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Author Topic: SWTOR  (Read 2071980 times)
Fordel
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Reply #1225 on: June 03, 2009, 02:51:35 PM

Mass Effect 2 live demo on right now.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Was that a new character in your party or did Ashley get some implants?

That's someone new, with a very VERY tight shirt.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Fordel
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Reply #1226 on: June 03, 2009, 02:53:55 PM

Oh boy, ACTION ORIENTED combat.  awesome, for real

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Montague
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Reply #1227 on: June 03, 2009, 02:55:10 PM

No gameplay. Zzzzzz

When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross - Sinclair Lewis.

I can tell more than 1 fucktard at a time to stfu, have no fears. - WayAbvPar

We all have the God-given right to go to hell our own way.  Don't fuck with God's plan. - MahrinSkel
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #1228 on: June 03, 2009, 02:55:17 PM

Sigh, it looks like the demo we can read about in various articles is only behind closed doors or something. Sucks :(

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/59009

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Falwell
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Reply #1229 on: June 03, 2009, 03:04:13 PM

Those hoping to see gameplay footage in that "stage demo" will have to be content with eating shit.
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #1230 on: June 03, 2009, 03:08:56 PM

Taste like chicken.

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
eldaec
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Reply #1231 on: June 03, 2009, 03:41:36 PM

Does this even have a fake release date yet? Who the hell was expecting real gameplay footage?

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #1232 on: June 03, 2009, 04:07:08 PM

Those hoping to see gameplay footage in that "stage demo" will have to be content with eating shit.
Forums are a flame with nerd rage about the lack of the demo they supposedly promised without delivering.  So much so that you can't create a new topic in any forum, and only reply to existing threads. 

Wow.  That Sean guy is WAY WAY out of his league.
Ghambit
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Reply #1233 on: June 03, 2009, 04:20:34 PM

Those hoping to see gameplay footage in that "stage demo" will have to be content with eating shit.
Forums are a flame with nerd rage about the lack of the demo they supposedly promised without delivering.  So much so that you can't create a new topic in any forum, and only reply to existing threads. 

Wow.  That Sean guy is WAY WAY out of his league.

There's already been a demo.  wtf are they whining for?

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #1234 on: June 03, 2009, 04:22:42 PM

I wrote that wrong, sorry.

The were apparently expecting to see 30 minutes of game footage.  Not sure where that specifically started from, but that's been the buzz of the forums the last couple of days.  "Journalists" got to play it (or see the demo), fans didn't.  Now forum/fans are pissed.
UnSub
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Reply #1235 on: June 03, 2009, 06:12:27 PM

I completely approve of the experimental MMO design that Bioware is trying out - a choose-your-own-adventure title that you can play with others and all pick which page to turn to.

The issue here is that they are doing it with the Star Wars IP, which is loaded with so much fan baggage that it would choke a sarlaac. The group decision process sounds okay up until players metagame it for powergaming advantage, grief each other about it and basically don't team. In fact, I see it (as described) as guaranteeing limited / small PUGs or solo play. Plus the content has to be replayable - has to - or else 1) Bioware will have to create more content for SWOR's launch than any other MMO to date - 40 hour storylines in MMOs tend to get eaten up within two weeks - and 2) players won't want to miss out on better content because their group picked the 'wrong' path.

At this point, it sounds like SWOR will be a MMO PvE with a giant lobby players can gather in before going into individual storylines.

Triforcer
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Reply #1236 on: June 03, 2009, 06:17:36 PM

I honestly believe that Bioware believes it can churn out static content at a rate that each person's personal "story" will last until the next expansion.  We are probably close in time to their "oh shit" moment when they realize that would take another five years, and EA won't allow that. 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Ghambit
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Reply #1237 on: June 03, 2009, 07:03:21 PM

I honestly believe that Bioware believes it can churn out static content at a rate that each person's personal "story" will last until the next expansion.  We are probably close in time to their "oh shit" moment when they realize that would take another five years, and EA won't allow that. 

This is why they have to use voiceovers and hopefully do-so w/o quest text.  I'd say the grind would probably 3+ times as much time to maxlevel if people have to listen to all the voiceovers.  Also, since much of the content is decision-based, you cant just skip through... because you could be seriously borking yourself.

