War

[WindupAtheist]

1. For want of a better phrase, you believe it's not "a fair fight" if one side outnumbers the other.

Will Turner: You didn't beat me. You ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you.
Jack Sparrow: That's not much incentive for me to fight fair, then, is it?

I this thread.

[Merusk]

MMmm. Doctrine of Overwhelming Force.

[JoeTF]

Blob is a lot of ships, in this context a lot more than opposing force has. Alternatively, bringing way more people that are necessary to achieve your goals.
If you see two enemies and bring a fleet of 50 to kill them, you're clearly blobbing them. When enemy has 100 and you bring 250, clear act of blobbage.

Besides, what's the point - I wrote that excessive lag nullifies advantages from tactics and your answer is "wtf is blob?"

You mean two different things then. 

1. For want of a better phrase, you believe it's not "a fair fight" if one side outnumbers the other.

2. You also believe lag gives an advantage that combats BoB's tactics and more expensive ships and the reason RSF tries to bring as many ships as possible is to create lag.

My opinion on 1 is that's complete crap.  BoB is an organisation that only recruits from the highest SP characters and tries to present an image of flying the most expensive ships.  Therefore a fight with BoB on equal numbers will never be fair due to the more advanced ships and higher sp characters involved in a BoB fleet.  I have no problem with that, as I believe the whole concept of a fair fight in a war is stupid, however it's your propaganda that is whining about "fair fights" all the time when anyone with any sense sees that it's not possible to enforce numbers due to the current way POS warfare works.

Now moving on to point 2.

My opinion on 2 is that's complete crap.  The most recent battle on 0OY had 200 or so BoB camping the system with masses of fighters deployed, same as with FT when our side lost 40-50 capitals, the lag benefited BoB and BoB won.  Again I have no problem with BoB's tactics, it's the logical way to fight.  However I'd state the reason everyone (BoB and RSF) generally bring as many ships as possible to an engagement is not some complex mystery that needs to be solved, it's simple, to try and destroy the other fleet/gain control of the system.  The fact is the defending fleet has the advantage if they have the grid loaded and fighters deployed and that fact applies equally to both sides.

ad1. No idea where you got that from.
ad2. I would argue that bringing overly excessive force when it could be divided and better used elsewhere is a mistake. To clear confusion, we didn't have 200 with fighters in recent fight in 0oy, and FT fiasco was mostly a result of bad RSF leadership decisions. You don't warp directly into enemy fleet to offset loading lag and after actual battle begins, lag is equally bad for the guys who were there first and the ones who are dropping by.   

[Slayerik]

pew pew

pew pew

[Nevermore]

I would argue that bringing overly excessive force when it could be divided and better used elsewhere is a mistake.

So you're saying that if RSF would divide their forces they would have even more successes against BoB?  You should be glad they're blobbing then, instead of dividing up their forces for better use elsewhere.

[Arthur_Parker]

ad1. No idea where you got that from.
ad2. I would argue that bringing overly excessive force when it could be divided and better used elsewhere is a mistake. To clear confusion, we didn't have 200 with fighters in recent fight in 0oy, and FT fiasco was mostly a result of bad RSF leadership decisions. You don't warp directly into enemy fleet to offset loading lag and after actual battle begins, lag is equally bad for the guys who were there first and the ones who are dropping by.   

ad1.  I got that from you.
ad2.  According to one of your leaders Dianabolic you did have 200, I'm going to assume you aren't disputing the carriers had fighters deployed.

The problem as I see it is there's an invented term "the blob" and nobody wants to define exactly what it means or why it's bad.  The idea that you can have a fleet battle and bring only the number of ships needed to achieve your objective is silly.  You will not know the ship types nor the ship numbers of the enemy fleet in advance, the best you can hope for is a spy but that leads to faulty information such as Dianabolic's linked guess on RSF numbers based on teamspeak.  That's ignoring the fact that just shooting a few POS can take hours and any extra ships brought along only shorten that time.

