Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 24, 2017, 12:10:03 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Subscribe! | Shop: Amazon

***DONATION DRIVE 2 HAS BEGUN:
CLICK HERE TO BURN MONEY***
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Hellgate: London  |  Topic: Marksman 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Marksman  (Read 18598 times)
Hoax
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7272

l33t kiddie


on: November 02, 2007, 11:12:56 AM

So ummm someone needed to start this thread.  Since I'm way late to the goddamn party I've got questions for what I'm guessing is the most played class atm.

Is/has anyone been using Sniper>Master Sniper Deadeye>Hollow Points?  I've got no idea what the base crit rate is, nor have I in 2 hours of playing ran into a gun with high damage and medium-slow RoF.  I was thinking of trying to make a character build that can basically one-hit everything with just insane single shot damage.

I figure going for spread damage is the smarter / more common route ala the bowazon's of Diablo-yore but I like the idea of going sniper mode and just plinking the demon fucks one by one.



Also discuss other Soldier stuff, is it just me or is Flash Crasher grenade the best sounding from the skill desc by a mile?  Beacon = good or waste of points?  How cool to airstrikes look?  etc. etc.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #1 on: November 02, 2007, 11:19:12 AM

Beacon is amazing, max it.

You should find a Poseidon sniper rifle soon enough, it's great.

Sniper stance and Escape is a good combo.  Not the fastest way to clear a map but it's really safe.  Migh have problem with boss, especially if they regenerate.
sam, an eggplant
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1518


Reply #2 on: November 02, 2007, 11:22:05 AM

It's viable, but HGL is a dungeon hack, that would take forever. Most people just ignore the sniping and play the marksman close range with grenades.
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #3 on: November 02, 2007, 11:25:48 AM

You can go pretty fast if you snipe the stongest mob of a pack then switch to an AOE gun.
Nonentity
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2300

2009 Demon's Souls Fantasy League Champion


WWW
Reply #4 on: November 02, 2007, 11:57:43 AM

Well, I'm level 24 now, and i'm onto act 5.

I've completely ignored Snipe and Tactical Stance, and I've gone for grenades and crit-activitied abilities.

It works pretty well - I'm using an Arclite Heavy Cluster Rifle, modded for fire damage/ignite and a crapload of stun, along with armor penetration. I can basically just run and gun everything.

Sniper rifles and any other big slow weapons just aren't worth it, from what I've seen.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

[20:42:41] You are halted on the way to the netherworld by a dark spirit, demanding knowledge.
[20:42:41] The spirit touches you and you feel drained.
Murgos
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7474


Reply #5 on: November 02, 2007, 12:12:29 PM

I have my retail copy but haven't played in a week but I had my MM up to 15 before the end of Beta.

A SNPR, Sniper stance and Beacon was able to one shot everything.  Certain areas I didn't mind going slow, using evade and feeling like a sniper.  Other areas I would just run around and blast everything with the lightning gun and grenades.  Mostly it came down to if there were blade fiends on the level or not.

I could see doing a tactical stance build with a machine gun type weapon and a bunch of +crit stuff, would be a faster play style than pure sniper but with escape could still feel pretty stealthy.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Tige
Terracotta Army
Posts: 273


Reply #6 on: November 02, 2007, 12:17:21 PM

In beta I went sniper with escape and beacon.  Get an 8 slot rifle, mod it and off you go.  I used sniper mode to clear annoying mobs like flyers and tunnelers.  Also very helpful when tough mobs are bunched together like after going through a hellrift.  Snipe, escape, repeat, win!
Hoax
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7272

l33t kiddie


Reply #7 on: November 02, 2007, 12:49:45 PM

I was hoping with full Master Sniper, Deadeye and Hollow points you might not need to escape hella much, perhaps using a medium RoF weapon.  I was imagining instead of spraying them down while walking backwards for more of a one shot one kill, the whole pack is dead before they get to melee range.  I guess it'll be fun build to try to force to work but sounds like it might not.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268


Reply #8 on: November 02, 2007, 02:21:17 PM

I have my setup like this:

1) Normal Use (Lightning Gun, Rapid Fire)
2) Sniper Use (Drops Massive Damage to Named and Demons)
3) Group Use (Rocket Launcher for Clusters of mobs)

If there's a large group of mobs, sniper is not a good way to go. You might pick off two or three before they get close.  The reason for this is that your sniper rifle takes twice as long to fire ... about 4 seconds with what I got right now.