I think it's evil, and ingenius if they indeed release the game that way.  I hope they do...  gonna take balls though

They can also take a lesson from MxO, which really didnt effectively get its players to take part in the active storyline, even with dynamic content.  Reason being, there was nothing forcing the players to aspire to do-so and the stories were just too few and far between.  Bioware is hiring an Army of writers, and they'll likely stay pretty employed if they can get the playerbase to sign onto this.  Instead of trying to make the content dynamic after-the-fact, they make it "dynamic" via CYOA before release... and update at their leisure.  Very smart if you asked me.

It'll be like an audiobook you can play.  The only other question I've got is how much scripting will there be?  If the writing is good enough, there wont need to be any.  Bland, and they better have some interaction beyond just CYOA.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Venkman
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Reply #1238 on: June 03, 2009, 07:44:02 PM

I completely approve of the experimental MMO design that Bioware is trying out - a choose-your-own-adventure title that you can play with others and all pick which page to turn to.

The only thing I find anywhere near innovative is the mention of multiplayer quest dialog. Everything else is just a crapload of money chasing a proven formula. The game play is derivative. The only thing really "experimental" is the scope of the promise  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I actually would like to see them make an AC1 with a story that mattered and kept players entertained, rather than giving them some specific new set of grinds every month. We've got WoW for that noise.
Triforcer
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Reply #1239 on: June 03, 2009, 07:47:15 PM

I'd say its highly unlikely that there will be no accompanying text, and/or be on option to skip cutscenes (although the latter gets complicated in a group setting).  There will be hearing-impaired players and/or those who want/need to play without sound.  There will be a much larger group of players who go into an unstoppable rage if they have to watch a cutscene every time.  Bioware, at some level, has to realize that.  

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #1240 on: June 03, 2009, 08:59:48 PM

Bioware, at some level, has to realize that.  

I think it might me...Yeah...It is...

It's time for my schild impersonation...

BioWare AUSTIN
Ghambit
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Reply #1241 on: June 03, 2009, 09:25:20 PM

I'd say its highly unlikely that there will be no accompanying text, and/or be on option to skip cutscenes (although the latter gets complicated in a group setting).  There will be hearing-impaired players and/or those who want/need to play without sound.  There will be a much larger group of players who go into an unstoppable rage if they have to watch a cutscene every time.  Bioware, at some level, has to realize that.  

So then have the text, but dont allow one to skip through until the cutscene has finished.  Either that or make the text scrolling w/o the ability to speed it up.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Triforcer
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Reply #1242 on: June 03, 2009, 09:38:31 PM

I'd say its highly unlikely that there will be no accompanying text, and/or be on option to skip cutscenes (although the latter gets complicated in a group setting).  There will be hearing-impaired players and/or those who want/need to play without sound.  There will be a much larger group of players who go into an unstoppable rage if they have to watch a cutscene every time.  Bioware, at some level, has to realize that.  

So then have the text, but dont allow one to skip through until the cutscene has finished.  Either that or make the text scrolling w/o the ability to speed it up.

That is the kind of shit we mock mercilessly when talking about old school EQ or some other exercise in virtual S&M.  What's the point in not giving people the option to skip it?  Because they "should" read it?  Why is "players should" still in the MMO dev's vocabulary? 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Ghambit
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Reply #1243 on: June 03, 2009, 09:53:47 PM

Umm.. the devs mentioned "the end of the story arc" for your particular class character.  Exactly what happens at the end??  Do we have to reroll?
(if there's no endgame I would hope there is no subscription fee)

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Triforcer
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Reply #1244 on: June 03, 2009, 10:03:39 PM

A couple of the E3 interviews that have been mentioned have said that the devs said this will be a "full trimmings" MMO- with full pvp (I don't think, from context, they meant FFA PvP), crafting, raids, etc).  Maybe that was in response to the "this is a single-player game" rumors floating around. 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Ratman_tf
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Reply #1245 on: June 03, 2009, 10:33:02 PM

Why should they risk the huge amount of money this game is costing on something experimental in the controls?

If half of what they're saying about the storyline stuff and PVE design is true, then the game will be plenty innovative already. Advancement in the genre doesn't have to be purely mechanical or visual.

I think this game is Not For Me. Quests were cool when we were coming off of games like EQ and DAOC, but now after years of 'em in WoW, I'm sick to death of quests and theme park storylines. All that voice acting and story driven quests sounds boring and the kind of thing I'd skip frantically so I can get back to bashing mobs. I wanna see something new on the gameplay side dammit!



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Triforcer
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Reply #1246 on: June 03, 2009, 10:35:14 PM

so I can get back to bashing mobs. I wanna see something new on the gameplay side dammit!

 why so serious?

