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Author Topic: State of The Game - Mark Jacobs  (Read 619012 times)
schild
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Reply #70 on: October 17, 2008, 11:59:01 PM

Oh, and by more important matters I mean the first day subs are due for the game. As in the day that's REALLY the most important day for any MMORPG? Ohhhhh, I see.
MarkJacobs
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Mythic Entertainment


Reply #71 on: October 18, 2008, 12:04:08 AM

I don't understand why it matters who said what.

I mean, so what, the guy is a dick. A rich dick with a game that has 10M subs. He can say whatever he wants, he's the king of the castle and his players don't care if he's crapping on the competition. He could say just about anything and not hurt his game. In fact, it's probably in his best interest to shit on other titles/companies in terms of being the BIGGEST MEAN BULLY on the block.

At the same time, he is just another dick on the internet. It doesn't matter if it's a CEO or a QA guy or a CRM or a forum member going around flame warrioring it up. They're still just assholes on the net.

Aren't there more pressing matters than even wasting a breath on that schmuck let alone the written word?

Also: Just because I posted again, let me reiterate - the PvE grind is crap. Kill it with the fire of a thousand suns.

If he had posted on his own forums, I wouldn't have said anything but the comments were in two industry publications which means it's not only fair game but also material that will get back to EA's management and investors.  Both Activision and EA are publicly traded companies and as such, executives of the game need to be a bit more careful about what they say about a competitor.   I don't want to say "I had to say something" because I didn't have to but no matter what I did, it would have had consequences to it.  I know you know the difference between a forum troll on the Vault and the COO of a competitor talking in a major industry publication followed by another member of management talking about the same competitor for an outlet like MTV.  That's what made it so different this time.

Mark
schild
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Reply #72 on: October 18, 2008, 12:06:37 AM

Actually, I'm seeing the lines being blurred here.

He representing Activision/Blizzard. You represent EAMythic.

He trolled you. I mean, I hate to say it but he trolled you. Just like I trolled the ever living shit out of Brad McQuaid. it's just the unfortunately reality of the situation. Suffice it to say, he also seems to have distracted you since we're over here piddledicking about this situation instead of addressing the fact that you're in a forum with a 100+ person guild/200+ person alliance that's on the verge of falling apart because the PvE grind is giving us a "Pool's Closed" sign.
Lum
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Hellfire Games


Reply #73 on: October 18, 2008, 12:07:08 AM

I'm not going to put Bob/Missy/James on the frontline when it comes to responding to a competitor, that can be a very dangerous career move and if someone is going to mess it up, I'd rather it be me than them.

Agreed, that part does make eminent sense. From the outside, I just wonder if a lead designer's random snark about NDAs and bitchiness about not being allowed in a beta (a sentiment I can understand for some odd reason!) at a fan fair and an executive's boilerplate comment about not being affected by churn (I remember an almost identical to the word interview response, I think from Pardo, regarding Age of Conan a month after its ship) calls for such a... vehement response.
Lum
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Hellfire Games


Reply #74 on: October 18, 2008, 12:10:43 AM

he also seems to have distracted you since we're over here piddledicking about this situation instead of addressing the fact that you're in a forum with a 100+ person guild/200+ person alliance that's on the verge of falling apart because the PvE grind is giving us a "Pool's Closed" sign.

Stop trolling the nice man. You made your point already, do you want him to break into the server room tonight and recompile the game servers to boost XP gain or something?
Rasix
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Reply #75 on: October 18, 2008, 12:11:38 AM

Pretty please?