When I start my Elite character, I plan to focus more on Rapid Fire + Crit-Activated Abilities and completely ignore Tactical Stance + Sniper Stance, for now.

Edit: I am having a hard time figuring out how to specialize my character.  Putting multiple skill points into a single talent seems like such a waste when trying to get most abilities that are worthwhile and unlocking additional attacks seems better.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 02:31:18 PM by Lorekeep »

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Morfiend
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6009

wants a greif tittle


Reply #9 on: November 02, 2007, 03:25:26 PM


Edit: I am having a hard time figuring out how to specialize my character.  Putting multiple skill points into a single talent seems like such a waste when trying to get most abilities that are worthwhile and unlocking additional attacks seems better.

Its better now, but not at later levels. At those levels you need all the specialization to not become sort of mediocre in all areas.
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #10 on: November 02, 2007, 03:41:14 PM


When I start my Elite character, I plan to focus more on Rapid Fire + Crit-Activated Abilities and completely ignore Tactical Stance + Sniper Stance, for now.

Edit: I am having a hard time figuring out how to specialize my character.  Putting multiple skill points into a single talent seems like such a waste when trying to get most abilities that are worthwhile and unlocking additional attacks seems better.

Tactical stance synergise better with all the Crit-Activated Abilities.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 54681


WWW
Reply #11 on: November 02, 2007, 03:41:41 PM

Started my Marksman last night.

Fantastic character class. Particularly when you've got dual pistols, single machine gun (that's toxic or flame wave) and a sniper rifle. Just terribly versatile and VERY good at soloing.
sam, an eggplant
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1518


Reply #12 on: November 02, 2007, 04:20:29 PM

Tactical stance synergise better with all the Crit-Activated Abilities.
You can't move in tactical stance. HGL is a fast paced dungeon hack. It's crap.

They should have added several toggleable stances to the game instead, all with no downsides. Something like:

tactical stance: +25% accuracy, -25% missile spread, -10% attribute drain on weapons (default)
sniper stance: +25% crit chance, +25% attack speed, +50% range, -100% AE radius (for bosses, high single target damage)
supressing stance: -25% damage, +25% chance to penetrate, +25% chance to ricochet, +1yd AE radius, +50% AE radius (for groups)



LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268


Reply #13 on: November 02, 2007, 05:23:40 PM

Stances only make sense to me if you're partied and someone is taking the aggro.  Otherwise you need to move your ass all the time.  I do lead off with sniping on singular mobs but it *feels so bad*.

I do want to get the Crit-Activated build, I just can't stand that part of standing still.  Such a major design flaw against "fun" that they just didn't see from the start? Shit.

There are skills that just seem good enough to put 1 point in (Escape, for one) that are a just-in-case versatility situation.

I also might have been raising my character's stats wrong.  I've been raising Accuracy and Stamina (3/2 ratio) and trying to put a point in Strength as necessary for armor.  But I've been ignoring Wisdom and I can see how fast my mana drops in a fight.  A higher wisdom might mean I can more effectively drop in and out of stances ... which might be part of what I'm missing about the Marksman.

Then again, the way I've put my stats, maybe I am building the right Run & Gun character.  I'd be dead way more often with my playstyle without Stamina.

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #14 on: November 02, 2007, 08:05:17 PM

Tactical stance synergise better with all the Crit-Activated Abilities.
You can't move in tactical stance. HGL is a fast paced dungeon hack. It's crap.

He was going for rapid fire, an other immobile skill...  You can still move around and kill stuff with out bothering with the stance, but you crouch for big stack of mobs.  The added shield makes up for the hits you'll take before they reach you. 
Nonentity
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2300

2009 Demon's Souls Fantasy League Champion


WWW
Reply #15 on: November 02, 2007, 09:04:47 PM

Stances only make sense to me if you're partied and someone is taking the aggro.  Otherwise you need to move your ass all the time.  I do lead off with sniping on singular mobs but it *feels so bad*.

I do want to get the Crit-Activated build, I just can't stand that part of standing still.  Such a major design flaw against "fun" that they just didn't see from the start? Shit.

There are skills that just seem good enough to put 1 point in (Escape, for one) that are a just-in-case versatility situation.

I also might have been raising my character's stats wrong.  I've been raising Accuracy and Stamina (3/2 ratio) and trying to put a point in Strength as necessary for armor.  But I've been ignoring Wisdom and I can see how fast my mana drops in a fight.  A higher wisdom might mean I can more effectively drop in and out of stances ... which might be part of what I'm missing about the Marksman.