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Ratman_tf
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Reply #1247 on: June 03, 2009, 11:07:05 PM

so I can get back to bashing mobs. I wanna see something new on the gameplay side dammit!

 why so serious?

I know. It doesn't even have to be earth shaking revolution. Just mob bashing that's got a new twist or two to play with.



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Tannhauser
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Reply #1248 on: June 04, 2009, 02:58:42 AM

Yeah, the game you're looking for is called Spellborn.  It takes about 1 minute of real time to kill a single bear.  You're welcome.
jayfyve
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Reply #1249 on: June 04, 2009, 04:01:34 AM


I'd actually personally be thrilled if I went in with a PUG and some douche killed the puppy anyway, and it meant that the karma police were going to come after all of us as a result.  Because that's how shit really works.  You don't get to re-roll, and you don't get to load the last save point.  Seriously, I'd love that (not because I'd do it, I'm a pretty straight arrow).  I suppose I'm damn near alone in that thinking.

I think this can be a good mechanic as well. To take a scenario from WoW, what if the Alliance and Horde could group together if they wanted to, but there were disadvantages to doing so, and eventually your allegiances switched.

Another way to say this might be, I roll a republic light side Jedi. Two months later, friends finally quit the other MMO's they are playing, but they all want to roll Sith. Now I can easily play with them, but my avatar's reputation slowly switches sides as well.
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #1250 on: June 04, 2009, 06:49:18 AM

so I can get back to bashing mobs. I wanna see something new on the gameplay side dammit!

 why so serious?

I know. It doesn't even have to be earth shaking revolution. Just mob bashing that's got a new twist or two to play with.

Like maybe a story that revolves around said mob bashing?
DLRiley
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Reply #1251 on: June 04, 2009, 07:19:42 AM

Yeah, the game you're looking for is called Spellborn.  It takes about 1 minute of real time to kill a single bear.  You're welcome.

45 seconds if you stand still.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS
so I can get back to bashing mobs. I wanna see something new on the gameplay side dammit!

 why so serious?

I know. It doesn't even have to be earth shaking revolution. Just mob bashing that's got a new twist or two to play with.

Like maybe a story that revolves around said mob bashing?

I think a combination of repayable story driven content + the option to kill mobs all day action game style is guaranteed to keep both camps happy along as it doesn't play like an mmo. Something that spellborn pretty much missed by 10,000 miles.
Ratman_tf
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Reply #1252 on: June 04, 2009, 08:11:47 AM

so I can get back to bashing mobs. I wanna see something new on the gameplay side dammit!

 why so serious?

I know. It doesn't even have to be earth shaking revolution. Just mob bashing that's got a new twist or two to play with.

Like maybe a story that revolves around said mob bashing?

Maybe, if they can tell a story without going to the conventions of "Read some text, Take a quest, Solve a quest, Show a cutscene."
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 08:13:18 AM by Ratman_tf »



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
tmp
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Reply #1253 on: June 04, 2009, 08:16:08 AM

Maybe, if they can tell a story without going to the conventions of "Read some text, Take a quest, Solve a quest, Show a cutscene."
How do you suggest a story could be told when text is a no, audio is a no, and visuals are also a no? Short of straight upload into brain matrix-style i'm kinda drawing a blank here...
DLRiley
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Reply #1254 on: June 04, 2009, 08:33:22 AM

I think its really a matter of tying in the whole story process to the progression of the game. Again when something plays like an mmo even good things like a story becomes retarded. Story =! excuse to grind.
Ghambit
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Reply #1255 on: June 04, 2009, 08:39:41 AM

I think its really a matter of tying in the whole story process to the progression of the game. Again when something plays like an mmo even good things like a story becomes retarded. Story =! excuse to grind.

This is one reason why I'd prefer they didnt use quest text, or at the least not traditional quest text.  It'd have to be stylized and ideally scrolling along with the audio.
Also, they have to vary the way the story is presented.  It cant just come from NPCs standing around.  They should be using holographic comms, messages, droids, go-betweens, The Force, radios, etc.

Boils down again to how much scripting leeway the writers have.  Hopefully, they've got a set of tools that easily allows them to inject different modes of storytelling.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
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Reply #1256 on: June 04, 2009, 08:45:02 AM

Am I the only person that wants a bounty hunter mission (preferably within the first 5 levels - hell, the tutorial) to lead you to a warehouse full of Nemoidian Bird Cages and you have to kill an architect and leave the place completely unrecognizable (maybe... a pile of ash)?
Montague
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Reply #1257 on: June 04, 2009, 08:45:23 AM

I think its really a matter of tying in the whole story process to the progression of the game. Again when something plays like an mmo even good things like a story becomes retarded. Story =! excuse to grind.

