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Author Topic: SWTOR  (Read 2071708 times)
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #1190 on: June 02, 2009, 07:43:32 PM

In other news, the Off Topic forums at swtor.com have been shut down as a result of the complete cesspit it has become.  Never fear, however, it will be reopened as they hire/place more community staff to help moderate the forums as a whole.  The fun then spilled over into other forums, which resulted in a flurry of locking/deleting of posts.

Facepalm
Kageru
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Reply #1191 on: June 02, 2009, 08:34:45 PM


It still bugs me that all the combat looks like they're swinging broadswords at armored foes. I know it looks pretty, but if your weapon is weightless and needs zero force to cut through just about anything and your foe is unarmored anyway a more guarded style (like rapier fencing) would just make so much more sense. Or a flamethrower for that matter.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Lantyssa
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Reply #1192 on: June 02, 2009, 08:45:00 PM

In other news, the Off Topic forums at swtor.com have been shut down as a result of the complete cesspit it has become.  Never fear, however, it will be reopened as they hire/place more community staff to help moderate the forums as a whole.  The fun then spilled over into other forums, which resulted in a flurry of locking/deleting of posts.
At least we get the pleasure of knowing we predicted this would happen.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
WindupAtheist
Army of One
Posts: 7028

Badicalthon


Reply #1193 on: June 02, 2009, 09:51:15 PM

I see a name in that thread which explains some things.  awesome, for real

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Koyasha
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Posts: 1363


Reply #1194 on: June 03, 2009, 03:10:10 AM

I like the idea of the group vote thing, AS LONG as I'm still an independent character of my own and if the group doesn't feel like killing a guy and I do, I can still whip out my blaster/lightsaber and do it myself without their approval.

If it means I'm actually restricted in my own actions by the wishes of my group, that's just going to drive me (and probably most people) away from grouping at all, even if there isn't permanent effects, and ESPECIALLY if there is.  If there's permanent decisions that I am forced to follow some group vote on for my character, it's likely I'd never group at all in any place where I have the slightest hint that there might be such a decision ahead.  Which means I'd play like it was a single-player game, and quit within a month or two once I've played out whatever story there is to experience.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
Simond
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Reply #1195 on: June 03, 2009, 04:48:09 AM


It still bugs me that all the combat looks like they're swinging broadswords at armored foes. I know it looks pretty, but if your weapon is weightless and needs zero force to cut through just about anything and your foe is unarmored anyway a more guarded style (like rapier fencing) would just make so much more sense. Or a flamethrower for that matter.
Cortosis weave.  Ohhhhh, I see.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
NowhereMan
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Reply #1196 on: June 03, 2009, 05:40:53 AM

I like the idea of the group vote thing, AS LONG as I'm still an independent character of my own and if the group doesn't feel like killing a guy and I do, I can still whip out my blaster/lightsaber and do it myself without their approval.

It's not going to go that way because 1) It would never work the other way, if your party votes to kill the captain you can't really choose to not do it and 2) Since I'm guessing the effect is a gameplay one of your quest branch will involve the captain being alive (based on the group choice) and then you kill him and shunt them down another path the potential for griefing would be ridiculous. I can see why they're going for this since the alternative is no grouping or having one set storyline people follow but it sounds like it could potentially suck balls, especially if these plot choices have any real gameplay consequences such as companions or faction choices. I'm guessing that they're more related to plot and what your next quest or next part of that quest involves doing though. Basically I'm hoping the difference in this case amounts to what the next quest is rather than rewards.

I imagine it will involve agreeing with any PUGs before you start a quest what quest path you're going to go for then hoping the majority aren't lying/too retarded to pick the path they want.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Tmon
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Reply #1197 on: June 03, 2009, 06:09:45 AM

 I remember how pissed people got in Guild Wars when someone chose not to skip a cut scene and forced everyone in the group to wait for it to end.  Can only imagine how pissed someone who is shooting for perfect good will be when their group forces them to kill the puppy. I imagine that anything truly game changing would be something that group votes won't effect.  Maybe the karma change from killing the puppy will be based on your vote and the changes in the story line are cosmetic and only affect who and what you see later and not what rewards are available.
Koyasha
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Reply #1198 on: June 03, 2009, 06:20:10 AM

I imagine it will involve agreeing with any PUGs before you start a quest what quest path you're going to go for then hoping the majority aren't lying/too retarded to pick the path they want.
That's highly unacceptable to me, it means I'd have to research every quest ahead of time and know all the outcomes and dialogue choices, which would ruin most of the fun of the story-based gameplay in the first place.

