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Nerf
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Reply #3955 on: February 10, 2009, 01:43:21 PM

A couple of hours of fights vs Kenny so far in QY6, it has been total slaughter :D

A slaughter, dude, we're getting raped!
http://killboard.net/fleetbattle/3550
 awesome, for real
Thrawn
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Reply #3956 on: February 10, 2009, 01:54:00 PM

A slaughter, dude, we're getting raped!
http://killboard.net/fleetbattle/3550
 awesome, for real

That battle report is a confusing mess, I see almost every alliance listed at least once on the allied AND enemy sides.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Endie
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Reply #3957 on: February 10, 2009, 02:19:05 PM

Yeah, Kenny have made the clever move of dropping their participation to a fraction of their fleets then not counting their allies' deaths.  This definitely makes for accurate killboards.

We are graping their fleets, killing their towers slap bang in the middle of their prime, defending our own in the middle of our prime (some of the last two at the same time as each other), and taking station system majority in multiple systems.

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trevorreznik
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Reply #3958 on: February 10, 2009, 02:28:52 PM

It's amazing how few BoB names I recognize on the KBs.

I assume GS is up 11-10 in PUIG now due to winning today, and mostly secure QY6 tonight (they need another day to get to 51% large though).  Add that to SVM as well, and BoB has 51% majority in the other 3 stations in that constellation (or close in the case of J-L).  Is that right?
Endie
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Reply #3959 on: February 10, 2009, 02:40:57 PM

It's amazing how few BoB names I recognize on the KBs.

I assume GS is up 11-10 in PUIG now due to winning today, and mostly secure QY6 tonight (they need another day to get to 51% large though).  Add that to SVM as well, and BoB has 51% majority in the other 3 stations in that constellation (or close in the case of J-L).  Is that right?

 I agree.  There are a few old names like Tazman and Lord Wartron, but Bob as a whole are hardly showing up, and mainly they are the newer pet-skimmings.  I thought at first that they were holding back for a huge dread hotdrop, but maybe I am giving them too much credit.

Re towers, something along those lines, but not quite right.

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Endie
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Reply #3960 on: February 10, 2009, 04:17:26 PM

Last fight of my evening was in PUIG, where Bob tried to ambush us by titan-bridging in a fleet onto a gate to attack us as we headed to blow up their medium POS.  They died so quickly that I quite literally couldn't lock stuff fast enough. Despite having quaternary targets being called, I only got on about ten kills or so in that fight.

That was the story of the night, though.  Jumping into a gatecamp and not being able to shoot the two field command ships or the phobos sitting at zero because they melted so fast is a new experience.

The other theme was never being bubbled by hostiles, it seems.  At one point, I aligned and just took the fire from an Exe/Bob fleet in MY ROKH, tank holding for ages then warping out when I got to 10% shields.  Shooting untackled Rokhs with the only half-dozen BS that can reach them at 210km while they happily speed along on alignment is not great tactics.  What would their master ~Sun Tzu~ have said?

Oh, there was a third pattern: BCs.  When we ran out of BS I would swap to an all hostiles overview and it would be a mass of drakes and hurricanes.  Maybe they've decided on a sustainable Goon strategy of only losing insurable stuff?  Or maybe pets are deciding against betting the house on this.  I dunno.  All I know is that DBRB's dog was in feral mood, and that is always good.

I fully expect now to wake up to a horrible hot drop  swamp poop  But for tonight I go to bed happy.

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Sir T
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Reply #3961 on: February 10, 2009, 05:03:11 PM

0oy got cleared out today, which is the 3rd toughest station to break in the south that I know of (7 moons, jv1v=4, 1v-=5). 

IF ITS DEFENDED

Which it wasn't. If its not defended its one of the easiest. So I would hardly give yourself a pat on the back, frankly.

In any case tonight was the first time I got into the fight seriously and it was quite fun. Endie is incorrect that our fleet was never bubbled. It was in at least one point, during a close range brawl with the whole Kenny etc. fleet (though I'm not sure if it was an enemy or friendly bubble). Enemy numbers are definably dropping, bieng down roughly 30 - 40% since the first day of the invasion. They also seem pretty desperate for a victory. Any victory. And from what I can see they are concentrating almost totally on Goons, possibly perceiving us as the easiest to knock out. Or perhaps prove that this whole thing is a mistake and they are really the best despite it all. *shrug*

All in all I am amazed it is going so well, from the logistics of the move to the huge efforts put in by everyone. On a personal level I am proud to be a part of this.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 06:28:47 PM by Sir T »

Hic sunt dracones.
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #3962 on: February 10, 2009, 06:32:44 PM

AAA have come out of this thing as winners though, whether they deserve it or not.
Fordel
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Reply #3963 on: February 10, 2009, 06:33:38 PM

Focusing on Goons is like, the worst thing you could do. That just feeds the 'roflfires' or whatever they call it.


