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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Eve Online  |  Topic: War 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: War  (Read 1923790 times)
Simond
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Reply #980 on: July 30, 2007, 05:35:47 AM

Actually, i was thinking more in terms of their tactics. Like, what the hell, how?
Warping their sniper gangs to zero @ gates.
Warping BS gang in, letting a couple get tackled, warping the remainder out. Repeat.
Pilots losing their battleships & HACs but coming back in interceptors and then deciding to attack frigates as primary.
I'm surprised we didn't see an AFK gang-warp to a hostile POS, TBH.

...basically, they're flying like Goonfleet on a bad day. Oh, and at least two carriers down  (one of which belonged to M'buku - a mod at SHC). :D

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Endie
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Reply #981 on: July 30, 2007, 07:16:52 AM

Wheeeere's Goonfleet?



Theeeere's Goonfleet.

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MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #982 on: July 30, 2007, 12:08:04 PM

TBH, Blacklight was more than just one of the BoB CEO's, he was their best grand strategist and one of their better FC's.  BoB also did a lot of recruiting during the period of Titan uberdom, a trump card that forgave many mistakes and kept them from properly shaking down the new recruits.  As individuals those pilots are as good as it gets, and operating on the old-style "total war" tactics where winning is determined by maintaining a 23/7 siege on the enemy, they'd be more than capable.

But these days, wars are decided by POS counts, and the battles that count are the ones that influence that number (and sieging is only effective insofar as it affects the enemy wallets, because POS fuel and parts can always be carrier-jumped).  With everyone so reluctant to deploy Dreads for fear of getting them mousetrapped, and super-caps essentially hangar queens that can't be hangared, BoB has been slower to change up tactics.  Which is pretty normal, the ones who best mastered the tactics of the last war are always the last to give them up.  And in close proximity to a POS, skill points count less than total numbers.

--Dave

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Fordel
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Reply #983 on: July 30, 2007, 01:30:22 PM

I'm not sure it's so much people are afraid to use Dreads, as much as it is that they can't due to cyno jammers. That seems to be the new complaint going around at least.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Chenghiz
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Reply #984 on: July 30, 2007, 01:35:32 PM

Goonfleet opens a public forum.

http://www.goonfleet.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48

This is going to be interesting.

Oh happy day!
MahrinSkel
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Reply #985 on: July 30, 2007, 01:44:24 PM

I'm not sure it's so much people are afraid to use Dreads, as much as it is that they can't due to cyno jammers. That seems to be the new complaint going around at least.
If you've got clear local superiority, taking down a Cyno jammer without dreads isn't that hard, and taking down a POS isn't much harder (about an hour for 100 BS for the POS).  The cyno jammer makes a good "first trench", but it's no more than that (as IAC and friends have repeatedly shown in 49-U).

--Dave

EDIT: What I forgot to say was that everyone seems paranoid about getting their Dread fleets mousetrapped and seeing 50B+ go up in smoke in a single battle.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 01:45:56 PM by MahrinSkel »

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Endie
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Reply #986 on: July 30, 2007, 03:47:33 PM

Yeah, Bob are having to learn to deal with an enemy who are very aware of the importance of the concept of posessing a fleet in being.

I think that you have a number of good points, Mahrin, but one really worrying thing for Bob must be that they started the 66 battle on their own terms, with Goons jumping into a bubbled Bob gatecamp.  The one thing that everyone accepts Bob can do is endlessly camp gates.  And yet the RSF forces brushed it aside and went on to shut down the cyno jammers.

Sooner or later they'll manage to keep cynos up at the same time as having POSes come out of reinforced in a system where they know we don't have logged-out capitals.  They'll win that one and will shout about it a lot.  But in every other aspect of POS warfare James315 is right: they just can't seem to buy a win.  They have, admittedly, a big problem timing stront when 2/3 of the timezones are hostile and their cap-fleet numbers are down 50% in alarm-clock ops.

-----

We just killed another Evol carrier in 66, btw.  We have another POS coming out of reinforced and this is the warm-up.  I accept I may wake up tomorrow and regret saying this, but I don't for a second think Bob have the ability to take it down.

