SWTOR

[Ingmar]

I don't know who they're trying to get, but it *seems* like it is me.

[Nebu]

I'm with Paelos and Ingmar.  I'm excited about a story-driven MMO.  I'm just saying, that we're the minority.  Perhaps it's a larger minority than I would have imagined. 

[Lucas]

Well, count me in as well. Mostly because, at least, I can *pretend* it's a "living" world although enclosed in a "theme park", hopefully with interesting stories.  For a real, old-school MMO experience (but with a more modern approach") as in "world feel" I'll wait for ArcheAge.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I don't think anyone is against story driven mmo's, even wow players want story but again you can argue wow has story driven content in the racial starting zones. its not really trolling to say every mmo every has wanted story driven content start to finish but t never, ever lasts.

and for clarity, having a few class specific quests late in levels that continue the story line is not story driven,it's just more of the same

[Surlyboi]

You're still trolling, but it's cool. We know the drill.

[eldaec]

I find it interesting that game developers still sell their games using the "story_driven_content" mantra.  While that's fine and good for single player games, I don't think it's really what most MMO gamers want. 

I'm just glad someone is trying to vary WoW design even slightly.

I don't want to play WoW, never mind a WoW retread.

[Lakov_Sanite]

You're still trolling, but it's cool. We know the drill.

cause i was so wrong about rift

[Nebu]

cause i was so wrong about rift

How about a link?  I'd like to read these detailed predictions. 

[Sjofn]

The thing with "KIDS TODAY don't care about story" is ... I don't think that's actually true. For example, WoW's story is a giant pile of bullshit and Metzen self-insert fanfic, I can hardly blame people for deciding "fuck the story, just tell me who to stab." And even THEN, people do give a shit about the story. Even in my most drooliest of PUGs, most seem aware of the storyline of what's going on, because Blizzard's gotten a lot better at showing their sorry excuse for a story rather than telling. Which is good, it's just completely wasted on crap, which is a shame.

People just don't want to sit an read a wall of text TELLING them what the story is. They want to DO the story. And in the case of SWTOR, I suspect the fact you're talking with an NPC instead of being talked at will help a great deal in the "downtime" parts of getting and turning in quests.

[Evildrider]

Like Bioware said they are putting the RPG back in MMORPG.  That's the main draw for me.  I could care less about WoW lore and even when I tried to get into it, it was just forgettable.  If the IP is something I like, the more draw it has to me.

I like that you have choices and your choices have consequences.  I also like that the class stories vary, the fact that I can play a Republic character than a Sith character and have no cross over quests is also pretty awesome.

[Nebu]

The thing with "KIDS TODAY don't care about story" is ... I don't think that's actually true.

While I'd love to agree with you, I teach large numbers of 18-26 year olds daily.  Getting them to pay attention to anything for more than 15 mins in a row requires nothing short of cat juggling.  I'll bet that were a "Skip dialogue" button to be included with the release of the game, that you could very accurately track the importance of story to most players.  I bet the button would get worn out by more people than any of us would ever guess.

I'm done with my "Grumpy old man rant".  Sorry about that.

 

[Reg]

Well to me it seems obvious that they've put in story and voice overs for people that actually like story and voice overs. You however contend that they've put in story and voice overs for people who despise story and voice overs and will fast forward through it all just to get to the crappy end game.  Why they would do this you don't say. A deep seated need to provide schadenfreude to bitter MMO players who have burned out on every other game they've played? It could be I suppose... Why people who hate story and voice overs would even buy the game is also a mystery. Maybe they'll do it so they can be miserable and then take some satisfaction in being proved right about how awful the game is.

Luckily, as someone who enjoys story and voice overs none of the above affects me at all.

[Paelos]

People just don't want to sit an read a wall of text TELLING them what the story is. They want to DO the story. And in the case of SWTOR, I suspect the fact you're talking with an NPC instead of being talked at will help a great deal in the "downtime" parts of getting and turning in quests.

People like it if they make it worth liking too. Having Metzen's crap read by Jeffrey Irons and Morgan Freeman isn't going to bring it to life.

[luckton]

People just don't want to sit an read a wall of text TELLING them what the story is. They want to DO the story. And in the case of SWTOR, I suspect the fact you're talking with an NPC instead of being talked at will help a great deal in the "downtime" parts of getting and turning in quests.

People like it if they make it worth liking too. Having Metzen's crap read by Jeffrey Irons and Morgan Freeman isn't going to bring it to life.

Having heard many of the voice-overs from the videos and what not, and being able to attribute those voices to other voice-over works, I don't think they were kidding around with the 'we hired professional actors/actresses for this shit' thing.  We're talking about the people that do most of the english anime dubs, popular animated series from the last 20 years and movie works as well.  These guys don't fuck around when it comes to their work.

On a side note, I've just been informed that I 'may' have won a contest relating to TOR...still awaiting confirmation.

