War

[IainC]

AJRegard post on SHC

[Pezzle]

Oh, you don't mind if I post that Spoon/fork tower takedown for our TLOS guys do you?  (The legion of Spoon)  They might take issue with the association :P

[Endie]

Impressively, Molle is telling everyone that we are about to jump into 49- and that everyone must get there asap.  They have managed to get up to 350 logged in, are anchoring bubbles on the gates, are logging several titans in, and setting up dictors round the jammer and gates, cloaked.

The fact is, of course, that he knows perfectly well (unless he has no intel/TS spies at all and cannot read our forums) that we have no intention of going to 49-.  But he was talking earlier about the need to spin this, and I suppose that "we faced them down and stupid goonies ran like little children at the gates of 49-" is as good as it will get now that our tower is safely in place on 33% of their R64s.  I wonder if his pets will fall for this great victory.

[Cippalippus]

AJRegard post on SHC

Moderated... what did it say?

[Endie]

AJRegard post on SHC

Moderated... what did it say?

It was the classic picture of Comical Ali with the text "Everything giong to plan" or something similar underneath.  As a self-aware AJ Regard post it actually appears in the book of Revelations as one of the End Signs.

[Pezzle]

They let his other pure shit posts pass and mod THAT ONE???  What the fuck?

As an aside we might have to start serious recruiting for The West soon.  High Internet Drama is developing. 

Second Aside.  The pic I was asking about was from CAOD, sorry.  I think TLOS high command was amused (they are very anti fork)

[MahrinSkel]

A better strategy might have been to strongarm Stainwagon out of Paragon Soul/Esoteria, or simply take some space from someone (while they still had members and participation) and live next door with actual space and income and places for members to ride bikes.  They could have supported an indefinite war effort then, and might have one day even succeeded.  At this point, though, it seems like sooner or later they will fall apart.

While the Goons were still making themselves secure in Delve, RKZ should have expanded their remnant in southern and central Querious (I1Y, Z-U, 49-U, H74) to secure Period Basis for a siege.  It probably wouldn't have worked, but it was their best chance.  With no 0.0 space to exploit except for whatever R64 moons they happen to be holding at any one moment, the entire war is "out of pocket" for the members of the fleets, with no real prospect of replenishing them.  They focused too much on the concentrated wealth of the R64's, which feed massive projects like supercaps and outposts, and forgot that the bulk of an alliance's wealth-generation is always diffused through the wallets of the membership (even in completely communist corps like Evol).  No controlled space, no ratting, mining, or Exploration, no income, no fleet when the hangars are bare.

If a core RKZ corp splits, the end will be rapid.  Otherwise it will just be a slow grinding away as more and more peripheral members, corps, and alliances head off to make their own way because they have nothing left to fight *with*.  But it would take a minor miracle for anything resembling "victory" for RKZ to emerge.

--Dave

[Sir T]

As an aside apparently Orange Species logged in, titan and all, tonight.

In NOL.

If Our FC is to be believed, He started screaming "What the hell? What happened to sov... That's a Goon Deathstar!!! WHAT THE FUCK?"

Mollie : Don't worry, we'll get it back...

O S "HOW THE FUCK DID WE LOSE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE???"

Don't know if he was bullshitting us, but its a great image.

[Trebes]

Don't know if he was bullshitting us, but its a great image.

Even I know he was bullshitting you.

[rand]

1 hostile tower left in H74, so much for that. No fucking idea where they're going to go from here, their morale must be shattered. Maybe they're going to wait for backup from the mighty Atlas alliance before the next push

[Pax]

Someone on TS just shared a GKC comment from italian CAOD stating that the big push would have been successful if it started 2 hours earlier.
Perhaps they would have brough stronth then?

[setar]

They brought stront ;-) Just didn't have system control long enough.. it takes time to deply and online POS, set up modules, fuel, stront. Might have also made sense to ninja them in using a hauler fleet while the jammer was under attack, but I do understand the decision.

I think it's rather simple, really: both response time and turnout on the coalition side was simply excellent, and setting up POS in a contested system is difficult. So.. attacking multiple systems in parallel (JBs, R64) didn't work, an all-out spam of a single system did not work either. Should be interesting what's up next.

[Jayce]

1 hostile tower left in H74, so much for that. No fucking idea where they're going to go from here, their morale must be shattered. Maybe they're going to wait for backup from the mighty Atlas alliance before the next push

It's all on Atlas' shoulders amirite?

[eldaec]

I think Ken's membership numbers are starting to fall again, they'd stabilised throughout April and early May a little below 2700.

They seem to be losing around 10 a day atm, currently on 2550.