Edit: Bob didn't take the POS down, of course.  On the same note as the previous picture, by the way, see if you can spot 66- in this map of eve's star cluster with the statistics option showing "ships destrpyed in the last 24 hours".
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 01:39:38 AM by Endie »

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Arthur_Parker
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Reply #987 on: July 31, 2007, 09:14:36 AM

Edit: Bob didn't take the POS down, of course.  On the same note as the previous picture, by the way, see if you can spot 66- in this map of eve's star cluster with the statistics option showing "ships destrpyed in the last 24 hours".

Waffleimages only work if you have a goon site open (I think).

Rehosted it.

Merusk
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Reply #988 on: July 31, 2007, 09:23:07 AM

JEbus.. I thought it was bright before. Seeing it was that big against the WHOLE starmap and not just a sector or constellation is crazy town.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #989 on: August 01, 2007, 03:31:56 PM

Might as well post this before someone else does: MC lost a Mothership in 49-U a little bit ago.  The pilot desynched and disconnected, and we were apparently never able to get it clear of bubbles at the same time he was in control of the ship,   Somebody has been stocking up dictors for just such an occasion, it seems.

--Dave

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Yoru
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Reply #990 on: August 01, 2007, 03:48:32 PM

Might as well post this before someone else does: MC lost a Mothership in 49-U a little bit ago.  The pilot desynched and disconnected, and we were apparently never able to get it clear of bubbles at the same time he was in control of the ship,   Somebody has been stocking up dictors for just such an occasion, it seems.

--Dave

Aren't desync losses usually reimbursed pretty quickly?
Endie
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Reply #991 on: August 01, 2007, 04:12:29 PM

Supercapital desynchs - and there is a lot of evidence he wasn't desynched - don't get reimbursed.  If he got reimbursed then a lot of us who suffered genuine desynchs would be upset in a very tinfoil way, and CCP knows that.  I don't think they're stupid enough to fall for it.

MC plays high risk games, using their MSs in the laggy front line to intimidate.  They didn't do it in front of Russians for very long before blowing what must be most or all of their "fee" (whatever form that takes).

Anyway, in other news, not only have MC met the Russians but Bob had all of their remaining POSes in XGH destroyed.  XGH is cleansed by the purifying fire of the Redswarm Federation  And not only that, but in 66- UNL took sovereignty from BoB.  Due to the vagaries of POS warfare it will go back for a few days, but then it'll be back to UNL again properly.  And Bob have lost sov in the R97 station system too.

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Ratadm
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Reply #992 on: August 01, 2007, 04:42:30 PM

The big think about losing sov is that they can no longer use a cyno jammer I believe.
Comstar
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Reply #993 on: August 01, 2007, 10:30:05 PM

Might as well post this before someone else does: MC lost a Mothership in 49-U a little bit ago.

According to the IAC combat report, No AAA caps were involved (the final blow was done by a Raven!). Only Dread to make an appearance was Tyraxx (who didn't die, his luck has changed). MC had 3 MS and a carrier, and were lucky they only lost 1 MS and 1 CV.  Seelene only escaped because the dysnc allowed the bubbles not to effect his MS, desync was occuring both sides.

It was not a planned battle, it was an escalating meeting engagement that occurred because MC deployed 4 MS's vs a 21 man fleet  and this gave IAC/AAA pilots an excuse to join the brawl. While MC is good at what they do, and the battle for 49-U is far from over, (and FIX still holds it solidly) they don't seem to get good results vs IAAAAC.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 10:43:11 PM by Comstar »

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Endie
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Reply #994 on: August 02, 2007, 01:11:57 AM

The big think about losing sov is that they can no longer use a cyno jammer I believe.

Exactly.  Even if they somehow managed to kill some of our POSes (heh), erect and defend their own, and get back long-term sovereignty it would be a month before they could erect cyno jammers again.  Molle can no longer swan around in his titan like it was the good old days.  Next time he's tackled in 66 he'll have good reason to be terrified of cynos.

