RVR.  So it's like a paid expansion without a box on the shelves and I guess without the amount of content you would see in a normal expansion, but you can pick the bits you like.

Edit to add.
GRTV chats with Carrie Goukos (http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/4701/Warhammer+Online+interview/)

Ok now I don't feel that sorry for Carrie, boy is she touchy.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soln on August 26, 2010, 02:26:31 PM
people are still mad at PB and MJ.  That's how a lot of people remember WAR -- being pissed with MJ and disgusted by PB.  But add the credit card billing fiasco that happened on her watch and yeah -- she should be punchy and on her toes. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on August 26, 2010, 06:56:23 PM
Quote
From your perspective, what feature in DAoC worked far better than anticipated?

Jacobs: RvR. It was the best RvR-centric game ever made in 2001 and, excluding WAR (for obvious reasons), the best RvR-game to date.

I lol'd hard.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on August 26, 2010, 07:41:53 PM
Quote
From your perspective, what feature in DAoC worked far better than anticipated?

Jacobs: RvR. It was the best RvR-centric game ever made in 2001 and, excluding WAR (for obvious reasons), the best RvR-game to date.

I lol'd hard.

Why?  I agree with him.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: KallDrexx on August 27, 2010, 07:44:25 AM
I think he's laughing because it's implying that Jacobs said WAR is now the best RvR game to date, which it also seems to insinuate that he's saying that out of obligation rather than he believes it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: March on September 02, 2010, 05:22:28 PM
Quote
Skaven are coming: The RvR Pack will be introducing Skaven to the WAR. True to their chaotic nature, the Skaven will influence the battlefield in significant ways, skittering about, doing what Skaven do. Skaven will be playable by both Realms and are not an NPC “third realm”.

To add to Arthur's above post... from the August Producer's letter.

Seems pretty clear: How to add the missing third realm we stupidly left out without all the hassle of making them a "third realm"

Wonder what the implementation will look like... sort of WaR monster-play it would seem.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on September 02, 2010, 05:38:21 PM
In one of the interviews linked up thread, Carrie Gouskos was saying that there would be no 1-40 progression for Skaven so they look like a pick-up-and-play deal rather than anything else.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on September 03, 2010, 04:57:20 PM
Quote
From your perspective, what feature in DAoC worked far better than anticipated?

Jacobs: RvR. It was the best RvR-centric game ever made in 2001 and, excluding WAR (for obvious reasons), the best RvR-game to date.

I lol'd hard.

Jacobs: RvR. It was the best RvR-centric game ever made in 2001 and, exincluding WAR (for obvious reasons), the best RvR-game to date.

There, now it reads right.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on September 03, 2010, 04:59:42 PM
I want DAoC 2 damnit.

That is precisely what I and every one I game with was hoping WAR was. Which it wasn't. Which is why we were pissed.

Yes, I do hope someone (Mark or anyone with a clue) eventualy makes a worthy DAoC successor.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on September 03, 2010, 06:06:38 PM
Funny, AC2 failed because it wasn't AC2 as well.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on September 03, 2010, 08:40:30 PM
I bit the bullet and did a time card sub because my curiosity and pre-Civ V lull couldn't take it anymore. Paul Barnett's absence let's me fool myself into thinking not a sliver of my money goes into his pocket and I won't hear otherwise.

It's not in bad shape anymore. Certainly the technical issues have mostly cleared up, though server stuff is a different issue. The grind is WAY lessened, in RvR, Scenarios and even PQs. The big problem is that most servers are absolutely deserted. Unless you're on Iron Rock or Badlands fuck right off and do something else because nobody's home; Badlands is by far the most populated but it's SO populated it crashes with alarming regularity.

Playing Order on Iron Rock and, dear god help me, I'm having fun. Made it through t1 pretty much only through ORvR. I'd like to see scenarios pop a little faster and more activity in tiers 2 and 3 when it comes to the RvR lakes but, given the game's reputation, we're not going back to the awesome days of yore when shit was happening constantly.

Lastly, I feel that twinge of sadness I get when I played it last. It really was close. Very close. If they'd not done the grind adding and had more robust code to handle lots of people in one place everything MMO related would be an entirely different conversation.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on September 11, 2010, 05:10:26 PM
Warhammer Online to Stop Operation (http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-09-10/nhn_s_games_trapped_in_trouble,1.shtml) - (Korea)

Quote
According to Korea-based NHN, it will stop the operation of Warhammer Online on September 30. Warhammer Online and TERA are crowned as NHN's two most anticipated online games. As someone from NHN expressed, at the beginning of August, NHN and EA stopped related game localization work, and decided to terminate the game's operational agreement in South Korea.
...
The game content, which's equal to fifty-three 200-page novels, was translated, and the in-game characters' appearance and art style were also adjusted according to the local culture.

That's fifty three novels, of kill this, fetch that, go somewhere else that I wouldn't want to read.

Quote
However, after two years' re-development, Warhammer Online was still unsatisfactory. On the other hand, Mythic's reorganization had much to do with Korean Warhammer Online's stoppage of operation. Since 2006 when Mythic was merged into EA, Mythic has been renamed three times and restructured greatly, and most developers of Warhammer Online have left too. According to NHN, EA itself has lost interest in developing Warhammer Online, and has suggested stopping the development work initiatively. Meanwhile, the game's brand-new content was updated earlier in North America than in South Korea, but gamers there seem not very interested and few new gamers are attracted, which makes Warhammer Online really hard to enjoy a bright future.

Ouch, if I'm reading that right (I can't be arsed to double check), that's not the author saying that, that's NHN themselves.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kail on September 11, 2010, 05:42:48 PM
That's fifty three novels, of kill this, fetch that, go somewhere else that I wouldn't want to read.

That seems a bit unfair.  Everywhere someone pitched two tents together had a two page entry in the Tome, every town had a few "noteable persons", every enemy had some page long blurb, every PQ and every RVR area had short stories associated with them.  There was a LOT of text in this game.  Nobody read it anyways, of course.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on September 11, 2010, 06:45:16 PM
The tome had a lot of text no one ever saw unless they did a massive number of unlocks.

Edit: Dumb spelling error.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Typhon on September 11, 2010, 10:54:36 PM
I un-subbed, but I enjoyed my time in the game.  What killed it for me was that there were still engine irregularities (read: positional abilities in a PvE game where the mobs move in time to your moving so it's impossible to line up mobs + my toon just not having the level of control that I like) that turned me off - mostly it turned me off because I know it's never going to be fixed, which I found depressing.

In general I liked the quest dialog more than WoWs, and I can't put my finger on exactly why.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on September 12, 2010, 04:26:16 AM
The Tome of Knowledge is probably the one really awesome thing that WAR did.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on September 12, 2010, 04:47:43 AM
Warhammer Online to Stop Operation (http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-09-10/nhn_s_games_trapped_in_trouble,1.shtml) - (Korea)

Ouch. When EA itself suggests it isn't worth continuing operation of the game, that's a pretty clear sign.

Also, that article suggests issues with TERA and I was unaware that the Kingdom Under Fire 2's dev had quit en masse.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on September 12, 2010, 03:36:21 PM
That's fifty three novels, of kill this, fetch that, go somewhere else that I wouldn't want to read.

That seems a bit unfair.  Everywhere someone pitched two tents together had a two page entry in the Tome, every town had a few "noteable persons", every enemy had some page long blurb, every PQ and every RVR area had short stories associated with them.  There was a LOT of text in this game.  Nobody read it anyways, of course.

It's not unfair, the Tome of Knowledge seems like a great idea, but I only spent about 10 minutes reading it while subscribed and then promptly forgot about it.  How long did you spend reading it?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Cadaverine on September 12, 2010, 11:33:47 PM
I read it, but I'm a sucker for that sort of thing.  Badges, tomes, achievements, whatever.    I probably stuck with WoW a good 2 or 3 months longer this last time, just doing achievements.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rendakor on September 13, 2010, 12:45:42 PM
I like badges and achievements too, but still never read more than a page or two out of the Tome.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Morfiend on September 13, 2010, 04:29:36 PM
I like badges and achievements too, but still never read more than a page or two out of the Tome.

Same. I think the Tome was just to massive with to much info and text. Also, I seem to recall is wasnt the easiest thing to find the exact info you where looking for.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on September 21, 2010, 12:57:14 PM
The tome had a lot of text no one ever saw unless they did a massive number of unlocks.

Edit: Dumb spelling error.

Would have been cheaper and just as timely to have the game JIT the text through Babelfish for 90% of the text that almost no one every sees or reads.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on September 21, 2010, 04:30:59 PM
Everywhere someone pitched two tents together
:grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on September 29, 2010, 04:55:44 PM
I watched this Mythic promo video yesterday.

The Reenlisters! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBsFuptcNnc)

Caught this Turbine promo for LOTRO by accident today via an add on a WAR forum.

Lord of the Rings Online Free to Play Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnKoaeOJYKs)

Maybe it's just me but I dunno, no matter how cheesy one of them is, it seems like the other is just embarrassing to watch.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on September 29, 2010, 05:07:40 PM
That Warhammer one literally hurt to watch. I couldn't finish it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Segoris on September 29, 2010, 06:10:06 PM
I watched this Mythic promo video yesterday.

The Reenlisters! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBsFuptcNnc)

That must have set them back a couple hundred bucks about 15 minutes. Which to be fair, is more time then allow for planning on how to fix/improve the games themselves :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on September 29, 2010, 06:58:21 PM
The LotRO one made me laugh. Just seeing the Bioware logo attached to the other piece of crap made me cry. (On the inside.)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on September 29, 2010, 09:59:06 PM
It was cheesy but cute and clever.  The other one seemed like it was written by the same guy that did Barnett's video diaries...