-Rasix
schild
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Reply #76 on: October 18, 2008, 12:12:24 AM

he also seems to have distracted you since we're over here piddledicking about this situation instead of addressing the fact that you're in a forum with a 100+ person guild/200+ person alliance that's on the verge of falling apart because the PvE grind is giving us a "Pool's Closed" sign.
Stop trolling the nice man. You made your point already, do you want him to break into the server room tonight and recompile the game servers to boost XP gain or something?
What, you don't?
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #77 on: October 18, 2008, 12:14:28 AM

No words, only  awesome, for real

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Lum
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Hellfire Games


Reply #78 on: October 18, 2008, 12:14:40 AM

Well, I want angels to descend from heaven and give me strawberry ice cream, too, but I'm not going to hector people on message boards until that happens!
schild
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Reply #79 on: October 18, 2008, 12:17:12 AM

Well, I want angels to descend from heaven and give me strawberry ice cream, too, but I'm not going to hector people on message boards until that happens!

You would if an angel was posting.
Lum
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Hellfire Games


Reply #80 on: October 18, 2008, 12:18:09 AM

You would if an angel was posting.

In that unlikely event, I would probably assume the angel had better things to do than save me a trip to the freezer.
MarkJacobs
Developers
Posts: 109

Mythic Entertainment


Reply #81 on: October 18, 2008, 12:19:47 AM

I'm not going to put Bob/Missy/James on the frontline when it comes to responding to a competitor, that can be a very dangerous career move and if someone is going to mess it up, I'd rather it be me than them.

Agreed, that part does make eminent sense. From the outside, I just wonder if a lead designer's random snark about NDAs and bitchiness about not being allowed in a beta (a sentiment I can understand for some odd reason!) at a fan fair and an executive's boilerplate comment about not being affected by churn (I remember an almost identical to the word interview response, I think from Pardo, regarding Age of Conan a month after its ship) calls for such a... vehement response.

When they made the original comments about AoC it was in an earnings call I believe and I think it was Mike, not Rob (though I could be wrong).  At least in that context, it was almost a required comment given the forum and the time.  Paul's comments were not necessary in that same way and given that we were less than 3 weeks into our launch, could be seen as sending out a message that WAR was already a dead game and that people shouldn't bother playing it.  Mike comments came on August 1st more than 2 months after AoC had shipped and Blizzard had hard data to support that statement.  The way Paul worded his statement was different as was the situation.

Mark
Morfiend
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Reply #82 on: October 18, 2008, 12:21:25 AM

he also seems to have distracted you since we're over here piddledicking about this situation instead of addressing the fact that you're in a forum with a 100+ person guild/200+ person alliance that's on the verge of falling apart because the PvE grind is giving us a "Pool's Closed" sign.

 do you want him to break into the server room tonight and recompile the game servers to boost XP gain or something?

FUCK YES.

We just lost our 20% bonus on Uthuan/Order, and its really bad now. We have like 0 RVR and I can go for hours questing in t3 / t4 and maybe see one other person cause they are all in scenarios.

My 100 person half of Schilds alliance is also breaking apart as people smash their heads in to the PVE grind. They all came on the promise of awesome RVR and are very let down.

MarkJacobs
Developers
Posts: 109

Mythic Entertainment


Reply #83 on: October 18, 2008, 12:28:48 AM

he also seems to have distracted you since we're over here piddledicking about this situation instead of addressing the fact that you're in a forum with a 100+ person guild/200+ person alliance that's on the verge of falling apart because the PvE grind is giving us a "Pool's Closed" sign.

 do you want him to break into the server room tonight and recompile the game servers to boost XP gain or something?

FUCK YES.

We just lost our 20% bonus on Uthuan/Order, and its really bad now. We have like 0 RVR and I can go for hours questing in t3 / t4 and maybe see one other person cause they are all in scenarios.

My 100 person half of Schilds alliance is also breaking apart as people smash their heads in to the PVE grind. They all came on the promise of awesome RVR and are very let down.



What was your server population tonight when you logged in?

So, let me ask you, would you prefer a server type where there are no scenarios and everybody has to open RvR?

Mark
Sjofn
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Reply #84 on: October 18, 2008, 12:30:29 AM

I love overreaction theatre.  Ohhhhh, I see.

