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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: SWTOR 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: SWTOR  (Read 2071961 times)
Ghambit
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Reply #140 on: November 03, 2008, 06:25:06 AM

I wonder if the group training BioWare writers get, based on BioWare's single player experience, won't leave a lot of the writing as though it is 10 different single player plots that everyone just works through.

If you look at storylines in MMOs, MxO had (imo) a really interesting one that progressed things quite a bit. Each chapter gave each of the three sides something to do, then the resolution was announced and the storyline moved on. It did little to save the game and stop players from leaving because the basic gameplay mechanics weren't what people wanted to play.

2 gold stars for Unsub.  This is what I'm talking about (I mentioned MxO previously), if Bioware wanted TRUE story-driven gameplay then they should focus on utilizing their staff and the players DURING gametime... not before.  There are loads of net volumes on progressive Storytelling game theory, none of them involve a few dozen writers simply writing stories.  All of them involve systems similar to MxO's or some sort of uber-code that takes input from the user and translates it into meaningful theme and plot.  It offers endless replayability, which is what MMOs are really about.

What should be happening is a system developed to ADVANCE the storyline, not just live it to its end depending on which class you are.  Rinse, wash, repeat.   In a genre where the main actors are pretty vanilla, this is even more important.  All Jedis really HAVE is storyline... and blasters and starships.  Throw in persistent RvR (also a developing storyline) and you're set.

btw, how is there still no mention of ANY kind of factional warfare?  this is a joke right?

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Riggswolfe
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Reply #141 on: November 03, 2008, 07:16:05 AM

I suddenly realized why they didn't call this KOTORO.  If it goes the way of the NGE, it least it doesn't poison the name of the franchise.

Yeah, its obvious, but I'm naive in some ways. 

You're overanalyzing. They didn't call this KOTRO because Jedi and Sith are 2 out of 8(?) classes and not the total focus of the story as they were in single player.

Or did I miss the implied green?

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #142 on: November 03, 2008, 02:07:09 PM

SOE responds to the announcement of Star Wars: The Old Republic

Quote
We think what most Galaxies want to hear, first and foremost from SOE, what the Old Republic announcement means for them. What does the announcement of The Old Republic mean for Star Wars Galaxies players?

John Smedley: I think since there was no date announced with the game, it's safe to assume it will be released far enough in the future that is not any immediate issue for Galaxies players. We do not know when that game is going to launch, I don't believe they know when that game is going to launch. For the foreseeable future, Galaxies is quite safe. How long that is, I think has more to do with how and when that game comes along.

At some point we'll make a decision about when and if to sunset Galaxies, but as of right now we don't have any plans to do that.

And some SOE forum goodness about the subject.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Riggswolfe
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Reply #143 on: November 03, 2008, 02:36:06 PM

Translation:

If SWTOR sucks: Galaxies stays in business.
If SWTOR is midly successful: Galaxies stays in business but bleeds some players.
If SWTOR is a hit: Galaxies dies.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
UnSub
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Reply #144 on: November 03, 2008, 04:39:53 PM

Translation:

If SWTOR sucks: Galaxies stays in business.
If SWTOR is midly successful: Galaxies stays in business but bleeds some players.
If SWTOR is a hit: Galaxies dies.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

TripleDES
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Reply #145 on: November 04, 2008, 05:51:55 AM

What the fuck is that a Justim Timberlake Stormtrooper sig in the first post? SWG players truly are faggots.

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Simond
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Reply #146 on: November 04, 2008, 11:10:17 AM

Translation:

If SWTOR sucks: Galaxies stays in business.
If SWTOR is midly successful: Galaxies stays in business but bleeds some players.
If SWTOR is a hit: Galaxies dies.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
Always two there are, a master and an apprentice.

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eldaec
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Reply #147 on: November 04, 2008, 12:34:56 PM

But which one was destroyed, the master or the apprentice?


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Triforcer
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Reply #148 on: November 05, 2008, 05:23:27 AM


All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Venkman
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Reply #149 on: November 05, 2008, 06:09:02 PM

PC Gamer had an ok writeup of SWTOR. Nothing more than we didn't already know. Images look better in print than they did in this thread though.

I can't remember where I first head this anecdote of the quest design process there, but they carried it in PCG too. Basically, a bunch of writers sit around coming up with ideas. As each is presented, the lead guy provides as suffix something about "and then Darth Vader...". If anyone snickers, the whole idea is tossed. Darth Vader does not save 10 kittens. awesome, for real
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 06:10:43 PM by Darniaq »
VainEldritch
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Reply #150 on: November 11, 2008, 07:00:01 AM

I'm still recovering from my creepy experience with AoC, the overhyped bastard of MMO and FPS...  ACK!

FU(n)Com's effort a la Tortage made AoC rather surreal. On the one hand, singleplayer "kill X foozles" quests at night and on the other hand a daylight chat room with a few FPS PvP options but absolutely no "RPG" to be had (not supported, seemingly). I found it all rather queer, a bit like watching Eraserhead for the first time.

