SWTOR

[Ice Cream Emperor]

For feedback, I think most people with a bit of sanity can tell whether or not something is real or just whinging. It seems so easy to me. Yes, the official forums are there, but check the unofficial ones. Blogs. And all the rest. It's not rocket science and with the incomes generated by major games today, there's no excuse not to pay someone with a brain to do it.

I'm of the opinion that most negative feedback on the internet borders on worthless, particularly consumer reviews.  Who's most likely to write a review, someone who understood the realistic limits and achievable results of a product before they bought it or someone who didn't?  So, almost by definition reviews are written by people who did not understand the product they were purchasing.  

By the definition you just arbitrarily invented, yes. Interesting use of that phrase, there. Even better your definition pretty much amounts to 'l2play, n00bs', since it simply posits that anyone who doesn't like something clearly just doesn't understand it.

In any case, though, I am pretty sure Numtini was talking about people internal to the company gathering feedback on their game/product, and the entire point of the bit you quoted was that because they are internal to the company and do in fact understand their own product, it is fairly easy for them to examine any given piece of feedback and extract whatever value is there, based on that understanding.

But even aside from that, from the point of view of the company who makes the product, a reviewer failing to understand what their product is about, or how it should be used, or what its conceivable limits are... is in fact extremely valuable information that should be incorporated into future marketing/development of the product. If everybody who reviews your toothbrush thinks it's a comb, then you should probably figure out why that might be and do something to address it.

[Lantyssa]

clown-suit stuff

Uh, was that posted somewhere outside the beta boards by a dev?  Kinda NDA-breaking there if not.

(And it's not like I don't have an opinion on this, what with my appearance tab crusades...)

[koro]

I don't know what part of the forums it was posted in.

[Sky]

I GET TO BE BOBA FETT? SOLD.

Boba Fett with a functioning missile pack (damn you toy safety!), flamethrower, missile launching jawa buddy AND voiced by goddamned Wolverine?

Uh....yeah. I mean I was going for BH before all that info came out, but sheesh.

Match to chest was necessary and needs to go back in. And hopefully they come to their senses with appearance tabs at some point. Best case scenario is to have both available, really.

[Nevermore]

I GET TO BE BOBA FETT? SOLD.

Boba Fett with a functioning missile pack (damn you toy safety!), flamethrower, missile launching jawa buddy AND voiced by goddamned Wolverine?

Uh....yeah. I mean I was going for BH before all that info came out, but sheesh.

Lies! You're only doing it because you can respec to any role! 

[Evildrider]

I GET TO BE BOBA FETT? SOLD.

Boba Fett with a functioning missile pack (damn you toy safety!), flamethrower, missile launching jawa buddy AND voiced by goddamned Wolverine?

Uh....yeah. I mean I was going for BH before all that info came out, but sheesh.

Lies! You're only doing it because you can respec to any role! 

Obviously, it's because people can't make a choice and live with it.   

[Sand]

They never said a hybrid healer/dps would be as good a healer as a pure healer or as good a dps as a pure dps.  What they said was that if you focus on a function you will be as good at that function as anyone else who focused on that function.

Why you would play one DPS style over another comes to personal preference and preferred play style because DPS types then are broken down by style.

For the pure DPS classes, no other class fills their function/playstyle.
Sentinel/Marauder is melee AOE DPS.
Gunslinger/Sniper is ranged burst dps.

For the hybrids there is overlap on primary function but they have variety in secondary functions for example Scoundrel/Operative and Shadow/Assassin are melee stealth DPS but S/O can be healers and S/A can be tanks.

Etc...

 I've read the same article you're quoting.  I understand the whole 'playstyle' thing, but numbers are numbers, and they did in fact say that there is no 'hybrid-tax'.  A sniper calling down an orbital death star strike will be just as effective as my Jedi Sage's Crane Kick to the throat, if said Crane Kick to the throat was my Sage's DPS tree ending ability.

So if I'm some big-shot raid leader with an elite but small crew, why would I have my crew waste time on a pure DPS, when they could role a hybrid and fill in roles on nights when our main person may be off?

