What went wrong.

[korrowan]

I ll never understand how people say this is a PVE game when I have done 2 level 26s and countless level 10-20's and I have yet to do PVE.  Granted maybe tier 4 you have to do some?  ITs all about server population..heck on a server while playing Order yesterday we had constant RvR in tier 1 and tier 2 throughout the day between the 5 min scenario pops.  If you want to RvR the issue is either you do not go find it.. or you picked a server with crap population which will be fixed by transfers in the next week or so.  You are the deciding factor in how the game is played out especially now that exp is amazing in RvR 700 for a solo kill at level 10... which is way better than PvE (at least in beta).

[khaine]

man there has been tons of bad warhammer games in the past

that warhammer RTS comes to mind. It was so mediocre it passed right on over to horrible

Battle March? I picked it up for 360. Wasn't TERRIBLE. If you're a Warhammer fan I'm sure it's a lot easier to over look the shittier aspects but I enjoyed it.

Shadow of the Horned Rat or something like that I believe

Little flags I remember on the screen all over and something like you had to speed click or something

It was horrible

[khaine]

I ll never understand how people say this is a PVE game when I have done 2 level 26s and countless level 10-20's and I have yet to do PVE.  Granted maybe tier 4 you have to do some?  ITs all about server population..heck on a server while playing Order yesterday we had constant RvR in tier 1 and tier 2 throughout the day between the 5 min scenario pops.  If you want to RvR the issue is either you do not go find it.. or you picked a server with crap population which will be fixed by transfers in the next week or so.  You are the deciding factor in how the game is played out especially now that exp is amazing in RvR 700 for a solo kill at level 10... which is way better than PvE (at least in beta).

Let me know how tier 3/4 is for you once everyone is doing nothing but scenarios and quests for scenarios because thats the only way to reasonably level

I play/ed on med-high pop and tier 3 and 4 (4 is much worse) there is very little open RvR , no PVE either , because EVERYONE is standing around doing nothing but scenarios

You've discovered what everyone else knows , tier 1 and 2 is fun , 3 is meh , and 4 is boring beyond belief

[CecilDK]

I ll never understand how people say this is a PVE game when I have done 2 level 26s and countless level 10-20's and I have yet to do PVE.  Granted maybe tier 4 you have to do some?  ITs all about server population..heck on a server while playing Order yesterday we had constant RvR in tier 1 and tier 2 throughout the day between the 5 min scenario pops.  If you want to RvR the issue is either you do not go find it.. or you picked a server with crap population which will be fixed by transfers in the next week or so.  You are the deciding factor in how the game is played out especially now that exp is amazing in RvR 700 for a solo kill at level 10... which is way better than PvE (at least in beta).

A) If you have 30 min. queues and open RvR is dead, you have little to no choice but to do PvE

B) Transfers, especially self-selecting transfers, are unlikely to fix the problem.  It's likely to make low pop servers much worse, and may imbalance some med pop servers even more.  It's possible it'll help, but it's no guarantee of changing anything.

C) Open RvR is nice if you can find it.  People stick to scenarios because it is reliable experience.  Solo kills are a bad metric, because players are rarely solo, and there's no way to know if you can find anyone.  If you spend an hour in an RvR lake without finding anyone you've wasted your time.

[korrowan]

I ll never understand how people say this is a PVE game when I have done 2 level 26s and countless level 10-20's and I have yet to do PVE.  Granted maybe tier 4 you have to do some?  ITs all about server population..heck on a server while playing Order yesterday we had constant RvR in tier 1 and tier 2 throughout the day between the 5 min scenario pops.  If you want to RvR the issue is either you do not go find it.. or you picked a server with crap population which will be fixed by transfers in the next week or so.  You are the deciding factor in how the game is played out especially now that exp is amazing in RvR 700 for a solo kill at level 10... which is way better than PvE (at least in beta).

A) If you have 30 min. queues and open RvR is dead, you have little to no choice but to do PvE

B) Transfers, especially self-selecting transfers, are unlikely to fix the problem.  It's likely to make low pop servers much worse, and may imbalance some med pop servers even more.  It's possible it'll help, but it's no guarantee of changing anything.

C) Open RvR is nice if you can find it.  People stick to scenarios because it is reliable experience.  Solo kills are a bad metric, because players are rarely solo, and there's no way to know if you can find anyone.  If you spend an hour in an RvR lake without finding anyone you've wasted your time.