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on September 30, 2010, 07:05:09 AM
Was it me or did that Hobbit receptionist shave her feet?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on September 30, 2010, 09:53:34 AM
It would be unseemly in the modern workplace to have unshaven feet.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on September 30, 2010, 10:01:28 AM
It's a brandywine-brazillian.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on September 30, 2010, 11:50:36 AM
Oh god


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on September 30, 2010, 01:40:27 PM
I watched this Mythic promo video yesterday.

The Reenlisters! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBsFuptcNnc)

Needs more Burnett to make me truly hate it. Otherwise, goddamn, is the economy really so bad that these developers have to shed all their dignity in 2 minutes and 39 seconds?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on September 30, 2010, 02:15:39 PM
Needs more Burnett to make me truly hate it.

Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Q4Kf6Vk_c), then think about how you can add another experience bar.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on September 30, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
I want to beat him to death with the still wet bones of disabled dead children.  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: eldaec on October 01, 2010, 11:41:20 AM
[edit]nm, I accidentally replied to something a  few pages back and that video is too awful to be distracted from it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Sparky on October 05, 2010, 12:41:36 PM
UO is 14.99 are they having a laugh  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: raydeen on October 09, 2010, 03:14:55 PM
Needs more Burnett to make me truly hate it.

Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Q4Kf6Vk_c), then think about how you can add another experience bar.

[derail]

Hate on the guy all you will but the point of that video is very valid. My old guild leader in EQ was all but paralyzed and outside of the game, her whole life revolved around her house and her little dog Dickens. She had no immediate family, was disabled enough that she couldn't work, and lived out in the boonies. The only time she ever really left the house was to make a trip to the Mayo clinic every few months for some new treatments. EQ (and later EQ2) gave her a life she wouldn't ordinarily have had. And she was a genuinely nice person. We were always happy to see her come and sad to see her go and I'd like to think she thought the same of us. Reflecting on this I think the reason EQ succeeded as well as it did was because, let's face it, there really wasn't much of a game there compared to say WoW. The players had to pretty much invent fun even if it was more social than anything. I think I had more fun helping others out and socializing than I actually did playing the game. Then WoW came along and said "Hey look at me! I'll take your $15 a month and you can have more fun faster and not have to group with a bunch of people you don't know or care about!!". To which all my Elder Scrolls games yelled "Hey! That's our job!!", but I wasn't listening.

[/derail]


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on October 09, 2010, 04:51:31 PM
I wasn't making fun of the point of the video, far from it, he gets it, yet he still helped make WAR.

Edit typed "was" meant "wasn't", fixed it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on October 09, 2010, 08:51:56 PM
We had a lady like that in our SWG player association.  I was glad we made her time there enjoyable.

I still wanted to kick Barnett in the face.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: raydeen on October 09, 2010, 10:21:26 PM
We had a lady like that in our SWG player association.  I was glad we made her time there enjoyable.

I still wanted to kick Barnett in the face.

Oh yeah, he needs to be pummeled. I was just bringing up a personal anecdote, hence the /derail tags. :) I did almost see him as human there for a second or two but then splashed my face with cold water.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on October 11, 2010, 02:14:10 PM
/Godwin

I'm sorry, but watching that touching video of Paul Burnett speaking about how "his game" helped sick children made me think of Mengele explaining how four arms makes Jews more productive workers.

/Godwin


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Trippy on October 13, 2010, 07:39:52 AM
Most recent discussion moved here:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19940.0


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Mrbloodworth on October 14, 2010, 12:36:02 PM


The Reenlisters! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBsFuptcNnc)



Use a tripod FFS, this isn't BSG!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on October 14, 2010, 06:24:07 PM
Use a tripod FFS, this isn't BSG!

They haven't implemented a stability bar yet  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brogarn on November 19, 2010, 06:14:13 AM
Anyone tried out the new 1.4 patch and changes that went with it?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Druzil on November 19, 2010, 03:02:20 PM
Anyone tried out the new 1.4 patch and changes that went with it?


I played it for a few hours last night, it’s definitely different.  The renown screen is awful.  Instead of a nice tree, it’s all just spit out into a giant list.  It makes it really hard to plan out your points unless you know exactly what you want beforehand. 

 I’m undecided if I like the new keep siege mechanics yet.   My initial impression is that flipping zones is much faster than before.  There’s no more waiting around for domination points and no more standing around at BOs waiting for them to flip. Also the lack of NPCs in the keeps makes it much harder for a smaller defense force to put up a reasonable fight against a larger warband.  As soon as the inner doors are down it’s pretty much an instant wipe if the groups aren’t balanced.

XP/Renown gain is either buggy or I just don’t understand it.  Sometimes we’d lose the zone and I’d get 6k renown.  Sometimes I’d die and get 2k renown. Other times we’d win a big battle and get nothing.  The general consensus seems to be that renown from healing is pretty outrageous.  From my limited time yesterday I’d have to agree that my renown went up considerably faster than normal.

I can’t comment much on the progression pack or about the end game, I just re-subbed a month ago for the first time since release and I started new characters.  So I’m just hitting the T4 stuff.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: March on November 19, 2010, 03:42:23 PM
Anyone tried out the new 1.4 patch and changes that went with it?


I played it for a few hours last night, it’s definitely different.  The renown screen is awful.  Instead of a nice tree, it’s all just spit out into a giant list.  It makes it really hard to plan out your points unless you know exactly what you want beforehand. 

 I’m undecided if I like the new keep siege mechanics yet.   My initial impression is that flipping zones is much faster than before.  There’s no more waiting around for domination points and no more standing around at BOs waiting for them to flip. Also the lack of NPCs in the keeps makes it much harder for a smaller defense force to put up a reasonable fight against a larger warband.  As soon as the inner doors are down it’s pretty much an instant wipe if the groups aren’t balanced.

XP/Renown gain is either buggy or I just don’t understand it.  Sometimes we’d lose the zone and I’d get 6k renown.  Sometimes I’d die and get 2k renown. Other times we’d win a big battle and get nothing.  The general consensus seems to be that renown from healing is pretty outrageous.  From my limited time yesterday I’d have to agree that my renown went up considerably faster than normal.

I can’t comment much on the progression pack or about the end game, I just re-subbed a month ago for the first time since release and I started new characters.  So I’m just hitting the T4 stuff.


Welp... couple more patches and a few more months and I'd say they'll be ready to implement DAoC Frontiers.  They should be proud.  Very Proud.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on November 19, 2010, 08:19:29 PM
What's the short summary in plain English of the patch changes?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Druzil on November 22, 2010, 08:42:04 AM
2 New DLC Packs available, $10 each, $15 for both
Progression Pack - Raises max renown rank from 80 to 100, 2 new armor sets & weapons, increased renown from RR 1-80
Personality Pack - New dyes, new mount, haircuts, pets

Rebalanced tiers
T1: 1-15
T2: 12-26
T3: 22-39
T4: 40

Overhaul of the Keep & Zone Control systems
All NPC's removed from Keeps & BO's, replaced with a flag.  Capturing the flag on a BO spawns a resource carrier that heads toward your keep, if he makes it the keep gains resources.  Resources level up the keep which in turn spawns better siege equipment for your keep and for assaulting the enemy keep.  Flipping the zone is now as easy as owning all the keeps, scenarios and skirmishes now play no part in zone control.  Also added new Gryphons for Arial bombing runs and sneaking people behind the walls in keeps.

Overhaul of all Renown Skill/Tactics
All renown tactics were removed.  All of the "get extra morale for killing a dwarf" type passives were removed.  Replaced with some new abilities and passives that seem much more powerful overall.  There's a crit/crit reduction/a cleanse/extra burst run etc.

Skaven Content
Skaven Dungeon, sort of play as Skaven in RvR

Loot Re-balance
All of the sets pre RR80 have been made easier to acquire.  Some of the token sets are just money now.  The sovereign set was moved from city siege stage 3 to stage 1.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on November 22, 2010, 09:46:47 AM
How do the Skaven actually work?  For a race a lot of people wanted to see, I've heard absolutely nothing besides, "Skaven! Play a Skaven! Skaven!"


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brennik on November 22, 2010, 01:52:23 PM
There's a few catches to actually playing one. First, you need to be realm rank 65+. Then, you get to play in that fancy Skaven dungeon which is a basically a 24vs24 scenario and the dungeon only opens for a zone when certain conditions are triggered (I think, I haven't been in there yet). If you manage to win your instance, you get warpstone residue or something as reward with the normal item drops and then you can use the warpstone to take control of a skaven unit at your keep.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: March on November 22, 2010, 05:55:28 PM
There's a few catches to actually playing one. First, you need to be realm rank 65+. Then, you get to play in that fancy Skaven dungeon which is a basically a 24vs24 scenario and the dungeon only opens for a zone when certain conditions are triggered (I think, I haven't been in there yet). If you manage to win your instance, you get warpstone residue or something as reward with the normal item drops and then you can use the warpstone to take control of a skaven unit at your keep.

I'm a little disappointed that there's not a progress bar to fill... but otherwise, what could go wrong with a system like that?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on November 22, 2010, 09:02:20 PM
First, you need to be realm rank 65+. Then, you get to play in that fancy Skaven dungeon which is a basically a 24vs24 scenario and the dungeon only opens for a zone when certain conditions are triggered

Are there enough people that have this realm rank to fill out a 24 man team?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brennik on November 23, 2010, 04:26:22 AM
Wee-ell, it's more instanced tomfoolery, I don't like that either. Then again, the Skaven are in no way required to capture the zones, they're just a little something extra to keep people interested.

There's plenty of people to fill the instances, at least on the Euro servers and Badlands. Everyone that's kept playing this long is basically pretty much guaranteed to be around realm rank 70 if they've done any RvR at all.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on November 23, 2010, 11:17:55 AM
There's a few catches to actually playing one. First, you need to be realm rank 65+. Then, you get to play in that fancy Skaven dungeon which is a basically a 24vs24 scenario and the dungeon only opens for a zone when certain conditions are triggered (I think, I haven't been in there yet). If you manage to win your instance, you get warpstone residue or something as reward with the normal item drops and then you can use the warpstone to take control of a skaven unit at your keep.