God Save the Horn Players
Lantyssa
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Reply #85 on: October 18, 2008, 12:33:56 AM

Edit:  Gah!  Total thread explosian.  This is written 18 posts prior:

Speaking as a gaming plebian, I'd rather see you take the high road.  If something needs to be refuted then give us the facts and let us make that call.  Letting your passion cause you to sink to their level or worse gives what they say more credence.  It may not be right or fair, but it's how people's minds work.  Unfortunately we often care more about how something is said than what is said.

Thanks for listening from an internet nobody.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Morfiend
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Reply #86 on: October 18, 2008, 12:35:45 AM

No I wouldnt Mark, what I want is rewards that give people incentive to RVR more. Right now because of the horrible return on RVR, people are ether in scenarios, or doing quests while waiting for scenarios.

This leads to a feeling of an empty world and no RVR.

I think you need to DRASTICALLY increase quest exp, and RVR exp, right now it is HORRIBLE in RVR. People totally avoide it while leveling up, as its basically a waste of time to any one that feels even slightly like a min/maxer.

You added a bonus to keep taking, and while that is the right step, the diminishing returns and the low amount of exp make it like it wasnt even added. at level 28-30 I can get 12,000 to 16,000 exp every 10 minutes in Tor Anroc. If I went RVRing, I would be extremely lucky to get 10,000 exp in an hour.

People will gravitate to what offers them the best returns. Right now it is Scenarios, and its sucking all life out of the world, and making it a FPS game with a boring PVE lobby.

*edit*

As I told my friend, right now I spend my time 5% RVR, 35% PVE and 60% Scenarios. Thats not what I want. I want 50%+RVR, 30% PVE and 10% Scenarios. I like them, I do. But I didnt sigh up to play Capture the Flag Online (Now with Warhammer skins). In beta there was a lot of RVR all the time cause people didnt worry about leveling, and it was much more fun.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 12:38:10 AM by Morfiend »
Sjofn
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Reply #87 on: October 18, 2008, 12:40:42 AM

So, let me get this straight.  I've got the COO of the major competitor saying things that make it *look* like 1/2 of our players have left (which is ridiculously untrue), talks about our European launch being bad (oh yeah, WoW's launch in NA and Europe was flawless right?)  while his game director spins BS about how the way Blizzard runs its beta shows its confidence in the game (forgetting of course the large internal alpha with paid employees that the games goes through and only then has a short public beta) while our beta, which has the general public in it for years, shows our lack of confidence.  He then goes on to say that "he's thinking of quitting our game" (and by inference, saying that other players might want to as well) and that our interface looks like his (forgetting how many interfaces were done before WoW) and generally pissing on our game and when I respond, I'm the jackass?  I had the following choices:

Actually, I really can't ignore this completely. The bulk of WAR's did NOT have the general public in it, and in fact you couldn't even tell anyone you were even freaking in it. It had EXTRA SEKRIT servers (the Elder crap) even. NDAs within NDAs! And comparing it to Blizzard's alphas makes no sense to me. That's an ALPHA. We're discussing BETAS and their various NDAs. And like it or not, when Blizzard throws open its beta boards for anyone to read while they're still dicking around with stuff, it DOES show enormous confidence in their game, because the consumer (remember us?) gets to see the process and know what's coming down the pipe before making their purchase.

This has always been a problem with Mythic, I knew that when I bought WAR. I had made peace with it because I really, really loved DAoC's RvR and really loved Warhammer's once I got to try it. But I can't say I blame anyone, including people from other companies, for saying a lack of NDA over a crazy tiered NDA system shows a lot of faith in one's product and how it will be recieved by the masses, even when it isn't done yet.

God Save the Horn Players
schild
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Reply #88 on: October 18, 2008, 12:42:44 AM

Quote
What was your server population tonight when you logged in?

So, let me ask you, would you prefer a server type where there are no scenarios and everybody has to open RvR?

Mark

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh man, that is totally missing the point.