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neep
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Reply #995 on: August 02, 2007, 01:24:50 AM

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/SedithDesynched.jpg

Looks like he genuinely desynced at some point. He still won't get it back, most likely.

You have to be brave/stupid to field (super)caps these days. I think I'll just play my goon alt some more  wink
Endie
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Reply #996 on: August 02, 2007, 01:43:29 AM

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/SedithDesynched.jpg

Looks like he genuinely desynced at some point. He still won't get it back, most likely.

You have to be brave/stupid to field (super)caps these days. I think I'll just play my goon alt some more  wink

In the unlikely event that you genuinely have a goon alt then you are the worst spy ever.  Your IP is logged on here, where I seem to remember that at least one mod is a goon.  Your IP is logged on goonfleet.com.  Ridiculous excuses like "harumph, well, of course I always spoof when using GF.com" will not wash.

On the upside, you're probably speaking nonsense.  But you should get a goon alt.  Half of Eve has one, and all of their ten bucks keep lowtax happy.  You'd find it more fun, you would be made to feel right at home in Rho squad, and we're not losing systems and T2 ships like there's no tomorrow.  Which, for some involved, there isn't.

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neep
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Reply #997 on: August 02, 2007, 02:10:43 AM

Its just for fun. No wild spy stuff is going on.
Endie
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Reply #998 on: August 02, 2007, 02:19:36 AM

Its just for fun. No wild spy stuff is going on.

Harumph.. that's just what a spy would say.

Now that we have another newbie drive firing up, however, it would be hard to be a spy in GF:

"They're going to 66-... no, wait, some of them are going to 46-dp and attacking rats on the gate.. erm, some are just orbiting the station with MWD on til their cap runs out... their own fleet commander just blew up seven of them for losing points on targets... two of them are attacking their fleet commander for blowing up their mate..."

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Simond
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Reply #999 on: August 02, 2007, 02:42:40 AM

"...the FC sounds incredibly drunk and is screaming at his own echo on TS to shut up otherwise he'll pod his dog. Oh God, he started singing"

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
neep
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Reply #1000 on: August 02, 2007, 02:45:48 AM

I always considered it a lot of fun to be able to switch sides in an MMO for a bit. It's much more fun to blow up your mates than some complete stranger after all. Especially when you get to wave killmails around and make fun of them afterwards.
Endie
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Reply #1001 on: August 02, 2007, 03:49:04 AM

I always considered it a lot of fun to be able to switch sides in an MMO for a bit. It's much more fun to blow up your mates than some complete stranger after all. Especially when you get to wave killmails around and make fun of them afterwards.

OK, you've won me over.  Please give me an invite into BoB so I can kill Dungar and Apple Boy.  I promise not to spy or steal everything out of your hangars.

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bhodi
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Reply #1002 on: August 02, 2007, 04:56:40 AM

erm, some are just orbiting the station with MWD on til their cap runs out...
This was the most enjoyable part of the game for me -- the buildup to finally be able to fit a MWD and finally, the payoff when you see how fast you can go... around and around and around and around!
dwindlehop
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Reply #1003 on: August 02, 2007, 02:36:23 PM

erm, some are just orbiting the station with MWD on til their cap runs out...
This was the most enjoyable part of the game for me -- the buildup to finally be able to fit a MWD and finally, the payoff when you see how fast you can go... around and around and around and around!
Word. I still do it every time I reach a new speed plateau.
Toast
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Reply #1004 on: August 02, 2007, 04:35:49 PM

I love reading about this war. It's awesome drama that no other game even approaches. It's awesome to see the catass/evil empire get its comeuppance..