Honestly I don't know how such a disagreement could be worked out in a "fair" way.  I hope they come up with something clever and interesting beyond what I can think of right now, but at the very least I hope that any decisions in a group environment present you with the option to not have them permanently affect your character, even if it means you later have to replay the mission.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
AutomaticZen
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Reply #1199 on: June 03, 2009, 06:41:45 AM

Couldn't you just not PUG?  Group with friends or solo.

In a system like that, I'd to do it my way the first time around (solo or group of friends), and then PUG and see where it takes me the second time.  Sounds fun actually.
Cyrrex
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Reply #1200 on: June 03, 2009, 06:46:52 AM

The reason this isn't going to work (if in fact it won't) is because human beings suck.  I'm not only talking about the griefers.  It's also all the rest of us who are so horribly concerned that the whole experience plays out to our precise expectations so that we can achieve the exact reward we were expecting...and all of that because whenever we're in a multiplayer game we're really competing in some strange arms race.  If you were in a single player game, do you go back to your save point when you realize you shouldn't have killed the puppy, or do you just roll with it and make the best out of it?

I'd actually personally be thrilled if I went in with a PUG and some douche killed the puppy anyway, and it meant that the karma police were going to come after all of us as a result.  Because that's how shit really works.  You don't get to re-roll, and you don't get to load the last save point.  Seriously, I'd love that (not because I'd do it, I'm a pretty straight arrow).  I suppose I'm damn near alone in that thinking.

Fake edit:  after seeing AZ's response, maybe I'm not the only one.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Triforcer
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Reply #1201 on: June 03, 2009, 06:48:42 AM

Combine multiplayer dialogue with this: (from http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/03/e3-09-the-old-republic-new-class-more/)

Quote
The emphasis on story means there’s also a strong focus on morality. Whether you’re Republic or Sith, you can still be a bastard (I have been promised that there will be plenty of opportunities to make some completely horrendous decisions) or a do-gooder. And with Dark and Light come unique abilities unavailable to those who fail to be as lovely or as evil as you.

...and we've got, to put it mildly, some serious problems.  Even setting aside the whole multiplayer dialogue issue, I REALLY think Bioware is underestimating the nerdrage that will come from being forced to forgo certain abilities because of dialogue choices (especially when the consequence of the choice isn't 100% obvious at the time.  Hell, even if it IS obvious, abilities get nerfed and buffed).

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Lantyssa
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Reply #1202 on: June 03, 2009, 07:57:02 AM

If they can limit the group vote to impacting the story, but my vote determining the rewards, then I am okay with it.  I don't PUG, so I can live with the consequences of what my friends choose.  As long as they're in character, I could handle it with strangers, too.

My take from that example Tri is that it's not specific quests which determine your good/evil abilities, it's how good or evil you are.  That is something you should always be able to shift.  I bet those of us who like to stay neutral lose out though, like all the other morality games.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Cyrrex
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Reply #1203 on: June 03, 2009, 07:59:52 AM

I don't see why they couldn't make up some sort of neutral power set.  Don't ask me what that would be, but surely it's plausible.

They won't, of course.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Simond
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Reply #1204 on: June 03, 2009, 09:31:26 AM

Word of God sez "Grey Jedi inevitably fall to the Dark Side in the end"

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
HaemishM
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the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #1205 on: June 03, 2009, 09:32:54 AM

The whining that will occur with group vote griefing will be FUCKING DELICIOUS.  why so serious?

Venkman
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Reply #1206 on: June 03, 2009, 09:37:00 AM

I'm sure this will be a heavily controlled experience. I actually like that Ghambit was right in terms of there being player choice/moral decisions along the way. But as you've all mentioned, this system has limitedly described has more problems than not.

My guess is that they've already got some very heavy contrivances coming. They'll need to protect PUGs from themselves but give the friend groups the multiplayer dialog options. They'll probably end up making it the soul decision of either the group leader or whoever is on the current quest that started the conversation with the NPC. Players will discuss it in chat or something but it'll fall to one person. And this itself will be an option in the same vein as NBG/roll party loot options.
Ratman_tf
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Reply #1207 on: June 03, 2009, 11:44:03 AM

"hay guys, should we kill the puppy?"