That's not the problem. Like, not even a LITTLE BIT. Here, gonna bullet this out so nothing gets lost in the shuffle. That's like the sort of solution Vault readers would think is applicable, but it's not. As such:

Scenarios:
  • The majority of the scenarios suck a big one. They're either too big and you can't use a horse or they're too lopsided to the point that certain powers rule the day (Tor Anroc and knock back, etc). Also, there's simply too many and none of them are really applicable to training for oRvR once you hit 40.
  • I've laid it out in other threads, but as I see it, the scenarios should be - as mentioned - a training ground for the real meet - realm control. As such, cater to that. Also, have a reasonable number. I've come to terms with that number probably being around 3 - 2 - 2 - 1, each representing a tier.
  • The scenarios themselves are another pack of angry bees altogether. Where are the scenarios that mimic realm situations? Attack/Defend a keep, Attack/Defend a Battle Objective, etc. All this Warball/Capture the Flag shit is for the birds. If i wanted that I'd just go back to TF2. Sorry, but it just doesn't cut it, it's bad and lazy design. These scenarios practically write themself, I'm just not seeing how the current ones came to be.
  • It's a natural reaction of the players to join the queue that has the most players at any given time - that being Nordenwatch, Mourkain, Tor Anroc, Serpents Passage - in that order on most of the servers. Not because they don't suck - most of them do, Nordenwatch being the best of the four, none of them really train you for the real endgame.
  • This might hurt: There aren't enough goddamn players on each server to support the current number of scenarios. It's obscene.
  • Having this many scenarios breaks up the populations too much to actively participate in Open RvR and to make that the focus.

Open RvR:
  • Why do you have so many goddamn lakes? For real man, there's just too many. Talk about splitting up the playerbase.
  • A possible solution, GET RID OF MOST OF THEM. Alternatively, why have them be little piddledick zones in each area? Don't you want large scale battles? Why isn't there just one full area in each tier that's just open RvR? The current design is just harebrained and does absolutely nothing but remove players from action. Not to mention the zones are BALLS OUT HUGE.

PvE
  • Sucks. Kill it with Fire.
  • Unfortunately, it provides the best loot since renown gear eats ass and the good sets are nearly impossible to obtain due to keep drops and the structure of bag distribution
  • We're bordering old school horrible EQ design on the loot distribution, if you want people taking part in RvR, stop removing them from it so goddamn much by making them hunt out the best equipment. Why can't players get a piece of Equipment after every scenario? Sure they'll farm it, but who cares, more people PvPing. Why can't everyone in a PQ get an item - A GOOD ITEM - why can't everyone who takes down a keep lord get a bind on pickup fantastic set piece? Just make it worth nothing, so they'll either trash it or keep it - money already means nothing in the game, so the economy can't be hurt by it.

Tip of the damned iceberg here. TIP.
Triforcer
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Reply #89 on: October 18, 2008, 12:44:29 AM

Is it too early for this thread to count as a Christmas miracle? 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
schild
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Reply #90 on: October 18, 2008, 12:44:41 AM

tl;dr

Take actions to keep people from dicking around with PvP, give them the loot they need to be competitive from casual guild grouping and PQs/Keeps - easily acquired - and boost the ever living fuck out of EXP. You don't see people here complaining about the RP distribution, do you? No, because we see it as pissant slow, but reasonable as it's the LONG-TERM goal to really acquire the best the game has to offer. The PvE/EXP grind and crap loot distribution is just getting in the way of, well, everything.
squirrel
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Reply #91 on: October 18, 2008, 12:44:50 AM

he also seems to have distracted you since we're over here piddledicking about this situation instead of addressing the fact that you're in a forum with a 100+ person guild/200+ person alliance that's on the verge of falling apart because the PvE grind is giving us a "Pool's Closed" sign.
Stop trolling the nice man. You made your point already, do you want him to break into the server room tonight and recompile the game servers to boost XP gain or something?
What, you don't?

I Fucking Do. And I'm a Mythic Fanboy.

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
MarkJacobs
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Mythic Entertainment


Reply #92 on: October 18, 2008, 12:46:26 AM

No I wouldnt Mark, what I want is rewards that give people incentive to RVR more. Right now because of the horrible return on RVR, people are ether in scenarios, or doing quests while waiting for scenarios.