A good idea is a good idea forever.
Drogo
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Reply #1005 on: August 03, 2007, 10:34:57 AM

Man what is going on in the North with Triumvirate? What has it been a month or two at most since they moved toward Deklein and now they have driven out VX, Aftermath, Sparta and Storm Armada. Any bets on where they head next? I am thinking they attack the rest of the new north, but I would not put it past them to attack the old north. I also wonder if they are actually going to claim all of Sparta and Storm Armada space or leave it for someone else to move in? That is an awful lot of territory to try and hold on to. TRI is definitely the wild card for the North.
Comstar
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Reply #1006 on: August 03, 2007, 12:19:10 PM

News from the Sideshow FIX front: 4 FIX towers were put into reinforced, though the battle was not considered a success by IAC (I don't know why, though we had 50(?) cap ships in system).

MC lost a Mothership to the IAAAAC fleet and have stopped dropping them on 10-20 man gangs. The initiative still lies with IAAACBOSRECON, and MC has failed to take it back. MC are overrated, though their small gangs still raid Catch getting easy kills. Outbreak was much more of an issue though.

The Clone bay in 49-U is regularly out of service, as is the warp jammer and guns on both sides POSs.

FIX had some internal mails alleging that IAC morale is dropping. The 85+ IAC mining fleet in 49-U disagrees. The FIX intenral emails also allege they put some IAC towers in Catch into reinforced mode. This was news to the owners.

I've learnt that gun-Cruisers are pretty much useless. You can't do enough damage, can't stay out of range, and still get called primary.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 12:20:57 PM by Comstar »

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Endie
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Reply #1007 on: August 03, 2007, 02:44:02 PM

News from the Sideshow FIX front...

Don't do yourselves down: the Fix front is anything but a sideshow.  It's tying down a significant proportion of BoB's pets, including MC and fix, and Bob know perfectly well what will happen when Fix falls and they are still committed to the southern front with the Redswarm Federation.

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #1008 on: August 03, 2007, 04:34:00 PM

FIX had some internal mails alleging that IAC morale is dropping. The 85+ IAC mining fleet in 49-U disagrees. The FIX intenral emails also allege they put some IAC towers in Catch into reinforced mode. This was news to the owners.
News to me, too.  Unless this is from some other corp's mail ad not the alliance, I have no idea what you're talking about.

--Dave

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Simond
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Reply #1009 on: August 03, 2007, 04:36:43 PM

Probably a random FIXian trying to do propaganda in Local/CAOD/somewhere else, Mahrin.
Speaking of propaganda, my favourite CAOD poster is at it again....
Quote
Very well, this has become a long post by CAOD standards. I will reward those who have made it this far with a quick summary.

BoB is undeniably losing the POS war, and its failures to attack and defend deathstars are unprecedented. They can only result in the loss of more and more territory.
BoB's participation is declining and will continue to do so, especially for capitals. This is the result of their failure to get easy wins, and also makes certain more failures in the future: a classic failure cascade.
BoB and pets, the supply lines will not save you. Feythabolis is close to the front lines, and jump bridges and other Eve features prevent distance from being an important factor. The Querious front puts you in an even more perilous situation.
The ISK for POSes will not save you. RSF has plenty of cash and, unlike BoB, is not losing deathstars. As the front moves westward, RSF can reuse deathstars to avoid being out-spammed.
Red Alliance will not spare you. It desires, deserves, is gaining and will have its breathing space, at your expense.
CCP will not save you. It is not going to radically alter the game or break it for your benefit. If it wanted to do that, it would not have fixed the supercapitals. You are outnumbered due to your own faults and you will increasingly be outnumbered as your participation drops and pets flee your side.
Constellation sovereignty will not save you. It will not make your systems invincible, and in fact will assist RSF more than you due to the introduction of jump bridges.
The Mercenary Coalition will not save you. It is busy in Querious, where it has not been distinguishing itself but has been providing lots of fun for IAC and AAA.
Bonus note: Seleene screwed up big time, and I told you so.
BoB, the renters will not save you. You have failed to live up to your own contract terms. They owe you no loyalty and will not turn out in greater numbers to make up for your own failings.
Renters, BoB will not save you. It cannot hold its own systems and is weakening steadily in terms of both fleet performance and capital participation. Do your own people a favor and get out while the getting is good.
BoB directorate, your organization will not experience a second wind, and you will not find a magic fix in either a morale blog or threats of mandatory ops. Your job will not become more pleasant as the defeats pile up and your people demand answers and offer unrealistic solutions.
Things may look bad for BoB now, but they are going to get much, much worse.