That is absolutely retarded.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on November 23, 2010, 11:34:49 AM
There's a few catches to actually playing one. First, you need to be realm rank 65+. Then, you get to play in that fancy Skaven dungeon which is a basically a 24vs24 scenario and the dungeon only opens for a zone when certain conditions are triggered (I think, I haven't been in there yet). If you manage to win your instance, you get warpstone residue or something as reward with the normal item drops and then you can use the warpstone to take control of a skaven unit at your keep.



That is absolutely retarded.

At least they are being consistent.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tannhauser on November 24, 2010, 05:35:45 AM
I like that keep taking flips the zone and only that.  I like that idea so much I thought about re-subbing.  BUT the skaven implementation is horseshit.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brogarn on November 24, 2010, 06:20:36 AM
I've been dicking with this off and on over the past couple of days using one of their 10 day free trial offers. The only impression I've gotten so far is that there's a hell of a lot more actual PvP going on. So, they're going in the right direction on that at least. Now, when the other side doesn't show up, sure, it's RvE. But it only takes a few to at least delay if not outright ruin your plans. Never mind when they show up with a warband to match. Then it's zerg on zerg DAoC style. Plus, you get the small group v group skirmishes going on at the Battlefield Objectives. Or, in some cases, 1v1. Just depends on who shows up. Honestly, it's pretty awesome. I'm sure there are flaws in the system I'm missing, but like I said, I think they're going in the right direction finally.

Personally, I couldn't give less of a shit about the Skaven stuff. /shrug


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Draegan on November 24, 2010, 10:35:44 AM
The new Keep changes seem pretty cool.  And I like how they removed a lot of the uselessness.

I still won't go back, but it seems like they are good changes. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rendakor on November 25, 2010, 02:29:14 AM
These changes all sound so good that I might give this another shot...



...once it goes F2P.  :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on December 01, 2010, 02:36:25 PM
I kinda wanted this to succeed, so that I could have faith that MAYBE Mythic could put it all together in a new MMO later down the road...

But... I don't think EA will shell out another 100million again...


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on December 01, 2010, 10:53:49 PM
Not to Mythic, who exist almost in name only.

EA is too busy giving all their milkshake to BioWare, anyway.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Chinchilla on December 06, 2010, 09:07:19 AM
I'm reinstalling and patching this to give it a try after my disappointment with AoC post-Tortage.  Gonna start with a trail account first before I resub my main account I had. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on December 06, 2010, 10:10:16 AM
In the past they've had come back to WAR trials for main accounts for 14 days.  It might be worth seeing if that's still active.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Chinchilla on December 06, 2010, 12:21:26 PM
In the past they've had come back to WAR trials for main accounts for 14 days.  It might be worth seeing if that's still active.

That's not a bad idea.  I'll have to see if I have one floating around in my email.  I know I logged into the accounts screen on my main account and it still showed as deactive.

I'm just desperately looking for something that has PvP, is fun, and doesn't require me to be behind the keys everyday.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Malakili on December 09, 2010, 01:31:44 PM

I'm just desperately looking for something that has PvP, is fun, and doesn't require me to be behind the keys everyday.

I'd honestly suggest something other than an MMORPG if this is your goal, but if you are dead set on this genre, then WAR may be your best bet.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Chinchilla on December 09, 2010, 06:50:34 PM

I'm just desperately looking for something that has PvP, is fun, and doesn't require me to be behind the keys everyday.

I'd honestly suggest something other than an MMORPG if this is your goal, but if you are dead set on this genre, then WAR may be your best bet.

I am always open to suggestions.  I'm not that dead set to be honest.  What would you suggest?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: tazelbain on December 09, 2010, 07:54:18 PM
Have you tried LoL?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Chinchilla on December 10, 2010, 08:01:07 AM
Have you tried LoL?

What's LoL?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on December 10, 2010, 08:28:48 AM
League of Legends.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Chinchilla on December 10, 2010, 01:22:34 PM
League of Legends.

Oh I downloaded that.  I haven't installed it yet.  I'm gonna install that tonight and give it a try.  What's your opinion of it?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Malakili on December 10, 2010, 01:55:06 PM
League of Legends would be worth trying for sure, as would Bloodline Champions I suspect.  Basically, if you want both PvP and not having to play every day, I'd suggest something without character progression, because its so easy to fall behind.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on December 11, 2010, 06:41:51 PM
LoL is fun if you want your game dominated by poopsockers grinding for all the best heroes/skills or moneybags buying all the best heroes/skills.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: tazelbain on December 11, 2010, 09:39:13 PM
Sure, if you absolutely must climb the ranked ladder.  But for casual playing, not important.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: veredus on December 12, 2010, 08:00:23 PM
Try to find a World of Tanks beta key. Great fun for PvP and can play occasionally and have fun.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: FatuousTwat on December 13, 2010, 01:58:18 AM
Try to find a World of Tanks beta key. Great fun for PvP and can play occasionally and have fun.

http://www.shatteredcrystal.com/index.php/free_items


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 18, 2010, 03:06:28 PM
The questionable updates on the twitter feed I knew about, the giant bomb thing is new to me so thought would repost here, it's already been posted on vn boards (http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/114174674/p1/?8).

http://twitter.com/cgouskos
http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/carrie/games/

(http://imgur.com/u9EYU.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/7Z4xG.jpg)

Personal life and work life separate, yeah yeah I get it, but there's a difference between having to dig for this kind of information and "killing people in the face" with your 51 days in WoW.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on December 18, 2010, 06:27:40 PM
This is incredibly, incredibly nitpicky. Even if you make the best game in the world the LAST thing you want to do is go home and play it in your off-hours. There's nothing "questionable" about those tweets. And the VN boards reek of the sort of entitlement only nerds can muster.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kail on December 18, 2010, 06:39:19 PM
Even if you make the best game in the world the LAST thing you want to do is go home and play it in your off-hours.

Doubly true with an MMO, I'd wager.  I can see a CoD dev really enjoying CoD or something, but when you know you can just spawn a tier_7_uber_helmet for your work character when you head in to the office tomorrow, there's really not much incentive to run the same raid over and over again for a week to grind it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 19, 2010, 09:21:52 AM
This is incredibly, incredibly nitpicky. Even if you make the best game in the world the LAST thing you want to do is go home and play it in your off-hours. There's nothing "questionable" about those tweets. And the VN boards reek of the sort of entitlement only nerds can muster.

Yup, it sure is nitpicky, as for questionable, if I thought it was clearly wrong I'd have said so.  I chose the word "questionable" because as a known news source for Mythic updates via twitter with 2,000 followers I do think it's questionable to be promoting xbox live and WoW, as clearly others do too, nerds or not.

It's not like WoW and Mythic devs don't have a history, Paul said he'd never played it.  The SA forums had people saying Mythic devs in their guilds appeared to be playing more WoW then WAR during the release of WAR.  Sanya even wrote about it (http://www.examiner.com/mmorpg-in-national/wow-patch-3-1-the-secrets-of-ulduar).

Quote
Anyway, enough of my ranting. The point was, at the company to which I refer, it was pretty clear that if you wanted a seat at the idea table, you needed to be in the team leader's WoW guild. That was where everyone was bonding, building their relationships, and drawing all of their plans. Since I was supposed to doing some consulting with that team, I installed the game.

I uninstalled it the same night. It was a highly polished, smooth and easy experience. It was brilliantly executed with a lot of humor and style. Every rough edge had been meticulously sanded off, and for the first time in my life I found myself reading quest text written by someone with a mastery of English grammar and punctuation.

And I felt exactly like I did when I did the "It's A Small World" ride at Disneyland. I felt like a hamster being nudged through a maze with no branching tunnels, just one long piece of orange pipe. I felt like the genre had finally been reduced to the simplest possible Skinner box, and the lore didn't interest me enough to distract me from the pellet bar whacking.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on December 19, 2010, 06:38:52 PM
As best I could tell, WAR doesn't even have its achievements attached to Giant Bomb like WoW does.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brogarn on December 20, 2010, 06:44:16 AM
I sometimes think that Mythic touched Arthur in a bad place because this isn't even worth taking the time to insert the images into a post.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 20, 2010, 07:25:35 AM
That's true, I don't like being deceived, as for the images, took 60 seconds, I've linked stuff before only to have it disappear, the only reason this isn't causing a major fuss is a combination of very low playerbase and expectations.   

I think WAR finally broke me for mmo's, apart from watching this one sink and following DMO, I'm not even reading about anything else.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on December 20, 2010, 08:41:32 AM
The only reason it isn't causing a fuss is because it's stupid. I know, personally, video game developers across five or six different MMO companies at this point. Know how many play WoW as their main game? All of them. Know how many admit it publicly, or say the opposite? About a quarter of them. The Norwegians at the helm of Conan during development, talking about fine wine and steak? LOVED WoW. Some of them even loved... VANGUARD. Oh they didn't ADMIT it, of course. Trion? Same thing. Mythic? Yep. Dudes over at Icarus? Oh yeah and they made a game that wasn't even like WoW.

As far as Cary Whatsherface I don't recall her ever saying "I do not play WoW" even if it mattered, which it doesn't. There's plenty of shit to be pissed off about when it comes to this game. This is not one of them. This is dumb as fuck.

EDIT: Reread a bit and people are using her personal twitter feed as a primary news source for Mythic news? Fuck them, that's their damage. Chrissake, that's her personal twitter feed. Mythic has a very separate, very official twitter feed quite apart from this. This is actively making me angry. And you fucking people wonder why game devs have disdain for their audience.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 20, 2010, 08:50:36 AM
That's not what I was saying, not sure why you are getting so upset, I don't think this is a big deal, I was saying if the game was in a better state, population wise and mood wise, more players would.  If you want to argue the vn thread wouldn't be longer and WA wouldn't have picked this up if there were more players, go right ahead.  Mythic charged people dozens of times, on the scale of fuck ups this doesn't even register, it's still a minor blip even if you don't think people questioning something makes something questionable.