If I'm wrong please feel free to expand upon BoB's method of making sure they don't "blob" and how many times you have seen someone turned away from a fleet battle because BoB already had enough ships.  Given the massive recruitment that BoB has undertaken in the past few weeks, forgive me for being sceptical.

Edit, typo

[Merusk]

ad2. I would argue that bringing overly excessive force when it could be divided and better used elsewhere is a mistake.

No.  That's why it's the Doctrine of Overwhelming force.  You take fewer losses overall because of better damage potential, lowered morale of the enemy,(server problems in EvE) etc.

The counter, however, is to throw meat at their grinder, accepting that they'll be lost because it's really just a distraction while simultaneously hitting the opponent in 2-3 other spots where they're vulnerable because of the singularity of their forces.

Eve, apparently, disallows this. That's a problem with the game, not the doctrine.
 
Where you're fucked is if they've got enough to bring overwhelming force AND defend more than you can attack.  At that point it's give-up and go guerrilla.  Something also not well-achieved in EvE.

[Endie]

ad2. I would argue that bringing overly excessive force when it could be divided and better used elsewhere is a mistake.

The counter, however, is to throw meat at their grinder, accepting that they'll be lost because it's really just a distraction while simultaneously hitting the opponent in 2-3 other spots where they're vulnerable because of the singularity of their forces.

Eve, apparently, disallows this. That's a problem with the game, not the doctrine.
 
Where you're fucked is if they've got enough to bring overwhelming force AND defend more than you can attack.  At that point it's give-up and go guerrilla.  Something also not well-achieved in EvE.

Actually, this is why BoB has suffered, even this week.  The 0OY debacle was almost all goons (go figure), with some TCF and UNL there for a short while.  But RA were doing something very important and successful at the same time.  And FREGE were doing their guerilla thing and actually taking three systems and a station in Bob's home territory!

Fake Edit: The FREGE thing is just a deep-raiding strategy: we don't now have a logistically horrendous base in Delve to maintain!  But it all diverts Bob efforts, grinds them down, makes use of our numbers.

[Endie]

Bob, using their "fancy titan" just as LC had us doing it at 0OY (ie not even in the same system), just attacked our fleet of almost equal size (counting space French we had about 20-25 more, but lol rifters, and RA and TCF reported being out of range), twice, in an attempt to stop a huge op we are running in one of our systems.

Results: massive numbers of bob battleships dead, but who cares?  I refuse to use some stupid killboard.net campaign thing even when we win hilariously.  Lag was harsh but manageable for both sides, judging from the behaviour of their faster ships.

Best result, quote from Bob member in gang passed on by GIA agent:

"Can someone please tell Dianabolic he is screaming?"

---

Edit we had 20-25 more, not 205!  Writing while on a mandatory-drunkness op is foolish at best...

[LC]

just as LC had us doing it at 0OY

I did? Do goons have a titan now?

[Endie]

just as LC had us doing it at 0OY

I did? Do goons have a titan now?

Sorry LC, my bad: it was JoeTF who blessed our fleet with "a titan and other awesome stuff".

PS While I have your attention, why not suggest that Bob members post their losses?  One of my kills (Amon 'Chakai) has apparently decided that posting his Rokh loss would be too embarassing in this auspicious week for Finfleet.  That led me to check a few others... Finfleet seem a little shy.

[LC]

PS While I have your attention, why not suggest that Bob members post their losses?  One of my kills (Amon 'Chakai) has apparently decided that posting his Rokh loss would be too embarassing in this auspicious week for Finfleet.  That led me to check a few others... Finfleet seem a little shy.

I think I saw an angry post in the bob forums about not posting losses already.

[Endie]

PS While I have your attention, why not suggest that Bob members post their losses?  One of my kills (Amon 'Chakai) has apparently decided that posting his Rokh loss would be too embarassing in this auspicious week for Finfleet.  That led me to check a few others... Finfleet seem a little shy.

I think I saw an angry post in the bob forums about not posting losses already.

Yeah, despite all the mandatory jibes, I've usually found the bob killboard posts my kills before other GF pilots do.  I wonder if Finfleet (it all seemed to be them) are a bit sensitive about not messing up their k/d in their first week?  They certainly had a big turn-out, as you'd expect in that first flush of enthusiasm.