The best defense strategy would be finding ways to keep their stuff safe, while keeping the goons as bored as humanly possible.


Of course, I have no real notion of how you would accomplish both currently.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Sir T
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Reply #3964 on: February 10, 2009, 06:38:59 PM

The last time they basically sat camping NOL and PR- for 3 months Only leaving to blob the crap out of any system under attack, till everyone got bored of the whole thing.

Of course then they could hide under cynojammers with titans.

Hic sunt dracones.
trevorreznik
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Reply #3965 on: February 10, 2009, 08:04:35 PM

0oy got cleared out today, which is the 3rd toughest station to break in the south that I know of (7 moons, jv1v=4, 1v-=5). 

IF ITS DEFENDED

Which it wasn't. If its not defended its one of the easiest. So I would hardly give yourself a pat on the back, frankly.


whoa calm down.  I still expect GS to defend some areas, specifically those with CSAAs, so we'll see what happens.  This is the first station we've taken off GS in Feyth and is a Big Deal TM :)
Murgos
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Reply #3966 on: February 11, 2009, 05:30:11 AM

I still expect GS to defend some areas, specifically those with CSAAs, so we'll see what happens.

Not really.

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slog
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Reply #3967 on: February 11, 2009, 06:08:59 AM

I still expect GS to defend some areas, specifically those with CSAAs, so we'll see what happens.

Not really.

Agreed.  This is equivalent to Cortez burning his ships after he landed. 

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Endie
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Reply #3968 on: February 11, 2009, 06:38:04 AM

I still expect GS to defend some areas, specifically those with CSAAs, so we'll see what happens.

Not really.

Agreed.  This is equivalent to Cortez burning his ships after he landed. 

I thought of it more as longboats and Vikings, but then Cortez has those nice overtones of exterminating the local native population in search of gold and lols that is attractive to a Goon.

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Endie
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Reply #3969 on: February 11, 2009, 06:48:57 AM

Proper news:  a mixed PL/GF fleet jst blew up a Kenny POS in QY6 that came out after downtime, and it is replaced, complete with patrolling fleet conga line.  GG next map.  More towers to come today, be interesting which ones Kenny and Barbie defend.

Fake Edit and Supersecret fleet leak:

Quote
xxXXAngelXXxx: it's bad when starting up a conga line is harder than blowing up a bob pos

Real edit: Kenny just jumped a Rhea (a super-expensive jump freighter) to a POS when it wasn't in the right corp/alliance and got it blown up.  I am sure they will pull themselves together soon, but at the moment it's like they have Yakkity Sax playing on their Teamspeak or something.

Edit: here we go.  I expected them to delete the killmail, but of course it counts as a kill for them so K:D means it stays  awesome, for real

http://killboard.net/details/304020/
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 07:25:56 AM by Endie »

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Thrawn
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Reply #3970 on: February 11, 2009, 07:18:49 AM

Real edit: Kenny just jumped a Rhea (a super-expensive jump freighter) to a POS when it wasn't in the right corp/alliance and got it blown up.  I am sure they will pull themselves together soon, but at the moment it's like they have Yakkity Sax playing on their Teamspeak or something.

Damn, I missed a JF kill.  swamp poop  That's one type of ship I've never helped blow up before.

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Goumindong
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Reply #3971 on: February 11, 2009, 07:41:13 AM


Real edit: Kenny just jumped a Rhea (a super-expensive jump freighter) to a POS when it wasn't in the right corp/alliance and got it blown up.  I am sure they will pull themselves together soon, but at the moment it's like they have Yakkity Sax playing on their Teamspeak or something.


It should be noted that on MRCHI TS chan, one of the guys always plays Yakkity Sax whenever anything happens.
Comstar
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Reply #3972 on: February 11, 2009, 08:01:20 AM

Kenny CSAA tower just got destroyed- rumors are it had a Titan inside being built for Bobby Atlas.

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Koyochi
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Reply #3973 on: February 11, 2009, 08:22:10 AM

Is GS planning to ditch all the territory in the south-east and move over to the ex-bob area ? I concluded something like that from a gs victory speech right afhter the bob sov takedown, but had no idea how real that content was. But when I look at the influence map (my only real means of information outside my own little corner) it seems that GS is slowly losing all its current regions anyway ? It's cut in 2 pieces, and everyone around seems to be slowly eating parts away of it. Is this a desperate all-or-nothing move because it sounded like a fun way to do, or is it all a delibirate choice ?

