Darkfall "Released"

[Yoru]

Heh heh. Their UO-style "backpack" is a wood box. Heh heh.

[DLRiley]

Those are ancient shots, right?

Because there isn't a node actually called "Mining Spawn Rock" at this point in beta, right?

priorities

Right now, polish is priority #30 behind Functionality #1-29, I can totally buy.

But that's usually months before release.

Basically; priority number 1; Being able to install this game on Windows XP

[cmlancas]

That might not actually even be the priority.  The priority might as well be a close second to sb.exe.

[Sophismata]

df.exe

[UnSub]

you'd also end up with an oligopoly of two or three main guilds, maybe 5 second tier guilds and a ton of also-rans (which worked in EvE, but apparently not in EvE China).

What happened in Eve China then ? googling about it only gives old stories about the launch, can't find anything about the evolution of alliances there.

Just to follow on from IainC, my understanding is that in Eve China one corp took over and dominates entirely. There isn't the kind of two / three / multi-way corp action that is seen in EvE because everyone lives under the one shadow.

[DLRiley]

EvE china = What EVE would have turned into if the regular EvE server didn't host people from several different time zones and countries.

[LC]

Heh heh. Their UO-style "backpack" is a wood box. Heh heh.

I carry a wooden box around on my back all the time. It's much easier to carry than those primitive leather/cloth bags.

[Signe]

I just read the best post about Darkfall ever.  And it was on vnboards no less!  It said this:



Adorable!

[Triforcer]

I beg to differ.  The dog's behind doesn't show the effects of explosive diarrhea, thus the game is not adequately represented. 

[Signe]

I like the adorable better.  I'll leave the explosive emo hissy fits to DV.   

[Venkman]

The DF UI looks like DAoC's launch UI. Have they played anything since then?

[rk47]

I like the adorable better.  I'll leave the explosive emo hissy fits to DV.   

yeah i wanted to see the dog's expression  . so adorable hahah

[WindupAtheist]

A couple pages ago people were talking about theoretical ways to nerf focus fire, through gimping the UI and all kinds of weird ideas, and it's like... isn't this something real games figured out decades ago? Haven't a million console games over the last 25+ years had that "second of invulnerability after being hit" mechanic in place to cap the rate at which a target can take damage? But hey, none of those games were text MUDs so the MMO universe is oblivious. That mechanic might look weird or out of place in an Everquest clone, and nobody can make anything that isn't one of those.

Enjoy the taste of Blizzard's dick, you hacks, you all deserve it.

[Vehementi]

I guess being able to easily dodge shit, hide behind cover, hide behind other people, etc. is a pretty good defensive fact but not specifically anti-focus-fire.

[waffel]

Anyone think that maybe darkfall will be so bad that it will be good?

maybe?

[Rasix]

That doesn't work for games.   You don't end up with Starship Troopers; you end up with Battlefield Earth.

[Sophismata]

A couple pages ago people were talking about theoretical ways to nerf focus fire, through gimping the UI and all kinds of weird ideas, and it's like... isn't this something real games figured out decades ago? Haven't a million console games over the last 25+ years had that "second of invulnerability after being hit" mechanic in place to cap the rate at which a target can take damage?

I thought we'd only discounted one suggested way to 'nerf' focus fire, rather than talk focus fire theory. Anyway, I'm not aware of any console game off-hand that grants invulneraility after being hit - throw me a title, please?

I still maintain that if you feel you must prevent focus fire, just make focus fire not as efficient as the alternative. However it's acheived doesn't actually matter - invulnerability or otherwise.

[Triforcer]

A couple pages ago people were talking about theoretical ways to nerf focus fire, through gimping the UI and all kinds of weird ideas, and it's like... isn't this something real games figured out decades ago? Haven't a million console games over the last 25+ years had that "second of invulnerability after being hit" mechanic in place to cap the rate at which a target can take damage?

I thought we'd only discounted one suggested way to 'nerf' focus fire, rather than talk focus fire theory. Anyway, I'm not aware of any console game off-hand that grants invulneraility after being hit - throw me a title, please?

Think Mario 1, getting hit when you are in big form. 

[Vehementi]

E.g. make all attacks short non-stacking DOTs

[WindupAtheist]

Maybe you weren't around yet, Soph, but we've had this focus fire discussion more than a time or two in the past.

Think Mario 1, getting hit when you are in big form.

Yup, and a lot of other games that were more subtle about it. I mean let's take an old game like TMNT2 for the NES. It's a simple enough game, but there are a lot of rules in place dictating when characters can and cannot receive damage in order to keep things fun.

If you run up to the first stage boss and smack him with a basic attack, there will be a half-second period where he reels back from the hit, unable to strike back. This lets you land a blow without neccessarily having to take one in return. But at the same time the boss receives almost a full second of immunity from being hit again, giving him the ability to strike back if you linger in front of him, and preventing you from locking him down by just wailing on him.

If you do linger in front of him, he'll start kicking. The first time you're hit, you'll reel back, unable to deal or receive damage for a fraction of a second. Unlike the boss, you can be hit again immediately when this ends, essentially locking you into a second hit. But there's a mechanic in place to keep you from being locked down and kicked to death. After the second or third hit received in rapid succession, you'll get kicked right across the room. You can't be hit (by bullets or whatever) while flying back like this either, and the distance basically breaks off the melee for a few seconds until either he charges or you move back in to attack.

This is just Leonardo beating up Rocksteady in a Nintendo game 20 years ago. But if you transcribe it into MMO terms, suddenly it becomes this complex system of stuns, immunities, and knockbacks that would make a developer's head explode to think about because they've been too focused on making graphical MUDs and haven't learned a thing from real videogames.

[DLRiley]

Maybe you weren't around yet, Soph, but we've had this focus fire discussion more than a time or two in the past.

Think Mario 1, getting hit when you are in big form.

Yup, and a lot of other games that were more subtle about it. I mean let's take an old game like TMNT2 for the NES. It's a simple enough game, but there are a lot of rules in place dictating when characters can and cannot receive damage in order to keep things fun.

If you run up to the first stage boss and smack him with a basic attack, there will be a half-second period where he reels back from the hit, unable to strike back. This lets you land a blow without neccessarily having to take one in return. But at the same time the boss receives almost a full second of immunity from being hit again, giving him the ability to strike back if you linger in front of him, and preventing you from locking him down by just wailing on him.

If you do linger in front of him, he'll start kicking. The first time you're hit, you'll reel back, unable to deal or receive damage for a fraction of a second. Unlike the boss, you can be hit again immediately when this ends, essentially locking you into a second hit. But there's a mechanic in place to keep you from being locked down and kicked to death. After the second or third hit received in rapid succession, you'll get kicked right across the room. You can't be hit (by bullets or whatever) while flying back like this either, and the distance basically breaks off the melee for a few seconds until either he charges or you move back in to attack.

This is just Leonardo beating up Rocksteady in a Nintendo game 20 years ago. But if you transcribe it into MMO terms, suddenly it becomes this complex system of stuns, immunities, and knockbacks that would make a developer's head explode to think about because they've been too focused on making graphical MUDs and haven't learned a thing from real videogames.

Do I have permission to link to this post every time I point out that the mmo industry is 10 years behind the gaming industry?

[WindupAtheist]

Ten years at least. In MMO terms if everyone had a half-second immunity upon being hit and a one-second cooldown on attacks, the immunity would have zero effect on one-vs-one combat, but would make stacking more than two guys on a single opponent during a group-vs-group fight inefficient.

[FatuousTwat]

Oh god... TMNT2 for the NES was 20 years ago!? That makes me feel old.

[Triforcer]

The DF UI looks like DAoC's launch UI. Have they played anything since then?

Dude, the UI was probably designed in 2001.  The rest of the time has been spent trying to make armor shiny and stuff.

[Sophismata]

Excellent; thanks for the education, guys  .

[WindupAtheist]

Come to think of it, the bosses may not have had an immunity that lasted a hair longer than their stun. They may have just been able to come out of stun with an instant kick before you could hit them again. But that's just apples or oranges. The point is, real games figured out decades ago that letting every combatant take damage all the time is oftentimes bad for fun, and did something about it.

[Draegan]

I mean let's take an old game like TMNT2 for the NES. It's a simple enough game, but there are a lot of rules in place dictating when characters can and cannot receive damage in order to keep things fun.

When was that game ever fun?

Edit:
Nevermind I missed the "2".

[Nija]

Ten years at least. In MMO terms if everyone had a half-second immunity upon being hit and a one-second cooldown on attacks, the immunity would have zero effect on one-vs-one combat, but would make stacking more than two guys on a single opponent during a group-vs-group fight inefficient.

The TMNT reference might be a bit above your average MMO players head. I always refer to the orange knights from Zelda 2. 3:37 in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwzJqO9SIEk

Also check out the MMO-slaughtering AI of the skeleton knight right after the orange one. He realizes that he can't hit Link from this angle, and he cannot approach Link without getting hit. So he doesn't approach. He doesn't disappear and reappear at his original location with full health. He doesn't warp to a spot where he can hit Link. He sits out of reach. Since Zelda 2 came out in 1987 that means that MMOs are officially 20+ years behind console NPC combat.

[Vehementi]

In Crysis/Warhead (in single player) there's a variable set based on your difficulty.  It determines how many enemies can attack you simultaneously.  At higher difficulty the number is like 5 or 10 IIRC, but after that the mobs either do no damage (presumably within some time period) or "wait their turn".

[LC]

The TMNT reference might be a bit above your average MMO players head. I always refer to the orange knights from Zelda 2. 3:37 in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwzJqO9SIEk

Also check out the MMO-slaughtering AI of the skeleton knight right after the orange one. He realizes that he can't hit Link from this angle, and he cannot approach Link without getting hit. So he doesn't approach. He doesn't disappear and reappear at his original location with full health. He doesn't warp to a spot where he can hit Link. He sits out of reach. Since Zelda 2 came out in 1987 that means that MMOs are officially 20+ years behind console NPC combat.

MMO players don't like to lose. Thats why we have simple AI and optional pvp without penalties.

[kildorn]

Ten years at least. In MMO terms if everyone had a half-second immunity upon being hit and a one-second cooldown on attacks, the immunity would have zero effect on one-vs-one combat, but would make stacking more than two guys on a single opponent during a group-vs-group fight inefficient.

The TMNT reference might be a bit above your average MMO players head. I always refer to the orange knights from Zelda 2. 3:37 in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwzJqO9SIEk

Also check out the MMO-slaughtering AI of the skeleton knight right after the orange one. He realizes that he can't hit Link from this angle, and he cannot approach Link without getting hit. So he doesn't approach. He doesn't disappear and reappear at his original location with full health. He doesn't warp to a spot where he can hit Link. He sits out of reach. Since Zelda 2 came out in 1987 that means that MMOs are officially 20+ years behind console NPC combat.

Wouldn't immunity after being hit be Massively exploitable in an MMO?

All I need to do is equip a fast 1.0 dps dagger and autoattack your mob and you'll suddenly take a huge dps hit just because I feel like being a douche.

[DLRiley]

Ten years at least. In MMO terms if everyone had a half-second immunity upon being hit and a one-second cooldown on attacks, the immunity would have zero effect on one-vs-one combat, but would make stacking more than two guys on a single opponent during a group-vs-group fight inefficient.

The TMNT reference might be a bit above your average MMO players head. I always refer to the orange knights from Zelda 2. 3:37 in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwzJqO9SIEk

Also check out the MMO-slaughtering AI of the skeleton knight right after the orange one. He realizes that he can't hit Link from this angle, and he cannot approach Link without getting hit. So he doesn't approach. He doesn't disappear and reappear at his original location with full health. He doesn't warp to a spot where he can hit Link. He sits out of reach. Since Zelda 2 came out in 1987 that means that MMOs are officially 20+ years behind console NPC combat.

Saying 20 years is a bit mean. I mean I thought mmo's were suppose to be badly made simulators, not games people are suppose to enjoy.

[Segoris]

The TMNT reference might be a bit above your average MMO players head. I always refer to the orange knights from Zelda 2.

TMNT2 and Zelda 2 would both probably be a bit over the average MMO player's head because most of them weren't even born yet. Fuck, that hurts to say and makes me feel old.

[Nebu]

Nebu's rule: People under 40 don't get to complain about being old. 

Stick to the rules and get off my lawn, damnit!

[sidereal]

What's this Twattering that all the kids are doing these days?  And pull your pants up!