Edit:

In somewhat lighter news, I assume everyone knows that Remedial, Official Eve CEO of the Year, walked off with a not-insubstantial part of our titan fund a few months ago.  Well, in an elaborate sting operation, Firstname Lastname managed to persuade Rem that he was, in fact, a slightly portly young lady with exotic tastes in threesomes and drugs answering an ad on Adult FriendFinder.  Cue much gag-inducing chat-based flirtation, stated willingness to drive hundreds of miles to "hook up", and a series of perfectly vile pictures sent in an effort t oentice said young, fictional hussy into an unforgettable but ultimately regretable liason.  Booyah: Firstname Lastname always gets his.

If you want to, you can see the thread Firstname Lastname posted on no less a forum than Eve-Online, but since it contained pictures of naked fat people and their oddly bending, tumescent members:

a) You have to use eve-search - it got yanked by GMs after scant seconds and Irefuse to be responsible for linking it
b) You must not be at work: I cannot stress this enough
c) You probably should reconsider, especially if you are cursed with vivid recollection or a photographic memory.

[JoeTF]

just as LC had us doing it at 0OY

I did? Do goons have a titan now?

Sorry LC, my bad: it was JoeTF who blessed our fleet with "a titan and other awesome stuff".

PS While I have your attention, why not suggest that Bob members post their losses?  One of my kills (Amon 'Chakai) has apparently decided that posting his Rokh loss would be too embarassing in this auspicious week for Finfleet.  That led me to check a few others... Finfleet seem a little shy.

If the kill comes from after FIN becoming part of BoB, e-mail one of FinFleet directors, I'm sure they will be delighted to know:)

[Endie]

I see some of them - including the guy I mentioned - trickling in now.  I imagine some people just loggoffskied to save pods, or in an attempt to save ships, and then wisely didn't log in till today and so didn't have access to the killmails to post.  Plus whatever internal peer-pressure was on them from people who did post their killmails will have counted.

The context which I should have posted in my first email but was too drunk to remember that some people might not know:

We started putting Bob POSes into reinforced in 9-9 yesterday, and killed the stront-timer as well.  We'd reinforced half the towers when our FC said that he was going to do something to get Bob to attack us.  We did what we were told and Bob gate-jumped next door and then jumped into our gatecamp within a couple of minutes.

After a couple of kinda one-sided engagements Bob were attritted to the point that they had to retire to a POS, and we reinforced the other half of their towers: 20 large deathstars and virtually every module outside the shields.  Quite a few have already come out of reinforced and all have been destroyed thus far. The op continues.

Edit: Op over for today: we have killed every single POS to come out today - 16 of them - and have four left over the weekend.  Sixteen in a day.  And they laughed when i trained torpedoes  :-D

[Comstar]

And on the lighter side of the news My Favorite Eve-O poster announced he had joined Goonfleet.

[Chenghiz]

He might as well have been in goonfleet already, heh.

[cmlancas]

He's The Mittani. Duh.

[Endie]

Well, destroying all those POSes sure was fun, but we knew our enemies wouldn't respect us unless we "brought it" and gave them a "good fight".  So it was time for a demonstration of how to really jump into a gatecamp, while simultaneously demonstrating to Rise that (a) they are utterly doomed and (b) bubbling the only way in and out of your little stronghold is a two-edged sword of a tactic.

Laydeez unt gentlemens, I give you ze aftermaths. Edit: copy and paste url into browser.

Well, that looks like a nice, even fight.  Maybe GF have made 30-40% more kills, and allowing for the fact that we had a squillion newbies in refiters, they must have come out ahead on ISK by a long way, but hey, RISE can at least hold up their heads.  Wait, what's that you say?  They were camping that gate with six carriers?  And a Moros dreadnought in siege mode?  And every single one of those is dead as well?!?

The funny thing is that we were at the end of a big long chain of jumps, and the whole of Tenerifis was lagged to hell and back - every single jump would take 3 minutes for the grid to load and an emergency warp while on the way there - while RISE were a jump away from all their ships.