This leads to a feeling of an empty world and no RVR.

I think you need to DRASTICALLY increase quest exp, and RVR exp, right now it is HORRIBLE in RVR. People totally avoide it while leveling up, as its basically a waste of time to any one that feels even slightly like a min/maxer.

You added a bonus to keep taking, and while that is the right step, the diminishing returns and the low amount of exp make it like it wasnt even added. at level 28-30 I can get 12,000 to 16,000 exp every 10 minutes in Tor Anroc. If I went RVRing, I would be extremely lucky to get 10,000 exp in an hour.

People will gravitate to what offers them the best returns. Right now it is Scenarios, and its sucking all life out of the world, and making it a FPS game with a boring PVE lobby.

*edit*

As I told my friend, right now I spend my time 5% RVR, 35% PVE and 60% Scenarios. Thats not what I want. I want 50%+RVR, 30% PVE and 10% Scenarios. I like them, I do. But I didnt sigh up to play Capture the Flag Online (Now with Warhammer skins). In beta there was a lot of RVR all the time cause people didnt worry about leveling, and it was much more fun.

I've already said something along those same lines to the guys.  We're working on it but you're right, in beta people weren't worried about leveling so they played open RvR a lot.  That looks like it was quite misleading when it comes to the general populace.  However, there are also a ton of people who are having fun running the scenarios so we have to deal with two very different populations in terms of what they consider fun.  It's why I'm not going to nerf scenario exp. but am willing to raise the rewards substantially for open RvR.  It's just not something we can do overnight and even if we do it, I'm concerned that some people may still stick with scenarios even if the return on open RvR is 2x that of scenarios because they are quicker, safer and more predictable.  It's why the concept of a no scenario server is appealing because that way you know you are playing with the people who only want to open RvR.

Mark
schild
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Reply #93 on: October 18, 2008, 12:51:16 AM

The "No Scenario" concept isn't appealing at all.

It's a forest for the trees issue. Having more than one RvR lake per tier just seperates people from each other. There isn't just a magic fix. Serious shit has to be revised. I don't know if I have to carve it into my arm with a fucking pen knife, but at this point I'm about ready to carve out "TOO FEW CONCURRENT USERS, TOO MANY AREAS FOR THEM TO BE IN 666"
squirrel
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Reply #94 on: October 18, 2008, 12:52:39 AM

It's why the concept of a no scenario server is appealing because that way you know you are playing with the people who only want to open RvR.

Mark

No god no, bad idea. And I hate scenarios. Reward with rewards, don't re-invent your game. Your playerbase is already to spread out both amongst servers and playstyles. Don't introduce DAoC Classic server solutions when you don't have a classic game to do so with. Look, players will go where the rewards are - why do you think my SM "Tronk" has run Mourkain Temple and now Tor Annoc 5,000 times? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE GAME REWARDS - and that's where the people are. Don't make "NEW IMPROVED SERVERS" a month after launch, that's crazy. Reward people for doing what you want them to do for the good of the game. C'mon man, you know this shit cold, don't fold on this kind of problem.

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
MarkJacobs
Developers
Posts: 109

Mythic Entertainment


Reply #95 on: October 18, 2008, 12:53:23 AM

Quote
What was your server population tonight when you logged in?

So, let me ask you, would you prefer a server type where there are no scenarios and everybody has to open RvR?

Mark

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh man, that is totally missing the point.