Then again, the way I've put my stats, maybe I am building the right Run & Gun character.  I'd be dead way more often with my playstyle without Stamina.

My stamina is my highest stat.

I'm maxing out the Ricochet (shots bounce off walls) ability, because that literally goes off all the time. For the other two, I've only put one point in each of them.

One point in each of the grenades, to ensure you can meet any damage type requirement. Then just do tactical strikes up to Smackdown, and you've got all the bases covered on damage types.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

[20:42:41] You are halted on the way to the netherworld by a dark spirit, demanding knowledge.
[20:42:41] The spirit touches you and you feel drained.
Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8729

~Living the Dream~


WWW
Reply #16 on: November 02, 2007, 10:31:16 PM

I started one today and noticed right off that just about every gun that isn't a regular rifle is of questionable use. Duel Machine Pistols works nice for clusters of mobs but doesn't have enough oomph to finish them off fast, and the rifle does that better anyway...rocket launchers are kinda useless, bolters are kinda useless, and sniper rifles bore me. I can get where rocket launchers would be great for grouping but I kept finding myself switching back to a rifle to really get anything done.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Phunked
Terracotta Army
Posts: 249


Reply #17 on: November 02, 2007, 10:44:26 PM

The way the targeting thing works, the assault rifle or any of the other continuous firing variations are by far the most versatile. Especially when you get a spawn of jumping/flying/swarming/low hp mobs. Combined with rapid fire rank 1 (why *not* get it?) you can easily clear a crowd that isn't resistant to whatever damage type you have very fast. I have the typical rifle/sniper/rocket launcher set up, but the more I keep playing, the less I use my rocket launcher or sniper. Rockets are mostly for zombies now, and the sniper is for sniping any of the slow flying eyes, ranged lightning bolt shooters, or opening up on named mobs.

Overall its fun, but marksman has to be the easiest class to play. So many passive skills + escape makes me wonder if the thing is balanced.
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #18 on: November 03, 2007, 07:22:18 AM

Nothing like a rocket launcher fully modded with +dmg% to necro.
MrHat
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7269

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.


Reply #19 on: November 03, 2007, 07:43:23 AM

Do all the on-crit passives (Ricochet, Reflected, Homing) stack?  I was thinking of a run-and-gun that just relys on crazy crit.

Something like this:  http://hellgate.ingame.de/skilltree/marksman/?l=50&s=030711070007030700070300110

Then just rely on a high-spread weapons w/ high crit mods.  Sounds badass imo.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 07:47:40 AM by MrHat »
Phunked
Terracotta Army
Posts: 249


Reply #20 on: November 03, 2007, 07:43:48 AM

That would be some very pretty overkill.
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #21 on: November 03, 2007, 08:15:40 AM

Do all the on-crit passives (Ricochet, Reflected, Homing) stack?  I was thinking of a run-and-gun that just relys on crazy crit.

They don't. They are mutually exclusive.  They can't proc at the same time.  So if the 25% chance of the first skill happen at the same time than the 15% of the other, one of them will be wasted. 

Invest 1 point in every skills or concentrate on one.  Don't max more than one.

It's pretty retarded, should at least be explained in the skill's text.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 08:17:13 AM by Aez »
MrHat
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7269

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.


Reply #22 on: November 03, 2007, 08:48:26 AM

Awesome, thanks for the advice.

Can you use Rapid Fire while remaining in Tactical Stance?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 08:51:40 AM by MrHat »
Miasma
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5282

Stopgap Measure


Reply #23 on: November 03, 2007, 10:06:46 AM

I started one today and noticed right off that just about every gun that isn't a regular rifle is of questionable use. Duel Machine Pistols works nice for clusters of mobs but doesn't have enough oomph to finish them off fast, and the rifle does that better anyway...rocket launchers are kinda useless, bolters are kinda useless, and sniper rifles bore me. I can get where rocket launchers would be great for grouping but I kept finding myself switching back to a rifle to really get anything done.
I pretty much agree but have one exception, the "field" weapons.  Getting a launcher that lays down a 10' field of fire is absolutely awesome.  When I went to the Museum level most of the enemies were those guys that spawn out of the ground in a large group, I was laughing my ass off as I just laid down one or two blasts on their hole and watched them all instantly die.

I haven't spent any skill points yet because I don't want to screw it up, I like the run and gun ideas which don't use much power because I don't want to put points into will
Hoax
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7272

l33t kiddie


Reply #24 on: November 03, 2007, 10:57:54 AM

I've noticed every gun says crit chance = 0%, does this change later on or have I not seen the right gun types yet?

