What went wrong.

[waffel]

Blizzard took being shit on by GW and losing the rights to the IP turned it into one of the biggest and best things to ever happen to the company.

And playing in beta sucked. I was so excited to get into beta, then I realized what a shithole the game was. The fact they refused to listen to the players, banned people giving feedback, and forced shit down players throats (trying to force PQs to only be completed by 2+ FGs) totally turned me off to even playing it. Mythic has a track record of not listening to their players until it is way, way too late. I have no idea why they don't give a shit about their players, but its how the company has always been run. Anyone remember "Tabled, need specifics" Christ.

I actually was looking to sell my beta account on some website for 300-400 bucks and kind of wish I did.

[raydeen]

Warhammer orcs as they are now: Bloodthirsty, savage, battle-hungry, dumb as bricks fungus people.
Warcraft orcs as they are now:Ruthless, barbaric, clan-style warriors with average intelligence.

While at one time the two ip's may have been copied, as it stands right now they are as seperate as any two fantasy ip that share the same bacis racial structures of a tolkien-esque world.  I'm not saying either is superior as I myself love the warhammer universe but warhammer cannot blame wow's success on their ip nor can they blame their own failure on it.

Different worlds, same game mechanics.

This brings up the one major difference between WoW and WAR. Something that really didn't become apparent to me until I played WC3 and read a bit of the lore. In WoW, there really are no good guys or bad guys, just differing factions and opinions. In essence, the bad guys were all just good guys that at one point got tricked, lied to, or generally fucked over. The good guys sometimes have some skeletons in their closets that lead to them being right bastards. In WAR, the good guys are good guys and the bad guys are definitely BAD GUYS. Very polarized. I never felt really good about WoW PVP but WAR PVP at least had the right vibe to it. The mechanic is all fucked up, but the tension is there.

Not sure that this contributes, just an observation.

[Hindenburg]

In WAR, the good guys are good guys

Lolwut?

[Bismallah]

I think it's more the good guys are bad guys and the bad guys are definitely BAD GUYS  

[Arthur_Parker]

The IP is not the source of their problem. The IP, as a source material, is not the source of their problem. The IP being similar to WoW in that it is a rather traditional fantasy setting caused their problems, when compared to each other, to stand out that much more brightly as they copied too many of the mechanics from WoW for a PvP/RvR game.

Hey feel free to fail to quote a more suitable fantasy IP about it.  While you're at, expand on how the Warhammer IP isn't the source of their problem but the fact that Warhammer is a rather traditional fantasy setting caused their problems.

[BitWarrior]

While you're at, expand on how the Warhammer IP isn't the source of their problem but the fact that Warhammer is a rather traditional fantasy setting caused their problems.

Warhammer is a fine IP. The market is saturated in fantasy-based MMOs.

[ghost]

I agree wholeheartedly but that was warcraft. If you take warhammer orcs and world of warcraft orcs, you will see two completely different races.  I understand that the warcraft orcs were warhammer orcs renamed but blizz has since retcon'd a lot or just flat out changed them to be very different.

Warhammer orcs as they are now: Bloodthirsty, savage, battle-hungry, dumb as bricks fungus people.
Warcraft orcs as they are now:Ruthless, barbaric, clan-style warriors with average intelligence.

While at one time the two ip's may have been copied, as it stands right now they are as seperate as any two fantasy ip that share the same bacis racial structures of a tolkien-esque world.  I'm not saying either is superior as I myself love the warhammer universe but warhammer cannot blame wow's success on their ip nor can they blame their own failure on it.

Different worlds, same game mechanics.

Well, I suppose if we really want to get snarky about it pretty much everyone stole everything from Lord of the Rings and JRR Tolkein, but hey.  I'm glad people did.  

The original Orcs in Warcraft RTS game were pretty much spot on Warhammer:  green, pokey buildings, weird Englishy/Jersey accents, etc.  I have to be honest though......I really like what WAR has done with their story line with their Orcs.  It would be interesting to play the scourge or some faction that is truly evil, however, instead of the watered down everybody is good in their own way factions.

[Morfiend]

While you're at, expand on how the Warhammer IP isn't the source of their problem but the fact that Warhammer is a rather traditional fantasy setting caused their problems.

Warhammer is a fine IP. The market is saturated in fantasy-based MMOs.

Warcraft is a fine IP. The market is saturated in fantasy-based MMOs.

Hey look. I brought us back to 2003.

[BitWarrior]

Hey look. I brought us back to 2003.

Yeah but back then you were wrong. Times, like, 11 million.

EDIT: Well in all fairness, I shouldn't even say that. "Saturated" is subject to opinion, and never factual data. One person might say there are too many while others might say there arn't enough. However, I stated what I said to provide clarity for Arthur in regards to Grim's arguments, I wasn't stating any personal opinion.

[Arthur_Parker]

According to EA , nothing went wrong , it's rosy and "numbers are increasing"

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/star-wars-mmo-explained

"Frank Gibeau: No, actually our player numbers are increasing, so I don't know where they're getting that data. Our numbers are doing great. It's booming, both in Europe and North America. We haven't launched in Asia yet so that's going to be a big opportunity but it's one of the fastest-growing MMOs in the history of the industry and we didn't see our numbers cap out or slow down - they're continuing to crank."


It's "cranking" in the US and EU ? Really ? Damn I guess it was just my server and my guild that had the population drop off the cliff the past couple weeks ,

Said before but worth repeating whenever EA mentions how well WAR is doing. 

The EU had a major influx of returning players on the 14th of November, tens of thousands, maybe well over 100,000 players, they just don't know about it.  There was never an option to cancel your account in the EU, clicking suspend would just set your account to manual billing (instead of recurring) and display the subscription end date, good enough right?  The 14th is when GOA set all EU credit card accounts to recurring billing, if they had your credit card details, you might have double checked you cancelled (as I did) but they force enabled recurring billing on all accounts. 

They did send an email but it read like a new option was being introduced for accounts and didn't say "we are going to bill you, once a month from now on".  They have since said it was a "mistake" but don't appear to intend doing anything to "fix" the mistake.

[Arthur_Parker]

However, I stated what I said to provide clarity for Arthur in regards to Grim's arguments, I wasn't stating any personal opinion.

He doesn't have any, he's just a tit.

[Grim]

Hello F13.

[Grim]

Hello F13.

[Arthur_Parker]

There isn't a more suitable dwarf/elf/human/goblin/orc IP, that's the point that keeps flying by you.

Exactly and if that point keeps flying by me, then why did you take so long to admit it?  So going back to your original point, you actually meant they shouldn't have made a fantasy game and that would have given them an "advantage"?

[Grim]

Hello F13.

[Arthur_Parker]

So they should have made a better game.  K.

[Morfiend]

So they should have made a better game.  K.

That I can agree with.

[Grim]

Hello F13.

[ghost]

So they should have made a better game.  K.

What a perfect answer to the OP and thread title.

What happened?

They should have made a better game..........

[Arthur_Parker]

Grim really deserves full credit for that, it was as much as I could pin him down on.

[Zzulo]

This brings up the one major difference between WoW and WAR. Something that really didn't become apparent to me until I played WC3 and read a bit of the lore. In WoW, there really are no good guys or bad guys, just differing factions and opinions. In essence, the bad guys were all just good guys that at one point got tricked, lied to, or generally fucked over. The good guys sometimes have some skeletons in their closets that lead to them being right bastards. In WAR, the good guys are good guys and the bad guys are definitely BAD GUYS. Very polarized. I never felt really good about WoW PVP but WAR PVP at least had the right vibe to it. The mechanic is all fucked up, but the tension is there.

Not sure that this contributes, just an observation.

except that the "good guys" in WAR are genocidal fucking maniacs. The "bad guys" in WAR are just worse. The only thing that makes the empire "the good guys" is the fact that they represent stability rather than chaos. The stability they represent is all about burning families to the ground and destroying any opposing factions and ruling the faith/lives/beliefs of their denizens with an iron fist.

my inner nerd is raging, on the internet dear god

[Bismallah]

Yeah, it would have went down like this in any random village around Troll Country:

Random Warrior Priest: "There's daemons here, I just know it"

Random Witch Hunter: "Fuck it, let's do it, let's do the whole fucking village"

Random Bright Wizard: "Right-o"

[Sophismata]

Grim has a point. If the game had a completely different setting, even as poor as it is it'd attract players that are tired of fantasy MMORPG's. Otherwise, you're looking at a choice between this one fantasy MMORPG, and this other, much better, fantasy MMORPG.

This brings up the one major difference between WoW and WAR. Something that really didn't become apparent to me until I played WC3 and read a bit of the lore. In WoW, there really are no good guys or bad guys, just differing factions and opinions. In essence, the bad guys were all just good guys that at one point got tricked, lied to, or generally fucked over. The good guys sometimes have some skeletons in their closets that lead to them being right bastards. In WAR, the good guys are good guys and the bad guys are definitely BAD GUYS. Very polarized. I never felt really good about WoW PVP but WAR PVP at least had the right vibe to it. The mechanic is all fucked up, but the tension is there.

Unfortunately, in WAR there should be no good guys. Everyone's a damn villain in that setting, Mythic have just failed to realise it in-game. Damn shame.

[Ingmar]

I can get behind this 'not a fantasy MMO' thing. Maybe it could have been some kind of space MMO. Maybe with Romans...

[ghost]

Back to the original topic:

I logged on for a bit tonight and saw about 8 toons, 6 of which were BWs, sitting around Troll Country's order warcamp.  No RvR going on at all. 

If this doesn't scream "PROBLEM" to Mythic, then I'm not sure what will.  Their piddly ass patches have yet to really fix their problem.......

[tolakram]

Back to the original topic:

I logged on for a bit tonight and saw about 8 toons, 6 of which were BWs, sitting around Troll Country's order warcamp.  No RvR going on at all. 

If this doesn't scream "PROBLEM" to Mythic, then I'm not sure what will.  Their piddly ass patches have yet to really fix their problem.......

I'm wondering if they've given up on t1-3 rvr, treating them like empty battlegrounds, and are only concerned with t4 rvr.   That would be a huge mistake.

[ghost]

Back to the original topic:

I logged on for a bit tonight and saw about 8 toons, 6 of which were BWs, sitting around Troll Country's order warcamp.  No RvR going on at all. 

If this doesn't scream "PROBLEM" to Mythic, then I'm not sure what will.  Their piddly ass patches have yet to really fix their problem.......

I'm wondering if they've given up on t1-3 rvr, treating them like empty battlegrounds, and are only concerned with t4 rvr.   That would be a huge mistake.

Yeah, it would be an enormous mistake.  I can't write a statement that is hyperbolic enough to fully emphasize point.  As it stands, leveling in this game is like sticking hot pokers in your eyes.  The leveling in WAR is even worse than leveling in WoW, and that is saying something.  If they "abandon" T1-3 nobody would ever make it.  You would just have to get XP from PVE and PQ shit ass content. 

[Grim]

Hello F13.

[eldaec]

This brings up the one major difference between WoW and WAR. Something that really didn't become apparent to me until I played WC3 and read a bit of the lore. In WoW, there really are no good guys or bad guys, just differing factions and opinions. In essence, the bad guys were all just good guys that at one point got tricked, lied to, or generally fucked over. The good guys sometimes have some skeletons in their closets that lead to them being right bastards. In WAR, the good guys are good guys and the bad guys are definitely BAD GUYS. Very polarized. I never felt really good about WoW PVP but WAR PVP at least had the right vibe to it. The mechanic is all fucked up, but the tension is there.

WoW : everyone is a good guy, form a certain point of view, and hates each other.

WAR : one side is neutral, the other evil.

Warhammer : everyone is evil and hates each other.


Arguably Warhammer is closer to WoW than to WAR.


None of this has anything to do with the problems of WAR other than it was one opportunity for differentiation that the team ignored.

[Arthur_Parker]

None of this has anything to do with the problems of WAR other than it was one opportunity for differentiation that the team ignored.

I'd agree, being different is sometimes only a slight advantage, WAR was mostly aimed at Ex or current WoW players.  Saying it's easy to leave WAR and go back to WoW because it's so similar, kinda misses the point that the similarity (fear of change and all that) might have attracted a large number of players across in the first place.  End result, the players just pick the better game.  Even that's ignoring the shiny factor of a new expansion.

In other news.

Last November we launched what we hoped would be a ground breaking sci-fi MMO. In many ways, we think we've achieved that goal. Tabula Rasa has some unique features that make it fun and very different from every other MMO out there. Unfortunately, the fact is that the game hasn't performed as expected. The development team has worked hard to improve the game since launch, but the game never achieved the player population we hoped for.

So it is with regret that we must announce that Tabula Rasa will end live service on February 28, 2009.

Unique features are good, being different is good to a point, too different and you introduce a barrier to entry.  Ultimately though, gameplay > all.

[Sophismata]

Unique features are good, being different is good to a point, too different and you introduce a barrier to entry.  Ultimately though, gameplay > all.

That's a good point. I'd forgotten that familiarity can also be comforting.

[Vinadil]

If you like levelling from Tier 1-3 come to Ostermark... we seem to be the only server that enjoys those levels more that T4.  You will have constant queues and a LOT of RVR action along the way... until you hit T4.  We seem to have the opposite problem of others, in that as soon as people hit 32 they roll an alt and just do it all over again.

[eldaec]

In other news.

Last November we launched what we hoped would be a ground breaking sci-fi MMO. In many ways, we think we've achieved that goal. Tabula Rasa has some unique features that make it fun and very different from every other MMO out there. Unfortunately, the fact is that the game hasn't performed as expected. The development team has worked hard to improve the game since launch, but the game never achieved the player population we hoped for.

So it is with regret that we must announce that Tabula Rasa will end live service on February 28, 2009.

Unique features are good, being different is good to a point, too different and you introduce a barrier to entry.  Ultimately though, gameplay > all.

Tabula Rasa didn't fail because it was different. It failed because it was total crap at launch and because it was so utterly uninteresting and lacking in flair that nobody could be arsed to try it again when they started to fix things.

See also : Hellgate.

[Arthur_Parker]

I didn't say it failed because it was different, I'm just pointing out that being different isn't some kind of magical formula that can cover up glaring errors.

[squirrel]

Dear fucking god - make this stop.

Please. With an extra "S". Can we simply Den new War threads? I only ask because if  this is what we get, well we don't deserve nice things.

I play War. It has issues. If you're reading this, so do you.