"KILL PUPPIES! IM A SITH AND THAT MEANS IM A BADASS!11!!!1 I HAVE SKULLS ON MY JAMMIES!"

"gtg GF aggro"

"I miss everquest, when do we get past this moral quest bullshit and get back to killing mobs?"

">>>buy credits! Safe Secure Transaction! /telll creditspammer01532978 $15 per 100 credits!<<<"



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
tmp
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POW! Right in the Kisser!


Reply #1208 on: June 03, 2009, 12:01:22 PM

don't forget:

"Everyone pay me ONE MILLION CREDITS or the puppy gets it."
Ghambit
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Reply #1209 on: June 03, 2009, 12:17:47 PM

I personally like this mechanic.  A lot of us have been whining about the softcore-ness this whole metrosexual storytelling business was imparting on the game.  Since they're now making it tied to abilities, faction, gear, etc. it'll make people pay more attention to the storyline, their actions, AND who they group with.

There's a potential for a bit o' metagaming in the simple act of forming a viable group.  After all, what kind of dumbass Jedi goes and groups with a Sith that kills puppies?  How close an eye do you keep on that neutral Smuggler when it comes time to deal with the Syndicate?  It all makes sense.  The PUG is no longer just a PUG, it's an adventure in itself   awesome, for real

I'll like it more if they'll allow me to tag someone as "enemy" so I can kill them if/when they decide to turn to the darkside.  If there's self-retribution implemented with this mechanic, that's pure win. 
If they DONT allow me to kill puppy-killers (or at least grossly effect their faction rating, zone access, maybe put up a bounty or kill mission, etc.) then the mechanic aint gonna work.

It's a Storytelling game, so they may as well add more story-based mechanisms, including those generated by phucktards you group with...   all of a sudden the group quest turns into a witch-hunt for Leeroy Jenkins and his bad karma.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
DLRiley
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Reply #1210 on: June 03, 2009, 12:48:00 PM

Oh god this game will create a black hole in the internet due to all the e-rage it will generate per second. Mmo forums will never be the same  DRILLING AND MANLINESS
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 01:01:01 PM by DLRiley »
tmp
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POW! Right in the Kisser!


Reply #1211 on: June 03, 2009, 12:58:46 PM

G4tv has a hands-on report as well, with some detail on combat and such:

Quote
Control-wise, Republic works much like other MMOs, with you using the “W," "A,” “S,” and “D” or arrow buttons to move, and the number keys to initiate attacks that correspond to the numbered icons along the bottom of the screen. Except that when you play as a Sith, as I did, doing simple melee attacks with your lightsaber builds up your Action Points, which you can use to do special attacks. So, for example, after attacking some guys a couple times with some quick jabs of the “1” key, I was able to stun everyone around me with a “5.” Or maybe a “4.” It happened kind of fast. All I know is everyone stopped hitting me long enough for me to slice ’em up.
eldaec
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Posts: 11838


Reply #1212 on: June 03, 2009, 01:11:11 PM

Combine multiplayer dialogue with this: (from http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/03/e3-09-the-old-republic-new-class-more/)

Quote
The emphasis on story means there’s also a strong focus on morality. Whether you’re Republic or Sith, you can still be a bastard (I have been promised that there will be plenty of opportunities to make some completely horrendous decisions) or a do-gooder. And with Dark and Light come unique abilities unavailable to those who fail to be as lovely or as evil as you.

...and we've got, to put it mildly, some serious problems.  Even setting aside the whole multiplayer dialogue issue, I REALLY think Bioware is underestimating the nerdrage that will come from being forced to forgo certain abilities because of dialogue choices (especially when the consequence of the choice isn't 100% obvious at the time.  Hell, even if it IS obvious, abilities get nerfed and buffed).


There will be respeccing after 3 months, and rage will fade.

And it'll be a choice between feeding orphans or killing kittens, so anyone unable to pick the one they want is unlikely to be capable of installing the game in the first place. Worrying about the group decision thing is also probably misplaced, dollars to donuts the decisions are buried in click through dialog boxes, and those dialog box votes will end up giving you light side / dark side according to your vote, rather than the party decision.



