SWTOR

[Ingmar]

snip images

And those were the only two healing 'spells' in the game, with the latter replacing the former. Really it was just one healing spell you could put an extra point into for an upgrade. One healing spell does not "a healer" make. Bastila had it and it was handy, but her main function was still asswhooping.

Well sure, because the game dropped you a million healing potions (those are totally sci-fi man) and was so easy you didn't need to heal much.  Bastila wasn't a Consular anyway. 

[caladein]

Also: buffs, crowd controls, and UNLIMITED POWER.

[Malakili]

snip images

And those were the only two healing 'spells' in the game, with the latter replacing the former. Really it was just one healing spell you could put an extra point into for an upgrade. One healing spell does not "a healer" make. Bastila had it and it was handy, but her main function was still asswhooping.

Well sure, because the game dropped you a million healing potions (those are totally sci-fi man) and was so easy you didn't need to heal much.  Bastila wasn't a Consular anyway. 

Well you've hit on something here.  We get potions and such with artifically huge cooldowns (or like WoW now, artifically limited to 1 per combat), and this is basically to make healers necessary (though part of the 1 potion per combat thing was also because of the cash requirement to potion chug, but thats a separate issues).

In Diablo 2, for instance, you sure as hell needed to heal a lot, you just didn't need another character to do it for you.  You jsut filled that belt up and chugged away.  They were relatively cheap, and the limit was more how many you wanted to/could carry than how many you could afford (at least past the very early game).  This is a clear "we want a healer for the sake of having a healer"  They could just as easily make those heal kits sufficient and make consulars more do more iconic force abiltiies and less light saber combat than the Jedi Knight.  That was alwasy the distinction really not "off tank and healer" but rather "light saber focus" or "force powers focus" and it still is to an extent, don't get me wrong, but mark my words you'll be seeing "Need Consular for Ord Mantell bounty hunter run, must be heal specced."

In the long run it doesn't matter, I've never been interested in this game right from the start, and the only reason I even post in this thread is because I'm a star wars fan.

[Lantyssa]

Well sure, because the game dropped you a million healing potions (those are totally sci-fi man) and was so easy you didn't need to heal much.  Bastila wasn't a Consular anyway. 

I hardly ever used stims/bacta.  The game wasn't designed with you needing a healer.  It's a significant change from the two previous games, which is my point.

Thanks WUA.  You get what I mean.

[UnSub]

I look at SWTOR as eight KOTORs in one box, since each class has entirely individual questlines and there's supposed to be zero duplication. Eight KOTORs for $60 seems like a pretty good deal.

Ahh, but are you going to get eight character slots for the box price? 

[Stabs]

If you simply want to play through the story you can just delete characters.

[fuser]

Why can the healer run directly between the droid tank and the trooper and take zero damage? Laser shots are a direct damage hit

Rewind it and you will see there's zero damage and she jumps willy nilly across the line of fire at 3min in.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Why can the healer run directly between the droid tank and the trooper and take zero damage? Laser shots are a direct damage hit

Rewind it and you will see there's zero damage and she jumps willy nilly across the line of fire at 3min in.

because this is an mmo and those lasers are just ranged auto-attack(think wow hunters)  the entire party will be able to stand in between leser blasts if they arent the ones being targetted. 

Welcome to diku, enjoy your stay.

[fuser]

Welcome to diku, enjoy your stay.

Thinking tho most diku's can do an aoe cone.. why not the same for a laser attack?

[Merusk]

I believe the answer the last time this came up was, "Hit detection is expensive on both bandwidth and cycle time."

[HaemishM]

The correct answer is "Most MMO players have gotten so used to this stupidity they don't even notice, and the Star Wars fans among them will buy this is we put anthrax in the box instead of DVD's."

[eldaec]

I believe the answer the last time this came up was, "Hit detection is expensive on both bandwidth and cycle time."

If Planetside can do it, a pve clone of guild wars certainly can.

[DLRiley]

no no its hellgate london rehash. don't drag guild wars good name into this 

[tmp]

Why can the healer run directly between the droid tank and the trooper and take zero damage? Laser shots are a direct damage hit

Rewind it and you will see there's zero damage and she jumps willy nilly across the line of fire at 3min in.

It's Star Wars. The healer could be size of a barn and these shots still wouldn't hit unless it's in the script they would.

[UnSub]

If you simply want to play through the story you can just delete characters.

Assuming that's not green, this will become an issue when BioWare starts releasing story updates. I'm sure that extra character slots will be purchasable though.

[Merusk]

I believe the answer the last time this came up was, "Hit detection is expensive on both bandwidth and cycle time."

If Planetside can do it, a pve clone of guild wars certainly can.

IIRC Planetside does a lot of it client-side and is thus vulnerable to all the hacks that come with such silliness.

[Reg]

Every MMO I've ever played - other than EVE has let me have 5 or 6 characters per server. Is there any reason to believe SWTOR would be different?

[Stormwaltz]

I believe the answer the last time this came up was, "Hit detection is expensive on both bandwidth and cycle time."

If Planetside can do it, a pve clone of guild wars certainly can.

IIRC Planetside does a lot of it client-side and is thus vulnerable to all the hacks that come with such silliness.

