Dragon Age

[tmp]

2. Because if at some point you'd like to return to the main game world (..)

But that's awfully big and theoretical "if". Srsly, with the expansion bolting something like 10 extra levels onto the core game, what do you imagine people are going to be returning to the core game for?

[caladein]

Here's something really worth complaining about re: importing:

The 2 special class abilities you can get from Watcher's Keep don't import into the game, but they do hang around sort of - you'll still have icons on your bar, but they'll have no descriptions and when you try to use them, you'll go through the animation but nothing will happen.  

It would have been better to just strip them off the character entirely rather than leave the weird vestigial abilities there on the skills page and the task bar.

They said the abilities would be available so I just chalk that up as a bug.

"Class Name Not Found" or whatever it says in the skills pane did go quite well with having my character show up naked off the bat (I was using Blood Dragon Armor).

[eldaec]

Exaggerating to make a point, of course.

But your basic argument appears to be "well they already made some continuity mistakes, so who cares if they make more?" Me, for one. Letting me wander off to do stuff that technically happens afterwards and then come back and kill the archdemon, possibly even sacrificing myself to do so, would bother me for more or less the same reason (but obviously not to the same degree) that adding a Smurf-filled moon base would. It just makes no sense.

Your character inexplicably gaining a bunch of random stuff / stats / talent purchases (in your Origins save) makes less sense that him inexplicably reappearing later after he died without even a "Whelp, I got better"...?  That seems to be a very fine distinction, when you could just not back-revision your character if it bugs you that much.  And, you know, random shit appearing in your inventory for no reason would be such a departure from the norm.

You're arguing against a position I'm not taking - I agree that the import-a-character-who-died thing (where is medieval Cerberus to rebuild us?) is also pretty retarded, but it is a pretty obvious business decision to let people play the character they came in with in an expansion. In any case, personally I won't be importing any characters that make the sacrifice, those guys are dead.

I have no problem with Bioware letting other people who are not me play awakenings with characters what is dead.

My only issue is they don't give the option let the Orlesian Warden play through in a world defined by the choices of the dead warden.

[Sheepherder]

...It would have been better to just strip them off the character entirely rather than leave the weird vestigial abilities there on the skills page and the task bar.

They said the abilities would be available so I just chalk that up as a bug.

"Class Name Not Found" or whatever it says in the skills pane did go quite well with having my character show up naked off the bat (I was using Blood Dragon Armor).

Translation: archive entries that the save used to point at no longer exist, because we generated a new master game data archive without these entries.

That they expect some player generated mods to port to Awakenings is another good indicator that they haven't actually done anything to the game that would cause old game data to parse badly.  Which means they probably broke compatibility because they wanted to.  The simple explanation for which would be that they still want to sell their DLC stuff for Origins, but being able to drop a newly-minted level 18 Orlesian Warden character into an Origins game with starting gear that dwarfs their DLC stuff would have made that problematic.

Which makes me wonder why they thought combining mudflation and milking DLC was a good idea for a single player game.

[Daeven]

Because here at Crazy Eddies all of our inventory is priced to go Go GO! Shop now and save!

* First 100 orders get a free toaster. All sales final.

[Merusk]

Which makes me wonder why they thought combining mudflation and milking DLC was a good idea for a single player game.

Why are you asking game theory questions of an economics decision?

[Sheepherder]

Because if I wanted economics to dictate how the game runs I'd download a copy of Free Enterprise.

[Sjofn]

I actually finished this game! That never EVER fuckin' happens. I do not finish RPGs. But I did it! Whee! And I will probably play it a few more times (maybe not finish it all the way, but definitely try some new characters and see how far I get).

On the other hand, I am pretty disinterested in the expansion, just because I don't WANT new characters, I want my awesome old characters. I think I liked Oghren better than a lot of people, but he's not enough. D:

[Engels]

Eh, the expansion isn't so bad. There is some really good writing, specially in the casual travel conversations.

[tmp]

The new characters ain't bad, either.

"Just because you're the Commander doesn't mean you get to... command, nevermind."

[Sjofn]

Yeah, I think I am probably just being a fuss for no reason.

[Lantyssa]

It doesn't interest me in the least, either, although I have yet to finish.  Which is a rarity for me and RPGs.

[Raguel]

I was upset that the only returning character was Oghren, but on reflection I realized with the exception of one character their story arcs are pretty much done. I'd like to see them in at least in a cameo role though.

[Ollie]

Not to be spoilerific, but you do get to enjoy a few cameos, if that's any consolation.

Still, I'm finding myself wandering off while trying to play for some reason. Maybe it's the weight of the original dragging Awakening down. By all accounts I should be enjoying this a lot more than I am.