-
Fordel
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Reply #3974 on: February 11, 2009, 08:28:46 AM

They're Goons, so the answer is somewhere between Yes and lol.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #3975 on: February 11, 2009, 08:46:00 AM

Is GS planning to ditch all the territory in the south-east and move over to the ex-bob area ? I concluded something like that from a gs victory speech right afhter the bob sov takedown, but had no idea how real that content was. But when I look at the influence map (my only real means of information outside my own little corner) it seems that GS is slowly losing all its current regions anyway ? It's cut in 2 pieces, and everyone around seems to be slowly eating parts away of it. Is this a desperate all-or-nothing move because it sounded like a fun way to do, or is it all a delibirate choice ?

I think the penalty for revealing Goon super secret forum stuff is death, so I can't comment on whether the widely-leaked speech by Goon overlord Darius Johnson was real or not. However, it sure sounds like the kind of thing he'd say.

We are abandoning all our space, get to Delve right now was the gist of it.
amiable
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Reply #3976 on: February 11, 2009, 09:00:36 AM

LOLZ!!!

Dianoblic claims the supercap just killed is a NYX (mothership) only to have
Mittani show that the records on Bob's own leaked directors forum indicate the ship was indeed a Titan.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=996346&page=2
trevorreznik
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Reply #3977 on: February 11, 2009, 10:11:32 AM

I still expect GS to defend some areas, specifically those with CSAAs, so we'll see what happens.

Not really.

Agreed.  This is equivalent to Cortez burning his ships after he landed. 

I thought of it more as longboats and Vikings, but then Cortez has those nice overtones of exterminating the local native population in search of gold and lols that is attractive to a Goon.

When -A- pos spammed T-A, Darius's immediate response was to say 'we'll defend t-a.'  That hasn't happened, but if (a big if) he has his own titan in build in XGH, I don't know what he'll do if that CSAA pos is shot at.  We'll find out when it happens.
jape
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Reply #3978 on: February 11, 2009, 11:03:03 AM

LOLZ!!!

Dianoblic claims the supercap just killed is a NYX (mothership) only to have
Mittani show that the records on Bob's own leaked directors forum indicate the ship was indeed a Titan.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=996346&page=2


Actually that thread show pretty much nothing concrete. (only fact you can get out of it is that goons believe it was a titan and bob says it was Nyx).
amiable
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Reply #3979 on: February 11, 2009, 11:20:00 AM

LOLZ!!!

Dianoblic claims the supercap just killed is a NYX (mothership) only to have
Mittani show that the records on Bob's own leaked directors forum indicate the ship was indeed a Titan.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=996346&page=2


Actually that thread show pretty much nothing concrete. (only fact you can get out of it is that goons believe it was a titan and bob says it was Nyx).

I went back and looked at the original BoB posts and either they state a Titan was being built there or BoB directors have a really, really bizzarre format for their building posts.  But hey, lets not turn F13 into a CAOD thread, so if you say it was a Nyx I will assume it was a Nyx. 
Endie
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Reply #3980 on: February 11, 2009, 11:35:10 AM

Soooo, Molly has called out Barbie en-masse to save Kenny: a red-pen mandatory op starting at downtime, allegedly intending to start using caps in the early evening.  Presumably their wish is to stick a dozen titans in a system along with 1000 retards in armour-tanking lavens and rely on lag and doomsdays to save them.  Obviously, this is not a sustainable approach, but the hope is presumably to forestall the cascade that will really begin if a third of their station systems in Delve fall next week.

The problem is that they need to achieve great things if they do something all-out like this: not only do they pretty much need to show that they can red-pen the pets into sufficient particpation to reinforce pretty much all our towers in the target systems, kiting them into Euro prime for the weekend.  Then they need to actually kill them.

And to Koyochi, yes this was entirely our choice: we'd rebuffed AAA, SE, ROL, Bob, Atlas, Exe and the rest of the GBC for months, and had begun offensive operations once our allies had begun to arrive.  We were pretty confident of some sort of a victory that was not limited to taking back the two station systems we'd lost over the couple of months on the defensive, and that we would keep the two we'd taken.  Not to mention that Bob would have had to leave for a long time anyway.  But Goonswarm isn't about space-territory.

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LC
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Reply #3981 on: February 11, 2009, 12:31:43 PM

Soooo, Molly has called out Barbie en-masse to save Kenny: a red-pen mandatory op starting at downtime, allegedly intending to start using caps in the early evening. 