[JustinMead]

KenZoku [RKZ] - Members: 2552 (-1 since last update) (-49 in the last 14 days) Corps: 16 Sov Systems: 13 Stations: 2

[Endie]

I think it's rather simple, really: both response time and turnout on the coalition side was simply excellent, and setting up POS in a contested system is difficult. So.. attacking multiple systems in parallel (JBs, R64) didn't work, an all-out spam of a single system did not work either. Should be interesting what's up next.

The slightly  annoying thing is that we had everything ready to roll and should have hot-dropped the hostile dread fleet, but we waited long enough for them to catch a whiff of what we'd assembled and they scarpered, losing only a small number of carriers.

Anyway, all 28 or so of the towers dropped in the H74 offensive are now purged.  Once the last one dropped, Kenny decided that they would celebrate being free of the chains of pos warfare by demonstrating the newly increased danger of their ~wulfpax~

Remember to use the download button on this link and watch the full video (btw the guy who did the video is in the F13 Goonswarm corp, and is one of our range of great new FCs).

Anyone experienced watching this will immediately know what is going to happen, and will be left asking themselves why they fell for it...

Spoiler for those on slow links, who need an explanation of what is happening, or who can't be bothered playing the "what happens next?" game:

[Pax]

According to fleet chat that roaming ~wulfpax~ gang was first sighted in C3N and was therefore going to 49-, not coming from there.
Which means that they were killed 1 jump before reaching home.
I don't know, which is more hilarious, though 

[Sir T]

As a kicker, 5V is the first system that the Kenny roaming gang had gone to after leaving 49-.  Their nice, relaxing roam lasted one jump.

Actually happened in 8qt, a Beach boys sov 3 system one jump from 49-, for added humiliation. It was on the SVM gate.

[Pezzle]

The moment I saw those hostiles I wondered how many DD's were inbound.  Being fair, yea, you can lose track of the field.  That was obvious bait.  I do not know the local count or if they had areas scouted.  When you jump into bait like that you either burn out of a bubble while firing (so you can warp off) or close on gate without aggro so you can leave.  I am not sure they were doing either?  When on a gate and bubbled the only people orbiting targets should be fast tackle.  Maybe they were burning out but not aligned to a warp?  Hard to say.  Mistakes happen :P

[Endie]

As a kicker, 5V is the first system that the Kenny roaming gang had gone to after leaving 49-.  Their nice, relaxing roam lasted one jump.

Actually happened in 8qt, a Beach boys sov 3 system one jump from 49-, for added humiliation. It was on the SVM gate.

Oops.  Y'all be right.

[MahrinSkel]

Inexperienced FC is most likely.  BoB never had a "farm team" for training up FC's, tactical command was very tightly held by a handful of veterans that had been in BoB forever, and BoB focused on provoking "big fights" almost as much out of doctrinal necessity as anything else because there was no division between strategic and tactical chain of command and they didn't have the attentional bandwidth for fighting in multiple systems at once.  Even when they went raiding, anything over a dozen ships would quickly be taken over by one of those senior FC's, or turned into an all-alliance "road trip".  In mass ops with multiple elements, subordinate commanders would mostly be responsible for maintaining their group's coherence and delivering it to the overall commander when requested, they didn't have independent authority or initiative.  When they found out MC and FIX FC's were commanding combined fleets interchangeably, they thought it was nuts (they wouldn't let anyone but Seleene command a fleet with a significant BoB presence).  They also *never* explained orders or answered questions about them, which eliminated the opportunities for bright newcomers to learn some of the tricks by osmosis.  If you weren't an FC or a scout (and the overwhelming majority of their covert ops were FC alts), you were expected to do what you were told when you were told, and focus only on finding the targets as they were called out or alignment destinations.

So either they've lost enough of that veteran corps to stretch their ability to exercise command thin, the "the front is everywhere" Goon tactics they're trying to adopt are overwhelming their OODA loop, or this was a one-off, the FC wanted/needed to log and turned command over to a caretaker to bring the fleet back (which still could be a sign of the other two, because they normally would never turn it over to anyone but another experienced FC).

--Dave

[Arthur_Parker]

linky

It's not just that your coalition has become a joke, made up of failed alliances and propped up by foreign powers who hold you in utter contempt. It's not just that you can't even take down a jammer or invade a system without screwing up horribly. No, Molle, what's truly hilarious about your utter failure in H74 over the past 'two weeks' (if we are generous and deem a day a week to salvage some pride in your 'new offensive') is that you had to de-tower nearly every system you invested towers in during your previous failed offensive in order to make a play for H74 - which isn't the sort of thing that an alliance whose sycophants constantly bleat about 'endless isk reserves' would do.

