SWTOR

[Ghambit]

I wonder if the group training BioWare writers get, based on BioWare's single player experience, won't leave a lot of the writing as though it is 10 different single player plots that everyone just works through.

If you look at storylines in MMOs, MxO had (imo) a really interesting one that progressed things quite a bit. Each chapter gave each of the three sides something to do, then the resolution was announced and the storyline moved on. It did little to save the game and stop players from leaving because the basic gameplay mechanics weren't what people wanted to play.

2 gold stars for Unsub.  This is what I'm talking about (I mentioned MxO previously), if Bioware wanted TRUE story-driven gameplay then they should focus on utilizing their staff and the players DURING gametime... not before.  There are loads of net volumes on progressive Storytelling game theory, none of them involve a few dozen writers simply writing stories.  All of them involve systems similar to MxO's or some sort of uber-code that takes input from the user and translates it into meaningful theme and plot.  It offers endless replayability, which is what MMOs are really about.

What should be happening is a system developed to ADVANCE the storyline, not just live it to its end depending on which class you are.  Rinse, wash, repeat.   In a genre where the main actors are pretty vanilla, this is even more important.  All Jedis really HAVE is storyline... and blasters and starships.  Throw in persistent RvR (also a developing storyline) and you're set.

btw, how is there still no mention of ANY kind of factional warfare?  this is a joke right?

[Riggswolfe]

I suddenly realized why they didn't call this KOTORO.  If it goes the way of the NGE, it least it doesn't poison the name of the franchise.

Yeah, its obvious, but I'm naive in some ways. 

You're overanalyzing. They didn't call this KOTRO because Jedi and Sith are 2 out of 8(?) classes and not the total focus of the story as they were in single player.

Or did I miss the implied green?

[Mrbloodworth]

SOE responds to the announcement of Star Wars: The Old Republic

We think what most Galaxies want to hear, first and foremost from SOE, what the Old Republic announcement means for them. What does the announcement of The Old Republic mean for Star Wars Galaxies players?

John Smedley: I think since there was no date announced with the game, it's safe to assume it will be released far enough in the future that is not any immediate issue for Galaxies players. We do not know when that game is going to launch, I don't believe they know when that game is going to launch. For the foreseeable future, Galaxies is quite safe. How long that is, I think has more to do with how and when that game comes along.

At some point we'll make a decision about when and if to sunset Galaxies, but as of right now we don't have any plans to do that.

And some SOE forum goodness about the subject.

[Riggswolfe]

Translation:

If SWTOR sucks: Galaxies stays in business.
If SWTOR is midly successful: Galaxies stays in business but bleeds some players.
If SWTOR is a hit: Galaxies dies.

[UnSub]

Translation:

If SWTOR sucks: Galaxies stays in business.
If SWTOR is midly successful: Galaxies stays in business but bleeds some players.
If SWTOR is a hit: Galaxies dies.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

[TripleDES]

And some SOE forum goodness about the subject.

What the fuck is that a Justim Timberlake Stormtrooper sig in the first post? SWG players truly are faggots.

[Simond]

Translation:

If SWTOR sucks: Galaxies stays in business.
If SWTOR is midly successful: Galaxies stays in business but bleeds some players.
If SWTOR is a hit: Galaxies dies.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

Always two there are, a master and an apprentice.

 

[eldaec]

But which one was destroyed, the master or the apprentice?

[Triforcer]

 

http://kotaku.com/5075263/biowares-halloweeners-mock-their-own-giant-lightsabers

[Venkman]

PC Gamer had an ok writeup of SWTOR. Nothing more than we didn't already know. Images look better in print than they did in this thread though.

I can't remember where I first head this anecdote of the quest design process there, but they carried it in PCG too. Basically, a bunch of writers sit around coming up with ideas. As each is presented, the lead guy provides as suffix something about "and then Darth Vader...". If anyone snickers, the whole idea is tossed. Darth Vader does not save 10 kittens.

[VainEldritch]

I'm still recovering from my creepy experience with AoC, the overhyped bastard of MMO and FPS... 

FU(n)Com's effort a la Tortage made AoC rather surreal. On the one hand, singleplayer "kill X foozles" quests at night and on the other hand a daylight chat room with a few FPS PvP options but absolutely no "RPG" to be had (not supported, seemingly). I found it all rather queer, a bit like watching Eraserhead for the first time.

