Dragon Age

[Reg]

/shrug

My standards are just fine. You're weird.

[Azazel]

So without looking at the exact spoilers, the game's ending is something akin to this?:

THE END

for now...?
(Buy our upcoming DLC!)

[Tannhauser]

Regarding the ending...

[caladein]

Not that it matters, the story was a cliche mess and I only stuck with it because I thought the characters were worth the time invested.

You're putting the cart before the horse.  Modern BioWare games (save NWN) are all about the characters.

I can only vaguely recall Mass Effect's key plot points, but I can still remember talking to Ashley and Tali about their families or how awesome some of the elevator conversations were.  Dragon Age is the same way.  Hell, even the dog and retarded kid are good characters.  Yes, one of the endings is straight from Beowulf but it's still makes an impact because of your companions and the fact that you've been your character for 40+ hours and, strangely enough, have a "future" you'd like to be able to experience thanks not only to the epilogue, but sequels as well.

I think a good parallel would be how period costumes can get in the way of the message in a production of The Tempest or Medea.  The Elizabethan or Classical Greek dress isn't what either play is about and so while possibly being novel (or winning someone a Tony) it has the capacity to distract.  If the costuming and set design gets out of the damn way by not being particularly terrible or showy you could get an overall better experience.

The graphics, the interface, the overall plot; all of it is just set design for a story about you and three friends hopefully saving the day.  If it gets in the way, it sucks, but it being competent doesn't take away from the greatness of what actually matters.

TL;DR: I don't care if the next game starts with "Rage." and involves a horse, give me some well-written companions and I'm there.

[tmp]

It was AND your standards suck.

I rather liked the structure if anything. Not like having some actual denouement after the climax is something new but it felt good there after all the mob stabbing.

[Threash]

I liked the endings, it made me want to play again to see more endings.

[rattran]

If you go for the big dirtnap at the end

[schild]

If you go for the big dirtnap at the end

Also, I think one of the reasons EA pushed for DLC at launch is simply because all the hardcore folks that would buy the DLC would be done with the game before they got to releasing anything substantial. I can't even see an expansion to this game coming out. Rather, just Dragon Age: Just After Origins, Now with French People.

[Samprimary]

I'm exaggerating on the "eating their shit" part, but if a fast swinging templar could survive an initial onslaught, then a mage would die, I think. Templars beat on them, on top of draining their mana. Too many things to recover from. Umm unless they're Blood Mages. Templars seemed designed to dispense everything else though. Big Bad Arcane Warriors ironically would drop the quickest.

Hmm. Well, I guess it's nerd theory time. Okay, here's my take. If you're playing against an arcane warrior that starts combat with their passives on, AND they don't get off the initial crushing prison or force field, that's the case.

But one of the things about arcane warrior which makes them incredibly broken is that they're best when you don't leave your passives on. You just use it to be able to wear whatever armor you want, and then you can turn on combat magic after you've spit out all your mana. The huge hit to fatigue and upkeep doesn't matter, because you can turn on all your passives at zero mana.

So, realistically, Arcane Warrior minimizes your hope of a quick kill, which is your only real shot against a mage. Otherwise, you're going to get put in a forcefield and the mage will yawn and come up with one of the seven billion ways they can completely tool you. Glyph of repulsion? Sure! Crushing prison? Sure! Put up a Storm of the Century with you at the epicenter? Sure! Paralysis? Sure! Misdirection Hex? Sure! All of these? Sure!

[stray]

An initial crushing prison wouldn't take a out a tank type of character. Especially a typical Arcane Warrior's crushing prison. It's not like their magic damage is going to be through the roof or something. Sooner or later, a Templar would get in their face. If they get even a split second of freedom, then they'd disspell whatever buffs the Arcane Warrior turned on while the Temp was imprisoned. At that point, the AW would be out of mana to resort back to casting too. That puts them on their heels. At that point, most players will get killed.

And even if they did have mana to resort to casting, the Temp is already in their face beating out the last bits of mana. By far, the best ability of Templars -- not the disspell.

Lastly, just having Combat Magic would do nothing for melee. It's a combination of all those toggles that make an AW uber - Arcane Shield, Rock Armor, Miasma, etc.. But in a fight like that, you'd have to choose quickly what is turned on and off.

[schild]

Especially a typical Arcane Warrior's crushing prison. It's not like their magic damage is going to be through the roof or something.

Speak for yourself.

[schild]

So without looking at the exact spoilers, the game's ending is something akin to this?:

THE END

for now...?
(Buy our upcoming DLC!)

Yes. Basically.

[Rasix]

Not really.  May depend on the ending.  I chose fornication for my greater good.

Worm sure turns fast for you on games.

[schild]

Not really.  May depend on the ending.  I chose fornication for my greater good.

Worm sure turns fast for you on games.

I chose fornication also. I mean, Cthulhu or death. Tough choice.

