Dragon Age

[Zane0]

"Stopping the blight" was a very restrictive story in a lot of ways. In fact, I don't think the origin stories ever made up for the decades-old tripartite formula they threw at you as a result. I too have misgivings about the direction of DA2, but its proposed plotting certainly isn't one of them. It actually sounds pretty neat.

[Paelos]

So we get to find out what the Grey Wardens do in all those years between Blights. My guess is, they roam the countryside, leaping from life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping that their next leap will be the leap home.

[Segoris]

Oh, boy.

It truly is a sad tale as they can't have a life. All they do is live for someone else's life. Righting their wrongs. Fighting their fights. I hear they even feel like they're Don Quixote sometimes.

[Sky]

So we get to find out what the Grey Wardens do in all those years between Blights. My guess is, they roam the countryside, leaping from life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping that their next leap will be the leap home.

Or finding dusty old whats-its for batty old broads while on break from being a part-time exterminator for hire.

[Ingmar]

Why are we assuming the next game's main character will be a Grey Warden?

[Sjofn]

Oh, boy.

It truly is a sad tale as they can't have a life. All they do is live for someone else's life. Righting their wrongs. Fighting their fights. I hear they even feel like they're Don Quixote sometimes.

Way to get Impossible Dream stuck in my head. WAY TO GO.

[Paelos]

Why are we assuming the next game's main character will be a Grey Warden?

It's a solid question. All they say about Hawke is that he's the Champion of Kirkwall (whatever the hell that entails). So he could be just some random asskicker in the Dragon Age universe. To which I say, WTF? In other sequels like Mass Effect you went from being Shepard to Shepard; in KOTOR you went from being a Jedi to another Jedi, even if it wasn't the same one; now I'm going from Elf/Dwarf/Human Grey Warden to some human dude?

It's constraining for the simple point that they didn't want to pay voice actors. This wasn't a fun game decision. Also, breaking away from the Grey Wardens takes away from all the setup atmosphere you had in the previous game. It costs them nothing to make him one to tie things together with your previous experiences.

[Sjofn]

I dunno about that, I feel like making him be a Grey Warden makes it a lot more constraining on them, given it sounds like their downtime is to Remain Vigilant. Which is probably pretty boring most of the time, and doesn't give you a good excuse to go fucking around in some country's political games. The shit you were doing during THE BLIGHT was out of necessity but I get the impression it's not really what Grey Wardens are supposed to do (unless they have to, because of a Blight, blah blah).

The thing linking the two games is Thedas, really, not necessarily Grey Wardens. I also don't know if there's much more to learn about Grey Wardens, but there's plenty more to learn about Thedas. I don't need to be a Grey Warden to learn that.

[Paelos]

Soldier's Peak gives a pretty fair impression that Grey Wardens do fuck around in politics occasionally.

[Fabricated]

A suitable story for a new Dragon Age game in my opinion would be a political intrigue story involving all of the countries that get mentioned but never shown in DA:O. Basically you could reverse the focus of the DA:O story and have a great game: have whatever is left of the Blight be a sidestory that needs to be resolved before you get to the meat which is the political infighting. Having the main badguy not be some ridiculous corporeal form of evil would be cool.

[Sjofn]

Soldier's Peak gives a pretty fair impression that Grey Wardens do fuck around in politics occasionally.

And get kicked the fuck out of their country for it.


EDIT: Shit, there's even dialogue options that are all "THIS ISN'T WHAT WARDENS DOOOOOO"

[Paelos]

Yeah, but Wardens have been around for 5 Blights that encompass something like 1200 years. Wouldn't you hate to be one of the Wardens in the middle between a blight? You go in the deep roads, shorten your life, and for what? So you can say, "Hey at least we passed along this messed up tradition?"

I think a lot of Wardens would want to go rogue and start doing something else when they realized the Blight's not coming.

[tmp]

From the info so far it appears the new game is set with world on brink of war (no details who with whom), Hawke is somehow lynchpin of all that, and the story is retrospection starting from the sacking of Lothering by the Blight (the one player defeated in the first game) and arriving to conclusion 10 years later, with the player deciding exactly how the events were shaped to arrive to that point.