Your concern reminds me of original WoW before the expansions.
We had people in our guild claim "I will be a feral spec druid and then I can tank and heal!"
They couldnt. They couldnt do either worth a crap.
Im sure the exact same thing will play out here. Pure DPS, Tank, or whatever will always beat the hybrid when acting within their assigned roles.

Edit- Nevermind beaten by Nevermore.

[ajax34i]

This thread is moving too fast, so out of curiosity I'll just ask a question rather than continue an argument from 2 pages ago:

Is there a differentiation between kinds of DPS?  For example, can you get good AoE DPS from a hybrid (and by "good" I mean top-the-meters)?  Cause there's DPS and there's DPS, and while your healer/tank soloing ability won't be gimped, if the raid needs AoE they'll have to take a "pure" along.  Is this the case in SWTOR?

Also, not related, but from the specificity of details being discussed here it looks as if the NDA has been lifted, but I must have missed the post where that was announced (if it was).  Could someone modify the title of the thread to indicate NDA status, please?

[Furiously]

Am I the only one that wonders why all these Bloodworth announcements are being made? And why they are not repeats of announcements already posted?

[Evildrider]

This thread is moving too fast, so out of curiosity I'll just ask a question rather than continue an argument from 2 pages ago:

Is there a differentiation between kinds of DPS?  For example, can you get good AoE DPS from a hybrid (and by "good" I mean top-the-meters)?  Cause there's DPS and there's DPS, and while your healer/tank soloing ability won't be gimped, if the raid needs AoE they'll have to take a "pure" along.  Is this the case in SWTOR?

Also, not related, but from the specificity of details being discussed here it looks as if the NDA has been lifted, but I must have missed the post where that was announced (if it was).  Could someone modify the title of the thread to indicate NDA status, please?

Bioware is trying their hardest to make all the classes as equal as possible.  So say a Pure DPS spec like Sniper will do the same damage as a Sith Juggernaut if he us spec'd for DPS.  The differences come in how they do their damage and what other utilities they can bring.

All the healers and tanks are supposed to be on par as well. 

However if you do a hybrid spec, meaning you only go halfway up the dps tree and halfway up a tank tree, you will not be optimal and shouldn't expect to be as good as someone that has spec'd fully in one area.

Also the NDA is still going, except for some websites who are able to talk about things up to level 20 I think.  The NDA probably won't go away for at least a month, if at all, before launch. 

[DraconianOne]

I GET TO BE BOBA FETT? SOLD.

Boba Fett with a functioning missile pack (damn you toy safety!), flamethrower, missile launching jawa buddy AND voiced by goddamned Wolverine?

Uh....yeah. I mean I was going for BH before all that info came out, but sheesh.

Joke's on you, squidface - you don't get to be Boba Fett at all. He used a carbine and from what it looks like, only available weapon to BH in SWTOR is pistols! That's stepping straight into Jango Fett prequel territory

I'm serious when I say that this is the main thing that puts me off wanting to play a BH. Give me my damned blaster rifle you bastards!


 

[Fordel]

Blaster Rifles are for real Troopers, not wannabees!

[Murgos]

By the definition you just arbitrarily invented, yes. Interesting use of that phrase, there. Even better your definition pretty much amounts to 'l2play, n00bs', since it simply posits that anyone who doesn't like something clearly just doesn't understand it.

I was pretty clear in the next section of what I wrote on how to get value out of a consumer review.  Also, I didn't arbitrarily discount peoples opinion on as broad a subject as like/don't like, I very specifically limited it to writing product reviews.  I didn't even 'arbitrarily invent' the definition, product expectation vs satisfaction = complaints is a common yardstick in Marketing.  You even use it as part of your point in your last paragraph.

As for Numtini's point, so what?  I wasn't rebutting him, I was adding my own observation on the difficulty of getting value from consumer reviews from the point of view of a consumer.  Last time I checked the internet rule book I was still allowed to make a conversational aside.