[Nevermore]

People like it if they make it worth liking too. Having Metzen's crap read by Jeffrey Irons and Morgan Freeman isn't going to bring it to life.

Yes, in WoW ACTING! gets you that green dragon intro to Hyjal.  

On the other hand, do it right and I'll be all for it.

Edit:

On a side note, I've just been informed that I 'may' have won a contest relating to TOR...still awaiting confirmation.

Was it an email from Ed McMahon? 

[Nebu]

Why people who hate story and voice overs would even buy the game is also a mystery.

I believe they will buy it because it's being marketed to the unwashed masses as WoW in a Star Wars world.  Most of their customers will be significantly less informed about games than most people on these forums.  

With the amount of money being poured into this project, they need to sell it to far more than just BioWare fans.  I barely played KOTOR, so the BioWare brand has little value to me.  I will be purchasing this game based on videos I've watched, word of mouth, and the sheer fact that it's the new MMO on the block.  Even if it sucks, I'll get the box cost worth of time out of it. 

[luckton]

I'm highly interested in this game because it's WoW in space.  No joke...soooooooo tired of the fantasy environment.   GW2 sure looks pretty, but I need a break.  Star Trek failed to fill the hole, EVE is still a silly place, and Jumpgate 2...well...yeah.

So anyways, for me, it's a galaxy far, far away or bust.

[Sjofn]

The thing with "KIDS TODAY don't care about story" is ... I don't think that's actually true.

While I'd love to agree with you, I teach large numbers of 18-26 year olds daily.  Getting them to pay attention to anything for more than 15 mins in a row requires nothing short of cat juggling.  I'll bet that were a "Skip dialogue" button to be included with the release of the game, that you could very accurately track the importance of story to most players.  I bet the button would get worn out by more people than any of us would ever guess.

I'm done with my "Grumpy old man rant".  Sorry about that. 

They watch movies. They finish single player games. They watch TV. No offense, but that they don't pay attention to you isn't really an indication of how they prefer their entertainment. Like I said, I'm pretty sure they'd be fine with story, but the story has to be good and the story can't be told in the "sit there while someone drones at you and/or nails you with a block of text that isn't very interesting and merely fluff for 'kill ten rats.'" They want to play the story. They want to be ACTIVE. Whether it's the act of murdering rats or sassing your quest giver, the key is that it's you being an active participant, rather than a mute drone the quest giver dumps text on.

I mean, the combat has to be good and engaging too, of course, but the story part isn't going to be as wasted as you think.

[Rendakor]

I'm highly interested in this game because it's WoW in space.

This is me pretty much. I'm ambivalent about the story aspect; I like the Bioware games, but HATEHATEHATE unskippable voice acting.

[Morfiend]

I mean, the combat has to be good and engaging too, of course, but the story part isn't going to be as wasted as you think.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of these games now rely on the addiction of the next "ding grats" or shiny piece of gear, and stopping to read the quest dialog just slows down the next fix.

[Paelos]

People don't read quest text because it's never going to be different.

So and so made me mad, go kill him.
So and so stole this, go get it back.
Bear asses make me horny, go get 10 of them.
My wife left me, go murder the guy she left me for.

At the end of the day, every quest is move to here, perform X, return. Go back out, perform Y, return. Eventually even a monkey can figure out the pattern.

[Tannhauser]

Is the pattern for the monkey to rock back and forth?

[Paelos]

Is the pattern for the monkey to rock back and forth?

I've ding-gratzed so many times on that pattern.

[UnSub]

Maybe because they're making the game for Bioware fans who have shown that they like cut scenes and dialogue?

If they were doing that, they could accomplish the same goals by making KOTOR 3 for significantly less money.

I argue that they're after burned out WoW gamers.  Most of which could give two-shits about story and voice acting. 

EA is after the WoW market's money. Which they wouldn't get just by making KOTOR 3.

It will be interesting to see if BioWare players are happy paying $15 a month for a game that, if story-focused, they would have got just for box cost previously.

And according to BioWare's own stats, only about 50% of people who bought Mass Effect (2?) actually finished the game. If the focus is on story, that's a worrying statistic for longer-term player retention.

Unless SWOR's mechanics are super-addictive (not necessarily balanced, but solid enough to make the player want to keep playing). If they are just retreads of WoW's standards, it will be nice and familiar for a lot of players, but it becomes a problem if you've just spent the last 5 years growing tired of the same mechanics.

I don't doubt SWOR's launch potential - 3 million+ on a 'restricted' number of copies (hah!) but I do wonder about its ability to retain players. Huttball isn't going to cut it.

[Evildrider]

Well with the pvp lakes and WAR like objectives now confirmed, I'm definitely not worried about being too bored at endgame.  I'll have PvP, raiding, and the solo content planet.

Also during the panel today they said that they are already at work on future content, so that's at least good news.