The Game Informer has interactive map up, with number of places which may be cock-tease about what gets shown in the new game. List includes Kirkwall (duh), the capital of Orlais, the capital of Tevinter, Denerim, Orzammar, long destroyed capital of the Dalish Elves, some cut-throat island off the coast of Antiva and Par Vollen, home island of the Qunari.

[Velorath]

Why are we assuming the next game's main character will be a Grey Warden?

It's a solid question. All they say about Hawke is that he's the Champion of Kirkwall (whatever the hell that entails). So he could be just some random asskicker in the Dragon Age universe. To which I say, WTF? In other sequels like Mass Effect you went from being Shepard to Shepard; in KOTOR you went from being a Jedi to another Jedi, even if it wasn't the same one; now I'm going from Elf/Dwarf/Human Grey Warden to some human dude?

It's constraining for the simple point that they didn't want to pay voice actors. This wasn't a fun game decision. Also, breaking away from the Grey Wardens takes away from all the setup atmosphere you had in the previous game. It costs them nothing to make him one to tie things together with your previous experiences.

Your point seems to be a bit of a contradiction.  In essence it sounds like you're saying it's constraining because you aren't doing the exact same thing as the last game, which to me sounds like the opposite of constraining.

[Paelos]

It's constraining because they taking the options for your character out of the game beyond simply choosing a face. The rest of it is just going in a different direction I think is stupid, and has no connection to the previous game at all.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Can we not fucking kid ourselves here? Dragon age:origins had all the choices of quarter.

werewolves/elves
kill old witch/don't(which apparently doesn't even matter cause she's back in the sequal)
golems/dwarves
mages/templars

etc etc. I had fun with dragon age but all this freedom of choice is just bullshit, all it changed were what pixels you got in the final battle and the nice little slideshow at the end.

[rk47]

Can we not fucking kid ourselves here? Dragon age:origins had all the choices of quarter.

werewolves/elves
kill old witch/don't(which apparently doesn't even matter cause she's back in the sequal)
golems/dwarves
mages/templars

etc etc. I had fun with dragon age but all this freedom of choice is just bullshit, all it changed were what pixels you got in the final battle and the nice little slideshow at the end.

You mean the freedom to enjoy multiple origins playthroughs and seeing different sidequest tied to your origin didn't add much to the game? I thought that was the best part.

[Paelos]

You mean the freedom to enjoy multiple origins playthroughs and seeing different sidequest tied to your origin didn't add much to the game? I thought that was the best part.

Yeah he sort of just glossed over that part. 

[Sjofn]

It's understandable if he played a Dalish elf. I definitely got the sense the Dalish origin was last and least.  It's like ... the Dalish clan (which isn't even YOUR clan) isn't quite as bitchy at you. And that's about it, any other elf-related program activities overlapped with the city elves because they all look the same to humans.  

My Dalish elf dude was hot, though.



EDIT: Oh wait, there was that five second "Aw, that sucks. Now we'll forget all about it" moment when your camp gets ambushed by shrieks. Clearly a fully developed origin there.

[tmp]

The rest of it is just going in a different direction I think is stupid, and has no connection to the previous game at all.

Hmm, aside from happening in the same world, during the same time, and having the same characters continue to play their roles... yeah, no connection at all.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Oh the little origin stories were nice but how much did they affect the game proper? a line or two of dialogue?

There was a lot of opportunity to have actually story progression beyond your origin stories but none of it was actually explored. it was very much an mmo feel in the "here is your starting area. Once you hit level 5 you can travel and do all the same quests as the other races, enjoy"

[rk47]

Oh the little origin stories were nice but how much did they affect the game proper? a line or two of dialogue?

There was a lot of opportunity to have actually story progression beyond your origin stories but none of it was actually explored. it was very much an mmo feel in the "here is your starting area. Once you hit level 5 you can travel and do all the same quests as the other races, enjoy"

Once Hitler is level 20 and saved the Princess, he gets to be unofficially crowned as the King of Ferelden and approved the execution of Alistair, the bastard beach boy prince.

[Merusk]

So you're bitching you couldn't change the narrative.  Yeah, how dare it not be a REAL RPG and provide a team of coders to allow you to deviate from the provided story line.  What if I wanted to just run off and forget about the Blight and Grey Wardens once they were all dead?!  There's no choice in this game!   