AC1 has been doing it server-side for arrows and bolt spells since 1999.

[Stabs]

Every MMO I've ever played - other than EVE has let me have 5 or 6 characters per server. Is there any reason to believe SWTOR would be different?

The reason to not give people 5 or 6 characters is because there's a meaningful crafter progression. SWG and Eve are designed so that you can opt to be less good at combat in return for being better at crafting.

SWTOR, like WoW, will be a game where crafting is an adventurer's hobby and most people max it out. It won't be a game where you put your Armoursmith on your Friends list and it's a dark day if he ever packs the game in.

[Reg]

Right, I'm not complaining about only getting 3 character slots per EVE account - only pointing out that that kind of limit is the exception rather than the rule and that there's no reason to believe that SWTOR will be like that. People are so anxious to bitch about this unreleased game that nobody has played that they're just making shit up to complain about at this point.

[Stabs]

Well functionally you only get one in Eve as character power is determined more by the amount of skill queues you have rather than the amount of alt slots.

And yeah they've come out and said crafting will be "WoW-like" and they want you to roll alts to see other storylines.

To be fair I don't think Unsub was implying he expected only one character slot, just that he expects less than 8.

[sam, an eggplant]

They haven't commented on the number of character slots one way or the other. My guess (and this is a complete guess) is that SWTOR will be heavily microtransaction-driven at release, though. Remember this is EA we're talking about here-- count ourselves lucky if they don't put intrusive fully voiced rotating advertisements for Axe body spray and Burger King in the cantina on Ord Mantell.

[Reg]

That's true. God only knows what kind of nonsense EA will try to push on us. They haven't got much of a record on MMOs aside from UO.

[sam, an eggplant]

EA is unmistakably evil, but Activision is definitively worse, and they haven't fucked up WoW. So you never know, they may leave SWTOR alone, assuming it hits its milestones and performs to expectations. "Expectations" of course being better sell-through and retention than any MMO ever has before.

And of course Lucasarts likely has final approval on all that stuff. Lucasarts likes its money, no doubt, but I don't know that they would allow Mountain Dew ads in the jedi temple on Dantooine. They want to protect their IP. I guess we'll see.

[DLRiley]

EA is unmistakably evil, but Activision is definitively worse, and they haven't fucked up WoW. So you never know, they may leave SWTOR alone, assuming it hits its milestones and performs to expectations. "Expectations" of course being better sell-through and retention than any MMO ever has before.

And of course Lucasarts likely has final approval on all that stuff. Lucasarts likes its money, no doubt, but I don't know that they would allow Mountain Dew ads in the jedi temple on Dantooine. They want to protect their IP. I guess we'll see.

Than why does EU exist?

[LK]

As long as it's within the context of the IP, it can be ridiculous and unbelievable as they want it to be. See: Force Unleashed and its "Force Troopers."

[AutomaticZen]

Change Mountain Dew to Mantell Dew.

Done.   

[sam, an eggplant]

I can't imagine Pepsico paying for non-branded advertisements. Ad content changes to fit the medium, but "mountain dew" and its logo are gonna be in there.

[Lantyssa]

Change Mountain Dew to Mantell Dew.

Mountain Dewback -- Quenches even a Tatoonian desert thirst!

[Typhon]

Change Mountain Dew to Mantell Dew.

Mountain Dewback -- Quenches even a Tatoonian desert thirst!

That sounds delicious.  I'd buy that.

[Malakili]

Anyone remember when the prequels were coming out and they were having the promotion with pepsi product cans having the characters on them?  I totally would've bought Mountain Dewback during that promotion.  I had collected the entire set of characters including the gold yoda can during that promotion.  Man what a loser.

[eldaec]

EVE has a specific reason for character limitations.

SWTOR has a specific reason to allow multiple characters.


Seriously, you'll be allowed at least 4, probably 8.

[Goreschach]

Is everyone forgetting that this is an MMO and that a few weeks before release they'll freak and crank up the level time, causing you to grind for days /played to progress a single character to max level?

[UnSub]

Every MMO I've ever played - other than EVE has let me have 5 or 6 characters per server. Is there any reason to believe SWTOR would be different?

It's EA's most expensive game ever. If they want to make money on it, they are going to be looking at every option available. Maybe two character slots at launch, two more unlockable when you get to certain points in-game and maybe able to buy up to 16 (or more).

EA will be looking to long-tail their revenue as much as possible, and giving players access to 8 character slots at launch isn't going to help that.

[UnSub]

Were I in BioWare, I'd ask Daniel Erickson to dial back the rhetoric a bit. But I'm not, so he keeps up his batting average with quotes like this:

"If you're someone that loves everything an MMO brings to the table, loves the community aspect, loves being able to see other people and say: 'I have better shoulder pads than you do,' everything you loved about MMOs is there for you.

"But if the idea of story and context really turns you off, if what you want is the just complete Disneyland experience, where you run on the rides and repeat the stuff, this probably isn't your favourite MMO.

"If you are a hardcore, traditional Bioware fan - a Mass Effect or especially Dragon Quest fan - this is the dream game. It is an RPG forever. It is an RPG that at the speed and pace that I play RPGs as a gamer, five or ten hours a week. I could never finish this game."

EDIT: closing the wrong tag.