This is one reason why I'd prefer they didnt use quest text, or at the least not traditional quest text.  It'd have to be stylized and ideally scrolling along with the audio.
Also, they have to vary the way the story is presented.  It cant just come from NPCs standing around.  They should be using holographic comms, messages, droids, go-betweens, The Force, radios, etc.

Boils down again to how much scripting leeway the writers have.  Hopefully, they've got a set of tools that easily allows them to inject different modes of storytelling.

No, I think he's more saying that you have to tie story progression in with the ding-grats. The method of delivery will be irrelevant if the mechanical progression of the characters is the straight Diku-model - the MMOGtards will ignore it in the frenzy to get to end-game. Tying skills and abilities into quest progression in a LOTRO-esque fashion might be the answer.

When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross - Sinclair Lewis.

I can tell more than 1 fucktard at a time to stfu, have no fears. - WayAbvPar

We all have the God-given right to go to hell our own way.  Don't fuck with God's plan. - MahrinSkel
DLRiley
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Reply #1258 on: June 04, 2009, 08:52:37 AM

I think its really a matter of tying in the whole story process to the progression of the game. Again when something plays like an mmo even good things like a story becomes retarded. Story =! excuse to grind.

This is one reason why I'd prefer they didnt use quest text, or at the least not traditional quest text.  It'd have to be stylized and ideally scrolling along with the audio.
Also, they have to vary the way the story is presented.  It cant just come from NPCs standing around.  They should be using holographic comms, messages, droids, go-betweens, The Force, radios, etc.

Boils down again to how much scripting leeway the writers have.  Hopefully, they've got a set of tools that easily allows them to inject different modes of storytelling.

No, I think he's more saying that you have to tie story progression in with the ding-grats. The method of delivery will be irrelevant if the mechanical progression of the characters is the straight Diku-model - the MMOGtards will ignore it in the frenzy to get to end-game. Tying skills and abilities into quest progression in a LOTRO-esque fashion might be the answer.

No its the opposite, story shouldn't simply be a way to get your character from point A. to point B. otherwise you quickly run out of content and you have a serious problem with everything following the same formula when your attempting to tell a story. Your better of thinking people actually want to play the game and will go through the multiple story arcs in order to have more fun, then naturally assuming that progression is king. Because if you do assume progression is king than ultimately the game devolves into skipping the story anyway to quickly get to level up part only to rage 10 seconds later because you didn't unlocking the skill you want.
Ghambit
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Reply #1259 on: June 04, 2009, 09:24:00 AM

I think its really a matter of tying in the whole story process to the progression of the game. Again when something plays like an mmo even good things like a story becomes retarded. Story =! excuse to grind.

This is one reason why I'd prefer they didnt use quest text, or at the least not traditional quest text.  It'd have to be stylized and ideally scrolling along with the audio.
Also, they have to vary the way the story is presented.  It cant just come from NPCs standing around.  They should be using holographic comms, messages, droids, go-betweens, The Force, radios, etc.

Boils down again to how much scripting leeway the writers have.  Hopefully, they've got a set of tools that easily allows them to inject different modes of storytelling.

No, I think he's more saying that you have to tie story progression in with the ding-grats. The method of delivery will be irrelevant if the mechanical progression of the characters is the straight Diku-model - the MMOGtards will ignore it in the frenzy to get to end-game. Tying skills and abilities into quest progression in a LOTRO-esque fashion might be the answer.

No its the opposite, story shouldn't simply be a way to get your character from point A. to point B. otherwise you quickly run out of content and you have a serious problem with everything following the same formula when your attempting to tell a story. Your better of thinking people actually want to play the game and will go through the multiple story arcs in order to have more fun, then naturally assuming that progression is king. Because if you do assume progression is king than ultimately the game devolves into skipping the story anyway to quickly get to level up part only to rage 10 seconds later because you didn't unlocking the skill you want.

Just what I was about to type.  Ohhhhh, I see.
If the Story is good enough, endgame wont matter as much.  And it better be good, because so far we see no indication of any kind of robust endgame aside from PvP. 
If you check out the new "Heavy Rain" game for PS3 you'll see a masterful job of interactive storytelling.  Just watching the demo engrossed me.  In that type of game you cant click through dialogue, because the dialogue is actually part of the game...  that's what Bioware should try to achieve.  (obviously, it'd be more deliberate though)

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
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