[Goreschach]

Not paying near new game price for a 10 hour expansion to a 60 hour game. Will wait for $5 steam sale.

[Velorath]

Not paying near new game price for a 10 hour expansion to a 60 hour game. Will wait for $5 steam sale.

That's right, take a stand against those bastards offering 10 15-20 hours of content for $40.

In all seriousness though, I just started the expansion a few days ago, and I'm actually liking this module a bit more than the original.  I think it's largely because it's not trying to tell some epic, end-of-the-world-threat story (although maybe it gets to that point eventually).

[tmp]

I like the "be lord arl of your own domain lite" bits they put in the expansion, but the gut punch the damn thing has just served me yesterday after initiating the grand finale was bit too much. Perhaps because it stretches belief it'd happen so swift.

Still, it makes the ultimate slog a grim and bitter endeavour that feels a little like the final to KotOR2 (even down to the 'oh shi- we ran out of time to put everything we wanted in' part ) so i'm digging it.

edit: oh and my accumulated playtime is currently at 35 hours with number of side-quests unresolved and/or untouched (compared to 100 hours for the original played in similar manner) but then i prefer to walk rather than run around most of the time so that inflates the times by quite a bit.

[koro]

Not paying near new game price for a 10 hour expansion to a 60 hour game. Will wait for $5 steam sale.

That's right, take a stand against those bastards offering 10 15-20 hours of content for $40.

According to my friends who can hardly be considered hardcore, it's closer to 10-12 hours of content, with most quests done and not skipping dialogue. That is, unless you like to crawl everywhere like tmp.

Between that, the plethora of bugs they've run into, and the fact that I'm currently sitting on an already-huge gaming backlog (working on finishing up a new Mass Effect 1 playthrough so I can get to the ME2 I just bought), I'm probably going to wait for it to drop in price.

[Tebonas]

In one zone I ran across a river at the wrong point and got a cutscene I shouldn't yet have. The effect was that I never got the cutscenes prior to that and a person that should have appeared didn't appear, blocking me from a whole zone, at least one quest I couldn't complete and one of the companion.

I had to restard at the beginning of the zone and replay around an hour again...

[eldaec]

Personally I prefer my expansions to be shorter but have more set pieces and unique shit per hour.


The basic game will have tired out my interest plain-common-or-garden-Dragon-Age, I want expansions to concetrate on showing new cool stuff, not mounting up hours of average encounters - having more vanilla in the basic game where you are learning what the characters and parties can do makes sense. By the time we get to an expansion I've done all that and don't need it again.

tl;dr : 15 hours/$40 is fine stop whining.

[Raguel]

In one zone I ran across a river at the wrong point and got a cutscene I shouldn't yet have. The effect was that I never got the cutscenes prior to that and a person that should have appeared didn't appear, blocking me from a whole zone, at least one quest I couldn't complete and one of the companion.

I had to restard at the beginning of the zone and replay around an hour again...

This worries me, because I'm sure I'm near the end and I have no idea of what you're talking about. Can you elaborate (in this or the other thread)?

[Morfiend]

The new characters ain't bad, either.

"Just because you're the Commander doesn't mean you get to... command, nevermind."

Is it me, or is that new mage basically Allister? Same voice actor even.

[Sjofn]

So I finished a dudely playthrough and holy shit are the two chick love interests horrible in comparison to the dude ones. Morrigan and Leliana are fucking crazy to the point my poor elf fella went crying into the arms of Zevran. Leliana actually chilled my blood when she did nothing but laugh after I told her watching me sleep was fucking creepy. 

I mean, I guess part of it is that I am not actually interested in ladies anyway, so perhaps I was less tolerant of their FUCKING CRAZY, but yow. I can now see why so many of my dudefriends wished they could sex up Wynne.

[Ollie]

I can now see why so many of my dudefriends wished they could sex up Wynne.

Wynne has matronly charm, no question about it. If you don't mind the pedagogue overtures, I can certainly see the appeal.

[Engels]

Makes me wonder if Bioware did this on purpose, knowing full well that the average RPG gamer is gonna put up with all sorts of crazy just to git sum, or if the writers themselves think Morrigan/Leilana are somehow the norm, and that men-kind are just stuck in a scilla&caribdes choice in life.

[Sjofn]

Well, it's sort of nice having love interests that are actually interesting instead of boring blandy-pantses, I just find the lady love interests to be um. Terrifying.