Edit Actually your reaction made a somewhat tame item, entertaining, so thanks.  The thread on vnboards has disappeared, they normally just lock them, not sure if that's temporary or not but jokes on me for screenshoting the wrong thing.  :drillf:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lum on December 20, 2010, 05:06:21 PM
OMG PERSON WHO MAKES MMOS FOR A LIVING PLAYS MMOS (http://raptr.com/Lum)

ALERT MEDIA OUTLETS


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 20, 2010, 05:23:15 PM
You know, I almost used you as an example.  Why have you always had a disclaimer on your blog since you first got employed at Mythic?

It should be obvious that your personal opinions should in no way reflect on your employers, yet you put it there because people are stupid.

If you guys want to keep missing the point, that's fine with me, I didn't think it was that major a thing but I've obviously crossed some kind of invisible line commenting on it.

edit, or to put it another way, how come there's no employment details on your twitter feed?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Cadaverine on December 20, 2010, 05:34:57 PM
I think the primary difference is that Lum is a commentator, and Carrie is just playing some video games. 

I could be wrong, of course.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 20, 2010, 05:41:18 PM
I haven't checked so I might be caught out here, but I'd bet Lum doesn't release mini press releases for his employer through either his blog or his twitter feed.  I imagine he keeps them separate.

If people really are telling me that a substantial portion of the 2000 followers Carrie has on twitter are not there because she updates on Mythic news then how come Scott has 795 followers when he actually is a commentator?

It should go without saying that WAR players are a bit twitchy about WoW, not to mention vn feeling the need to delete the thread.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 20, 2010, 05:48:45 PM
Just to make myself perfectly clear, I've linked far stupider player behaviour in the past.  That doesn't mean I approve of it, I said it was questionable because I saw the potential to give the players something to moan about for no good reason, not because I believe devs shouldn't play games, Christ on a bike.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Cadaverine on December 20, 2010, 05:57:30 PM
Eh, I admit answering War related questions from her personal twitter account is a bit odd.  I don't get the bit about her promoting WoW, though, given she last played it in Oct, 2009 according to the GiantBomb page.  The Xbox live achievement notices look to be automated updates from GB. 

Maybe I'm missing something?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 20, 2010, 05:59:47 PM
Just me regretting I posted about it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Brogarn on December 20, 2010, 06:02:39 PM
Just me regretting I posted about it.

Heh. I know that feeling.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on December 20, 2010, 08:50:34 PM
Just me regretting I posted about it.

I read it as players getting a weak laugh out of a competing developer playing WoW. It was interesting enough to post.

However, it does open up the issue of being a well-known dev with public accounts that do things like track the games you play. It isn't fair that people will criticise those games, but it is going to happen.

I think it also pricked the PC fanboi Console Kneejerk by seeing how many Xbox 360 games a PC MMO developer was playing.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lum on December 20, 2010, 10:25:02 PM
I haven't checked so I might be caught out here, but I'd bet Lum doesn't release mini press releases for his employer through either his blog or his twitter feed.  I imagine he keeps them separate.

I have on rare occasions made notice of something I did that was work-related but always make any potential conflict of interest very obvious. (http://brokentoys.org/2010/01/19/a-note-from-my-day-job/)

If people really are telling me that a substantial portion of the 2000 followers Carrie has on twitter are not there because she updates on Mythic news then how come Scott has 795 followers when he actually is a commentator?

Unlike me, Carrie, I believe, actually posts on Twitter, whereas I usually just use it to dump notices when I make blog posts. Plus, Carrie is far more visible in the Warhammer community being the leader of the development team.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 21, 2010, 02:31:41 AM
Lum, did I have a point saying it was "questionable" or not?  

I seem to remember some site ages ago going an awful lot further and calling for some dev to be fired for a reason I no longer remember.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 21, 2010, 02:48:35 AM
This is incredibly, incredibly nitpicky. Even if you make the best game in the world the LAST thing you want to do is go home and play it in your off-hours. There's nothing "questionable" about those tweets. And the VN boards reek of the sort of entitlement only nerds can muster.

I'm willing to bet the WoW Devs play WoW in their off hours.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lum on December 21, 2010, 01:49:19 PM
Depends on what you're saying is questionable.

Should she be using her personal Twitter feed to post official news/updates? No. (I don't know if she does or not, but that's not something I'd ever recommend. You Are Not Your Employer.)

Should she not play any games besides the one she works on? Come on. Seriously?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 21, 2010, 01:57:56 PM
The OP

Personal life and work life separate, yeah yeah I get it, but there's a difference between having to dig for this kind of information and "killing people in the face" with your 51 days in WoW.

&

I said it was questionable because I saw the potential to give the players something to moan about for no good reason, not because I believe devs shouldn't play games.

Good, we are in complete agreement.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 21, 2010, 02:10:17 PM
https://twitter.com/cgouskos/status/578125838684160

4:00 PM Nov 5th via web
Quote
The Verminous Horde: http://bit.ly/dDwf2M

https://twitter.com/MythicNews/status/576767605608448
3:54 PM Nov 5th via twitterfeed
Quote
Producer's Letter - October 2010 http://bit.ly/9pzcpE

Mythic News beat her by 6 minutes, but on actually mentioning the Verminous Horde by name instead of buried in the producers letter, she beat MythicNews by 8 days (https://twitter.com/MythicNews/status/3246103340257280)

Maybe that's a fluke, it was the first news item I went for.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lum on December 21, 2010, 04:25:49 PM
Personal life and work life separate, yeah yeah I get it, but there's a difference between having to dig for this kind of information and "killing people in the face" with your 51 days in WoW.

I have over 900 days /played in WoW according to my Raptr profile, which is linked off my blog. Does this mean I am killing people in the face who play CoH or Aion?

If your argument is solely "pimping your game's patch notes in your personal social networking profile is inappropriate", I can get behind that. But who cares if she plays WoW (for, mind you, far less than I have, and I am anything but a hardcore player). Demanding that she not play a competing game is insanely juvenile.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 21, 2010, 04:46:46 PM
What argument?  I agreed with you completely, "questionable" was entirely it, it might have been "oh oh", "trouble ahead", "that's not a great idea", "Danger, Will Robinson" or "ayup" (Yorkshire slang).

Demanding that she not play a competing game is insanely juvenile.

Yes it is, I'd link you the insanely juvenile vn thread that her twitter update spawned, so you could see exactly how juvenile the comments were, but vn felt the need to actually delete it.  I've said it before and meant it, players are perfectly predictable.

Edit to add.

Turns out the official forums have picked it up (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/232/index/5522349/1).

Quote
plays WoW ey... that explains why nobody has heard from her in months. i think shes working for WoW now and is secretly feeding mythic these shoddy ideas which are killing WAR even quicker


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tannhauser on December 21, 2010, 05:07:48 PM
Yes...WoW's 'shoddy ideas' will kill WAR... :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 21, 2010, 05:10:11 PM
Still on 1st page, my favourite so far.

Quote
I read somewhere there was originally supposed to be 6 cities. But the goblin city was designed with tiny doors that orks could not fit through so they scrapped the whole idea.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 21, 2010, 05:23:25 PM
Andy's twitter account seems to have disappeared.  Just because I don't like to think I'm a complete dick I'll explain something, I thought the xbox tweets were a bad idea weeks ago, I along with many others, I'm sure, was following for Mythic news.  

But it's like a minor thing so I didn't post it here, I saw the vn thread with the WoW link and reposted here with screen grabs because the logical thing to do is delete the tweets or the giantbomb profile.  I didn't expect vn to delete the thread, that almost never works because it pisses people off, it's never been my intention ever (I hope) to make anyone's personal life more difficult.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on December 21, 2010, 05:27:20 PM
Begs to question if WoW and EvE are the MMOs of choice for non-Blizzard game devs?  If so, how come they fail to learn anything from their own gaming experience.  Is WoW really the result of such a significant investment or is it that there devs just have done a better job at learning what the gaming population wants from their product?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 21, 2010, 06:08:51 PM
Warhammer Alliance (Server forum) starting to pick it up (http://www.whalliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337167)

Andy just renamed his twitter account and removed Mythic from the title.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on December 21, 2010, 06:26:13 PM
I want to punch the first poster in that WHA thread in the face.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 21, 2010, 06:29:39 PM
Danger, Will Robinson! (http://www.secondskinfilm.com/content/andy-belford)

Trailer is...... interesting.

Edit, oh it's from before he was hired by Mythic.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on December 21, 2010, 07:23:13 PM
It's the end of the WAR as we know it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 22, 2010, 04:22:47 AM
EDIT: Reread a bit and people are using her personal twitter feed as a primary news source for Mythic news? Fuck them, that's their damage. Chrissake, that's her personal twitter feed. Mythic has a very separate, very official twitter feed quite apart from this. This is actively making me angry.

That's a good point, I went back and checked why I was following her twitter account, I couldn't remember why I had the impression it was for news.

1.3.4 Producer's Letter - Carrie Gouskos 02/24/2010 (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1035)

Quote
To start with, you should absolutely expect to hear from me at least once a month via the producer’s letter. I may not have breaking news, but I do want to check in and let you know the general vibe of the team. Additionally, we’ll be upping communication via your popular social-media outlets, such as Twitter (Community team note: you can follow Carrie’s Twitter at http/twitter.com/cgouskos) as well as greater and earlier insights into our features via not-so-disguised threads on our official forums.

Turns out it was via a recommendation from the Warhammer Herald.

And you fucking people wonder why game devs have disdain for their audience.

That's not such a good point.