Now I've recovered and stopped taking the Quellstm, I'd rather not go through that again with SW:TOR, thank you. Too early to say anything else -simply not enough information. Fun, albeit of the unkind kind, to be had hypothesizing on the innumerable way they can feck this up.

The old "shit-in-a-box" moniker cannot in all fairness be applied to SWG, however. As someone else pointed out, that was a case of monumental mismanagement on a truly biblical scale and the stench of that corpse will cling to SOE and John Smee-Hee for years to come.

My fondest hope it that SW:TOR will be a sandbox peppered liberally with meaningful quests and choices that suggest ways for the players to go and provide mechanisms of support for those choices without railroading. This would of course mean a return to mmoRPG, those latter three letters are you'll have noticed are frequently neglected by "enthusiastic" (read: spinning) suits.

My only thoughts are the screenshots scream "CARTOONISH" - and I mean in the Warner Bros. way...  huh What happened to the grimy "Used Future" which was the whole basis of the Star Wars look?

Just say "no!" to cartoony graphics - they are demeaning to the subject material, and lead to Hentai.




 

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Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
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Reply #151 on: November 11, 2008, 05:08:43 PM

My fondest hope it that SW:TOR will be a sandbox peppered liberally with meaningful quests and choices that suggest ways for the players to go and provide mechanisms of support for those choices without railroading. This would of course mean a return to mmoRPG, those latter three letters are you'll have noticed are frequently neglected by "enthusiastic" (read: spinning) suits.

To be fair, the vast majority of players ignore the RPG too.

Quote
Just say "no!" to cartoony graphics - they are demeaning to the subject material, and lead to Hentai.

Having seen the size of the lightsabers in SWOR, I'm sure Rule 34 will kick in soon anyway.

VainEldritch
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Reply #152 on: November 12, 2008, 06:53:25 AM

My fondest hope it that SW:TOR will be a sandbox peppered liberally with meaningful quests and choices that suggest ways for the players to go and provide mechanisms of support for those choices without railroading. This would of course mean a return to mmoRPG, those latter three letters are you'll have noticed are frequently neglected by "enthusiastic" (read: spinning) suits.

To be fair, the vast majority of players ignore the RPG too.

Curses! Foiled again! And I'd have got away with it too, if it wasnt for the damned majority of paying subscribers!

 Oh, wait a minute...  Head scratch

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
tmp
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Reply #153 on: November 16, 2008, 07:43:54 AM

My only thoughts are the screenshots scream "CARTOONISH" - and I mean in the Warner Bros. way...  huh What happened to the grimy "Used Future" which was the whole basis of the Star Wars look?
KotOR (and to lesser extent the 'new trilogy') happened -- i'd figure the reasoning behind it was, stuff that appears grimy, broken and used in the last few movies might've looked bit fresher few decades or few thousand years before.

The graphics style seems quite consistent with the style of single player KotOR games, so it's a few years late to complain about it.
Venkman
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Reply #154 on: November 16, 2008, 07:50:08 AM

... so it's a few years late to complain about it.
Err, you have seen the which-came-first Ultima or Dragonstomper argument in the other thread right?  awesome, for real

It's never too late to complain about something, even if you complained about it years ago too!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
tmp
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Reply #155 on: November 16, 2008, 07:53:01 AM

In light of the evidence i have no choice but concede the point Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
WindupAtheist
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Reply #156 on: November 16, 2008, 09:41:34 AM

Remember, it doesn't remember where in the universe you are or what decade/century it is, everything must look consistent! I went to Montreal and it all looked pretty clean and nice. Then I traveled back in time to Delhi, India in 1934 and everything was dirty as hell. What the fuck, real life? Try some consistency!

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Reply #157 on: November 17, 2008, 03:19:39 AM

Well, I, for one, am looking forward to the game.  Naturally, I have reservations.  I wasn't exactly happy about the whole project, but now?  I'm looking at it as a chance to dive into a new Star Wars game, plain and simple, so I'm excited.
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Reply #158 on: November 17, 2008, 05:12:54 AM

Welcome.

Kill the sig pic.

schild
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Reply #159 on: November 17, 2008, 06:27:57 AM

I let this guy in because I didn't think he was a spammer. I suppose that's ironic. Peace out bro.
Triforcer
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Reply #160 on: November 29, 2008, 12:02:12 AM

New screens up yesterday...

http://www.swtor.com/media/screens

Decidedly less cartoony, although lightsaber hilts are still made of Pringles cans. 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Azazel
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Reply #161 on: November 29, 2008, 06:04:42 AM

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=265389&page=2
That's no longer the case, says Erickson - and as a result, the class narratives in SWTOR are "the most unique stories we've ever told". What's more, even if you play through the entire game as a Jedi, then do it all again as a Sith, "You will not see one repeated piece of content. Not one quest, not one line of dialogue, nothing."

Damn. Stormwaltz - shove a sock in this guy's fucking mouth. Don't let him talk to the press again until release is imminent. We know EA will push it out the door before it's ready (see WAR) and all this"bigger than WOW" and other huge promises like the above will make you look like as big a bunch of fuckwits as Paul Burnett.