That's not the problem. Like, not even a LITTLE BIT. Here, gonna bullet this out so nothing gets lost in the shuffle. That's like the sort of solution Vault readers would think is applicable, but it's not. As such:

Scenarios:
  • The majority of the scenarios suck a big one. They're either too big and you can't use a horse or they're too lopsided to the point that certain powers rule the day (Tor Anroc and knock back, etc). Also, there's simply too many and none of them are really applicable to training for oRvR once you hit 40.
  • I've laid it out in other threads, but as I see it, the scenarios should be - as mentioned - a training ground for the real meet - realm control. As such, cater to that. Also, have a reasonable number. I've come to terms with that number probably being around 3 - 2 - 2 - 1, each representing a tier.
  • The scenarios themselves are another pack of angry bees altogether. Where are the scenarios that mimic realm situations? Attack/Defend a keep, Attack/Defend a Battle Objective, etc. All this Warball/Capture the Flag shit is for the birds. If i wanted that I'd just go back to TF2. Sorry, but it just doesn't cut it, it's bad and lazy design. These scenarios practically write themself, I'm just not seeing how the current ones came to be.
  • It's a natural reaction of the players to join the queue that has the most players at any given time - that being Nordenwatch, Mourkain, Tor Anroc, Serpents Passage - in that order on most of the servers. Not because they don't suck - most of them do, Nordenwatch being the best of the four, none of them really train you for the real endgame.
  • This might hurt: There aren't enough goddamn players on each server to support the current number of scenarios. It's obscene.
  • Having this many scenarios breaks up the populations too much to actively participate in Open RvR and to make that the focus.

Open RvR:
  • Why do you have so many goddamn lakes? For real man, there's just too many. Talk about splitting up the playerbase.
  • A possible solution, GET RID OF MOST OF THEM. Alternatively, why have them be little piddledick zones in each area? Don't you want large scale battles? Why isn't there just one full area in each tier that's just open RvR? The current design is just harebrained and does absolutely nothing but remove players from action. Not to mention the zones are BALLS OUT HUGE.

PvE
  • Sucks. Kill it with Fire.
  • Unfortunately, it provides the best loot since renown gear eats ass and the good sets are nearly impossible to obtain due to keep drops and the structure of bag distribution
  • We're bordering old school horrible EQ design on the loot distribution, if you want people taking part in RvR, stop removing them from it so goddamn much by making them hunt out the best equipment. Why can't players get a piece of Equipment after every scenario? Sure they'll farm it, but who cares, more people PvPing. Why can't everyone in a PQ get an item - A GOOD ITEM - why can't everyone who takes down a keep lord get a bind on pickup fantastic set piece? Just make it worth nothing, so they'll either trash it or keep it - money already means nothing in the game, so the economy can't be hurt by it.

Tip of the damned iceberg here. TIP.

I've also suggested a tiered approach to scenarios but my concern is that even if we do that, that in a few weeks people will be complaining that they want to add more scenarios.  The nice thing about a no-scenario server is that again, everybody there wants to RvR without scenarios.  In terms of your other points, we're really looking at all the data for some of them.  In terms of design of the scenarios, I'd love to say that we got lots of data in beta that said to kill the scenarios or that most sucked but we were not hearing that at all.  If we had, we would have cut them out.  If I wasn't afraid to cut classes, we wouldn't have been afraid to cut some scenarios either.  Your point about more scenarios that mimic the open RvR situations is a really good one though and I'll talk to the team about it this weekend.

Mark
squirrel
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Posts: 1767


Reply #96 on: October 18, 2008, 12:55:14 AM

Mark I know it's a wall of text so I'll just re-iterate my above post. A No Scenario server rule set co-existing with your current rule-set will kill your game. Read up for why. You know better. Drive the playerbase with rewards and adjust your environments to allow that to happen. Do Not Fracture Your Base More. Really - BAD IDEA.

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
schild
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Reply #97 on: October 18, 2008, 12:57:09 AM

People will always complain. That's part of the job. But frankly, you want people to RvR, realm control, flipping keeps, flipping BOs, etc etc etc. All that hot shit. Right now, at least at tier 3 and 4, it's just a wasteland of depression and angst. Maybe with more fun scenarios and less of these shitass once it wouldn't be so bad. But honestly, I think the biggest concern of all is that PvE is just soul-suckingly horrible and loot distribution for PvP is all of just about dick and that even then, wandering into an RvR Lake won't yield any competition because there's just so goddamn many of them. WAY TOO MANY.