Good quote from threequid:

That was beyond awesome, even if it did mostly resemble a corporate powerpoint presentation detailing how best to move red and purple blocks around a red and purple block factory.

[Miasma]

Laydeez unt gentlemens, I give you ze aftermaths.

Image no work.  That waffle place only seems to work from goon sites.

[Merusk]

Laydeez unt gentlemens, I give you ze aftermaths.

Image no work.  That waffle place only seems to work from goon sites.

DOesn't work as a link.. do the old angelfire trick where you refresh/ cut and paste the link and you can see it.  It wasn't that interesting, tho...

That's the sad part of EvE.  All these nifty ship models may as well jsut be Ascii graphics, because that's all you ever see.  [ ]   [ ] [ ] ^ ^ ^ x [ ]  [ ] o

[Endie]

A couple of months ago, Bob at their high-water mark owned almost all of the Tenerifis system, and were POS-spamming their way (not a criticism of POS-spamming: that was the game at that point) into Detorid.

An hour or so ago, we removed the last BoB POS in the key 9-9 system, and what i think is the last Bob POS in Tenerifis.  Cut and paste http://ft.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/fa/fa5d4e27081385090d96fa696bf5b29cffdd78f1.jpg into your browser window if you want to see this touchingly poignant moment.  I know I'll miss them.

Anyway, that makes twenty Bob deathstars reinforced, and twenty destroyed, in three days.  Rise must be feeling a bit tense, since we've toured their impregnable sov 4 space fortress twice in the last couple of days for light relief, with much carnage and plummeting numbers of enemies.  For a laugh, we even put up some stuff of our own.

Like Hydrosan said: "gg next region".

[Ratadm]

How's Omist going?  Is it fully secured yet?

[Yoru]

How's Omist going?  Is it fully secured yet?

As I understand it, Omist can't really be fully-secured with a reasonably-sized investment. The moon counts in the station systems are in the mid-to-upper double digits.

[Fordel]

Which is why there was/is so much fighting in the area's around Omist. Both sides know Omist is a speed bump at best.

[Arthur_Parker]

Someone already posted this on eve-o,  thought it was worth reposting here, it appears to be from RISE's internal forums.

Warning: :words: follow. Most of this is boring as shit but there's some good bits of total abject despair at the end, which I've bolded for ease of mockery.

------

AAR: Black Friday – Goon/TCF/RA/KOS
[Core Incursion /  Defense]
DATE: August 17th, 2007 / August 18th, 2007 RIT @ P8 Gate, 21:30  -> 1:05
Type: Core Defense / Suppression
FC Name: Lucius  Ventrue

Battle Summary
Engagement took place in RIT @ P8 Gate 


Detail:

Friday night, the  start of a weekend. I log in shortly after work to find myself a gang of 20  friendly’s looking for some direction early. Situation stood @ 16 Pandemic  Legion, mostly recon/hac harassing core most of the day, light goon presence  visiting about every 4 hours with the occasional light/fast TCF gang reinforcing  when needed. This required a strong presence showing we would not stand for  roaming ganks without some work.

I quickly requested on coms for  additional people to prod their corpmates, get them in gang and began forming at  a POS. While the conventional ship gang started arriving at the 7-2 POS, a  request was made to have all avail capital ship pilots to log in and get to a  POS; Scouts were sent out to YY, PO, Gates in RIT (GHZ/5P) and one pilot  positioned on the Station, to give clear for pilots to undock. Troops began to  mount up and add to our current gang, impressively growing to 40 in a matter of  15min.
Orders were sent over TS and gang to move to optimal on P8 gate, as I  launched a Large Warp Disruptor Bubble just under the gate to reinforce our  position in RIT. The goal was simple, suppression of current enemy forces in  core, leaving them a deadly exit alternative and denial of any forces coming  into RIT.