Ok, I'm aware I'm belabouring the point here, that's not because this is an important issue, it's because several people told me I was wrong to even mention this.  But at this point I expect even Lum is facepalming, unless his employer somehow has been linking his twitter feed/blog from company to customer information releases (Again I might be caught out there, I haven't checked).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 22, 2010, 10:50:34 AM
But who cares if she plays WoW (for, mind you, far less than I have, and I am anything but a hardcore player). Demanding that she not play a competing game is insanely juvenile.

I personally would rather those folks did play WoW and EvE and many other games.  You gotta know what your competition is doing right. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on December 22, 2010, 11:21:13 AM
They play, but never learn the right lessons.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: KallDrexx on December 22, 2010, 11:29:54 AM
I personally would rather those folks did play WoW and EvE and many other games.  You gotta know what your competition is doing right. 

Playing other games is good (even if they aren't direct competitors) because it helps keep you in tune with what makes games fun and what people enjoy about games.  However, that has to be balanced with playing your own game, because developing a game and playing a game gives two *very* different perspectives on a game, and the latter is the only perspective that matters in the end.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on December 22, 2010, 11:39:53 AM
But who cares if she plays WoW (for, mind you, far less than I have, and I am anything but a hardcore player). Demanding that she not play a competing game is insanely juvenile.

I don't think Arthur could care less about what any developer plays, how much, or if they troll on live jasmine. He's highlighted some thing that bothers me; that any company or employee would allow a personal account to be used for any voice or news of the company. It seems counter productive not to have a warhammer_generic_pr account or a blog and feed everything via it. In this situation as AP linked Mythic is directly linking to her feed from a newsletter. What happens if the relationship goes south, there's exposure that no IT department could "secure" in a timely manner. Now they have a validated news source outside of their control that their CR validated by posting it in an official newsletter  :uhrr:

With new social networking people totally ignore the separation of personal and work data.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 22, 2010, 02:12:08 PM
Not that it matters what I think but I criticised Paul for not playing it, I'm hardly likely to go 180 degrees and say Carrie shouldn't play it.  

The WAR players seem to be in a bit of an information vacuum at the minute on the future of the game.  As an ex player I was interested in Skaven, I read a few interviews about them, glanced over some patch notes, even watched a video, it really appeared to me that further info was being teased to stretch things out but reluctantly delivered.  For all that effort I learnt the most in a post a few pages back when someone here summed the changes up in a few sentences.  Not that I'm that bothered about the detail of WAR game changes anymore, but that would annoy me as a player.

But put this is context, Carrie is in charge, her introductory producers letter says "To start with, you should absolutely expect to hear from me at least once a month via the producer’s letter. I may not have breaking news, but I do want to check in and let you know the general vibe of the team. Additionally, we’ll be upping communication via your popular social-media outlets, such as Twitter (Community team note: you can follow Carrie’s Twitter at http/twitter.com/cgouskos) as well as greater and earlier insights into our features via not-so-disguised threads on our official forums."

More communication, at least once a month, twitter, here's Carrie's twitter.  WARHerald 2,362 followers, cgouskos 2,047 followers, cgouskos is meant to be a personal account?

Now imagine actually being a WAR player hoping for some of this, at least once a month, communication using twitter and seeing xbox, xbox, xbox, xbox, then link to 51 days in WoW.

http://www.weritsblog.com/2009/09/interview-with-warhammers-carrie.html

Quote
Werit: Any plans to branch out Realm War into services such as RSS or Twitter?

Carrie Gouskos: Why yes! RSS has been on the top of our to-do list for awhile, but we just didn’t get to it. Twitter is an interesting beast, I’ve been using it for awhile now and while I think it’s great, I think a lot of companies who try to use it for marketing end up using it in the wrong way. Currently we just have individual staff accounts that aren’t really official, and one official account that gives Herald news. And I kind of like it like that.

It isn't a personal account, it's a staff account (that isn't really official) hmm.  James and Andy both had Mythic in their twitter names, James still does, all three had full job descriptions, Andy has very recently dropped Mythic from his name, deleted his employment info and added a disclaimer about it being a personal account.

Twitter is new, amateur hour on something new is forgiveable to some extent, Andy is on the ball the other's aren't.  Josh is still listed in the Mythic twitter group, Carrie isn't even in it, not because it's her personal account but because they obviously just stopped updating it when they lost interest.  Bit like WAR really.

And now for some German bitching (http://daoc-guide.4players.de/forums/showthread.php?p=1950425#post1950425).

Edit to correct, Andy still has Community Guy for BioWare on twitter in addition to the personal disclaimer, twitter was down earlier so I went from memory.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 23, 2010, 11:50:33 AM
http://twitter.com/cgouskos

Quote from: cgouskos about 5 hours ago via web
Dinner with @adegen who made a compelling argument why I should come back to WoW. My counter: Gave my account away last year. Stalemate.

 :drillf:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on December 23, 2010, 11:53:24 AM
I think she's just trolling you now AP.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 23, 2010, 11:56:14 AM
That's possible, it's more interesting than the xbox ones anyway.

Edit, It gave her forum thread a nice bump too. (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/232/index/5522349/5)

Quote from: hero 2
Quote
cgouskos

Dinner with @adegen who made a compelling argument why I should come back to WoW. My counter: Gave my account away last year. Stalemate.

about 2 hours ago via web

So... not... "I don't want to", then? Hrmph.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on December 23, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
To be fair, a lot of community and community facing people use their private social networks to pimp news from their game. I have a whole bunch of CMs on Facebook, LinkedIn and so on and a good deal of the daily traffic on their personal account is stuff like server status, beta updates and news articles.

Whether that's a good idea or not is a separate conversation to have but Carrie is hardly unique in mixing up her personal life and her work like that.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 23, 2010, 01:28:58 PM
She's letting people know that someone was trying to persuade her to play WoW again, but she can't because she gave away her WoW account.  She's doing it on a twitter feed that was directly linked from her first Warhammer Producers letter, that was hosted on the Warhammer online official website.  The same producers letter that was reposted word for word, including the twitter feed, to numerous Warhammer Online news sites (I'd link a few of them but why doubt me?).

And this is fine, because it's her "personal" feed.

Ok, then I'm fine with it too, you convinced me, what she does in her personal life is none of anyone elses business.

Now, Iain given your experience in mmo customer relations, if you were a Mythic community rep, how would you recommend dealing with the threads popping up on the official & fansite forums about your bosses personal twitter feed?  


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on December 23, 2010, 02:34:51 PM
I think you're mistaking me for someone who thinks it's a good idea in the first place. I'm just pointing out that it happens quite a lot.

I'm aware of the context and the history (having y'know read the half dozen or so posts above this one already) and if it were me I wouldn't have been linking to a personal twitter/Facebook profile/whatever in a newsletter. That being said, people in leadership positions at computer games companies tend to be known by name to the fans of those same games and it's not hard to do a little triangulating to figure out whether the J.Random profile you just pulled out of a Google search is in fact the very same J.Random who's heading the team for your digital crack of choice. Not that this makes it a good idea to remove that fairly trivial hurdle mind.

Since you asked what I'd do, I'd have set up a series of official micro-blogging feeds that were 'official and named' for each of the staff who might reasonably be expected to be the focus of fan attention. They'd post their random thoughts about their job there along with real-life lite stuff that gives the veneer of actual humanity to the feed ('Watching Tron, so awesome! We should totally have light-cycles in our game' sort of stuff). Under no circumstances would I be encouraging my community to cyberstalk the actual personal networks of anyone.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 24, 2010, 05:07:19 AM
Should she be using her personal Twitter feed to post official news/updates? No. (I don't know if she does or not, but that's not something I'd ever recommend. You Are Not Your Employer.)

It's great that we all agree with Lum.

Here's how Andy dealt with it.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/232/index/5522349/6

Quote from: Andy
This thread has degraded into personal insults and bashing.

Locked
(http://mythicmktg.fileburst.net/war/us/herald/images/community/Andy/Andy-banner.gif) (http://twitter.com/#!/andybelford)

The rolling signature image that links to his personal twitter feed was a nice touch.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Azazel on December 25, 2010, 01:27:10 AM
Still on 1st page, my favourite so far.

Quote
I read somewhere there was originally supposed to be 6 cities. But the goblin city was designed with tiny doors that orks could not fit through so they scrapped the whole idea.

I heard somewhere that the internet is full of fuckwads that post whatever bullshit pops into their heads.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Azazel on December 25, 2010, 01:32:34 AM
http://twitter.com/cgouskos

Quote from: cgouskos about 5 hours ago via web
Dinner with @adegen who made a compelling argument why I should come back to WoW. My counter: Gave my account away last year. Stalemate.

 :drillf:

Isn't that a TOS/EULA violation? In both WoW and WAR? Good example for the players?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 25, 2010, 10:33:14 AM
Still on 1st page, my favourite so far.

Quote
I read somewhere there was originally supposed to be 6 cities. But the goblin city was designed with tiny doors that orks could not fit through so they scrapped the whole idea.

I heard somewhere that the internet is full of fuckwads that post whatever bullshit pops into their heads.


I was quoting two really stupid comments, that was one of them.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratama on December 25, 2010, 03:24:39 PM
Hate to butt in with this, but I actually can't seem to find the answer either via a quick perusal of this thread, or WHA; Phoenix Throne is dead, right?  No more special rules servers of any kind left up, and down to three servers total now?

And rereading this thread = depressing.  What a first-rate fuck-job Jacobs & Co. put on this game.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on December 25, 2010, 05:56:25 PM
Pretty sure it's just normal rules servers now, yeah.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: waffel on December 26, 2010, 02:24:02 AM
This game is like taking a spoiled glass of milk, putting it in a dark spot of your basement, and leaving it there for a few years. Then, every few months you go downstairs and a peek at it, wondering what the hell its mutated into next all the while wondering why it hasn't been thrown out yet.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratama on December 28, 2010, 01:02:05 AM
I would use undercooked meat instead of milk, but yeah.