Really, there's too much of everything. Consolidate the game itself, not the servers. Spreading people out in this game sucks the soul directly the hell out.

Quote
Then I noticed Mark Jacobs was bashing *me* along with some plain LIES on the Vault. He's definitely out of his mind.

Or maybe what I write is too explicit and he'd like that some things are better unsaid.

Despite my yelling at Mark, I'm not too busy that I can't remind you that you're still the mayor of crazytown.
MarkJacobs
Developers
Posts: 109

Mythic Entertainment


Reply #98 on: October 18, 2008, 12:59:03 AM

It's why the concept of a no scenario server is appealing because that way you know you are playing with the people who only want to open RvR.

Mark

No god no, bad idea. And I hate scenarios. Reward with rewards, don't re-invent your game. Your playerbase is already to spread out both amongst servers and playstyles. Don't introduce DAoC Classic server solutions when you don't have a classic game to do so with. Look, players will go where the rewards are - why do you think my SM "Tronk" has run Mourkain Temple and now Tor Annoc 5,000 times? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE GAME REWARDS - and that's where the people are. Don't make "NEW IMPROVED SERVERS" a month after launch, that's crazy. Reward people for doing what you want them to do for the good of the game. C'mon man, you know this shit cold, don't fold on this kind of problem.

LOL, not folding but I have to wonder if what we are seeing is a split between the DAoC/SB/etc. type of RvR player and the MMO newbie players who came from WoW.  I think it is entirely possible that these groups might have some issues being on the same server.  What I'm beginning to think is that a large percentage of the WoW players simply want to play in the same way that they play in WoW and may not be open to the true open RvR style.  I'm not saying we are going to do it but I have to ask myself if that is a possibility?  We are going to significantly up the rewards first but I also want to be prepared for the possibility that many of the players will love WAR as long as they can run scenarios as much as they want.

Do you think I'm really offbase about this?

Mark
nefar
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Reply #99 on: October 18, 2008, 01:00:58 AM



What was your server population tonight when you logged in?

So, let me ask you, would you prefer a server type where there are no scenarios and everybody has to open RvR?

Mark
[/quote]


I play on this server as well on order.

Quite honestly I would prefer a no scenario server, I loathe these scenarios in fact they seriously make me nauseous just thinking I have to play them. I signed up for siege warfare dammit not "wow / fps" chase your tail battlegrounds.   The xp gain in scenarios is so ungodly high that it has done nothing but make the rest of the game a ghost town and quite honestly has me ready to hit the cancel button.

When I signed up I was thinking of the old DAOC days when we would be battling for hours taking and defending keeps. Keeps that would actually help the faction out and served a purpose, we would also receive  good gains for rp/xp for our time.  I have many fond memories of relic raids, massive outdoor battles, and great times in the battle grounds. Battlegrounds that actually prepared you for the end game job of siege, not chase some damn fool with a bauble or some such nonsense.  With War I am forced into a FPS/Wow BG system to get any type of decent gains, a customer base that can care less about keep sieges,   rewards that I can completely care less about.   
schild
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Reply #100 on: October 18, 2008, 01:01:58 AM

Uhhhhh. Yes, we do think you're offbase.

Your PvE sucks ass compared to WoW. And their PvP sucks ass compared to your title. What's not clear about this? Getting rid of scenarios is not playing to your strength, it's folding to people that'll probably walk when Wrath comes out and you'll be left with barren Kneejerk Reaction  No Scenario Servers.

Even the most mouthbreathiest of players are going to get tired of the scenarios by the time they hit tier 4 by the way. When only one or two pops and their horribly boring or horribly lopsided and favor certain player types, it's going to fragment shit even more.
squirrel
Contributor
Posts: 1767


Reply #101 on: October 18, 2008, 01:05:53 AM

It's why the concept of a no scenario server is appealing because that way you know you are playing with the people who only want to open RvR.