It's the sort of move an alliance who only controls two R64s would do. The sort of move an alliance whose every strategic move recently has been a desperate attempt to recapture or defend moon income. The kind of move made by the poor and desperate, in other words.

What, does this mean all the mewling about T2 Bpo income (nevermind the profit margins are nominal due to invention) or Empire Missionrunning (what, you expect to fund an alliance with missions?) is a lie? A shill? How could this be?

You had 33 towers in P4. You took down all but two. Your extra towers in 'FakeDelve'? Down. Your pets are stripping A-B and ES-Q. It's amusing, if I had realized that you had to take down your towers elsewhere to make up for your failed play in H74, I'd have mocked you for it yesterday - but we were too busy watching every last tower you placed in H74 transform into a killmail. Your remaining towers in P4 have since been sieged, of course.

H74 is hellpurged. You told us that you'd 'show us what a real hellpurge' was when you attacked I1Y, remember? We're still waiting.

Not that obliterating everything you invested in H74 completely occupied us. No, we were busy outside of H74 as well, destroying over 30 towers in various scenic locales in Querious. ZAU, 5V, QXQ, M1BZ, C-7, UQY, etc. But then those were mostly 'pet' towers, and so you didn't show up to try to defend any of them, just your R64 in 5V.

That was where you had hoped to salvage a silver lining to the H74 debacle. You could have said "Sure, we lost H74, but we defended 5V. We haven't lost any ground, they're still on the defensive." You mustered your dread fleet - an entire 60 capitals! Of course, most of them were those pets you hadn't bothered defending recently. And we had 196 in our capital fleet.

Your R64 died in a minute and a half under the guns of ~150 dreadnaughts. Your fleets panicked and scampered back to 49, terrified that your last bastion would soon be invaded - but we were too busy burning the fields around your castle. 33% of your alliance income is gone - but don't worry, in the minds of most of your members (who you have kept so scrupulously ignorant) t2 bpo 'income' and missionrunning will save KenZoku yet.

Seems Kenny is really on the the ropes now.

[JustinMead]

Most of that is propaganda. They have limitless pockets.

[Endie]

Something less strategic.

We went on a celebratory slosh op roam, which led to Evil Thug's perennial nightmare: us invading Catch again.  I was getting tired of us playing undock games with carriers, baiting a titan, and waiting for a freighter to jump-bridge into the system from HED, so I decided to burn back in my inty via 49- (very safe these days), but in the next system over I found Blaster Worm and a couple of other AAA pilots.

Blaster Worm being a little too convinced of the awfulness of goons, and AAA having a TS spy in channel, I decided to rejoin the fleet.   Good hunch: the freighter jumped in and Blaster and friends immediately jumped in via the gate, and hostiles spiked to fifteen.  The Charon gets webwarped to what looks like a private pos, but doesn't have the password, warps back to the JB pos, again outside the shields, and back again to what seems to be a private POS with three or four blasters as guns, none with ammo.  He again doesn't have the password right, lands outside the shields, and gets tackled before webwarping out again.

The freighter dies, together with a large number of capital parts (about a full week for a producer), and Blaster (or whoever is FCing him) comes in and dribbles recons and hacs in piecemeal, one every twenty seconds or so, with predictable consequences.

The Erebus eventually doomsdays us, catching a battlebadger and three very incompetent inties (of whom I was not one, I wish to stress).

In more boring news we killed at least twenty towers today (killmails go missing) and we eventually ran out of targets.

[Sir T]

I wish to protest this highly inaccurate and filthy piece of goon propaganda. I shall now set the record straight.

The Doomsday also killed a cov ops frig.

There you go. Endie should be ashamed of himself. 

[Pezzle]

6/6/....9

CVA led forces INVADE Catch







...in OMENS OF DOOM!  A few pew pew fights are had against superior forces.  An AAA Faction Heavy gang is spotted somewhere.  We break out a bit better than even (haha Omens!)

[rand]

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1092048

aren't these the guys that were getting owned by EXE rejects Aggression and had to get TCF to bail them out? apparently they're resetting the NC and RA, so RA might be surrounded by hostiles (other than kraftwerk and Solar) now

[Meester]

 What the hell do Kraftwerk actually do anyway? It looks like they a producer alliance for Red Alliance etc. I could be wrong of course but by their name, they are mostly german?

[Meester]

What the hell do Kraftwerk actually do anyway? It looks like they are a producer alliance for Red Alliance etc. I could be wrong of course but by their name, they are mostly german?

[Slayerik]

What the hell do Kraftwerk actually do anyway? It looks like they a producer alliance for Red Alliance etc. I could be wrong of course but by their name, they are mostly german?