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ashrik
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Reply #162 on: November 29, 2008, 07:33:22 AM

Those screenies look pretty good. Lightsabers have been toned down, and are merely long instead of gigantic cylinders.

As for the thing about the quest text, I ask you who cares? That's not a crazy thing to offer, nor is it something to be excited about. If I told you that Alliance and Horde get completely unique quests without repeated dialog, would you give a shit? I definitely wouldn't.
Venkman
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Reply #163 on: November 29, 2008, 10:43:09 AM

Goes back to whether reading the story matters. In WoW it does not, as in that game the only choice you have is whether to advance or to not advance. But in an RPG like Fallout 3 or Fable, paying attention to the quest means making a choice that matters. SWTOR is saying they're trying for the latter.
Rishathra
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Reply #164 on: November 29, 2008, 01:51:00 PM

I'm wondering if they did the same thing for the hilts that was done to Chris Tucker for The Fifth Element.  They showed him some waaaay outlandishly fairy outfits, anticipating his rejection, then showed him some that were less outlandish, but still out there, which were in fact the ones they wanted him to wear.

Those screens are definitely much better than the first ones, and not just because of the improved hilts.

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Reply #165 on: December 09, 2008, 04:59:00 PM

SWOR is going micro-trans, no sub fees.

I can see this working very well. Or blowing up horribly. It all depends on how well Bioware can design the game.

Zane0
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Reply #166 on: December 09, 2008, 05:27:25 PM

This is probably good.. for me, since there'll only be a few months of content and I won't pay subscription for a glorified single player game. How Bioware intends to benefit is a more interesting question. There is a strong Guild Wars vibe that I find increasingly discouraging.
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #167 on: December 09, 2008, 05:28:20 PM

I don't see why anyone is getting bent out of shape about it on the official forums.

Who cares how you pay for it as long as the game is good.
ashrik
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Reply #168 on: December 09, 2008, 08:14:35 PM

I'm going to withhold judgment until I can get a sense of how it's implemented. It could be the Next Great Thing or just a credit card hungry monster. I know Bioware from their great games, not their industry innovations (in the way of Steam or Battle.net, for instance)- so who knows how it'll play out.
Triforcer
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Reply #169 on: December 10, 2008, 01:21:58 AM

EA has told Shacknews that no statements have been made about the business model, and Mr. Riccitello's comments were misunderstood.

Sounds like another instance of that guy opening his mouth months before he was supposed to  awesome, for real

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Evildrider
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Reply #170 on: December 10, 2008, 01:58:14 AM

As a SW geek.. a one-time SWG fanatic, and someone who's bought alot of Bioware games.  I'm seriously unenthusiastic about this game.  It's not helping that the more I hear and see about the game, the more it becomes even less likely that I'll play it.
TripleDES
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Reply #171 on: December 10, 2008, 03:48:10 AM

Since EA is involved, I bet there's a need for vital items against $$$.

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simonh
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Codemasters


Reply #172 on: December 10, 2008, 04:01:52 AM


EA can deny making any descision on business model but Riccitiello clearly knows whats going on with it, even if he isnt meant to talk about it yet.

I really dont see them going with a traditional Asian style microtransaction model. If they are not doing subscriptions then I think they will do things a bit differently, perhaps paying for content. new areas, new storylines, etc. This way, they can still sell a box. Requiring customers to buy a box and then doing korean item sales is not a good idea.

Personally, I think this really should be a traditional box and subscription game. The audience is clearly big enough, SWG did not lack for initial box sales.. Assuming the game is decent, the revenue from subscriptions will more than pay for all the additional ongoing content development.
Lucas
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Reply #173 on: December 12, 2008, 08:31:49 AM

Oh, and by the way, just in case you aren't up to date, sometime today we'll get to see the first, public "video documentary" of the game, including in-game footage.

Should be fun  ACK!

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Merusk
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Reply #174 on: December 12, 2008, 08:38:50 AM

I don't see why anyone is getting bent out of shape about it on the official forums.

Who cares how you pay for it as long as the game is good.


You were reading the official forums of a game that has barely been announced and for which no details are readily available.  Those posting are the hardest of the hardcore in terms of fanbois and players.  As such there are two problems that develop.

1) They all have their own little vision about the gameplay, exact mechanics and EXACTLY how things should work based on nothing but their own screenshot-fueled dreams and wishes.  Anything that veers from that will be met with howls and anguish.

2) Being the hardcore uberfans, they are the MOST likely to be fucked-over by a microtrans model.  They'll dump $30 or more per game account a month on features and upgrades instead of $15 a month for the same 'full service.'     You'd see similar whining and gnashing of teeth from the WOW-lifers if it moved to a Chineese model of pay-per-hour that had you paying $15 a month if you played 20 hours a week and a shrug from folks who would a) budget time appropriately or b) give a cheer because they would be saving money per month.


The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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