I totally found myself wishing I had a "ONCE! I FUCKED HER ONCE!" conversation option. I don't know what I did to get Morrigan's approval so high so fast, but IMMEDIATELY after she leapt upon my dick I was getting lectured by Wynne about the Nature of Love and Leliana was all quizzing me about how serious it was and Morrigan was all TAKE THIS RING SO I CAN KEEP TABS ON YOU ( ) and it was CRAZY.

[Lantyssa]

I mean, I guess part of it is that I am not actually interested in ladies anyway, so perhaps I was less tolerant of their FUCKING CRAZY, but yow. I can now see why so many of my dudefriends wished they could sex up Wynne.

No, it's not you.  The choices were terrible.  I had a lot of trouble making it through Leliana's dialog to start something.  I seriously almost went with Alistair, I just couldn't quite bring myself to do it.

And while I like Morrigan's take on things, she seems to go all weird if you make it into an actual relationship.  I guess I dodged a bullet there since I couldn't sex her up.

[Ollie]

And while I like Morrigan's take on things, she seems to go all weird if you make it into an actual relationship.  I guess I dodged a bullet there since I couldn't sex her up.

Yup, Morrigan isn't too keen on sentimentality. In her wacky Darwinian ethos love is for the weak, so she won't actually do the naughty with you once you progress past mere fuckbuddies. You can pretty much nail her right after Ostagar, though, which might be appealing to some I guess. But move into love territory, and she'll kick your sorry tuckus to the curb.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Honestly? While the characters in DA were quirky and interesting, they weren't exactly realistic, more like charicatures.

[Tuncal]

Honestly? While the characters in DA were quirky and interesting, they weren't exactly realistic, more like charicatures.

That's an accusation you can level at any RPG or any computer game, really. Can you name me a few realistic characters from other games? At least DA's are a thousand times better than ME2's, for example.

[Ollie]

Honestly? While the characters in DA were quirky and interesting, they weren't exactly realistic, more like charicatures.

Well, there's not a whole lot on offer, even if one looks at interactive entertainment across the board. It's not like the medium has been utilized much beyond facile entertainment, and something like characterisation naturally follows suit. Looking at the scope of things, it's pretty much either the Bioware Experience^tm or Master Chief. Take your pick, really.

Melodramatic run-of-the-mill fantasy often relies on archetypal characters, which might not stand closer scrutiny – especially in a videogame, where the characters' main function is to move the action along. At least Bioware tries to instil a sense of depth to their characters, even if they sometimes merely succeed in pandering to tired stereotypes (see Leliana and shoes).

[Sjofn]

To be clear, I liked Morrigan and Leliana fine as characters, they were just both really ... um ... bad girlfriends. Leliana was too UR GIFT FROM TEH MAEKR + I WATCH U SLEEP for me, and Morrigan was all WE'RE JUST FUCKING RIGHT BY THE WAY I AM MORE POSSESSIVE AND JEALOUS THAN ANY OF THE OTHER CHARACTERS. Zevran had the best "make a choice" talk for my personal tastes (why yes, everything descending into middle school jealousy fits WOULD make adventuring awkward!). I actually dumped Morrigan before she could start that shit, the ring thing made me - I mean my character - think, "This is way too much crazy for me."

On the other hand, poor Leliana gets dumped in every goddamn game I have played, because I keep accidentally flipping her lesbian switch, and she takes it like a champ every time. It took me forever to get her to actually be interested in my elf boy, but she has the hots for all my ladies for some reason, so she gets the "it's not you, it's me" talk a lot.

[tmp]

Wynne has matronly charm, no question about it. If you don't mind the pedagogue overtures, I can certainly see the appeal.

She also has magical bosom.

I didn't have much issue with the "romantic" interests -- Morrigan has a hidden agenda and certain views on the best ways to manipulate men into doing her biddings, and Leliana makes it very obvious (if unintentionally) she's very self-centered and her empathy is minimal at best. They may not be the types you'd want to introduce to your parents as the future spouse but the writing for them was solid and enjoyable. And they aren't exactly unrealistic, either. Sane, non-quirky characters seem to basically get the "zomg boring snoozefest" label -- vide the Jacobs, Carths and Bao-Durs, so i can see why they'd try to stay away from these.

[Sjofn]

I just don't feel the choices are "boring-ass Carth" and "fucking insane" and that's it. Neither Zevran nor Alistair were boring, but neither one made me fear for my dog's life if I decided to break up with them either.

[Ingmar]

Well, small sample size. If you widen the net to include all Bioware games there's a pretty wide range of female romance options, really; none of the female romance options in ME2 are much like either Leliana or Morrigan (or Carth for that matter.) Although Jack *is* fucking insane, I guess. But in a different way! Ditto the 3 in BG2.