Sure it is a bad metric but that was just an example.  Most of the time it was my group of 5 working with other non warband groups taking points and what not.  It truly seems to me that the servers that have good population have good RvR even on my 2 26's (on different servers) the one on the low pop server has crap RvR but the one on High / Med has amazing RvR... the whole issue with the game is server population. 

I doubt they allow you to choose any server and will force people to certain servers to increase their pops as they know what the issues are just like we do.

[Arthur_Parker]

I ll never understand how people say this is a PVE game when I have done 2 level 26s and countless level 10-20's and I have yet to do PVE. 

If I'm honest, I'm wondering if you have you yet to experience PVE because you couldn't figure out how to leave the starter town, possibly, despite people constantly talking about PVE, maybe you just don't believe it's present in WAR.  I'm also curious how you can have countless alts in a game that's been out just over a month and that has a limited number of character slots available per account.

[waffel]

I ll never understand how people say this is a PVE game when I have done 2 level 26s and countless level 10-20's and I have yet to do PVE.  Granted maybe tier 4 you have to do some?  ITs all about server population..heck on a server while playing Order yesterday we had constant RvR in tier 1 and tier 2 throughout the day between the 5 min scenario pops.  If you want to RvR the issue is either you do not go find it.. or you picked a server with crap population which will be fixed by transfers in the next week or so.  You are the deciding factor in how the game is played out especially now that exp is amazing in RvR 700 for a solo kill at level 10... which is way better than PvE (at least in beta).

You must be on some magical server that has open RvR going on at all times, because unless you're doing open RvR I can't imagine how you managed to do multiple alts through the same T1 and T2 scenarios over and over and over. And if you somehow did do scenarios over and over, and enjoyed it enough to make multiple characters to do them, than congrats. Warhammer is the game for you.

[Righ]

I'm also curious how you can have countless alts in a game that's been out just over a month and that has a limited number of character slots available per account.

My assumption was that he couldn't count very far.

[Morfiend]

I'm also curious how you can have countless alts in a game that's been out just over a month and that has a limited number of character slots available per account.

My assumption was that he couldn't count very far.

By very far, I am pretty sure you mean 5.

[Threash]

A lot of things that dont get mentioned are the minor annoyances like not being able to alt tab without crashing, taking over 5 mins to get control of my computer back after logging off and lagging and stuttering like crazy in altdorf even at the lowest possible settings.  This on a computer that easily ran AoC on medium/high settings.

[Signe]

Hey!  5 is one of my favourite numbers and the other one is five, too!  Oh I love my fibs!   

[UnSub]

At least if WAR tanks and GW throws Mythic under the bus they can save face and keep the IP attractive for potential development.

Oh, if only I'd been around to point out that SWOR is being developed in regardless of SWG. It could have stopped the stupid.

Or that WAR40K is probably going to come out despite WAR.

Or which development studio would want to work with GW if they pull the license at the first sign of problems, 30 days post launch.

[Gurney]

At least if WAR tanks and GW throws Mythic under the bus they can save face and keep the IP attractive for potential development.

Oh, if only I'd been around to point out that SWOR is being developed in regardless of SWG. It could have stopped the stupid.

Or that WAR40K is probably going to come out despite WAR.

Or which development studio would want to work with GW if they pull the license at the first sign of problems, 30 days post launch.

You can't stop the stupid.  That is why it is stupid.

[korrowan]

I ll never understand how people say this is a PVE game when I have done 2 level 26s and countless level 10-20's and I have yet to do PVE. 

If I'm honest, I'm wondering if you have you yet to experience PVE because you couldn't figure out how to leave the starter town, possibly, despite people constantly talking about PVE, maybe you just don't believe it's present in WAR.  I'm also curious how you can have countless alts in a game that's been out just over a month and that has a limited number of character slots available per account.

I just had no reason to do it.. if you are on a high pop server you can do Scenarios all the time.. its what my friends and I do because we do not really like mindlessly killing mobs without reason.  Granted it is much quicker on the Order side of things as the pops are much more consistent.  Queue starting at level 1 and go .. watch movie or football or whatever between pops.

Last night on Wurtbad in Tier2 there was constant RvR including keep sieges while I was on (Dwarf area)... and between that I did scenarios that have around 5 min pops at most.. so RvR.. then scenarios and repeat. 


To the clown that insults my math skills because I do not keep count of all of my toons including ones I delete (maybe I should keep a nice excel sheet for you or write an Access database and give you OBDC link to my companies SQL Server where I will host it .. I have deleted some alts and even played a couple on my wife's account when my slots were full... I have tried nearly every class (haven't played Black Orc or White Lion (I hate pet classes but played Squig as it is amusing to run around as a squig) and played them until 10 or so to see what they are all about.  So I guess somewhere around 18 not including any that I played on my wife's account besides my 2 26 sorcs. 

[Venkman]

Ahh! Too many parentheticals! Help!

 

[Arthur_Parker]

I just had no reason to do it.. if you are on a high pop server you can do Scenarios all the time.. its what my friends and I do because we do not really like mindlessly killing mobs without reason. 

Then just say that, there's nothing wrong with not being interested in PVE, but you can't just dismiss all it's problems because you are (only) level 26 and haven't been affected by them as yet.  Talking about countless alts when they are lower levels doesn't help either.

How's realm rank compare to your level when advancing purely by pvp for leveling up?  Did your realm rank stay capped most of the time?

[UnSub]

if you are on a high pop server you can do Scenarios all the time

If you are on a high pop server doing Tiers 1 and 2 for a paring that attracts attention, you are less likely to run into a lot of the major problem WAR faces: a massive world that feels empty of players. Empty world means no RvR, no PQs.

Given that large number of servers WAR has, they aren't all high pop servers. So a lot of players are experiencing the same empty world problem.

[korrowan]

if you are on a high pop server you can do Scenarios all the time

If you are on a high pop server doing Tiers 1 and 2 for a paring that attracts attention, you are less likely to run into a lot of the major problem WAR faces: a massive world that feels empty of players. Empty world means no RvR, no PQs.

Given that large number of servers WAR has, they aren't all high pop servers. So a lot of players are experiencing the same empty world problem.

I even stated in a post above that population is the issue.. not the content.. its a PvP game anyway.. why PVE in a PVP game..its like EQ PvP..what the hell is the point?  If you want PVE there are countless games that have vastly superior PVE (WoW, EQ1, EQ2 hell even crappy games like Vanguard have amazing PVE if you can deal with the bugs.  The whole issue is population and you can always reroll on another server.. I work 40+ hours a week, married and play sports 3 nights during the week and Sunday mornings and I can get to mid 20's in a couple weeks easy.  Being bound to a server is your issue not the games.. .everyone who plays has the option to reroll to a higher pop server as the grind in this game is just as fast as AoCs and much less than true PVE based MMOs such as EQ where you were lucky to hit max level in months.

[Nebu]

The population problems are due to the fact that the design is in direct conflict with itself.  You need high population in order to support the PvE game.  In RvR the high population surpasses the capacity of the engine due to doubling the numbers of toons on the screen at any given time.  The scale of the RvR areas does a bit to minimize clustering of players, but now you create expanses so large that travel becomes a concern.  Small areas create latency issues and large areas produce travel issues.  It's like a dog chasing its tail.  

[Lakov_Sanite]

I even stated in a post above that population is the issue.. not the content.. its a PvP game anyway..

Except it's not. The only difference between warhammer and eq/wow is that you have battlegrounds in which you can level and tiny portions of your huge pve zones where you can play back and forth in exchanging keeps.

PVP endgame? what pvp endgame? Once you unlock a capital city it's all back to pve, in fact in warhammer pvp just becomes the cockblock to the pve endgame.  Now is warhammers pvp meaningful? well of course but it's meaningful insofar as to get you to the endgame pve content.

This is exactly what people were doing in beta, kidding themselves. You're levelling up to your mid-twenties doing nothing but scenario's and RvR, great for you! Have you wondered after your 200th tor anroc match though, if maybe there's not as much pvp content as you thought? Oh and good luck in 10 level where the best pvp gear comes from pve.

Mythic made a pve game with meaningful pvp but i wouldn't say for a second warhammer is a pvp game considering the pvp content that they designed is maybe 25% of the gameworld.

[Gurney]

The population problems are due to the fact that the design is in direct conflict with itself.  You need high population in order to support the PvE game.  In RvR the high population surpasses the capacity of the engine do to doubling the numbers of toons on the screen at any given time.  The scale of the RvR areas does a bit to minimize clustering of players, but now you create expanses so large that travel becomes a concern.  Small areas create latency issues and large areas produce travel issues.  It's like a dog chasing its tail.  

The bolded portion should be carved into the forehead of someone at Mythic.  Well and a number of other MMORPGs as well.