Maybe it'll be a problem on consoles.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 01:18:10 PM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Draegan
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Posts: 10043


Reply #1213 on: June 03, 2009, 01:13:44 PM

G4tv has a hands-on report as well, with some detail on combat and such:

Quote
Control-wise, Republic works much like other MMOs, with you using the “W," "A,” “S,” and “D” or arrow buttons to move, and the number keys to initiate attacks that correspond to the numbered icons along the bottom of the screen. Except that when you play as a Sith, as I did, doing simple melee attacks with your lightsaber builds up your Action Points, which you can use to do special attacks. So, for example, after attacking some guys a couple times with some quick jabs of the “1” key, I was able to stun everyone around me with a “5.” Or maybe a “4.” It happened kind of fast. All I know is everyone stopped hitting me long enough for me to slice ’em up.

Doesn't sound very original.
Simond
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Posts: 6742


Reply #1214 on: June 03, 2009, 01:32:40 PM

Fuck originality. SWG was original.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Murgos
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Reply #1215 on: June 03, 2009, 01:44:18 PM

"HAy, Guyz.  I need leik 1 more darkside point for force choke so make sure you pick the darkside option, k?  I've been grinding dark for months man, for realz"
"Sure bro, np"
*Your amazing act of kindness has shifted you significantly toward the light: You gain 221 light points*
"NOOOO, YOU FUCKING FAT FAGGOT MOOSEFUCKER!!! AHHHHH"

Oh, it will be glorious, glorious.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #1216 on: June 03, 2009, 01:57:14 PM

G4tv has a hands-on report as well, with some detail on combat and such:

Quote
Control-wise, Republic works much like other MMOs, with you using the “W," "A,” “S,” and “D” or arrow buttons to move, and the number keys to initiate attacks that correspond to the numbered icons along the bottom of the screen. Except that when you play as a Sith, as I did, doing simple melee attacks with your lightsaber builds up your Action Points, which you can use to do special attacks. So, for example, after attacking some guys a couple times with some quick jabs of the “1” key, I was able to stun everyone around me with a “5.” Or maybe a “4.” It happened kind of fast. All I know is everyone stopped hitting me long enough for me to slice ’em up.

God-fucking-damnit. Let's not even bother trying to do anything besides what been done with gameplay mechanics in every single fucking MMOG since 2004.

Ingmar
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Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #1217 on: June 03, 2009, 02:10:44 PM

Why should they risk the huge amount of money this game is costing on something experimental in the controls?

If half of what they're saying about the storyline stuff and PVE design is true, then the game will be plenty innovative already. Advancement in the genre doesn't have to be purely mechanical or visual.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Koyasha
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Posts: 1363


Reply #1218 on: June 03, 2009, 02:19:23 PM

I'd actually personally be thrilled if I went in with a PUG and some douche killed the puppy anyway, and it meant that the karma police were going to come after all of us as a result.  Because that's how shit really works.  You don't get to re-roll, and you don't get to load the last save point.  Seriously, I'd love that (not because I'd do it, I'm a pretty straight arrow).  I suppose I'm damn near alone in that thinking.
This is pretty much what I would want.  I don't mind wanting to NOT kill the puppy and have someone else do it anyway, because that's how shit works.  I would mind having some vote actually prevent me from killing the puppy if I want to, though.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #1219 on: June 03, 2009, 02:22:38 PM

Live demo *should* be up in a few minutes:

http://e3.gamespot.com/live.html?tag=topslot;thumb;1

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Montague
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Reply #1220 on: June 03, 2009, 02:38:44 PM

Mass Effect 2 live demo on right now.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross - Sinclair Lewis.

I can tell more than 1 fucktard at a time to stfu, have no fears. - WayAbvPar

We all have the God-given right to go to hell our own way.  Don't fuck with God's plan. - MahrinSkel
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #1221 on: June 03, 2009, 02:39:43 PM

Yep, awesome  DRILLING AND MANLINESS. But on the schedule it said SWTOR...Well, maybe it's all things bioware time...

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
AutomaticZen
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Posts: 768


Reply #1222 on: June 03, 2009, 02:46:35 PM

Mass Effect 2 live demo on right now.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Was that a new character in your party or did Ashley get some implants?
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #1223 on: June 03, 2009, 02:49:35 PM

Here we go...

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
AutomaticZen
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Posts: 768


Reply #1224 on: June 03, 2009, 02:50:48 PM

NOOOOOOOO!  Trailer why?!
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