And the grand reveal after the trainwreck that they didn't even like PvP, or wanted to make a PvP game... ffs, why the Warhammer IP, then?

Edit: No, seriously, why the Warhammer IP?  Pretty sure I've read the how's and why's of the rest.  Was Mark or someone else at Mythic a big Warhammer fan, or something?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on December 28, 2010, 08:12:53 PM
I haven't looked into it, but:

1) it was an existing IP that would appeal to nerds; taking that on would save art / backstory writing time.

2) there'd been some interest in the previous version of the Warhammer Online game before it collapsed.

3) one of the common themes around WoW's success was "established IP", which Warhammer falls under.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Kail on December 28, 2010, 09:10:39 PM
3) one of the common themes around WoW's success was "established IP", which Warhammer falls under.

I suspect that if you wanted to make a WoW clone, Warhammer would be among your top choices.  Warcraft has a lot of visual and thematic similarities with Warhammer already, and it would make a fairly good video game since it's already a tabletop game rather than a story (meaning it's basically a setting, as opposed to something like LotR where you have the problem of mashing the players into the storyline somewhere but not really being able to change it).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on December 28, 2010, 10:29:37 PM
Heh, the original press release (http://www.gamershell.com/companies/mythic_entertainment/235972.html). Read it and weep.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Fordel on December 28, 2010, 11:58:52 PM
Man, was Imperator really still alive then?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratama on December 29, 2010, 03:20:00 AM
Yeah, that was depressing...

Are we sure someone wasn't caught in bed with someone's cousin during a Mythic/GW press junket or something?

Anyway; Warcraft was a cuddlier, cartoonier ripoff of Warhammer... Warhammer's IP is actually not something that I would think an MMO dev house would look at and say "WoW Clone material!".  In the grand scheme of things, there really aren't that many people that play Warhammer, and i wouldn't think it's a setting that lends itself to being attractive to female gamers at all (amongst other issues).

If they really thought that IP would be a positive (with the IP owners breathing down their necks during development, to boot)... yeesh, what a fuckup.






Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 29, 2010, 03:45:41 AM
If they really thought that IP would be a positive (with the IP owners breathing down their necks during development, to boot)... yeesh, what a fuckup.

There's a simple test, name a better Fantasy IP.  I'm not defending the choices they made after picking the IP, but saying "lol, why pick warhammer, idiots" after the game turned out to be shit doesn't mean anything.

Also there's also zero public evidence that GW acted like cocks during development, they changed the IP a couple of times just at Mythic's request.  It wouldn't surprise me if GW were difficult to work with but this forum is full of dozens of bad points about WAR, the IP and GW seem to be pretty far down the list.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratama on December 29, 2010, 09:21:55 AM
Self-owned IP ftw.  I doubt any hit MMO will ever use 3d party IP; you give up too much to gain too little.

Hell, there are multiple fantasy IPs that would make much better PvE-oriented DIKUs, anyway (Steven Erickson's Malazan series, for example, details what would roughly be a gajillion's year's worth of raid encounters).

As far as GW goes... it's not a matter of them 'acting like cocks', imo; it's more, did they act in what they saw as the best long-term interest of of their IP, to the detriment of WHO?  Can't imagine that they didn't do that at all.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: KallDrexx on December 29, 2010, 09:34:16 AM
Licensing the Warhammer IP was probably the only right decision Mythic made for this game.  Using the DAOC IP is extremely risky because you then have two games competing against each other (same reason SOE regrets using the EQ IP and name for EQ2), and at the time they licensed Warhammer DAOC was still doing OK.  Also, creating a brand new IP is extremely hard with so much competition around.

The game mechanics sucked, any fun wasn't lasting, and they relied too much on public quests.  Like it has been said, the failure had nothing to do with the IP, the IP alone is probably what has kept it around for as long as it has.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 29, 2010, 09:38:10 AM
Self-owned IP ftw.

That's not what you said.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on December 29, 2010, 09:53:24 AM
The IP alone is what pushed a million boxes out the door. That part is emphatically NOT a failure. The IP was fine.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Typhon on December 29, 2010, 09:59:18 AM
I agree that the IP just doesn't matter beyond "eyes on box", unless your game works against the IP, or the IP works against the type of game you are creating.

  • Need no IP - DaoC, Guild Wars.  I'd also throw CoX in here, as they would have been more popular if they had reduced the grind and had figured out how difficult they wanted the game to be upfront.
  • Work against your IP - SWG.
  • IP works against you - LotRO.  I think this IP only works with a strategic war game.  There is just something soul crushing about creating a character in a fantasy game where you know the final resolution results in the death of magic.
  • WAY more players than the IP could be accounted for (at the time of release) - WoW.  Positive beta word-of-mouth and the game being very solid and accessible account for more than the IP, imo.
  • IP is beneficial from a marketing perspective - WAR, AoC, Star Trek Online.
  • IP just doesn't matter - Champions Online

WAR and AoC go off the rails after the first X levels.  It has nothing to do with the IP, it has everything to do with the game ceasing to be fun after a certain point. 

In the case of WAR, it has everything to do with the developers not focusing on their strong suit, and spending too much energy trying to compete head-to-head with the best in the business. 
In the case of Conan, the developer simply couldn't afford to create a couple dozen Tortages (which would be an awesome game, actually).


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Typhon on December 29, 2010, 10:07:37 AM
The IP alone is what pushed a million boxes out the door. That part is emphatically NOT a failure. The IP was fine.

Here's my take on what drove #s of box sales (which I admit is worth nothing):

IP - 25%
Idea that the game would be an improvement on DaoC combined with positive buzz on the first 20 levels - 25%
Boredom with WoW -  50%

But honestly how many people actually give a shit about the Warhammer IP or played DaoC?  Probably I'm not giving boredom with WoW enough credit.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on December 29, 2010, 10:30:30 AM
I think WoW ennui was certainly a big driver but it would be a mistake to shortchange the IP. In the not so distant past GW games outsold everything in the hobby market, D&D included. Unsure about now but it's pervasive in Europe and it's high profile in the States, too.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rendakor on December 29, 2010, 11:58:18 AM
Honestly the fact that it was Warhammer was a big selling point for me. I've never seriously played the table top game either (too expensive, fuck assembling and painting minis), but some of my friends do and I'd sat in/watched a few games and read some of the novels.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratama on December 29, 2010, 06:26:56 PM
The IP alone is what pushed a million boxes out the door. That part is emphatically NOT a failure. The IP was fine.
Bullshit; there's barely a million people that have played Warhammer alive today (if that), let alone interested in playing a Warhammer MMO. Certainly less people have paid $$$ to GW for Warhammer crap than have subscribed to DAoC at some point.

Boredom with WoW + Mythic's recognition via DAoC sold a million boxes.

Warhammer would be a great IP for a PvP game, not arguing that. DAoC with Warhammer skins would have been a bit grindy for more PvPers, but it would have worked as an RvR (each race its own faction; practically unlimited expansion possibilities).

But a WoW clone?  Notsomuch; I'm rather surprised some of you think Warhammer = good PvE IP.
Self-owned IP ftw.

That's not what you said.
? PvP IP for PvP games = good, PvP IP for PvE games = bad.  Self owned IP = bestest.  I didn't say that?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on December 29, 2010, 06:51:14 PM
Bullshit; there's barely a million people that have played Warhammer alive today (if that), let alone interested in playing a Warhammer MMO. Certainly less people have paid $$$ to GW for Warhammer crap than have subscribed to DAoC at some point.

You are wrong in both of your assertions above (speaking as someone who knows both the Warhammer brand penetration and the DAoC sub numbers).

Boredom with WoW + Mythic's recognition via DAoC sold a million boxes.

More people have played Warhammer, read a novel or painted a miniature than have ever even heard of DAoC or Mythic.

A good IP will bring players but only a good game will keep them.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on December 29, 2010, 08:31:08 PM
Bullshit; there's barely a million people that have played Warhammer alive today
[/quote]

Do some research before you run your mouth. They're a publicly traded company so all of this is a matter of public record. I also used to manage a store way back when they were at the height of their market penetration so was privy to enough numbers to know it's well over a million living people. Peg your number several multiples of a million and you're closer to the mark.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rendakor on December 30, 2010, 12:35:22 AM
Most of us came to WAR expecting a PVP game, not a PVE game, so I'm not sure what your point is. In fact, I leveled almost exclusively through PVP in WAR (skirmishes) and had a great time of it until T3. It was like WoW PVP but new and with instant queues (on my server/faction, etc.) and XP.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 30, 2010, 01:24:03 AM
Bullshit
:drillf:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratama on December 30, 2010, 08:17:00 PM
Most of us came to WAR expecting a PVP game, not a PVE game, so I'm not sure what your point is.
My point is that, after the fact, you had Barnett and other devs admit that they don't enjoy PvP themselves, and weren't really interested in making a PvP/RvR game.  So why go get a PvP IP?
Quote
:drillf:

Yeah, getting into an argument with Warhammer fans about GW and their insane hobby is sorta like starting an argument over religiion.

I am sorry.  So very, very sorry.  :cry2:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on December 30, 2010, 09:29:35 PM
I haven't played in seven years. I can't afford it and I don't consider myself a fan anymore. You were demonstrably wrong which is why you were told to shut up.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: squirrel on December 30, 2010, 10:01:13 PM


Yeah, getting into an argument with Warhammer fans about GW and their insane hobby is sorta like starting an argument over religiion.

I am sorry.  So very, very sorry.  :cry2:

Noone here is a fanboy, they just happen to know a fuck of lot more than you do about this topic, and probably many others. Don't be a douchebag, admit you were wrong with some humility and move on.

