APB: Finally, I Can Be A PUNK!

[Furiously]

Right but as a company, Punkbuster seems slower to adapt than the worst of the antivirus companies.

[Mrbloodworth]

Right but as a company, Punkbuster seems slower to adapt than the worst of the antivirus companies.

I don't know about that. Again, I have read the same complaints about VAC. Its always a game of cat and mouse and catch up it seems, no matter what your trap is.

[Ard]

The bigger issue with 3rd party in this case is that there are attack vectors on both the client, the server, and the data stream itself in between, depending on how bad the game is and how little verification of the client is done by the server, and almost all of the time, the fixes need to come from the developer.  All an anti-cheat system can do is temporarily plug the hole, or plug holes in your operating system.  A game with a really inexcusably bad server can't really be fixed by a third party system.  All they can do is alert them that there's a problem, and try to slow the flood.  

This is not a job I'd want to volunteer for, seeing as how the messenger is usually shot on sight, especially when no one wants to take the blame.  I mean, just look at how badly companies like Microsoft take it when they're told they have critical security holes in their software.  They like to sue people.

edit:  

Suppose I better clarify a few things.  Stuff like punkbuster tends to mostly sit on the client's side, and look for known cheats.  Means some of the cheats are work arounds to get around punkbuster itself, which is part of the game they need to chase.  

Part of the reason VAC works so well is that it's linked to a common server infrastructure, steamworks, and they can verify things on both ends.  Without full control on both ends, it's really hard to verify anything, and even then, it's still a game of keep up where the anti-cheat stuff is always behind, since they can only really look for known cheats.  

Getting game developers to use any sort of common code base has been nearly impossible in the past, since they always seem to think they can do it better than the wheel that's already been created.  This has thankfully started to change some from what I've seen, and they're starting to come back around to first and third party network solutions again.  Now we just need to burn the scourge that is p2p game servers to the ground, and we'll be good to go again.

In short, this whole thing is a no win game, and putting yourself in the line of fire isn't really productive.

[Mrbloodworth]

I was under the impression that Punkbuster was also client and server, AND PB server.

[Ard]

It has a server component, but without direct hooks into the actual game server, what can they really do?  Especially with every game server being a unique little snowflake, and some having web vulnerable components?  It all comes right back to the developer needing to protect themselves.

And actually, now that I think about it, isn't punkbuster's main solution just to ban players for using known cheat software?  All they hook into is the login system in all likelyhood.  It's been a while since I've even looked into how some of these even work anymore.  Putting yourself in the middle of this isn't a way to make your company look good though, which was the real point.

[Mrbloodworth]

It has a server component, but without direct hooks into the actual game server, what can they really do?  Especially with every game server being a unique little snowflake, and some having web vulnerable components?  It all comes right back to the developer needing to protect themselves.

And actually, now that I think about it, isn't punkbuster's main solution just to ban players for using known cheat software?  All they hook into is the login system in all likelyhood.  It's been a while since I've even looked into how some of these even work anymore.  Putting yourself in the middle of this isn't a way to make your company look good though, which was the real point.

I have no idea, I just know PB is widely used, so it ether works, or its cheap as hell. 

[Ard]

Just because something is widely used, doesn't mean it works.  Just means they have good marketing and a large enough market of suckers.  Pretty much everything I've read ancedotally says that it doesn't usually work and causes more problems than it solves.  But you know, anecdotes, so grain of salt and all that.

edit again, because I should know better, but I don't:

And by ancedote, this game is a prime example of it not working, seeing as how it launched without it running, after all the hype saying they were using punkbuster.

[Lantyssa]

And there's no alternative out there.  New company comes along, doesn't know better, and ta-da!  Punkbuster now 'protects' their game.

Game Guard is the only alternative I can think of, and that seems to be mostly used by Korean f2p games.

[Mrbloodworth]

I don't think I recall liking what game guard did to my computer the last few times I installed something that used it.

For those that care, as expected  , and as I said  , I have taken a break from this title until they do something with it, I got my box price fun though.    Still interested in where they (really, as in not talk but action) go from here.

[Der Helm]

Before leaving for work earlier today, I created a Criminal character.

Interestingly the fights did not seem to be THAT unbalanced now, even when playing against rank 200+ characters with all upgrades.

I still lose most of them, mind you. But I at least win a few now and then.

Also stealing cars is crazy profitable.

[Threash]

Kinda fun too if you got the right music loaded.