[Lakov_Sanite]

What I'm saying is that the first game didn't have all that much difference to it beyond actual playstyle (classes) some flavor text and different origins but maybe 10% of the story was different depending on your choices. The second game is just not going to bother with much of that facade and whether this is a good or bad thing I leave up to others.  Just don't kid yourself that the first one was some paragon of storytelling.

[Merusk]

And I'm saying you're being deliberately obtuse, or possibly a fool.   Just how many RPGs let you vary any part of the story at all?  Even 10% and primarily cosmetic choices are nice after years of follow-the-rails with no change whatsoever.  Was there some hidden alternate storyline I missed in The Witcher, ME, ME2, BG, BG2, Planescape and all the other RPGs I've played back to Eye of the Beholder? 

It's a computer RPG. There's no deviation from the Storyline other than a few cut scenes and maybe a "Good" "Evil" and "Neutral" ending.  Shocker!

[tmp]

In semi-related news, apparently if you happen to be anywhere near San Diego, you can play Dragon Age 2 today.

[Lakov_Sanite]

And I'm saying you're being deliberately obtuse, or possibly a fool.   Just how many RPGs let you vary any part of the story at all?  Even 10% and primarily cosmetic choices are nice after years of follow-the-rails with no change whatsoever.  Was there some hidden alternate storyline I missed in The Witcher, ME, ME2, BG, BG2, Planescape and all the other RPGs I've played back to Eye of the Beholder? 

It's a computer RPG. There's no deviation from the Storyline other than a few cut scenes and maybe a "Good" "Evil" and "Neutral" ending.  Shocker!

No shit captain obvious....the first one didn't have much real variation so why get all bent out of shape that the second one has a little less?

Reading comprehension is hard.

[Reg]

It sounds to me like you want Dragon Age to be more of a sandbox game with freeform quests like Fallout 3 was. Bioware hasn't done a game like that since Baldur's Gate 1. I doubt they have any plans ever to go back to doing that kind of game.

[FatuousTwat]

Dialogue has been simplified so that you only have up to three choices. Each choice is represented by an icon that indicates whether or it's a "good," "nasty," or "badass" choice. Good choices are represented by an olive branch, nasty by a Greek comedy mask, and badass by a red fist.


 

[Tebonas]

Yay, dumbing down to get more mass appeal. Because there aren't enough dumb games out there already. 

[caladein]

But you are correct that primarily the dialogue wheel is just a better way to organize our choices. There are some extra ways that your dialogue can change, as well, based on what Craig said-- but, again, we're likely to talk more about that in the future.

...

I imagine that's the only dialogue he saw? The demo is pretty action-packed and there's only the one conversation-- which, yes, has three options in it. As has been said elsewhere in this thread, however, that's not all we're limited to.

(emphasis mine, source)

So, yes, they're adding context marks and changing the layout, but no, there can be more than three choices.  Really, it just looks like an extension of the [Lie] marks we already see in dialogue trees along with an interface change.

[Paelos]

I don't care if there are 10 options, that's still ridiculous to actually put the intent next to the text, unless it's the same text with different intonations to dictate the dialogue flow. It reinforces my earlier point of not even bothering with text at all.

1 - Kiss my ass! (aggressive)
2 - Kiss my ass. (sarcastic)
3 - Kiss my ass? (questioning)

[tmp]

I don't care if there are 10 options, that's still ridiculous to actually put the intent next to the text, unless it's the same text with different intonations to dictate the dialogue flow. It reinforces my earlier point of not even bothering with text at all.

Just as counter point to that, i really can't tell if this is supposed to be green, or if you're raging for real.

[Sky]

(Interrogative) Are you an Elcor possibly?

[Paelos]

I don't care if there are 10 options, that's still ridiculous to actually put the intent next to the text, unless it's the same text with different intonations to dictate the dialogue flow. It reinforces my earlier point of not even bothering with text at all.

Just as counter point to that, i really can't tell if this is supposed to be green, or if you're raging for real.

Respond:

1 - Badass
2 - Neutral
3 - Goody-Gooderson