BoB loves to use intimidation to keep the allies pets slaves in line. They have another secret forum that contains all of their interaction with the GBC. It contained a post that ranked all GBC corps/alliances by usefulness. Your corp/alliance would get a nice paragraph describing how useless it had been recently, and what you need to do to not lose your standings.
trevorreznik
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Reply #3982 on: February 11, 2009, 05:03:20 PM

And to Koyochi, yes this was entirely our choice: we'd rebuffed AAA, SE, ROL, Bob, Atlas, Exe and the rest of the GBC for months, and had begun offensive operations once our allies had begun to arrive.  We were pretty confident of some sort of a victory that was not limited to taking back the two station systems we'd lost over the couple of months on the defensive, and that we would keep the two we'd taken.  Not to mention that Bob would have had to leave for a long time anyway.  But Goonswarm isn't about space-territory.

Goonswarm historically had far lower numbers for doing ops to retake moon mining POSes, as opposed to taking stations.  I'm not sure how well retaking Eso would've gone.  Also don't forget that the two stations taken from ROL at the start of the war were unable to be cynojammed as they were only sov2.  Even then, GS failed to take ZS-/DB1 with pos spam against a sov2 system, and when it hit sov3, gave up.  In GHZ, a sov3 system, the big GS offensive petered out after a few days.  That's not to say that -A-/BoB+buds made great progress, either. Attacks on consov stations went nowhere, because even when 29 towers were blown up in DG- after sov3 was reset, GS was simply able to spam more towers than BoB was willing to. 

You may well have retaken everything and pushed -A- back into Stain, but there's no way to know now.  All we do know is that GS+buds took two sov2 stations and -A-+buds took two sov3 stations and the majority of the GS high end moons (roughly 2/3s of the total dyspro/prome), all of which were sov3 systems. 

I've thought that sov3 and jammers have been broken for a long time, and they pretty clearly are.  There isn't a single case I'm aware of where a competent alliance has lost while defending sov3 areas.  Some stations have been taken (qy6 last year from BoB), but that's about it.  Every successful offensive has simply been beating up on bad alliances-Bruce, Hydra, Smashkill, Iron, Pure. 
Endie
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Reply #3983 on: February 12, 2009, 05:18:10 AM

And to Koyochi, yes this was entirely our choice: we'd rebuffed AAA, SE, ROL, Bob, Atlas, Exe and the rest of the GBC for months, and had begun offensive operations once our allies had begun to arrive.  We were pretty confident of some sort of a victory that was not limited to taking back the two station systems we'd lost over the couple of months on the defensive, and that we would keep the two we'd taken.  Not to mention that Bob would have had to leave for a long time anyway.  But Goonswarm isn't about space-territory.

Goonswarm historically had far lower numbers for doing ops to retake moon mining POSes, as opposed to taking stations.  I'm not sure how well retaking Eso would've gone.  Also don't forget that the two stations taken from ROL at the start of the war were unable to be cynojammed as they were only sov2.  Even then, GS failed to take ZS-/DB1 with pos spam against a sov2 system, and when it hit sov3, gave up.  In GHZ, a sov3 system, the big GS offensive petered out after a few days.  That's not to say that -A-/BoB+buds made great progress, either. Attacks on consov stations went nowhere, because even when 29 towers were blown up in DG- after sov3 was reset, GS was simply able to spam more towers than BoB was willing to. 

You may well have retaken everything and pushed -A- back into Stain, but there's no way to know now.  All we do know is that GS+buds took two sov2 stations and -A-+buds took two sov3 stations and the majority of the GS high end moons (roughly 2/3s of the total dyspro/prome), all of which were sov3 systems. 

I've thought that sov3 and jammers have been broken for a long time, and they pretty clearly are.  There isn't a single case I'm aware of where a competent alliance has lost while defending sov3 areas.  Some stations have been taken (qy6 last year from BoB), but that's about it.  Every successful offensive has simply been beating up on bad alliances-Bruce, Hydra, Smashkill, Iron, Pure. 

You're in the wrong place to speak about the ZS- system, because most of the F13 guys spent weeks there.  It could have been taken easily, but wasn't a priority, so it was 15-20 of us against the whole of ROL.  We actually took it three times, too.

As regards the first counter-offensive, having a director-level spy in charge of the enemy's caps tends to give you the sort of warning of target systems that is helpful in blocking offensives.  Of course, your side burned your spy (to fail to take a station system) and we burned one too (to destroy Bob).

Anyway, interesting to see that AAA is coming up to Delve now, today.  Maybe this will degenerate into unloadable systems as a result.  I'm not sure of the wisdom of the move: betting on Kenny to survive and act as protection rather than letting them lose their space and consolidating a pretty solid SE/AAA/ROL bloc across ten regions of the south seems kinda weird.