Forces began mounting at the gate, force that would grow to a  little over 70 friendly support, 8 capital ships (5 Thantos, 1 Moros, 2 Arcons).  The gate looked deadly, what force would want to challenge this in its current  form. All forces pulled into the sphere, 20km sphere of destruction *84 km from  P8 gate, close support swarming around waiting to pounce on anything that got  near. Over 20min passed with no action (short of a friendly that got jumped  jumping into RIT at a gate, before fast support could get to him.

More  time passed as I received word of DFC requiring assistance. Their situation on  secure channels put 70 hostiles poised in their system, pounding on the  ZS-Cynojammer. Several requests were made for us to assist and seeing how we did  not have much resistance with the fleet we had assembled, Pandemic Legion had  gone to the shadows, not so much as even de-cloaking and giving any position on  them. I began to update the group on our possible withdraw from the P8 gate and  movement to DFC land with possible bridge from RIT area to ZS if it could be  negotiated with bob. Few min pass, while gathering intel on what ships I would  need to bring to the ZS bash, I receive word that a 25man, mostly light TFC gang  was headed down our pipe. The group is informed and we go back to situation as  normal camping with our rather large fleet. A short time passes and intel  reports the 25 TCF gang 0 bubble on RIT gate in P8, jumping a scout into RIT.  Our bubble of death positioned 85km off the gate, most snipers with higher  damage 80-100km ammo loaded ready to neutralize the scout threat as orders are  sent for light fast (inty) to blaze over to the gate and tackle the inc. The TCF  scout de-cloaks and makes a break back to the gate, vaporizing a few sec later  being ripped apart by our fast locking support/snipers. The TCF gang holds  steady on the gate, not showing their intension to move.

Minutes pass and  the constant request for assistance continue to pour in from DCF and BOB  requesting us to help DCF with their issue. The gang is informed again that we  are being summoned to assist an ally in distress and we would need friendly’s to  help with this effort. After broadcasting this our gang goes from 74 to 59,  losing some of the European contingent that had been on for most of the day and  knew that a DFC / CA-Goon tussle would last more than a few hours. The order to  move capitals off grid was given and move alumar into position to remove the  large bubble, to allow our BS fleet to get right to the gate.

The request  for all heavy support / support to stay in current position 84km off gate was  given as people switched ships and protected the bubble from going down. The  bubble drops, gets scoped and alumar aligns/warps for station. What happens next  is the start of one of the most deadly battles rise has ever seen as an  alliance.
TCF does the unthinkable and jumps in with their simi light (25)  gang and begins to engage our bubble of death as Panademic Legion de-cloaks near  our position and begins to tear into our defenses. Primaries began to get  called, support is called back to the bubble to protect any incoming light  ships/tacklers, snipers are given their primary/secondary targets. Capital ship  request are asked to get back on grid and start focusing on their  primary/secondary targets with sentry’s/drone/fighter support repping who they  could. First on scene is Tarentino in his Thantos, dishing out drones and  focusing on the hostiles trying to pin him down.  By this time the enemy  had at least 4 dictors dropping bubbles on our fleet, trying to pick off the  folks stretching out of the bubble (folks were gliding out of the 20km bubble we  had established). Shortly into the fight, (which was looking to go very in good  to our favor) a report of 40 goon in YY are making best speed to our core.  Figuring this is why the TCF gang jumped in and decided to give there ships to  the slaughter, suppress till help arrived was purely their agenda. 

Tarentino’s tank at this time was starting to fail and request for  additional capital ships were given. The request was heard loud and clear as  most of our support fleet was starting to get picked off by the goons that made  it down the pipe and jumped into RIT, local now near 165, 75 friendly, 90  hostile, lag was still bearable, but starting to get noticeable. By this time  Tarentino was getting into hull, before several capital ships started repping  him back to full armor. RISE support using gridloads began to warp in @ 400,  establish contacts, call primaries and destroy the enemy force slowly one by one  as the capital ships were keeping each other repaired / balanced. Even though by  this time several friendly support had lost ships, most of us in our second or  third ship, reports over TS and commands stayed solid. The count in local was  dropping, down to 132, lots of enemy wrecks, capitals all good at the time, all  full armor, few tanking only shield. Still constant reports flowing in about  groups of 3, 5, 2, 5 … slowly adding to the fun we were having in RIT at the p8  gate. Over an hour (which seems like min) pass during this, when the word is  broadcasted over gang and coms. YY blowing up, up to 70, 80, 99 goon/RA… TS  falls silent for a sec, could we take this group? We were slowly eating away at  everything they threw at us so far, capital ships were not in immediate danger  and tanking everything they were dishing out.