[Paelos]

I'm not against flexibiltiy as much as I am against having half the class options taken away.  I have no problems with respecing within your AC.  Like I said if I play a Bounty Hunter and I choose Powertech.  I want it to mean something.

I'm going to pick at this, only because of your unintentional choice of words. Part of the reason that Cataclysm in WoW turned into a clusterfuck was because the developers insisted on making choices more meaningful. The only problem is that meaningful in an MMOG is interchangable with punishing. Making choices meaningful usually means taking away options from the players, and they readily recognize how simple it would be to add them. Players these days are less inclined to put up with "meaningful" if it just means more needless grind with no new inputs.

Morality choices, unless they dramatically affect outcomes of the story, will not suffice in making people want to play through again.

[Reg]

I'm perfectly prepared to play all 8 classes to see all 8 storylines but I have no interest in repeating a storyline just to pick a different AC.  I can handle a long involved quest to change my AC the first time but having done that I expect to be able to change it back and forth any time I like.

[Sky]

He used a carbine and from what it looks like, only available weapon to BH in SWTOR is pistols!

Fair enough. And I agree, it's probably the lamest thing this side of all the dual sabers (which are actually pretty cool in action). The Bounty Hunter uses all available prototype tech to achieve his mission....unless it's a rifle. One reasoning I heard was that it would theoretically cut ninja looting, but that was before items for companions went in. But they should've given the IA the pistols.

[Lantyssa]

Maybe they should just let the player decide what weapon they want to use...

[Mrbloodworth]

That would make it to much like SWG.

[luckton]

Make peace with your gods, and prepare yourselves.  We march onward to a galaxy far, far away soon*!

*at least sooner than what we had previously thought, perhaps

http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20111102

Last month we expanded our Pre-Launch Guild Program with the implementation of Phase 2: Alignment, where guilds could designate other guilds as allies or adversaries. Now, as Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ moves ever-closer to launch, we are excited to announce that we have initiated the first part of Phase 3: Deployment!

And Bat Country is listed as READY! 

[Sky]

If that goes smooth with the adversaries, it could be the best guild launch in BC history :)

Looks like Kathol and Slappity are also ready, who is the Flameborn? Only 1 pre-order :(

[Mrbloodworth]

I assume thats not early access for non-guilded pre-orders?

[luckton]

I assume thats not early access for non-guilded pre-orders?

No, it is not.  Join us!

[luckton]

Even more news: confirmation of server types:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=10434480#edit10434480

There will be four different server types in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Here’s how they work generally, and details on how we’re dealing with roleplaying (RP) servers:

PvE (Player vs Environment) – Players will have to manually flag themselves if they wish to engage in PvP outside of designated Warzones and Open World PvP areas.

PvP (Player vs Player) – Players are automatically flagged for PvP outside of the designated ‘safe’ areas (such as Origin Worlds, Capital Worlds, and the Republic/Imperial Fleets; see below for more info).

RP-PvE – Players are encouraged to roleplay and act ‘in-character’ while playing on an RP-PvE server. Players must manually flag themselves if they wish to engage in PvP outside of designated Warzones and Open World PvP areas.

RP-PvP – Players are encouraged to roleplay and act ‘in-character’ while playing on an RP-PvP server. Players are automatically flagged for PvP outside of the designated ‘safe’ areas (such as Origin Worlds, Capital Worlds, and the Republic/Imperial Fleets; see below for more info).

The pre-launch Guild Headquarters currently allows you to select between three different server types for your guild: PvE, PvP, and RP, which will determine your server placement during Phase 3: Deployment. During Deployment, we will be placing all eligible guilds that select ‘RP’ onto RP-PvE servers by default. If a guild wishes to exist on an RP-PvP server, they will need to create their guild manually on a new server once they reach their Capital World (Dromund Kaas or Coruscant) and create their guild.

The decision to make RP-PvP servers an option for players was made recently, which is why the choice was not available in the Guild Headquarters to start with. We apologize for any inconvenience this causes, but we hope you are as excited as we are to be able to choose this option for your guild in the game at launch.