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slog
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Reply #3984 on: February 12, 2009, 08:07:49 AM

So what's happend so far todaY?  I thought a ton of towers were coming out of reinforce?

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trevorreznik
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Reply #3985 on: February 12, 2009, 08:28:22 AM

You're in the wrong place to speak about the ZS- system, because most of the F13 guys spent weeks there.  It could have been taken easily, but wasn't a priority, so it was 15-20 of us against the whole of ROL.  We actually took it three times, too.

As regards the first counter-offensive, having a director-level spy in charge of the enemy's caps tends to give you the sort of warning of target systems that is helpful in blocking offensives.  Of course, your side burned your spy (to fail to take a station system) and we burned one too (to destroy Bob).

Anyway, interesting to see that AAA is coming up to Delve now, today.  Maybe this will degenerate into unloadable systems as a result.  I'm not sure of the wisdom of the move: betting on Kenny to survive and act as protection rather than letting them lose their space and consolidating a pretty solid SE/AAA/ROL bloc across ten regions of the south seems kinda weird.

When did you take it 3 times?  I didn't spend any time there, just looked at the map, which never shows GS breaking sov. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/ZS-2LT .  It's quite true that a director level spy would've given away important intel, but I don't think the failure in GHZ can solely be placed on Iromei.  GS had only about 5 real options to hit: c9n/111, zs/db1, ghz/5p, 68f/twj, or moon miners.  With the limit of 5 poses per day, it's very hard to do an effective sneak attack. 

Also, I guess -A- doesn't want to miss out on the fun in Delve :) 
setar
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Reply #3986 on: February 12, 2009, 08:29:21 AM

As regards the first counter-offensive, having a director-level spy in charge of the enemy's caps tends to give you the sort of warning of target systems that is helpful in blocking offensives.  Of course, your side burned your spy (to fail to take a station system) and we burned one too (to destroy Bob).

I didn't realize GS still believes that director was a spy? Thought the whole titan theft clarified that something went wrong there. Odd.


EVE - Yalson [BDCI] [-A-]
Endie
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Reply #3987 on: February 12, 2009, 08:33:08 AM

So what's happend so far todaY?  I thought a ton of towers were coming out of reinforce?

So far we've killed every tower that came out in several systems bar one, I think (which we didn't turn up for, before DT).  Just killed a CSAA right now: no doubt Dianabollox will come on and claim that it only contained a hedge, and that they have already planted a new hedge, and didn't want that hedge anyway.

The trouble with letting us kill what - half a dozen towers already? - is that whatever the achieve tonight will have to be truly stellar (all our towers into reinforced with a lot on Russian prime timers so they can be killed by AAA or something like that, or maybe kill a titan and a biggish dread fleet, which is entirely possible with all those AAA caps) in order not to make this still a pretty good day.  I know of one system we just achieved majority in, and I think they now have to save sov in half a dozen or so not to lose stations.  The sov timer for sov 3 has already been reset in all but one of the ones we're going for right now, I think.

And re ZS we took it over a couple of different periods of time, once when we started putting up towers, and once when they forgot to online one and didn't replace a medium because of our presence, giving it back to us a week later.    A lot of us here shot that station on those occasions.  I once scared off their half dozen battleships trying to get it back when sov reverted by tripleboxing a falcon, a chimera and a crow for one-man fighterbombing.  I have screenshots of their corp hangars showing how pitifully poor they were despite that plex, presumably thanks to ebaying all their ISK.  They sure did have a shitload of scan probes, though.

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palmer_eldritch
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Reply #3988 on: February 12, 2009, 08:34:06 AM

As regards the first counter-offensive, having a director-level spy in charge of the enemy's caps tends to give you the sort of warning of target systems that is helpful in blocking offensives.  Of course, your side burned your spy (to fail to take a station system) and we burned one too (to destroy Bob).

I didn't realize GS still believes that director was a spy? Thought the whole titan theft clarified that something went wrong there. Odd.



What's your theory? Suas turned off the -dg towers?
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Reply #3989 on: February 12, 2009, 08:35:01 AM

As regards the first counter-offensive, having a director-level spy in charge of the enemy's caps tends to give you the sort of warning of target systems that is helpful in blocking offensives.  Of course, your side burned your spy (to fail to take a station system) and we burned one too (to destroy Bob).

I didn't realize GS still believes that director was a spy? Thought the whole titan theft clarified that something went wrong there. Odd.

You are trolling, clearly.  The two incidents were barely tangentially related.

Fake edit: nice one, palmer.  awesome, for real

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