For fucks sake.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Rendakor on December 31, 2010, 02:28:06 AM
My point is that, after the fact, you had Barnett and other devs admit that they don't enjoy PvP themselves, and weren't really interested in making a PvP/RvR game.  So why go get a PvP IP?
Because regardless of what they enjoyed or whatever, they made a decent PVP game. If not for the fact that the shit BG happened in the same tier that the PVE went to hell, I would've played at least 1 or 2 toons to max level.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on December 31, 2010, 03:16:06 AM
Most of us came to WAR expecting a PVP game, not a PVE game, so I'm not sure what your point is.
My point is that, after the fact, you had Barnett and other devs admit that they don't enjoy PvP themselves, and weren't really interested in making a PvP/RvR game[citation needed].  So why go get a PvP IP?
Quote
:drillf:

Yeah, getting into an argument with Warhammer fans about GW and their insane hobby is sorta like starting an argument over religiion.

I am sorry.  So very, very sorry.  :cry2:

You don't know why you are wrong but you're somehow trying to write off the arguments against you as 'fanboys'. I tried to correct your wild speculation with actual facts based on professional experience and somehow I'm the one making an emotional argument?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 31, 2010, 04:47:34 AM
Quote
:drillf:

Yeah, getting into an argument with Warhammer fans about GW and their insane hobby is sorta like starting an argument over religiion.

I am sorry.  So very, very sorry.  :cry2:

I'm still laughing over the "Steven Erickson's Malazan series" comment, really, there's no need to apologise.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratama on January 03, 2011, 02:20:13 AM
Because regardless of what they enjoyed or whatever, they made a decent PVP game. If not for the fact that the shit BG happened in the same tier that the PVE went to hell, I would've played at least 1 or 2 toons to max level.
Well, yeah, T1 was an awesome PvP esperience, because few of the classes had game-ruining CC yet.  T2 and higher, at launch (dunno about now), WHO was a terrible PvP game (well, most of T2 was ok, unless the other side was made up of nothing but BWs, IBs, and RPs.  

Too much CC, melee healing non-viable (in T4), OP classes (mostly the DPS clothies, iirc), RvR/PvP zone mechanics a mess, crappy scenarios, etc (not counting purely technical issues, just game mechanics).

In other words, an ok PvP game, until their PvE-based class designs started to kill it at higher levels, and their shitty RvR/zones finished it off in T4.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on January 03, 2011, 08:11:31 AM
Crowd control is much more reasonable now.  I had fun in most engagement when I went back for a month or so.  Finding good skirmishes got hard at times though, and I got tired of following a zerg around.  I'm not sure how the latest changes have affected that.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Wershlak on January 17, 2011, 07:03:43 PM
Crowd control is much more reasonable now.  I had fun in most engagement when I went back for a month or so.  Finding good skirmishes got hard at times though, and I got tired of following a zerg around.  I'm not sure how the latest changes have affected that.

I had fun when I resubbed a few months back until I got to tier 4 and felt like I had no chance against the geared/max rvr level folks and quit.

I had the urge for some fun pvp today and resubbed for an hour. The new changes completely destroyed t2-t3 pvp it seems. I was in the scenario queue for an hour and was running around the rvr lakes with a group and didn't see a single enemy player. I didn't get to use a single ability in the entire time i was logged in. I guess war isn't everywhere anymore...

Apparently everyone does pve till 40 so they can spend months getting their nuts kicked in by rvr level 100 people now. Sounds fun!

I would highly discourage anyone from giving it a shot now.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratama on January 17, 2011, 07:27:07 PM
The free trial's alright, if you have a few friends to do scenarios with.

What server were you on, Wershlak?  I've heard Badlands is the only reasonably populated server.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: FatuousTwat on January 18, 2011, 05:37:53 AM
So, why isn't this F2P yet?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on January 18, 2011, 06:58:53 AM
So, why isn't this F2P yet?

I think they already missed that window.  It should have happened about 6-9 months ago when they still had anyone at all playing it. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Wershlak on January 18, 2011, 02:02:08 PM
The free trial's alright, if you have a few friends to do scenarios with.

What server were you on, Wershlak?  I've heard Badlands is the only reasonably populated server.

I forget which server I logged into. I'm sure it wasn't badlands as I have all my destruction characters there. Are the Scenarios cross server in WAR? I can't remember.

F2P wouldn't help here. The design changes seem to have killed everything that was fun about the first 30+ levels. F2P games are usually fun initially and then shallow later unless you buy addons. Here, they've designed all the  fun out of the game until you are max level and have grinded renown long enough to compete. Once you get to rr60 or so I bet it's probably still a fun game... For a week, till you get bored.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratama on January 18, 2011, 09:44:03 PM
Lure a few thousand more players back, then  try to get a few hundred $$$ each from said weekend warriors for RvR ranks and items.  That + one last good session of massive overbilling, then the plug-pulling ceremony on PPV.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on January 18, 2011, 10:57:51 PM
So, why isn't this F2P yet?

I've wondered if there is a contractual thing between EA and Games Workshop that might prevent it, or if EA is using WAR as some sort of MMO test bed to see how long sub players hold on.

But yeah, I've wondered the same thing. I'm surprised it is still alive.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Merusk on January 30, 2011, 09:02:14 AM
So, why isn't this F2P yet?

I've wondered if there is a contractual thing between EA and Games Workshop that might prevent it, or if EA is using WAR as some sort of MMO test bed to see how long sub players hold on.

But yeah, I've wondered the same thing. I'm surprised it is still alive.


I'd wager that GW won't let them because it would dilute the brand or set a precedent for not charging for things or some such silly logic.

I DID see an ad somewhere the other day for an "Endless Trial"   Here's their faq on it: http://www.warhammeronline.com/faq/?section=11#ans11_2

So unlimited time, no auctions or mail, only allowed on certain servers and can't go past R1.  Not quite F2p, but doesn't seem too bad a deal if you just want to scratch that itch or check it out.  R1 seemed more fun to me in beta anyway.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on January 30, 2011, 10:23:47 AM
I doubt that there's any pressure from GW to keep the game sub-based. God knows there have been enough shitty video games based on GW IP in the past that they can't possibly care about brand dilution in that way. More likely EA are paying a fortune in licensing fees and they don't believe that rejigging it for f2p would stop the haemorrhaging. Additionally, an advantage of a sub-based business model is that you can pretty accurately chart your future income once you have some historical data to work with.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 01, 2011, 03:43:06 AM
Additionally, an advantage of a sub-based business model is that you can pretty accurately chart your future income once you have some historical data to work with.

 :grin:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tannhauser on February 01, 2011, 05:27:07 AM
Nowhere in a Venn diagram does this game, fun and profit converge.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on February 03, 2011, 05:30:01 AM
Andy has gone.

http://twitter.com/andybelford/status/32578680756637696

Quote
Thanks to the WAR and DAOC communities for the last 2+ years. Thank to Mythic for all of the amazing opportunities. I'll forever be grateful


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on February 03, 2011, 05:33:43 AM
A new European CM has joined and I suspect that I know who it is. If I'm right then it's one of my former GOA colleagues. The introduction is supposed to happen next week.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on February 03, 2011, 05:20:37 PM
More server closures (source (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1490))

NA:
Iron Rock
Volkmar

EU:
Carroburg

edit:
This brings the live server counts to 2 NA, 4EU.



Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Cadaverine on February 03, 2011, 05:23:44 PM
That leaves just two servers for the US now, doesn't it?

Edit:  Looks like Gorfang, and Badlands.  Isn't it about time someone took this game out back, and put it out of it's misery?


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on February 03, 2011, 05:31:19 PM
That leaves just two servers for the US now, doesn't it?

Edit:  Yup, Gorfang for the free server, and Badlands for the paid folk.  Isn't it about time someone took this game out back, and put it out of it's misery?

The EU ones are needed for the languages only (English free/paid, French, German). It's an amazing bleed-off of the population from a game that started at ~80 servers down to half a dozen in a little over two years.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: 01101010 on February 03, 2011, 06:25:33 PM
Oddly enough, Gorefang had my warrior priest and dorf and the Badlands had my Chaos and Greenskin.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tannhauser on February 03, 2011, 07:46:14 PM
They never had a clever guy come in and stop the bleeding. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on February 03, 2011, 08:40:56 PM
Has anyone ever had that much server attrition? I know EQ2 had a bunch of servers but I don't think it was anything close to 80 and they're certainly not down to two NA servers.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ratman_tf on February 07, 2011, 03:56:26 AM
SWG had some pretty drastic server closures, but I don't know the numbers or timeframes.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on February 07, 2011, 08:14:21 AM
SWG initially cut about half their servers.  I'm not sure of the current state of things.  I don't think anyone has come close to matching WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: IainC on February 07, 2011, 08:20:45 AM
The new EU CM (http://www.warherald.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1493) is who I thought it was. Former German CM for DAoC and WAR and later the head of the WAR CM team in Europe after David Petit quit.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Redgiant on February 09, 2011, 04:49:50 PM

    "...At that point, players will need to transfer their characters to Gorfang (via a free transfer) or another server (via a paid transfer) to access them.  ..."

and by "another server" we mean "Badlands".


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Pringles on February 13, 2011, 05:40:56 AM
Nice.

Last time I played, I wound up quitting due to a problem with armor I had acquired, the shield was backwards.  I lost all will to play when I spent like weeks to get an item and it was backwards and no fix was in sight.

I mean I submitted reports for months.  How hard it is to flip a 3d model 180 degrees?  I imagine it can't be that difficult.  I just checked the forums and there was a post recently that its still backwards.

I think its been like that since the item was added which was like a year ago.  I swear they can't fix anything.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on February 13, 2011, 09:03:52 AM
With the constant hacking away at the dev numbers on WAR, this isn't a surprise.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Azazel on February 21, 2011, 12:57:19 AM
Just read up on this thread. The Ratama period was  :why_so_serious:

Anyone want to buy a WAR CE? Unopened? It's a real collector's edition...  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tannhauser on February 21, 2011, 05:26:16 AM
I wonder what Rift pvp will do to the population of pvp die-hards on WAR.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on February 21, 2011, 10:27:32 AM
I wonder what Rift pvp will do to the population of pvp die-hards on WAR.

All of my DAOC friends that are still playing WAR have no interest in Rifts.  Right or wrong, they see it as another PvE WoW clone.  I think Aion was the game that was the biggest WAR killer.  GW2 may steal the rest of them. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: fuser on February 23, 2011, 03:10:35 PM
Rift launches tomorrow and the unsubscribe button from Warhammer disappears on the mythic account management page.

Quote from: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/232/index/6173252/1
Karnus  Created about 3 hours ago
I log into account settings and my account which was previously cancelled to avoid rebilling now says Active with no Cancel button and no Start - End date showing. ...little help please.

Quote from: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/232/index/6173252/2
Kai Schober (bioware)  Created about 2 hours ago
I have no information about any changes like that.
Let me check and come back on this.

Quote from: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/232/index/6173252/2
Kai Schober (bioware)  Created about 1 hour ago
The maintenance today was just a simple hardware issue - a memory module needed to be replaced - so this can't be the reason.
Also, the reports started after the general maintenance yesterday.

Comedy gold timing!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on February 23, 2011, 03:58:39 PM
 :ye_gods: :ye_gods:

I'm glad I uninstalled this shit long ago. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tannhauser on February 23, 2011, 04:10:38 PM
Well that's one way to have a lifetime sub!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on February 23, 2011, 06:15:19 PM
Well, it's Mythic, so it might be ten or twenty lifetime subs...


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: raydeen on February 23, 2011, 06:59:25 PM
Well, it's Mythic, so it might be ten or twenty lifetime subs...

I think I'd rather have the electric chair please than a lifetime sentence...er...sub.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Azazel on February 24, 2011, 03:36:51 AM
Rift launches tomorrow and the unsubscribe button from Warhammer disappears on the mythic account management page.

Heh. I'm sure these guys can be trusted. KOTOR Online? No thanks!


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soukyan on February 24, 2011, 08:03:35 PM
I wonder what Rift pvp will do to the population of pvp die-hards on WAR.

All of my DAOC friends that are still playing WAR have no interest in Rifts.  Right or wrong, they see it as another PvE WoW clone.  I think Aion was the game that was the biggest WAR killer.  GW2 may steal the rest of them. 

We shall see. My WAR guild just started playing RIFT for the head start today. We're hardcore PvP. Did nothing but RvR in WAR. Have multiple RR90+ in the guild. In any case, if it proves to be popular enough with everyone and the PvP stays exciting as it has been, then WAR will lose our guild. If not, we will be back to playing WAR until GW2 comes out and then we'll probably see how that goes.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on March 01, 2011, 07:43:51 AM
James gone too.

http://twitter.com/JamesMythic

Rift News & Discussion - Introducing Our New Assistant Community Manager (http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?98407-Introducing-Our-New-Assistant-Community-Manager&p=1406825&posted=1#post1406825)


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on March 01, 2011, 08:20:56 PM
http://twitter.com/JamesMythic

Well, that was a fantastic use of an official Twitter account.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on March 04, 2011, 03:25:02 PM
February Producer's Letter (http://warherald.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1521)

Quote
Just so you know, we have a full year of Warhammer Online planned out, from events to patches, including features and fun stuff.  Along with that plan, we are looking at a number of other hypothetical things that we’d love to work on; we’ll be getting feedback on these as we move forward through the year as well.  Plus, finally, we’ll continue to look at the topics and trends that concern you, adding tweaks, changes, of fixes as we go.
:why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Nebu on March 04, 2011, 03:52:29 PM
Remove stealth.  Remove CC.  Remove having to level to 40 before you can play the game. Balance classes. Flatten the RR vs power curve. 

I'd go back if those things happened.  I enjoyed my shaman and squig herder.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on March 04, 2011, 03:58:56 PM
And make it F2P.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Lantyssa on March 04, 2011, 04:13:32 PM
Remove stealth.  Remove CC.  Remove having to level to 40 before you can play the game. Balance classes. Flatten the RR vs power curve. 
The CC is about right now.  Most classes felt more balanced.

The level 40 thing is more of a problem, because now you have to be level 40 and renown rank 100.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Soukyan on March 31, 2011, 10:23:01 PM
Remove stealth.  Remove CC.  Remove having to level to 40 before you can play the game. Balance classes. Flatten the RR vs power curve. 
The CC is about right now.  Most classes felt more balanced.

The level 40 thing is more of a problem, because now you have to be level 40 and renown rank 100.

This

RR100 gear is crazy powerful. If you aren't RR90+, you're in for a long ride.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Arthur_Parker on December 17, 2011, 02:54:23 PM
Apparently they are down to 1 server in the US and 1, maybe 2 in the EU.

Upcoming Free Server Transfers (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1673)
Quote
As part of our ongoing efforts to maintain an active, competitive, and engaging experience in WAR we have decided to open free transfers for players to specific servers. WAR, more than many games, only gets better with more people. These transfers will enable players to experience more action during all hours whether fighting in scenarios or Open RvR.

To make this process easier we have provided specific details concerning these new transfer options below, please read and follow any instructions carefully. We are currently targeting next week to enable the transfers, for now please use this time to organize yourself and your friends to ensure a smooth transition to your new home.

US from the original thread post I dug out the dates when they tombstoned the last ones, Dark Crag - 11/24/2009, Phoenix Throne  - 11/24/2009, Darklands - 19/08/2009, Ironclaw - 19/08/2009, Gorfang - 12/09/2011, Iron Rock - 02/03/2011, Volkmar - 02/03/2011, Ironfist - 07/13/2009, Vortex - 07/13/2009, Monolith - 07/13/2009, Magnus - 07/13/2009, Skull Throne - 07/13/2009, Ostermark - 03/31/2009, Praag - 08/07/2009.

Which leaves Badlands as the sole US server, I can't be arsed checking the EU.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Tannhauser on December 17, 2011, 06:13:38 PM
How can they stay open with one server?  What is that, 2,500 average pop?  So sad, I really wanted this game to be good.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Modern Angel on December 18, 2011, 08:17:58 AM
The way this game out still makes me angry. It may be the last video game related thing that makes me legit pissed off.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: KallDrexx on December 18, 2011, 09:51:32 AM
Doesn't DAOC still have 2 servers open  :awesome_for_real:? They did the last time they showed player population stats on the herald lol


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: HaemishM on December 18, 2011, 03:05:18 PM
Why not? DAOC still has a better game.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 20, 2011, 04:15:58 PM
They could have just redone DAOC with better graphics and it would have made a lot of people much happier.  This may be a bigger fuck up of a game than Tabula Rasa.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: luckton on December 20, 2011, 04:17:33 PM
They could have just redone DAOC with better graphics and it would have made a lot of people much happier.  This may be a bigger fuck up of a game than Tabula Rasa.

At least TR had the sense to put a gun to itself and pull the trigger.  This game is now for masochists only.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on December 21, 2011, 07:21:10 AM
I've wondered if the launch of SWOR puts WAR onto a countdown timer to shutdown.

I'm amazed it lasted this long.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 21, 2011, 07:40:12 AM
I can't imagine that it takes much for them to keep it kicking along at this point.  There have to be some poor saps that are still paying for it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: luckton on December 21, 2011, 08:05:39 AM
Well, as was said, DAoC is still kickin' it.  I would think that it would be put to rest far sooner than WAR, especially since WAR's working on that BG-only game that'll tie into it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: ghost on December 21, 2011, 11:47:38 AM
I guess my point is that there's got to be a cut off point where the amount of maintenance money that they put into the game outstrips the revenue, but I can't imagine that the overhead is anything at all for either game now, considering the paltry updates (last updates on the news feed from 2010?).  Right now it's just free money for EA whenever idiots spend money on this stuff. 


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Ingmar on December 29, 2011, 03:53:57 PM
One wonders if there is any stipulation in their contract with GW that means they have to keep it going for X amount of time, etc., also.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: tazelbain on December 29, 2011, 04:38:08 PM
I think it means that they made enough on box sales that there is no write-off for killing it.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: Johny Cee on December 29, 2011, 04:56:25 PM
I guess my point is that there's got to be a cut off point where the amount of maintenance money that they put into the game outstrips the revenue, but I can't imagine that the overhead is anything at all for either game now, considering the paltry updates (last updates on the news feed from 2010?).  Right now it's just free money for EA whenever idiots spend money on this stuff. 

It depends.

In general, software development costs need to be capitalized and then amortized over a period of time equal to the estimated useful life of the software.  Licensing costs must also be capitalized and amortized over a period of time.  Without researching it or working in the industry, I'm not sure what typical useful lives are for either an MMO or the associated licensing costs...  could be 3 years (typical for purchased software), or it could be 15 years (which is typical for most kinds of "intangible" asset).

Essentially, with big failures, companies may want to shut down because you can then abandon the projects and write off the entire capitalized amount at the time of abandonment, which nets you a tax benefit equal to your marginal rate x total costs written off.  If a company is going to have loss years anyway, they may just leave it open if the service is generating a positive cash flow.


So, a giant fucking failure would probably be something you want to get rid of right away through a sale or abandonment, even if it is generating positive cash flow, to speed up the associated tax write offs... but only if those tax write offs net you tax benefits.


On the other side, financial accounting (so US GAAP as opposed to US Tax).  Maybe the company wants to write off as much of their costs in the current year, so that they aren't carrying a loser on the books for the next two years.  Maybe the company doesn't want to hit their financial earnings this year, and is okay with taking smaller decreases in earnings over the next couple of years.


Title: Re: Warhammer Online Server Dead Pool
Post by: UnSub on January 10, 2012, 08:15:07 PM
Apparently only 2 NA / EU servers left.  (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/10/and-then-there-were-two-warhammer-online-merges-servers-once-mo/) I may just be repeating AP's info though.