PvP server rulesets

We also wanted to expand on what the PvP server ruleset means in The Old Republic. The obvious overarching rule is that in general, if you see a player of the opposite faction, you may immediately engage them in combat.

The exception to this rule is sanctuaries, which are large areas where PvP may not take place, regardless of whether you are flagged or unflagged for PvP. Examples of this are the Origin Worlds (Tython, Ord Mantell, Hutta, and Korriban), the Capital Worlds for both sides (Dromund Kaas and Coruscant), and the Republic/Imperial Fleets.

Hopefully this post helps inform your decision as to which server type you’d like to play on at launch. If you haven’t already, create a guild on the Guild Headquarters so that you can get placed on a server before the game launches!

So, are we still on for RP-PvE?

[Sand]

RP? If we use ventrilo or teamspeak for raids do I have to talk in character (my Sith voice) on it? 

[luckton]

RP? If we use ventrilo or teamspeak for raids do I have to talk in character (my Sith voice) on it? 

YES  ಠ_ಠ

[caladein]

I think when you folks went in on "RP" everyone assumed it meant "RP-PvE".

Since they finally confirmed RP-PvP that might make things interesting but I'm pretty sure my guild's sticking with good ol' normal PvP (especially when there's no cross-faction communication, FOR GOOD REASONS!).

[Furiously]

RP? If we use ventrilo or teamspeak for raids do I have to talk in character (my Sith voice) on it? 

YES  ಠ_ಠ

That's, "Yes, my master."

[Sky]

So, are we still on for RP-PvE?

Yes.

RP? If we use ventrilo or teamspeak for raids do I have to talk in character (my Sith voice) on it? 

If you choose to, sure. But lolz BC raiding.

[Kirth]

If that goes smooth with the adversaries, it could be the best guild launch in BC history :)

Looks like Kathol and Slappity are also ready, who is the Flameborn? Only 1 pre-order :(

My guild of people I work with, i think two of us have pre ordered but perhaps the other guy hasn't entered a code. The other two haven't pre ordered or haven't entered the code. I'll check.

[Evildrider]

I'm perfectly prepared to play all 8 classes to see all 8 storylines but I have no interest in repeating a storyline just to pick a different AC.  I can handle a long involved quest to change my AC the first time but having done that I expect to be able to change it back and forth any time I like.

Then all of you should go petition Bioware to remove advanced classes then.  Because obviously there's no reason to have them.   

[Paelos]

Right, because we want choices to be MEANINGFUL.

That's never gone south anywhere else.

[Evildrider]

Right, because we want choices to be MEANINGFUL.

That's never gone south anywhere else.

Yep exactly, I mean if I roll a rogue in WoW and I don't like it, they should let me respec into a warrior if I wanted.

[Paelos]

So you think a Vanguard or a Commando choice makes them some wholly different creature? I mean there's got to me a huge gap between a powertech and a mercenary. I know that the differentce between a Guardian and a Sentinal Jedi has be MASSIVE!

Give me a break.

[Lantyssa]

Yep exactly, I mean if I roll a rogue in WoW and I don't like it, they should let me respec into a warrior if I wanted.

Actually, yes...

Although this is really akin to letting a Druid switch between Balance, Feral, and Healing.  I'll also point out that EQ2 had this system at launch and it was one of the first things to change, which was a very popular decision.

[Evildrider]

So you think a Vanguard or a Commando choice makes them some wholly different creature? I mean there's got to me a huge gap between a powertech and a mercenary. I know that the differentce between a Guardian and a Sentinal Jedi has be MASSIVE!

Give me a break.

You do realize they are called Advanced CLASSES for a reason.  You can't learn the skills of a commando as a vanguard and vice versa.  The only thing they share are some base Trooper abilites.  You aren't going to get a heal or a tanking ability as a base ability.  Those don't come til you pick your AC.  So if you respec from Vanguard to Commando you are going to lose all your Vanguard abilities.