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Murgos
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7474


Reply #25 on: November 03, 2007, 11:31:55 AM

Can you use Rapid Fire while remaining in Tactical Stance?

Nope.  I had been thinking the same thing you were, level up tac stance tree and the rapid fire tree until rapid fire was your default attack and then combine with tac stance for ubar slaying powars.

Triggering rapid fire makes you stand up.    Ohhhhh, I see.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
caladein
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3174


WWW
Reply #26 on: November 03, 2007, 03:18:01 PM

I've noticed every gun says crit chance = 0%, does this change later on or have I not seen the right gun types yet?

I'm running into that too with my Flamethrowers (Fire Field) and Bug Guns (Toxic Swarm), but some weapons do have Crit Chance:


"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10220


Reply #27 on: November 04, 2007, 03:20:49 AM

It's also fairly common to be able to add +crit-chance through mods and augmentations.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268


Reply #28 on: November 04, 2007, 03:56:51 AM

Tactical stance synergise better with all the Crit-Activated Abilities.
You can't move in tactical stance. HGL is a fast paced dungeon hack. It's crap.

He was going for rapid fire, an other immobile skill...  You can still move around and kill stuff with out bothering with the stance, but you crouch for big stack of mobs.  The added shield makes up for the hits you'll take before they reach you. 

Too bad that the extra shields on Tactical Stance don't work right...according to the skill I should have like 220 added but I only see like 22 or something.

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
rk47
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6171

The Patron Saint of Radicalthons


Reply #29 on: November 05, 2007, 06:45:10 AM

....the boss fights are pretty bad as marksman early lvl...I'm lvl 7 now and it really sucks just spamming potions while running shooting backwards, spamming beacon, fire off sniper, repeat. Stances are hardly worth anything. And in the open I felt like a skeet shooter with sniping + beacon. Kinda felt like playing Deus Ex with slower levelling lol, that's my only beef with this game I guess. Pretty bored quick. The rocket launchers just scatter all over the place, not really useful, but in the Museum....geez...I'm glad I still have it with me as well as 20 healing packs.  awesome, for real

Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
schild
Administrator
Posts: 54681


WWW
Reply #30 on: November 05, 2007, 06:50:39 AM

?

slow leveling?

What are you smoking and tell me where you get it so I can avoid it.
Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369


Reply #31 on: November 05, 2007, 07:09:49 AM

....the boss fights are pretty bad as marksman early lvl...I'm lvl 7 now and it really sucks just spamming potions while running shooting backwards, spamming beacon, fire off sniper, repeat. Stances are hardly worth anything. And in the open I felt like a skeet shooter with sniping + beacon. Kinda felt like playing Deus Ex with slower levelling lol, that's my only beef with this game I guess. Pretty bored quick. The rocket launchers just scatter all over the place, not really useful, but in the Museum....geez...I'm glad I still have it with me as well as 20 healing packs.  awesome, for real

Stop moving with your rocket launcher, the cone of fire is much better.  You can almost snipe with the tactical stance and a rocket launcher.
LK
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268


Reply #32 on: November 05, 2007, 11:49:59 AM

....the boss fights are pretty bad as marksman early lvl...I'm lvl 7 now and it really sucks just spamming potions while running shooting backwards, spamming beacon, fire off sniper, repeat. Stances are hardly worth anything. And in the open I felt like a skeet shooter with sniping + beacon. Kinda felt like playing Deus Ex with slower levelling lol, that's my only beef with this game I guess. Pretty bored quick. The rocket launchers just scatter all over the place, not really useful, but in the Museum....geez...I'm glad I still have it with me as well as 20 healing packs.  awesome, for real

The Emperor is a much harder fight than subsequent fights as a Marksman.  I got my ass kicked by Act 1's boss but Act 2 and 3 and 4 were cake-walks compared to him.

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
sam, an eggplant
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1518


Reply #33 on: November 05, 2007, 11:53:30 AM

slow leveling?

What are you smoking and tell me where you get it so I can avoid it.
I don't think the issue is slow leveling so much as slow skill acquisition, delayed skill availability, and useless prerequisites. For example, you can't equip your engineer's drone with guns until level 15 and armor until level 20, you need to waste points in inhibitor bots to get haste bots, etc.
Murgos
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7474


Reply #34 on: November 05, 2007, 12:14:19 PM

If you are going the sniper route without escape then you are in for a very long, slow, boring, death filled game.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Hellgate: London  |  Topic: Marksman  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC