War

[Endie]

Colour me cynical, but this is all too convenient and orderly.  I see that little 'we have no stamina' spiel as:

Audience: PL and the north.

Message: please go home.

[Jayce]

Didn't this dude have allied access to GF.com when we were brosefs?  Did he not witness goon culture back then? Why be surprised about it now?

[JustinMead]

We run almost no fun ops?

We run gangs to providence all the time, goons ran a fun op and killed one of there freighters.

Both sides right now are all just spitting propaganda.

[Sir T]

Apparently that and a further pile of drivel that I'm not going to bother posting was not E T, but E K, who is Blaster Worm in game.

Yeah reading further I think Endie is right. This is BS trying to lull goons into a false sense of security and get NC to go home.

[Thrawn]

Yeah reading further I think Endie is right. This is BS trying to lull goons into a false sense of security and get NC to go home.

The whole "wait for NC to go home" mentality that some of them seem to have just seems so dumb to me.  The reason NC are down in Delve are to fight Kenny and -A- and friends.  The only way they'll likely go home other then if they need to defend their own space is if the fighting dies down and they get bored.

So if they just wait for NC to get bored and come hom then start a new fight, doesn't it seem to reason that the NC will just come running right back down to join the fun again then?

[setar]

There's been enough irritation between the RAWR rank and file and GS pilots that it might have seem reasonable to tire them out -- a few more bailouts and they might have had enough, call the job done, reset GS and go back to fighting TRI et al.

Given the recent string of victories this is more than unlikely by now.

[MahrinSkel]

Could be a sucker play, but if the goons don't scent blood and walk into the meatgrinder, it's a con that can become its own reality.  They can simply save 49-U for last (sweep up all the other RKZ and allied remnant POS elsewhere in Goon turf), attack M1BZ or 8QT (strategically important systems that lack 49-U's defensibility), do everything to mop up *except* attack 49-U.  RKZ's subordinate allies simply can't have the confidence or the reserves to take much of that, and it's enough to keep the Goons occupied and alert for a few weeks without keeping them from rotating people off the battlefield to earn and rest.  Oh, it might pull a hot-drop if they start running minimal ops (20-30 capitals, 100-150 subcaps), but quite frankly they can afford the loss and it would be worth it just to spring the trap early and know it's there.  Flip side of that, maybe they can draw out the RKZ remnant unsupported and end this once and for all.

Then when they do go after 49-U, there's nothing in their backfield for them to worry about, and even if RKZ's hegemony hasn't dissolved completely it will undoubtedly be weaker.  Hard for AAA to maintain a pretense of withdrawal without actually pulling their cap fleet back home by then, either.

--Dave

[Cippalippus]

There's been enough irritation between the RAWR rank and file and GS pilots that it might have seem reasonable to tire them out -- a few more bailouts and they might have had enough, call the job done, reset GS and go back to fighting TRI et al.

Given the recent string of victories this is more than unlikely by now.

Funnily enough, the few who complain make the news. Yes, in the coalition we're generally bored, but we have an end in sight; even if Kenzoku started winning back their space tomorrow, you'd still have months and months of constant POS shooting, this isn't even to mention that Goons are more than capable of taking Kenzoku on their own, especially if they are on the defensive... meaning that you'd have to hold their hand for all that time.

And then what? You'd end with everyone blue around you except CVA. Sounds fun!

[Simond]

Of course, there is one thing -A- could do to try and convince us that it's true - reset Kenny. 

[Endie]

Could be a sucker play, but if the goons don't scent blood and walk into the meatgrinder, it's a con that can become its own reality.  They can simply save 49-U for last (sweep up all the other RKZ and allied remnant POS elsewhere in Goon turf), attack M1BZ or 8QT (strategically important systems that lack 49-U's defensibility), do everything to mop up *except* attack 49-U.

This is what strikes me: it's got the potential to be Molle's "~patience~" cock-up all over again.  If they tell the pets "don't worry, we're playing possum until the coalition dissolves and then we'll sucker-punch them" then all the major players will get that back through their intel sources.  So they can't tell their pets or rank-and-file.  So those peons will think it really is a lost cause and drift off.

And we have no plans (that I'm aware of) to try and take 49- on the bounce.  What Mahrin describes is pretty much what we're up to, right now: peel away pets, show them that their assets mean nothing to Kenny, demonstrate their helplessness, and isolate 49- and 3BK.  I think we're a bit more focussed on denying Kenny their potential JB route from 1-SMEB, but generally he's right.  In any case we've announced that we're deploying black ops to interfere with that very extended supply line (safe prediction: Concord will kill more black ops than Kenny).

Anyway, picture Molle's ideal scenario: everyone says "oh well, that's alright then.. bye!  Don't be strangers!"  PL resets Goonswarm and starts killing ratters and slosh ops.  The North go up there and work on the dissolution of Tri 3/4 or whatever it is.  Goonfleet Foreign Legion heads off to help RA or the North, depending on what the map looks like.  It's Molle's moment!  He pounces!  He rallies the GBC, brings in his dreadfleet and 400 towers without us noticing and takes all of Querious and Delve in four or five days before everyone can get to Delve to defend!  Oh no, wait...

Cippa will know better than me about PL's reaction in such an event - by definition we tend to see a certain subset of PL posting on the Goonswarm boards - but I don't see the people from across the coalition - Phreeze, Imperian, theAdj, Shamis, MrRive, Fred0 et al - just sitting back and letting Kenny back like that.  And we'll soon enough have 8 or 9 sov four constellations, spiralling numbers of titans, a chicken in every pot and a vagabond in every space-garage.

[Sir T]

There's been enough irritation between the RAWR rank and file and GS pilots that it might have seem reasonable to tire them out -- a few more bailouts and they might have had enough, call the job done, reset GS and go back to fighting TRI et al.

Given the recent string of victories this is more than unlikely by now.

I havent seen a trace of this irritation you are speaking of. Hell if its one alliance from the north that has pilots Xing up to be IN fleets with goons, its RAWR. Sorry and all but screenshot of forum porn does not equial everyone being at one anothers throats. I would not trust what your leaders are telling you on that score.

And anyway that page said nothing much about being sick of goons, just had pilots venting some war weariness, which everyone from Sun Tzu forward knew was healthy. Basing your entire war stratagy on the fact that some enemy soldiers are bitching has always been a good idea You want me to quote the last 2 weeks of goons saying we should pile into 49-?  

[Endie]

Himo I think you are confusing Rawr (Morsus Mihi) with Razor.  On this very board we've got a MM member describing how the apparent unwillingness of Goons to log in 2 weeks ago was causing discontent.  Yes, they're Xing up in good numbers now, but they were definitely the most dissatisfied with us during our lapse.  AAA spies were reporting back their forum chatter on this and it apparently raised Kenny morale at the time, with hopes of a split.

Razor are the "one alliance from the north that has pilots Xing up to be IN fleets with goons."  Ther tolerance for our fickleness provided a real backbone when we needed them.

[Sir T]

Jezus, I went through all this time thinking that RAWR was the ticker for Razor!! 

 

[rand]

Razor owns, phreeze is a pretty chill guy. Never seen MM guys have any problems with us while in fleet, not sure what the fuss is about

[Nevermore]

So what ended up happening to United Legion?  Weren't they allied with Goons/RA/TCF?  Looks like they just up and disappeared recently.

[Sir T]

So what ended up happening to United Legion?  Weren't they allied with Goons/RA/TCF?  Looks like they just up and disappeared recently.

They were overran by Atlas/Agression and AAA. Atlas and Aggression have both bloated up with people fleeing the GBC over the past number of months, so they are, on paper, large and powerful. UNL had a cast iron offer to come to Querious and Delve, but UNL seems to have wanted to fight it out on their own, but their leader had to go inactive due to RL stuff and the rest seems to have collapsed due to internal drama and infiltration by their enemies. They may be off to geminate, but its more likely they will split apart.

[Predator Irl]

In other news, Legion of xXDEATHXx lost a titan in 1V-LI2 to Atlas Alliance today. It seems like they hot-dropped the titan with a large dread fleet.

[Jayce]

Strange, it's like Atlas has become competent or something.

[Trigona]

Morsus Mihi does not have the participation of Razor but we have supplied some very useful FCs, most notably Imperian.  Being based at 1IY is much better than our previous base of UHKL and probably helps MM membership a lot.  Our presence down south is more based on a lets kill Kenny mantra rather than a deep abiding love of the goons.   

Our main issue since the taking of Period Basis has been our leaders not giving us a plan.  It's hard to get motivated if it seems that you're just locked into a permanent stalemate.  Fortunately Kenny's forays into Goon space have been so sad that they have defined the strategy themselves, which is now to mop up all red space and leave them camped in their 2 remaining station systems.

Razor has been the backbone of Goon support, MM for its own selfish reasons seem to want Goons to equally participate - how me me me.

One of the interesting aspects of the recent H74 battle was the guts of KIA to jump into a system loaded with reds.  This has in the past been a death wish, kudos to them, because their success meant that the spamming of towers failed.  The allies have been essential to the goons success but it's the goons that bring the numbers, not just in sub caps but in caps themselves.  When they are present, in a big way, the result is rarely in doubt

[Endie]

I don't think that there is a goon (well, a forum-reading goon) who is not aware and appreciative of the efforts of our allies, especially in bolstering us when we wobbled a few weeks ago.

As a euro goon I have a bit of that feelibg trigona describes: when we siege and kite enemies outnumbered there is nothing as disappointing as getting up, checking the forums, and finding out that us goons didn't maximise the results.

[Phildo]

Your friends in LOVEU have just dropped an outpost in Delve.  Thought the rest of you guys would like to know.

[Pezzle]

Go go Loveu?  Do I have docking rights?

[Comstar]

The comedy value of giving CVA docking rights in the middle of Delve station and having Evil Thug find out about it would be hilarious.

[sanctuary]

Hippoking on shitheap llinked this battle. Haha! That is pure awesome. God it would be better if that was a goon multi boxing.

[JustinMead]

Its pretty cool looking at all the attributes of the coalition.

PL are here, more on a leadership level (kinda). The most members PL+SoT have brought together down south was about 75-80 in fleet, our average is much smaller though. The use of our titans seemed to have rubbed off on other alliance, which is good. The #1 mistake BoB made was letting us fester up in fountain and gather jew gold.

I've seen MM add some really great numbers to coalition fleets, I don't really have numbers but its in the 100+. There pretty solid, with Imperian being a decent FC.

During the coalitions little moral slouch, RZR was the backbone of the fleets. They propped goons up pretty nice, with Phreeze also being a decent FC.

Goons are putting forth a lot of the isk for this, JB's, sov4 outposts, ect ect. They turned out huge for the i1y push, bringing 300+.

TCF have always been solid, not afraid to use there titans, but I really don't know much about them. They prefer to use there own ts, they like to be alien :P

KIA secured PB, although they add little numbers to the fleets, there not afraid to lose caps or jump into retardedly(lol) high lag situations.

if anyone wants to add to this go ahead, I was bored so I started typing  

[Phildo]

ZAF, much like KIA, has been gutsy beyond their size in helping to secure PB.

And Sanctuary, that IS a Goon multi-boxing.

[Endie]

Go go Loveu?  Do I have docking rights?

I had TPAR to myself as pretty much a personal fiefdom for a month or so (without knowing that there was an unmined high-end moon in the system ), and eventually gave it back because it cost money to fuel and I was bored of being a station owner.  But at one point, a couple of days after wormholes, a guy from Aegis Militia got dumped into the system from a pretty rough wormhole expedition, so for old times' sake I gave him standings and docking rights long enough to dock, repair and buy some new drones (you should try being a Goon and persuading someone that it's actually safe for them to warp their BS to the station and that they'll be able to dock, and no it's neither a scam nor a trap).

[Yoru]

Because goons can't read:

Multiboxing digression: over here

[Endie]

Goons, PL and Razor just killed an R64 belonging to AAA, in lowsec Khanid.  I'm mildly bemused as to why AAA didn't try to defend it when it came out in what is late afternoon top early evening for them (I dunno if they have any Pacific seaboard numbers in the east vOv) but a bad TZ for Euros and an absolutely terrible one for Americans.  Maybe they are focussed on launching another attack and are not to be put off again by an R64 as they were in I1Y?

Also, Systematic Chaos and the Romanians are supposedly attacking Period Basis to take the heat off Kenny.  Considering how bad Sys-K are, and the aggressive but unsuccessful attacks of the Romanians, i can't imagine that they won't be bringing huge numbers of allies with them to help.  Especially as Period Basis isn't exactly a capital-friendly destination from Staion, Paragon Soul or Esoteria, while I can even get my Rorq down there to TPAR in two jumps from Querious with a third of a jump to spare, while I can get anywhere in the whole region in two in MY CARRIER, so it's not going to work very well as a ping-pong strategy (JDC V crew checking in.  Your space-milage may vary.  Terms and conditions apply.)

[Thrawn]

Fun fact - between 2 systems and 2-3? days TCF and Goons have doomsdayed close to 5,000 ships. 

[Murgos]

Fun fact - between 2 systems and 2-3? days TCF and Goons have doomsdayed close to 5,000 ships.  

How the hell did you derive that number?

NM, bored titan pilots have fun, news at 11.

Edit: Also, in related news, server crash imminent.

[Raging Turtle]

Fun fact - between 2 systems and 2-3? days TCF and Goons have doomsdayed close to 5,000 ships. 

But how many of those were actually the enemy?   

[Thrawn]

Fun fact - between 2 systems and 2-3? days TCF and Goons have doomsdayed close to 5,000 ships.  

But how many of those were actually the enemy?  

I don't think any of them even had pilots.  

Was just a bunch of shuttles and then TCF answered by DDing even more shuttles to show Goons up.  I fully expect Goons to answer again with some crazy number of shuttles.  I think it's also a testament to how well the War is going this past week or two for Goons and friends that they have nothing better to do then buy, move, deploy and DD shuttles.   

[Arthur_Parker]

Mittani posted some forum porn.  Some EXE guy lays into EXE's leader Mo'Chusile in a major way, quoting part of it below.

Molle/BoB's leadership Since Z-M there have only been 2 reasonable conclusions that are supported by the indisputable facts. Recap them for you shall I? (fake edit who's fucking writing this, yoda??). PB was lost in a weekend. It is a record for the fastest fall of a sov 4 constellation in eve history. Aside from being yet another example of making a plan and not sticking to it ("let PB fall, focus on Querious" 2 days later "oh shit DEFEND PB")

This came about because Molle called for the jammer to be cycled. Either he is frighteningly incompetent and so continuing to follow an agenda of which is set by him is this. Or an almost equally awful conclusion, it was done on purpose to sabotage any defence, the rationale being if the carebears have no where to rat / mine then they will turn up to ops (which never works btw, people who turn up are always the same faces; having no where to rat or mine doesn't change peoples preferences and doesn't increase participation and hideously self inflicted defeats do hurt participation).

Lack of direction: Vague, platitudinous bullshit like you just posted about "in a couple of weeks something unspecified" is exactly what I'm talking about. Pick a goal for fucks sake, preferably an achievable one that can be acted on soon. There are plenty of low sec high ends that still with in the tactical capability of this alliance, to be taken & towered by EXE for EXE's benefit. It wouldn't stop you asking BoB for manpower while doing this. What might stop you is the answer would, once and for all, define whether they see EXE as a partner or a servant. Afterall, noone wants to find out that it's not actually dark, it's that your head is stuck in an elephants butt.

Op participation While the goal of getting 50 EXE dread's is both laudable, and shows a real commitment on your part (subsidising it as massively as you have), I think you'll find the Wright brothers focused on staying in the air for a bit, before planning the the business class menu for the 1st transatlantic flight. You don't get 50 EXE pilots in a fleet now so perhaps that might be a better goal to pursue before you even concern yourself what they turn up in.

How are you going to do that? Well not the way you have been doing it, cos muttering in corp and the odd, angry alliance mail doesn't cut it. Take advice from Machiavelli, if you can't be loved and feared, the latter will do the trick every time. If your not feeling ruthless enough to start kicking the parasites, delegate it to someone who has the moral conscience of a dog on a croquet lawn (o/ speedie), who will.

Lastly one of the best things about this alliance was always the industrial backbone and the fleet shop. If I have heard correctly, then you fell out with Issy and she is to depart us accompanied by a significant chunk of the industrial guys & gals. If this is a personal issue between the 2 of you, them Mo, you need to grow a pair then kiss & make up. Yup, Issy is a bit emo, but that who she is, get used to it.

Why? Cos time after time she get the job done, and believe it or not it is the outcome the counts.

Edit more here.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1094012

[trevorreznik]

Mo'chuisle is actually pretty cool, he's a longtime SA guy and is fairly goony