[Count Nerfedalot]

Just because something is widely used, doesn't mean it works.  Just means they have good marketing and a large enough market of suckers.  Pretty much everything I've read ancedotally says that it doesn't usually work and causes more problems than it solves.  But you know, anecdotes, so grain of salt and all that.

edit again, because I should know better, but I don't:

And by ancedote, this game is a prime example of it not working, seeing as how it launched without it running, after all the hype saying they were using punkbuster.

This reminds me of this unpowered "bomb detector" based on dowsing(!) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8477601.stm which makes me want to laugh at the fools if not for all the people who've died because of them. 

At least the deaths due to Punkbuster's failings are virtual.

[TripleDES]

Reminds me of a coworker, who tried to prove to me that dowsing works, when the topic came up. Took two L-shaped dowsers and claimed they'd align with water veins, steel pipes, beams and shit like that. So he placed himself on a steel beam that was poured in place and fumbled to get these things aligned. Apparently that should have been proof enough... which would have been nice, if the place didn't have steel beams and huge water pipes all over the goddamn place.

I love gullible people.

Anyway, how's total population of the game meanwhile? I mean, if people like MrBloodworth are doing a hiatus... A lot of the more enthusiastic advocates on SA also called it quits for now.

[Modern Angel]

Punkbuster not working doesn't bug me. Them turning off Punkbuster and saying "Oh this is totally just to catch the cheaters we totally have this" does. Surprise, it was horseshit.

[Threash]

Last night i went on a 9 player killing streak against a much much better team that ended with me going into notoriety 5 celebrity mode with 2 bullets left on my secondary gun and nothing else and going down in a hail of bullets as time expired and we won.  Everytime the frustration gets too much and i'm ready to quit something like that happens and i'm sucked right back in.

[Mrbloodworth]

Last night i went on a 9 player killing streak against a much much better team that ended with me going into notoriety 5 celebrity mode with 2 bullets left on my secondary gun and nothing else and going down in a hail of bullets as time expired and we won.  Everytime the frustration gets too much and i'm ready to quit something like that happens and i'm sucked right back in.

Yes, this title is good for that. Planetside was also like this at time, perhaps less frustrating though, for some reason I can't put my finger on.

[Azazel]

Hopefully they're working on the Single-player/co-op more sandboxy version of it for consoles. Like a GTA, or Saints Row, or Crackdown, or Just Cause. RTW have the talent, and obviously, the pedigree.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have 5 buddy keys I can give out if anyone wants them, gives you 7 hours of district time, and unlimited social. I suspect other people have them as well.

[Mrbloodworth]

1.30 comes out Tuesday. 1.3.1 after that.

As you now know, the 1.3.0 bugfix patch is imminent, and shortly thereafter we''ll be releasing 1.3.1 which contains a number of changes which we couldn''t quite get ready in time for release next week. 1.3.1 contains a number of small but significant changes which I thought were worth highlighting.


Changes to mission offers

As of 1.3.1, the following changes will take place:

    * Criminal v Criminal matchmaking has been turned off
    * System-generated bounties have been turned off - bounties can now only be entered into by witnessing unopposed criminals. This means that the chances of Calls For Backup being bounty missions will be greatly reduced, so those of you who have said that you generally avoid answering CFB because of the number of bounty missions should be able to relax a little and help out the poor souls who need your muscle.



Changes to weapons in 1.3.1

As ever, when we make changes to weapons, it''s not simply as a concession to people raising concerns on the forums. When weapon balance issues come up, we correlate these with feedback from our QA department and from team members who play regularly on the live service. After some discussion, we''ve decided to make the following changes:

N-Tec:

    * Base accuracy has been reduced slightly.
    * Movement penalty has been reduced slightly to compensate for base accuracy change.
    * Number of shots before accuracy degradation is applied has been lowered (becomes less accurate faster).
    * Maximum level of inaccuracy the weapon can reach has been slightly increased.
    * Benefit gained via Marksmanship mode has been slightly reduced.


OCA-EW:

    * Minimum damage percentage at max range has been increased slightly.
    * Base accuracy has been reduced slightly.
    * Max Range has been reduced by 5m & Effective range reduced by a further 2m.
    * Number of shots before accuracy degradation is applied has been lowered (becomes less accurate faster).
    * Magazine capacity of the weapon has been reduced from 34 to 28 rounds.


Both of these changes are an effort to reduce the effectiveness of continuous full-auto fire.