Now I've recovered and stopped taking the Quells^tm, I'd rather not go through that again with SW:TOR, thank you. Too early to say anything else -simply not enough information. Fun, albeit of the unkind kind, to be had hypothesizing on the innumerable way they can feck this up.

The old "shit-in-a-box" moniker cannot in all fairness be applied to SWG, however. As someone else pointed out, that was a case of monumental mismanagement on a truly biblical scale and the stench of that corpse will cling to SOE and John Smee-Hee for years to come.

My fondest hope it that SW:TOR will be a sandbox peppered liberally with meaningful quests and choices that suggest ways for the players to go and provide mechanisms of support for those choices without railroading. This would of course mean a return to mmoRPG, those latter three letters are you'll have noticed are frequently neglected by "enthusiastic" (read: spinning) suits.

My only thoughts are the screenshots scream "CARTOONISH" - and I mean in the Warner Bros. way...  What happened to the grimy "Used Future" which was the whole basis of the Star Wars look?

Just say "no!" to cartoony graphics - they are demeaning to the subject material, and lead to Hentai.




 

[UnSub]

My fondest hope it that SW:TOR will be a sandbox peppered liberally with meaningful quests and choices that suggest ways for the players to go and provide mechanisms of support for those choices without railroading. This would of course mean a return to mmoRPG, those latter three letters are you'll have noticed are frequently neglected by "enthusiastic" (read: spinning) suits.

To be fair, the vast majority of players ignore the RPG too.

Just say "no!" to cartoony graphics - they are demeaning to the subject material, and lead to Hentai.

Having seen the size of the lightsabers in SWOR, I'm sure Rule 34 will kick in soon anyway.

[VainEldritch]

My fondest hope it that SW:TOR will be a sandbox peppered liberally with meaningful quests and choices that suggest ways for the players to go and provide mechanisms of support for those choices without railroading. This would of course mean a return to mmoRPG, those latter three letters are you'll have noticed are frequently neglected by "enthusiastic" (read: spinning) suits.

To be fair, the vast majority of players ignore the RPG too.

Curses! Foiled again! And I'd have got away with it too, if it wasnt for the damned majority of paying subscribers!

 Oh, wait a minute... 

[tmp]

My only thoughts are the screenshots scream "CARTOONISH" - and I mean in the Warner Bros. way...  What happened to the grimy "Used Future" which was the whole basis of the Star Wars look?

KotOR (and to lesser extent the 'new trilogy') happened -- i'd figure the reasoning behind it was, stuff that appears grimy, broken and used in the last few movies might've looked bit fresher few decades or few thousand years before.

The graphics style seems quite consistent with the style of single player KotOR games, so it's a few years late to complain about it.

[Venkman]

... so it's a few years late to complain about it.

Err, you have seen the which-came-first Ultima or Dragonstomper argument in the other thread right? 

It's never too late to complain about something, even if you complained about it years ago too! 

[tmp]

In light of the evidence i have no choice but concede the point

[WindupAtheist]

Remember, it doesn't remember where in the universe you are or what decade/century it is, everything must look consistent! I went to Montreal and it all looked pretty clean and nice. Then I traveled back in time to Delhi, India in 1934 and everything was dirty as hell. What the fuck, real life? Try some consistency!

[Ki Adi Mundi]

Well, I, for one, am looking forward to the game.  Naturally, I have reservations.  I wasn't exactly happy about the whole project, but now?  I'm looking at it as a chance to dive into a new Star Wars game, plain and simple, so I'm excited.

[UnSub]

Welcome.

Kill the sig pic.

[schild]

I let this guy in because I didn't think he was a spammer. I suppose that's ironic. Peace out bro.

[Triforcer]

New screens up yesterday...

http://www.swtor.com/media/screens

Decidedly less cartoony, although lightsaber hilts are still made of Pringles cans. 

[Azazel]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=265389&page=2
That's no longer the case, says Erickson - and as a result, the class narratives in SWTOR are "the most unique stories we've ever told". What's more, even if you play through the entire game as a Jedi, then do it all again as a Sith, "You will not see one repeated piece of content. Not one quest, not one line of dialogue, nothing."

Damn. Stormwaltz - shove a sock in this guy's fucking mouth. Don't let him talk to the press again until release is imminent. We know EA will push it out the door before it's ready (see WAR) and all this"bigger than WOW" and other huge promises like the above will make you look like as big a bunch of fuckwits as Paul Burnett.

[ashrik]

Those screenies look pretty good. Lightsabers have been toned down, and are merely long instead of gigantic cylinders.

As for the thing about the quest text, I ask you who cares? That's not a crazy thing to offer, nor is it something to be excited about. If I told you that Alliance and Horde get completely unique quests without repeated dialog, would you give a shit? I definitely wouldn't.

[Venkman]

Goes back to whether reading the story matters. In WoW it does not, as in that game the only choice you have is whether to advance or to not advance. But in an RPG like Fallout 3 or Fable, paying attention to the quest means making a choice that matters. SWTOR is saying they're trying for the latter.

[Rishathra]

I'm wondering if they did the same thing for the hilts that was done to Chris Tucker for The Fifth Element.  They showed him some waaaay outlandishly fairy outfits, anticipating his rejection, then showed him some that were less outlandish, but still out there, which were in fact the ones they wanted him to wear.

Those screens are definitely much better than the first ones, and not just because of the improved hilts.

[UnSub]

SWOR is going micro-trans, no sub fees.

I can see this working very well. Or blowing up horribly. It all depends on how well Bioware can design the game.

[Zane0]

This is probably good.. for me, since there'll only be a few months of content and I won't pay subscription for a glorified single player game. How Bioware intends to benefit is a more interesting question. There is a strong Guild Wars vibe that I find increasingly discouraging.

[SnakeCharmer]

I don't see why anyone is getting bent out of shape about it on the official forums.

Who cares how you pay for it as long as the game is good.

[ashrik]

I'm going to withhold judgment until I can get a sense of how it's implemented. It could be the Next Great Thing or just a credit card hungry monster. I know Bioware from their great games, not their industry innovations (in the way of Steam or Battle.net, for instance)- so who knows how it'll play out.

[Triforcer]

EA has told Shacknews that no statements have been made about the business model, and Mr. Riccitello's comments were misunderstood.

Sounds like another instance of that guy opening his mouth months before he was supposed to 

[Evildrider]

As a SW geek.. a one-time SWG fanatic, and someone who's bought alot of Bioware games.  I'm seriously unenthusiastic about this game.  It's not helping that the more I hear and see about the game, the more it becomes even less likely that I'll play it.

[TripleDES]

Since EA is involved, I bet there's a need for vital items against $$$.

[simonh]

EA can deny making any descision on business model but Riccitiello clearly knows whats going on with it, even if he isnt meant to talk about it yet.

I really dont see them going with a traditional Asian style microtransaction model. If they are not doing subscriptions then I think they will do things a bit differently, perhaps paying for content. new areas, new storylines, etc. This way, they can still sell a box. Requiring customers to buy a box and then doing korean item sales is not a good idea.

Personally, I think this really should be a traditional box and subscription game. The audience is clearly big enough, SWG did not lack for initial box sales.. Assuming the game is decent, the revenue from subscriptions will more than pay for all the additional ongoing content development.

[Lucas]

Oh, and by the way, just in case you aren't up to date, sometime today we'll get to see the first, public "video documentary" of the game, including in-game footage.

Should be fun 

[Merusk]

I don't see why anyone is getting bent out of shape about it on the official forums.

Who cares how you pay for it as long as the game is good.

You were reading the official forums of a game that has barely been announced and for which no details are readily available.  Those posting are the hardest of the hardcore in terms of fanbois and players.  As such there are two problems that develop.

1) They all have their own little vision about the gameplay, exact mechanics and EXACTLY how things should work based on nothing but their own screenshot-fueled dreams and wishes.  Anything that veers from that will be met with howls and anguish.

2) Being the hardcore uberfans, they are the MOST likely to be fucked-over by a microtrans model.  They'll dump $30 or more per game account a month on features and upgrades instead of $15 a month for the same 'full service.'     You'd see similar whining and gnashing of teeth from the WOW-lifers if it moved to a Chineese model of pay-per-hour that had you paying $15 a month if you played 20 hours a week and a shrug from folks who would a) budget time appropriately or b) give a cheer because they would be saving money per month.