[rk47]

Truly the future is bright for the Old Republic. Tell me how it is after a month, yeah? I'll be most likely skip this game in lieu for engaging single player games. Who knows, after those games ran out, I'll hop in.

[apocrypha]

WoW got millions of subs by appealing to a broader range of people than any game before it. Young, old, male, female, hardcore gamers, first time gamers, quest readers and skippers, lore whores and ding gratsers. If EA/Bioware don't realise this and also attempt to cater to a wide range of player types and play styles then they will not be as successful as the vast budget they've poured into TOR indicates they want to be.

I know that seems blindingly obvious, but after watching you lot all piss on each other for a page over which precise subsection of existing gamers they're aiming for I thought it needed restating.

[Ginaz]

it's not a troll and no i am not looking at leaked info.  im not even sure just how far they are even letting beta testers level. what i do know is EVERY game promises story driven content an what's i've hear in developer chats is a lt of doublespeak an hedging on just how much story there is in late level gameplay right now it sounds like you'll have one awesome quest that lasts you maybe a quarter of you level in playtime, then back to grinding.

I would LOVE to be wrong

You are.

[Ginaz]

Maybe because they're making the game for Bioware fans who have shown that they like cut scenes and dialogue?

If they were doing that, they could accomplish the same goals by making KOTOR 3 for significantly less money.

I argue that they're after burned out WoW gamers.  Most of which could give two-shits about story and voice acting. 

EA is after the WoW market's money. Which they wouldn't get just by making KOTOR 3.

It will be interesting to see if BioWare players are happy paying $15 a month for a game that, if story-focused, they would have got just for box cost previously.

And according to BioWare's own stats, only about 50% of people who bought Mass Effect (2?) actually finished the game. If the focus is on story, that's a worrying statistic for longer-term player retention.

Unless SWOR's mechanics are super-addictive (not necessarily balanced, but solid enough to make the player want to keep playing). If they are just retreads of WoW's standards, it will be nice and familiar for a lot of players, but it becomes a problem if you've just spent the last 5 years growing tired of the same mechanics.

I don't doubt SWOR's launch potential - 3 million+ on a 'restricted' number of copies (hah!) but I do wonder about its ability to retain players. Huttball isn't going to cut it.

I wouldn't worry about that.  The percentage of games, across all genres, that players complete is very low.  50% is actually much higher than the average.

[Ginaz]

WoW got millions of subs by appealing to a broader range of people than any game before it. Young, old, male, female, hardcore gamers, first time gamers, quest readers and skippers, lore whores and ding gratsers. If EA/Bioware don't realise this and also attempt to cater to a wide range of player types and play styles then they will not be as successful as the vast budget they've poured into TOR indicates they want to be.

I know that seems blindingly obvious, but after watching you lot all piss on each other for a page over which precise subsection of existing gamers they're aiming for I thought it needed restating.

Thats why I think they went with the graphics they did.  They're the kind of graphics that can run on a wide array of PCs, just like WoW.

If anyone is expecting something drastically different from WoW, they will be disappointed.  If people are looking for WoW with a Star Wars skin, they won't be.  Its really as simple as that.  People are really over thinking WRT this game.

[Mosesandstick]

If Ginaz keeps this up we'll be at 300 before the NDA breaks.

[rk47]

it's not a troll and no i am not looking at leaked info.  im not even sure just how far they are even letting beta testers level. what i do know is EVERY game promises story driven content an what's i've hear in developer chats is a lt of doublespeak an hedging on just how much story there is in late level gameplay right now it sounds like you'll have one awesome quest that lasts you maybe a quarter of you level in playtime, then back to grinding.

I would LOVE to be wrong

You are.

It's so blindingly obvious it's all story driven as long as you stick to the quest-npc sort. I play WoW like that, I took my time, try different zones when bored and it's great to find a few gems of a quest content like Stalvan Mistmantle. Just because people are slaughtering sith troopers for epic blasters doesn't mean the whole story-driven component is gone. It is merely suspended, put on hold till the player is ready to resume.

[Tannhauser]

I hope that's so.  I'd really like to take a break from the story and explore the nooks and crannies of zones. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm wondering if the new, instant-gratification generation will rapidly tire of listening to dialogue and watching cutscenes.  Most MMO gamers don't even bother reading the quest text.  What makes developers think that they'll be patient enough to listen to dialogue?

I really hate that term. It implies we do not all like being gratified when looking for entertainment.

IMO, to answer your question. Its far more entertaining to watch and hear a quest being acted/spoken than it is to read text. I have said this before ( and been laughed out ), but full voice overs are going to become much more common in MMO games as the gap between single player and multi-player closes.

To the detractors back when I said it before. Hows that Fully voiced over MMO landscape looking now?  

[fuser]

Sept 2nd is the start of the beta weekends, looks like a lot more people are going to be in soon.