[Phildo]

Yes, Kraftwerk are a producer alliance although a few of their members are also pretty talented PvPers.  Anyway, Sc0rched Earth used to help us out in the South before we moved to Delve but I thought they'd reset standings MONTHS ago.  Anyway, I'd suspect they're allied with IRC/ED now?

[Arthur_Parker]

Most of that is propaganda. They have limitless pockets.

I really don't think The Mittani is going to be posting propaganda on the official Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions forms.
 

  I thought the pulling towers bit was interesting, the isk conversation is pointless because nobody knows for sure.

[rand]

According to scrapheap, sc0rched earth is hitting tcf POS'es in Wicked Creek with Atlas and appears to have joined their bloc (that might invade RA), a month after TCF rescued them from Aggression. What a bunch of faggots

[Endie]

Frontal Impact have negotiated the chance to withdraw their towers and claim that they want to explore wormspace.

Skunk Works have now lost half their members in a week.

Kenny may or may not be relocating to Delve NPC space from 49- (lol Interdiction).  They are certainly replacing larges in 49- with smalls.

And with a healthy dose of scepticism, the following from russian caod:

(7:33:14 PM) P.D.: Blaster Worm: "We tired in battle for Querious, Kenny can't collect enough numbers to fight. So AAA gonna get some vacation."

Update: ROL are moving their dreads out of 49-.  Whether it's just a road trip up north to help Tri again, offensive or abandoning Kenny or whatever I dunno...

Edit: like most on GF, I should stress that I can't see anything that looks more like an attempt to buy a victory by getting us to attack a titaned-up 49- vOv

[Sir T]

Since we have diped into Russian CAOD, heres something from ET (Transcribers comments are like this)

(some KB with some totally different war goes here)

I want to say a couple of words.

The Querious situation exhausted us, and we have given the alliance a small break. There is a well known phenomenon called postwar syndrome, where, after the stresses of a war, real life seems unreal and strange. Something like that is going on in EVE right now. During the "peaceful" days, before the
attack on H74, we also took a break and had some good pew, but the thought of going back to the trenches was always in the back of my mind. A lot of the pleasure of the pew (we took a frigate gang into Providence and scored 100+ kills) was erased because of that.

This time around, when once again we got some mass pew without lag, scum and hatred, with goodfights and well executed tactics, something hit me. A half year ago, EVE was like that for us all the time. We pewed with our neighbors for sport. Yeah, we killed nearby alliances, but this is a game - people who can do that do it and the losers start over. Today, we have tons of hatred and rage, victory at any cost and by any means necessary.

Reading hostile forums as part of CEO-dom, I can't get used to the other side's (lolgoons) concentrated hatred of their enemies. "Burn", "trample", "censored" and "censored" [yes he actually types this out] - from post to post, from topic to topic. I won't repost this stuff - those who read it know, the rest are better off without it. I see that people don't realize the difference between a callout and aggression, between sporting competition and hatred, between prevailing over the enemy and his total annihilation.

How did we always see politics in LGK? The most important thing was to have the biggest amount of targets. For talented soloers, for roaming gangs, for gangs of 100+, and for random inter-corp pew, nobody needs a cobalt POS [think he means faction POS?] or to have good constellations. Yes, as guardians of the forest, we periodically pruned the dying and useless alliances. New ones arose in their place, their leaders learned, and now ex-KOS are burning their full share of napalm as part of PL.

When I look at the black and white universe of the "other" side, who almost never flies fun roaming ops, doesn't have friends (just uses their allies), doesn't play for sport but hates and wants blood (and doesn't hesitate to cross over into IRL in any situation as soon as it becomes possible), I get an unpleasant feeling. I don't see the "other" side having any fun-pvp alliances who fight for pleasure. It's possible that I'm not reading all their forums and don't know their internal life well, but what I see is a muddy stream of teenage aggression and the desire to pay back for childish hurts.

I think that we can keep this in check and we have a lot of good days on the hospitable front lawns of Providence ahead of us. There's a long time until we get there, and things could always get worse, but as they say, to live is to hope.

In other words. "I jumped into a war for real life money, I lost repeatedly, I now realize I bet on the wrong horse, and now I want to save face and claim the moral high ground by running out of this quagmire like a bitch and claiming the other side won't because they take this PVP biz too seriously and hate hate hate."

Russian CAOD reply:

Oho...ET's wall of text is in the emo style of the tired paladin. Are things really that bad?

And by the way

Yes, as guardians of the forest, we periodically pruned the dying and useless alliances.

What a complete fucking wanker. Thank you.