NL-9:
So I guess this is the hot topic. After some considerable discussion, we have decided to remodel the NL-9 to behave the way it looks - as a Less Than Lethal shotgun. The NL-9 has been reworked to behave almost identically to the JG-840 shotgun - short range, two-shot stun, with a pellet spread.

Looking good.

[WayAbvPar]

I have 5 buddy keys I can give out if anyone wants them, gives you 7 hours of district time, and unlimited social. I suspect other people have them as well.

I am assuming that after the 7 hours, one would have to purchase a full priced box in order to continue? If I could just buy some time and keep playing I would consider it.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have 5 buddy keys I can give out if anyone wants them, gives you 7 hours of district time, and unlimited social. I suspect other people have them as well.

I am assuming that after the 7 hours, one would have to purchase a full priced box in order to continue? If I could just buy some time and keep playing I would consider it.

From the e-mail i have:

Congratulations *SNIP*!

As someone who has shown their commitment to APB: All Points Bulletin by purchasing
additional Gametime, we at Realtime Worlds wanted to thank you by giving you the
chance to be one of the first participants in a brand new program!

As you probably already know, APB is even more fun when played with friends. By
clicking the link below, you can invite up to five friends to join you on the mean
streets of San Paro for a full 7 hours of Action District Gametime, absolutelyfree!

Better still, if they go on to buy the game, we'll reward you with 400 Realtime
Worlds Points per Buddy who upgrades!

https://NA.realtimeworlds.com/account/manage/viewAccount

Go here to start referring!

By participating in this program your Buddies will also have unlimited access to the
Social District until their trial period ends, which is5 days from the moment they
redeem their Buddy Key.

At any time during or after their trial they can purchase a copy of APB from our
https://store.apb.com/
Store or other outlet. If they do so, they will keep all progress they made during
the trial, and we will credit you with 400 Realtime Worlds Points per Buddy who
upgrades. That's enough for 30 days of unlimited Action District Gametime!

To qualify for the Points, both you and your Buddy must maintain active accounts, in
good standing, for 30 days. The Points will be credited directly to your account
after approximately 30 days.

We look forward to seeing you, and your friends, in San Paro very soon!

The APB Team

[EvilJohn]

That is correct, WAP. At the end of the buddy period, they would need to apply a retail key (either digital or physical retail) on their account before they can purchase more time or continue in-game.

Btw, love the avatar - is that from Community or the kid detective move that actor was in?

[Threash]

Changes sound good, i wonder what the next fotm gun will be.  I think ill stick with my rocket launcher for the unexpected hilarity bonus.

[WayAbvPar]

That is correct, WAP. At the end of the buddy period, they would need to apply a retail key (either digital or physical retail) on their account before they can purchase more time or continue in-game.

Btw, love the avatar - is that from Community or the kid detective move that actor was in?

Community- Comparative Religion ep

Thanks for the info. Let me know when the price for entry isn't quite so high and I will be happy to buy some time to play.

[Chinchilla]

I haven't played in a few days due to my laptop basically being shitty, but I've been getting the itch and I'm going to just say fuck it.  Come Sept. I will be getting a new PC either way.

[caladein]

Naturally, the uninstaller doesn't work.

[Mrbloodworth]

So, 1.3.0 dropped today.

Guess what wasn't listed in the patch notes, but made it in anyway? 


Also, most of the retarded camp spots with the one way up shenanigans are removed.

[Threash]

So, 1.3.0 dropped today.

Guess what wasn't listed in the patch notes, but made it in anyway? 


Also, most of the retarded camp spots with the one way up shenanigans are removed.

The weapon nerfs didn't go in.  Weak.

[Mrbloodworth]

They were not supposed to. Thats 1.3.1.

[Threash]

When is that happening?

[Mrbloodworth]

They haven't announce when yet, I expect soon by the wording of things.

[Chinchilla]

Man, can't wait for my new PC (soon).  Damn laptop keeps locking up now after the recent updates.  I haven't tried the latest ones though.  Will try patching now.

[Kageru]

This game should be a case study on why it is a good idea to do a tiny bit of "design" before you launch.

Populations shrinking, hackers still at large, economy wrecked thanks to fashionista cash bonuses for being AFK (now removed, but not the money) and fairly obvious exploits like having opposing factions farm each other (also assume that's part of what "macro witnessing" means). And the one I read today of using alts to create a mission team against your main and then disbanding the team to give your main a free win and the rest of the team an instant loss.

I almost wish I could play it just for the laughs.

[Furiously]

You can still semi-afk at a car with a ammo trunk and get reinforcement levels for easy money.

[Azazel]