Mark

No god no, bad idea. And I hate scenarios. Reward with rewards, don't re-invent your game. Your playerbase is already to spread out both amongst servers and playstyles. Don't introduce DAoC Classic server solutions when you don't have a classic game to do so with. Look, players will go where the rewards are - why do you think my SM "Tronk" has run Mourkain Temple and now Tor Annoc 5,000 times? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE GAME REWARDS - and that's where the people are. Don't make "NEW IMPROVED SERVERS" a month after launch, that's crazy. Reward people for doing what you want them to do for the good of the game. C'mon man, you know this shit cold, don't fold on this kind of problem.

LOL, not folding but I have to wonder if what we are seeing is a split between the DAoC/SB/etc. type of RvR player and the MMO newbie players who came from WoW.  I think it is entirely possible that these groups might have some issues being on the same server.  What I'm beginning to think is that a large percentage of the WoW players simply want to play in the same way that they play in WoW and may not be open to the true open RvR style.  I'm not saying we are going to do it but I have to ask myself if that is a possibility?  We are going to significantly up the rewards first but I also want to be prepared for the possibility that many of the players will love WAR as long as they can run scenarios as much as they want.

Do you think I'm really offbase about this?

Mark

Honestly yes I do. Really WAY OFF BASE. That's just my opinion but here's why:

* Open RvR is your (and the games) forte. It's awesome. It's fun and challenging and exciting and nirvana type shit.
* Scenarios play a important role in transitioning some users from 'instanced' pvp to 'world' pvp - this is useful
* Players will change their behavior based on rewards. WoW BG players will start to do Arena's when the gear differential forces them to.

Point being, you can keep scenarios and still have RvR as your focus, if scenarios are the LEAD IN to world RVR. Right now they're the most effective way of getting ahead in the game bar none. That's crazy.

New server rule sets at this point are a bad idea - i'd write out why but it would be a long diatribe, suffice to say it's not the solution and I think you know that.

EDIT: I really think you guys are 80% there - "NO SCENARIO" servers just force a reset across your playerbase that will only hurt. Instead, guide us to Open RvR through rewards. You can't believe that WoW Noobs new how to Raid before WoW? But they learned. They'll learn here too, but only if you don't fuck it up.

And HRose - STFU. Seriously dude, we know. WE KNOW
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 01:10:59 AM by squirrel »

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
schild
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Reply #102 on: October 18, 2008, 01:06:25 AM

Despite my yelling at Mark, I'm not too busy that I can't remind you that you're still the mayor of crazytown.
Because it's not about *you* that he's spreading lies.

He continues to say I create accounts on the forums where he posts when there isn't a single real case to prove it true. Then goes on to attack me personally while claiming I do the same with him.

Gee, I can't come up with a solution for you other than to like, ignore mythic games and to stop magically appearing whenever Mark shows up. Now go away, don't bugger up this thread. I'm too frothy to deal with you right now.
nefar
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Reply #103 on: October 18, 2008, 01:14:33 AM

Quote

 What I'm beginning to think is that a large percentage of the WoW players simply want to play in the same way that they play in WoW and may not be open to the true open RvR style.

Mark

Ok, come on now. You going to tell me that the scenarios were not designed to cater to the wow masses?  I would find that extremely hard to believe.
Sjofn
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Posts: 8286

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Reply #104 on: October 18, 2008, 01:15:29 AM

LOL.  Was that you posting under a different name on the Vault Hrose?  I thought it was and was hoping that my statement would draw you out.  That post (from a new member) was a link to the Cesspit extolling the virtues of Hrose's writing and how insightful, positive and illuminating it was.  My comment back was simply "Alabieno = Hrose" and that he has been bashing Mythic and I for years.  I also went on to say that Hrose was at times intelligent but that when we didn't agree with him, his posts turned negative and personal.  Another poster linked to here and one of Hrose's comments about how I abused the community.

Now, what part of what I said wasn't true?

Mark

wtf

 why so serious?

God Save the Horn Players
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