[tolakram]

I have discovered a new definition of what went wrong:

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/liveevents/2008WitchingNight.php

Also, because of the special nature of these Public Quests and the rewards that players can earn by participating in them, the quests will reset less frequently than you might be used to. Expect a few hours to pass after a Witching Night Public Quest is completed before you'll be able to try it again.

I have no problem with public quests in RvR zones, but why delay them?  What is Mythic afraid of?

[Nebu]

I have no problem with public quests in RvR zones, but why delay them?  What is Mythic afraid of?

I think they see how brilliant an idea it was in EQ to have players wait hours and even days between encounters.  It made the players feel special!

[Geki]

What's to get? Seems right in line with the recent "cockblock" edition ruleset.

[Righ]

On the other hand, you could look at it as a change mandated by PQ failure and diminishing server populations - in order to funnel enough players into the event to make it viable, they need to make it happen less frequently.

[Nebu]

On the other hand, you could look at it as a change mandated by PQ failure and diminishing server populations - in order to funnel enough players into the event to make it viable, they need to make it happen less frequently.

What's wrong with just letting them repeat the encounter while they have a critical mass present?  I mean, why is letting the players have fun such a bad thing to these people?

[waffel]

I even stated in a post above that population is the issue.. not the content.. its a PvP game anyway.. why PVE in a PVP game..its like EQ PvP..what the hell is the point?  If you want PVE there are countless games that have vastly superior PVE (WoW, EQ1, EQ2 hell even crappy games like Vanguard have amazing PVE if you can deal with the bugs.  The whole issue is population and you can always reroll on another server.. I work 40+ hours a week, married and play sports 3 nights during the week and Sunday mornings and I can get to mid 20's in a couple weeks easy.  Being bound to a server is your issue not the games.. .everyone who plays has the option to reroll to a higher pop server as the grind in this game is just as fast as AoCs and much less than true PVE based MMOs such as EQ where you were lucky to hit max level in months.

How can you possibly say that content isn't the issue when you:
1.) Haven't leveled past 26
2.) Spend ALL your time in game doing the same exact scenarios over, and over, and over again. How can that be fun?

One could argue that if you want instanced PvP, why play Warhammer? I'm pretty sure WoW's instanced BGs are at least bigger and more unique than the same small Warhammer ones. And it's not like the instances in this game even have a point. The only reason to do them is to get the most renown and experience. Thats it. Nobody really cares that much about objectives, or teamwork, or having fun. It's all about checking to see if spending the 15 minutes (or less) netted you a lot of renown and experience and once you start getting raped by 5 BWs after you get magnet'd or fetched you'll realize that everyone talking about how the endgame blows ass is actually right.

And another thing, telling people to reroll on another server is the dumbest advice I've seen. News flash buddy, some of us playing don't need to reroll new T1 and T2 characters non-stop all day like you do. Some of us like to stick with a character, level them up, and experience the 'end game'. Telling me to reroll my 33 shaman because I don't like my server? Eat shit. There is no fucking way in hell I'm grinding all those quests, PQ stages, and dog-shit-taco scenarios over and over and over to get where I'm at now just so I can play on a more populated server. And for what? So the same scenarios I hated the first 100 times I did them can pop more frequently on a new server? Yippe.

[ghost]

The population problems are due to the fact that the design is in direct conflict with itself.  You need high population in order to support the PvE game.  In RvR the high population surpasses the capacity of the engine due to doubling the numbers of toons on the screen at any given time.  The scale of the RvR areas does a bit to minimize clustering of players, but now you create expanses so large that travel becomes a concern.  Small areas create latency issues and large areas produce travel issues.  It's like a dog chasing its tail. 

So what is the fix?  Smaller servers or more powerful comps?  PVE, while most folks here don't seem to like it, does provide a fun "venue", if you will.

[Nebu]

So what is the fix?  Smaller servers or more powerful comps?  PVE, while most folks here don't seem to like it, does provide a fun "venue", if you will.

1) A better game engine?  WoW doesn't seize up like WAR does in small scale.  It's downright crippling when you get a higher number on screen. 

2) Reduce the grind to 40.  The trip to 40 isn't what will retain players, it's what they get to do at 40 that will.

3) You choose: smaller RvR area or insta travel to the hot combat zones. 

4) Class balance.  Fix chaos vs order disparity.  Fix or remove magus abilities.

5) Itemization needs attention yesterday. 

[Geki]

On the other hand, you could look at it as a change mandated by PQ failure and diminishing server populations - in order to funnel enough players into the event to make it viable, they need to make it happen less frequently.

Or in order to keep people from maxing their influence quickly, since the rewards for the witching event are listed as epic influence items.  While half of me thinks it's because they want people to fight in the rvr zone while waiting for the pq to start, the other half says they just want to string it out as long as possible.

[korrowan]

I even stated in a post above that population is the issue.. not the content.. its a PvP game anyway.. why PVE in a PVP game..its like EQ PvP..what the hell is the point?  If you want PVE there are countless games that have vastly superior PVE (WoW, EQ1, EQ2 hell even crappy games like Vanguard have amazing PVE if you can deal with the bugs.  The whole issue is population and you can always reroll on another server.. I work 40+ hours a week, married and play sports 3 nights during the week and Sunday mornings and I can get to mid 20's in a couple weeks easy.  Being bound to a server is your issue not the games.. .everyone who plays has the option to reroll to a higher pop server as the grind in this game is just as fast as AoCs and much less than true PVE based MMOs such as EQ where you were lucky to hit max level in months.

How can you possibly say that content isn't the issue when you:
1.) Haven't leveled past 26
2.) Spend ALL your time in game doing the same exact scenarios over, and over, and over again. How can that be fun?

One could argue that if you want instanced PvP, why play Warhammer? I'm pretty sure WoW's instanced BGs are at least bigger and more unique than the same small Warhammer ones. And it's not like the instances in this game even have a point. The only reason to do them is to get the most renown and experience. Thats it. Nobody really cares that much about objectives, or teamwork, or having fun. It's all about checking to see if spending the 15 minutes (or less) netted you a lot of renown and experience and once you start getting raped by 5 BWs after you get magnet'd or fetched you'll realize that everyone talking about how the endgame blows ass is actually right.

And another thing, telling people to reroll on another server is the dumbest advice I've seen. News flash buddy, some of us playing don't need to reroll new T1 and T2 characters non-stop all day like you do. Some of us like to stick with a character, level them up, and experience the 'end game'. Telling me to reroll my 33 shaman because I don't like my server? Eat shit. There is no fucking way in hell I'm grinding all those quests, PQ stages, and dog-shit-taco scenarios over and over and over to get where I'm at now just so I can play on a more populated server. And for what? So the same scenarios I hated the first 100 times I did them can pop more frequently on a new server? Yippe.

Then quit and stop bitching.  I am sure when I get to T4 it will be fine because I waited for the curve to catch up ..( just like in any release (WoW, EQ1, EQ2, L2, Vanguard... the ones that outleveled everyone are the ones bitching and moaning.. you would think people would learn after a while instead of doing the same thing in every game and then bitching like 12 year old spoiled brats) .. imagine that... waiting for the average players to catch up.. what a crazy concept.  I have no idea why you play this game as you just like to bitch and you apparently have not liked any of it up to this point...

The whole point of playing these games is to... OMG HAVE FUN .. if your not having fun... hit cancel and get on with your life lol.

Also if you would read above there is RvR in this game and that is t1 to t3... its all about server populations.. maybe wait and bitch more about how you hate the game (since you pretty much summed the entire game up in your 12 year old rant) until after the server xfers.. games been out for a whopping what... 6 weeks?  Damn you fuckers are spoiled these days... back in the day EQ was a disaster and no one bitched like you kids do.

[korrowan]

So what is the fix?  Smaller servers or more powerful comps?  PVE, while most folks here don't seem to like it, does provide a fun "venue", if you will.

1) A better game engine?  WoW doesn't seize up like WAR does in small scale.  It's downright crippling when you get a higher number on screen. 

2) Reduce the grind to 40.  The trip to 40 isn't what will retain players, it's what they get to do at 40 that will.

3) You choose: smaller RvR area or insta travel to the hot combat zones. 

4) Class balance.  Fix chaos vs order disparity.  Fix or remove magus abilities.

5) Itemization needs attention yesterday. 

I will never understand this Order vs. Destruction disparity.. I enjoy both sides personally.

[Lakov_Sanite]

The whole point of playing these games is to... OMG HAVE FUN .. if your not having fun... hit cancel and get on with your life lol.

Which is what a large portion of people who bought war did/are doing. Thanks for playing.

[Modern Angel]

Motherfucker, the title of this particular thread is WHAT WENT WRONG.

[Morfiend]

Motherfucker, the title of this particular thread is WHAT WENT WRONG.

LALALALALALALALALA *Fingers in ears*

"You are ALL just playing it wrong".