Doesn't make the ending very enjoyable though. Unlike Mass Effect where there was a tiny modicum of closure, this ending was more akin to "hay, that was just one of many. Also, enjoy the sparkling hills of Orlais on your next tour of Definitely Not Forgotten Realms."

[Lightstalker]

The starting stories were awesome, the middle was fine, but the ending wasn't at the same standard.  Rushed.

[stray]

Especially a typical Arcane Warrior's crushing prison. It's not like their magic damage is going to be through the roof or something.

Speak for yourself.

Exactly how high is your magic then? Even in the case of a pure caster, I doubt it's going to one shot another player's warrior. And if it is super high, then I don't think it's a good idea to do on AW in general.

The point is though, that's a class dependent on magic toggles fighting a class who can dispell all of it's toggles in one move, cuts down their mana pool, and gets passive buffs to mental resistance (which are high even without extra gear). Spells like Force Field and Crushing Prison aren't going to instantly hit, or even last long.

There's a reason why Templars are written into the Lore as the guys who lock mages up and keep them in a tower like bitches.

[edit] Ahem.. I actually like Gregoir. 

[Threash]

You can still beat on a target inside crushing prison, its not like force field.  Even if the damage from the spell doesn't kill you hes still free to either smack you or cast spells on you for the duration.  This is silly, a non mage has absolutely no chance.

[rk47]

Are we really debating PVP in a Single player game? 

If there's a Templar Boss AI that can fight better, maybe I'd consider it as the AW Achilles' Heel, but no such opponent exist. The amount of crowd control options and solid resistances is probably the main selling point of Arcane Warrior over other pure warriors.

If they can make offensive warrior specs slightly cheaper on the stamina cost I'd be fucking happier. All these cool moves and I can't spam it as fast / as much as Mages? Fuck that, roll a dual rogue and melt faces as you toss flasks of explosions from stealth before unloading your stabby pizza supreme on a mage's backside.

[Samprimary]

An initial crushing prison wouldn't take a out a tank type of character. Especially a typical Arcane Warrior's crushing prison. It's not like their magic damage is going to be through the roof or something. Sooner or later, a Templar would get in their face. If they get even a split second of freedom, then they'd disspell whatever buffs the Arcane Warrior turned on while the Temp was imprisoned. At that point, the AW would be out of mana to resort back to casting too. That puts them on their heels. At that point, most players will get killed.

Well, since we've ventured into out-and-out theorycrafting, you are working on a large number of misapprehensions. First: why would the Arcane Warrior turn on their buffs while the templar (or, more to the point, the "any non-mage") was in crushing prison? Crushing Prison is a free-for-all. You would leave the sustainables off and just start nuking the shit out of them. It's only Force Field that makes you immune, and even that's retarded because it allows a mage to relax, take their time, and put you in the center of Storm of the Century and re-stun you the second you come out of it. It is not a fun combination! You have to resist a handful of extremely difficult checks just to crawl out of it at half-speed, and it kills you very, very fast. Going back to the landsmeet duel, this is why T.L. was such a pushover.

Secondly, "at that point, most players will get killed" is ... well, yes, this is theorycrafting after all, but ... it's an assumption reliant on the idea that once FF/CP are on cooldown, the mage is going to do nothing else other than bat at you with Spellweaver. If both of the telekinetics disables are on cooldown, there's still paralyze, cone of cold, force blast, stonefist, glyph of repulsion, glyph of being frozen yet again etc. The sad fact of the matter is that mages effectively have permastun with multiple contingencies.

Even assuming the remote possibility that all of these are resisted, there's still the small matter of Misdirection Hex, an Arcane Warrior's answer to actually being in a melee fight. No non-mage class has an ability as cool as "I spit this out at you, now all of your normal hits are misses and all of your crits are normal hits, ha ha"

Some of this is actually pretty assuredly going to be fixed in the near future. Miasma is a likely subject. It's been noted that the way it scales with your magic stat is too powerful. Now, I know there's no PVP in dragon age, but stuff like this matters insofar as, ideally, Bioware wants all of the classes to be equally fun to play; it's a little difficult to enjoy being a warrior when through 95% of the game you sort of feel like a glorified accessory to the party mages.

And if it is super high, then I don't think it's a good idea to do on AW in general.

Yes it is. At level 5 I figured this out and stopped putting any points in anything besides Magic. Mages have the benefit of being a one-stat wonder. By having a magic score in the stratosphere, you've set them up to have irresistible disables, higher damage, and the ability to get eight billion jillion mana back from a single lesser lyrium potion, which you can literally produce a hundred of for under five gold.

[Strazos]

Doesn't the tossing of a flask kill stealth? If so, why would you not open with a backstab, stun, back off to toss the flask, and go back in for stabs?

[Samprimary]

If they can make offensive warrior specs slightly cheaper on the stamina cost I'd be fucking happier.

Honestly I just don't understand why the game didn't release with stamina potions. Mages are generally supposed to have problems with mana capacity, but it's irrelevant due to the fact that they have the ability to huff lyrium as much as they want.

[Strazos]

At least you generally have less lyrium potions than health poultices?

[Threash]

At least you generally have less lyrium potions than health poultices?

You have unlimited amounts of both.

[schild]

Especially a typical Arcane Warrior's crushing prison. It's not like their magic damage is going to be through the roof or something.

Speak for yourself.

There's a reason why Templars are written into the Lore as the guys who lock mages up and keep them in a tower like bitches.

That is not an argument.

[Strazos]

At least you generally have less lyrium potions than health poultices?

You have unlimited amounts of both.

Um, what?

[AutomaticZen]

At least you generally have less lyrium potions than health poultices?

You have unlimited amounts of both.

Um, what?

Craft them. 

[tmp]

Um, what?

The vendor in Mage Tower has unlimited supply of lyrium dust (it's listed as 99 but restocks every time you open shop). And there's unlimited flask supply in couple places. End result, you can make yourself unlimited amount of lyrium potions.

Same for the health potions except the unlimited elfroot source is the vendor in elf camp.

[rk47]

Doesn't the tossing of a flask kill stealth? If so, why would you not open with a backstab, stun, back off to toss the flask, and go back in for stabs?

Wikia
Rank 2 Stealth Talent
    * Upgrade
    * Requires Level: 4
    * Requires: 14 Cunning

The rogue has learned how to use items while sneaking.

Poisoning is also cheesy as hell. With crafter mule spare chars like Zhevran / Leliana, you can basically grab Tier 4 Poisons / Explosive flasks and have everyone else learn Tier 1 Poisoning to use them. This makes it easier for tanks to dish out damage with Poisons & Explosive flask. Never mind the long cooldowns, each different flask types has seperate cooldowns.

[Strazos]

Right, I should have remember the flask thing, as I play a rogue anyway.

And thanks, didn't know about the lyrium supply in the Tower, as I ran from there as soon as I was finished.

[Samprimary]

The worst part about the infinite lyrium processing scheme is that lesser health poultices and lesser lyrium poultices are all you need to make, since the Magic stat increases the benefit you get from all potions. Oh, guess who has shit-tons of Magic? All mages!

Total cost per lesser lyrium potion: 3 silver, 50 copper. You do the math. Every time I finished off a leg of the game, I would take a break and craft at least a hundred more lyrium potions. Wynne was set up to chug one every time her mana went below 10%. It was infinite mana and infinite healing, to the extent that I just had her leave on Haste at all times. Haste gobbles mana and made all of her heals much less efficient, but I didn't have to care!

[schild]

I had autochug on both when the characters dropped below 80% health.

Dragon Age was not hard.

[Samprimary]

I want to see what this game looks like when it gets a fanbase 'oscuro' style overhaul. They already have stamina potion mods. Probably, a significant increase of potion drinking time and downtime is in order.

[stray]

An initial crushing prison wouldn't take a out a tank type of character. Especially a typical Arcane Warrior's crushing prison. It's not like their magic damage is going to be through the roof or something. Sooner or later, a Templar would get in their face. If they get even a split second of freedom, then they'd disspell whatever buffs the Arcane Warrior turned on while the Temp was imprisoned. At that point, the AW would be out of mana to resort back to casting too. That puts them on their heels. At that point, most players will get killed.

Well, since we've ventured into out-and-out theorycrafting, you are working on a large number of misapprehensions. First: why would the Arcane Warrior turn on their buffs while the templar (or, more to the point, the "any non-mage") was in crushing prison?

Because it wouldn't last forever? Probably not even work? Lets see, even without armor, I have 20 something mental resistance. I think? I don't remember (sorry). If I were wearing, say, Juggernaught, there's more mental resists there. Chances are that a Templar can survive long enough to get into range. It's not like you can just Force Field and use Crushing Prison with impunity. The game might be favorable to mages, but it isn't that shitty.

You have a better chance of holding him back with paralyzing skills, I believe. Templars have nothing to counteract it. Just how many Paralyzing spells you have is another story.

Anyways! Yeah, it's theorycrafting. :X Would be nice to test it out, or like someone said.. if there was a tough Templar in the game to fight.

[rk47]

Eh, DA's real time combat made everything seem like a mess. If they went turn based mode like Jagged Alliance 2, combat would at least been more variety without the chaotic shit that resulted into potion chugging at every round when a fireball hit your party every 15 seconds when fighting a boss.\

@ Stray: Ranged Templar Stun. Rush in, cleanse, take out your two hander and rape.

[stray]

Are we really debating PVP in a Single player game? 

Yes, it's silly..   I guess I'm just trying to get to issue of whether the game is really that unbalanced..

Anyhow, I've played a few classes at this point, and all I can say is that they're all pretty powerful and fun eventually. Even an archer. DW Warriors now being my favorite.