The word was given to began  focusing on the EW that was focused on the capital ships, Dampers, ECM; support  began to focus on these as the impending LAGfest of doom drew closer. First  target, an arazu, melted under heavy fire by coordinated attack, next a Pilgrim,  then another Pilgrim, when all of the sudden local balloons to 220, 250, 307….  TS statement is made, …local is over 300, we might want to plan an exit strat.  Our only option at the time due to the constant bubbles were to continue and  kill the EW that were on the capitals, without them, the capitals could sustain  even the nasty behemoth that had dropped on top of them.

Grid loads were  continued to be used, but this time, it was a constant frame by frame situation.  TS orders were given to have everyone load recon only overviews, enter grid in  map mode, zoomed out, anything to actually load grid and not die before you’re  loaded. This worked somewhat, but now with over 200 hostiles, nearly 100  friendly’s the situation started to look questionable. We were not loading grid  fast enough before the group would be targeted and die. Lag was killing any and  all of our efforts to focus on the EW. We continued, losing several friendly  ships in this action of trying to get any sort of advantage through the lag,  first in heavy snipers/light support then switching to ECM only ships, by if  only jamming the EW that was pointed on the Carriers. All efforts failed,  collectively we could not load grid fast enough, sometimes taking more than 5min  to load, only to find yourself dead 1sec later in the station. Ship  shields/armor and hull + pod gone in an instant.

Capitals continued to  kill and tank nearly an hour longer, support unable to suppress the 200+ pressed  on them. Coms through this were very calm, commendable considering the  situation. The game had let us down, the plan executed near flawless by our  pilots, insured a no doubt victory even given the odds pressed against us, the  server unfortunately could not deliver in our request to defend.   One by  one, the mighty capital fleet that had put such a strong presence on the  battlefield, soaking what would be considered millions of damage started to  fall, one after each other. The feelings felt by all, a helpless deep remorse,  unable to help their fellow friends & shipmates in this terrible turn of  events.

To all involved in this gross loss of server / game mechanics  failure I salute you for keeping our com chat professional and allowing the  tactic to play out. Everyone saw and heard, with limited lag, nothing could  touch those capital ships. Doing exactly what they were designed to do, control  and own the battlefield, through immense dps brought down on them, they stood  for nearly 2 hours with nearly no other support besides their own, 8 brave  pilots and soldiers placing these alliance assets in the heat of the battle. You  have done the eve community justice, even through a defeat through game  mechanics, you all proved battle, tactics and teamwork can hold up a capital  fleet against heavy odds when this game functions properly.

Tarentino,  Civ Zomas, Dsltnangel, SrMorPhEuS, Toffe, Skedders, Bahamut124 - we salute you 

Battle Report:  (not fully accurate, several multiple deaths not listed)
http://eve-rise.coldpoetry.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=26489

Kills:

[T2] Arazu   
[T2] Ares     x2
[T2] Crow x6
[T2] Crusader x5
[T2] Curse x2
[T2]  Eris   x2
[T2] Falcon   
[T2] Heretic  x3
[T2] Manticore   
[T2] Nemesis   
[T2]  Oneiros   
[T2] Pilgrim x2
[T2] Raptor
[T2]  Stiletto   
[T2] Taranis x3
[T2] Wolf     x2
[T2] Zelot

[BS] Raven
[BS]  Scorpion x2

[BC] Brutix
[BC]  Hurricane
[BC] Cyclone x2

Badger Mark  II   
Blackbird   
Caracal x2
Celestis  x2
Coercer   
Cormorant   
Incursus   x8
Merlin  x8
Rifter x7
Rupture  x2
Sigil   
Stabber   x2
Thorax  x2
Thrasher   x4
Tristan x2
Vigil x4

Total Enemy  Ship Loss: 88 Ships

Loss:

First kill starts @  RIT-A7 Friday, August 17th 22:16

[BC] Brutix -  Darba Erim
[BC] Brutix - neverine coeval
[BC] Brutix -  sebskywalker
[BC] Brutix - Tomiko RinTsuki
[BC] Cyclone - Fal Conn
[BC]  Drake - beetle2112
[BC] Drake - Insertname here
[BC] Drake - JJJA
[BC]  Drake - Talon Scorpio
[BC] Drake - Exodus Ronin
[BC] Ferox - Hrothgar  Healfdene
[BC] Harbinger - Rathverg
[BC] Hurricane - 350125GO
[BC]  Hurricane - Cherubior
[BC] Hurricane - Lucius Ventrue
[BC] Hurricane -  Magic Crisp
[BC] Myrmidon - HermodAus
[BC] Myrmidon -  sebskywalker
[BS] Abaddon - alarox
[BS]  Armageddon - Rathverg
[BS] Brutix - Darth Decon
[BS] Dominix - Examer  Ta'Rok
[BS] Dominix - Lentqi Ap'raduz
[BS] Dominix - sturing
[BS]  Maelstrom - Cherubior
[BS] Maelstrom - Lucius Ventrue
[BS] Megathron - GeM  Mineris
[BS] Megathron - Shah Jahan
[BS] Megathron - Moxey
[BS] Raven -  Rotten one
[BS] Raven - Stinger169
[BS] Rohk - ownt
[BS] Rokh -  Bacar
[BS] Rokh - Deflection
[BS] Scorpion - AlphA13
[BS] Scorpion -  Alumar Ventrue
[BS] Tempest - dan conway
[BS] Tempest - GeMiPaT
[BS]  Tempest - GeMiPat
[BS] Tempest - HankMurphy
[BS] Typhoon -  GeMiPaT

[Capital] Archon - Toffee
[Capital] Bahamut124  - Thanatos
[Capital] Moros - Civ Zomas
[Capital] Thanatos -  Dstnangel
[Capital] Thanatos - skedders
[Capital] Thanatos -  SrMorPhEuS
[Capital] Thanatos - Tarentino

[Faction] Cynabal - Lucius Ventrue
[Faction] Gila -  Rotten one
[T2] - Taranis - Moxey
[T2]  Absolution - Aves
[T2] Ares - Gstomp22
[T2] Buzzard - JohnTrap
[T2]  Cerberus - Terrisin
[T2] Claw - DJPulse
[T2] Crow - beetle2112
[T2]  Eagle - Deflection
[T2] Eagle - eLDSTORM
[T2] Enyo - Exodus Ronin
[T2]  Harpy - Insertname here
[T2] Harpy - Stinger169
[T2] Helios - Darba  Erim
[T2] Hound - Xitaxal
[T2] Iskhur - Bartabat
[T2] Manticore - Evil  Solider
[T2] Manticore - Xlex Prime
[T2] Muninn - Chetery
[T2] Nemesis  - glabrezu
[T2] Nighthawk - Bacar
[T2] Nighthawk - beetle2112
[T2]  Nighthawk - EvilSoldier
[T2] Purifier - Aves
[T2] Raptor - Rotten  one
[T2] Rook - Raham
[T2] Stiletto - Asmodaithesly
[T2] Taranis -  Bartabat
[T2] Taranis - Moxey
[T2] Thorax - Bahamu124
[T2] Wolf - Magic  Crisp
[T2] Zealot - Aves
[T2] Zelot - Zinndahr

Arbitrator -  dan conway
Arbitrator - Warmholio
Arbitrator - Zorac Amarr
Augoror -  Wormholio
Blackbird - HermodAus
Blackbird - Rotten one
Blackbird -  Rotten one
Blackbird - sturing
Blackbird - Yon Built
Caracal - Rotten  one
Caracal - Schadel
Caracal - Si'ren
Caracal - sturing
Caracal -  Vari
Celestis - Examer Ta'Rok
Celestis - JJJA
Celestis - neverine  coeval
Celestis - Prusten
Celestis - Shah Jahan
Cherubior -  Cyclone
Coercer - Wormholio
Crucifier - HermodAus
Exequror -  EvilSoldier
Incursus - Darba Erim
Incursus - neverine coval
Kestrel -  Scadel
Kestrel - Si'ren
Maller - HermodAus
Merlin - Hrothgar  Healfdene
Merlin - Rotten one
Merlin - Si'ren
Moa - Deflexction
Omen  - Kahled Markren
Omen - Rathverg
Omen - Wormholio
Rifter - Lucius  Ventrue
Rupture - Magic Crisp
Stabber - AsmodaitheSly
Stabber -  DJPulse
Thorax - Barabat
Thorax - neverine coval
Thorax -  Prusten
Thorax - Zorac Amarr
Thrasher - Insertname here
Vexor - Examer  Ta'Rok
Vexor - Exodus Ronin

Total friendly loss: 128 ships (including  capitals and multiple peoples losses)

Good:
Top Notch coms, from start  to the bloodly end
Lots of open, calm, suggestions throughout the  combat
Inital plan and execution worked very well
Unwavering commitment  from selected multi-loss members

Bad:
This one battle, disabled  several folks from effectively fighting for some time to come.

LAG / The  inability of this server to handle fleet battles of larger scale is purely to  blame for this. Myself and several members will back, if they contiuned to  trickle in, we woulda had the no-lag playing field to vaporize the slow inital  roll of them coming in, which woulda suppressed the larger effort.

Ugly: 
The amount of ISK loss is near incomprehensable, billions lost in  modules/officer mods. Several capital ships had base insurance, costly  replenishment.

Lots of factors played into this situation.

1)  What if we kept camp from earlier, not pulling down bubble, keeping capitals all  with sentry drones out and ready to rock. Having to pull them into battle in  middle of fight, coupled with forces spread out switching ships for DFC  assistance spread us out, killed our advantage.

2) Not focusing on the  tacklers / bubbles / EW earlier

3) Failure of gridloads not balancing the  load times, even with us meeting at a POS and flying as a group, as much as  12-20 at a time, still up to 2 min to load, enemy fleet had upper hand on every  load time, was able to get on us and setup before we even loaded grid. We musta  looked like sitting ducks.

--------------

Closing, please review,  post adjustments, post your total personal loss to this event. PLEASE be honest,  this iskies need to spread across a lot effected. Make sure you count in your  insurance recieved. Let your corpmates know this is posted and have them review  if they lost a ship.

[Slayerik]

One word comes to mind.


Pwned.

[bhodi]

Ouch. Holy crap. Base insurance on cap ships? Sadface.

[Trouble]

Can we get a TLDR summary?

[Arthur_Parker]

Can we get a TLDR summary?

Of the past 32 pages?

[dwindlehop]

Lesson learned: next time, bring more faction ships to the fleet fight!

[Trouble]

Can we get a TLDR summary?

Of the past 32 pages?

No the post you just made. I skimmed through and what I gleaned is that they (RISE?) had a huge loss to Goonfleet due to lag? Is that correct? And they are mourning their losses.

[Yoru]

Can we get a TLDR summary?

Of the past 32 pages?

No the post you just made. I skimmed through and what I gleaned is that they (RISE?) had a huge loss to Goonfleet due to lag? Is that correct? And they are mourning their losses.

RISE lost a fleet fight against RSF. They blame lag for the loss. That's about it.

Edit: Oh yeah, and they lost so much stuff that some of their members are temporarily out of commission when it comes to future battles. Or so they claim.

Edit2: For clarity.

[Raging Turtle]

Whoops, I was thinking it was Goons who had the huge loss.  /reads again

[Trouble]

Whoops, I was thinking it was Goons who had the huge loss.  /reads again

That's why I asked for a summary. =D It is excessively wordy but I guess that's how all these Alliance leaders write.