"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Comstar
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Reply #1010 on: August 03, 2007, 09:13:15 PM

James315 is my favourite poster in COAD. I need to send him some ISK in thanks for a fat better stratagic analysis than anyone has elsewhere, even if he may be wrong, he's well written.  He'd never be allowed to do it (even if he could or wanted to) but I would love to see him on EVE-TV one day.


In war news IAC put some of the 49-U crucial station services (cloning, fitting, repairing) into off mode, and put another POS into reinforced. So that makes 5 POS's up for grabs in 1-3 days, though earlier in the day we lost a cap ship and fleet (Tyraxx seems to be responsible for all IAC fiascos these days). (edit: another POS destroyed because it was attacked while being anchored. MCFIX made no effort to save it).

I think right now MC would have been more useful attacking Goonfleet's rear area's into/from Great Wildlands. FIX is doing an somewhat-ok job holding off the Central Coalition, and isn't doing much better with MC leading fleets either.  MC's assistance has not yet dramaticly changed anything strategically. Right now the're acting like Outbreak (coming into FAT 1d3 times a day and killing 1d6 ratters), and not doing it as well as Outbreak do. FIX would have got a better deal if the'd hired Outbreak to do that. Outbreak would threaten both ends of Catch, MC is only raiding the FAT end of it.

Comedy news report: If CCP made Mario Brothers, Youtube video, open in a new tab.

Late news update: the Outpost in MB- is now up (unknown what happened to the petition). In 30 days IAC gets constallation sov in the JZV homeland.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 08:10:08 AM by Comstar »

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neep
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Reply #1011 on: August 04, 2007, 01:22:53 PM

Quote
James315 is my favourite poster in COAD. I need to send him some ISK in thanks for a fat better stratagic analysis than anyone has elsewhere

ah well, as the man said:
James 3:15
Endie
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Reply #1012 on: August 04, 2007, 03:44:12 PM

AAA just unveiled a second titan.  Unveiled by using it to destroy a YouWhat convoy coming down to help Fix (the first time YW had decided to do this).

RA just unveiled their titan.

Bob just brought 200 pilots (many worthless pets) including dreads to 66-, so the coalition brought 400.  Of course, lag is in the many-minutes range, and desynchs are everywhere, so this could go either way.  Either side could get utterly destroyed, or nothing might happen.  Interesting balance of numbers at Bob's utterly best time of the week for a mandatory op, though - weekend evenings euro (and GF's worst time).

I wonder if James315's continual and successful (in purely forum warfare terms) taunting, particularly about Bob losing almost 50 large towers in the last 8 weeks for zero killed in return, prompted an all-out attempt to win a pos battle?  Nobody understands like goons that it'll be hard when they're so deeply penetrated by spies that we plan counter-ops almost 24 hours in advance.  Been there, suffered that.

Edit: Spelling
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 04:56:48 PM by Endie »

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #1013 on: August 05, 2007, 12:43:31 AM

What a difference a day makes.  As Comstar told, BOS spammed down 4 large POS in 49-U right before DT, we counter-spammed but one was attacked before it got to online and we let it go, another the haulers were killed (apparently inside the shields) and it was put into reinforced.  Because the haulers got killed, it was short on stront (12 hours I think) and just came out about half an hour ago.

In between that POS being placed in reinforced and it coming out, ISS and AXE arrived in force (YW- was unfortunately delayed tongue).  3 BOS POS were attacked by an impromptu FIX dread fleet (MC was not present, AXE had Steel Rat), 2 had two hours of stront and one had none, all three were destroyed.  The short-stront FIX tower was not attacked (in fact, we killed a carrier in 25S shortly before it was supposed to come out).  The five IAC small towers were not even fueled (perhaps they were 100M isk "Pings" to create DED mails for their spies to read before they could be deleted?), and were destroyed.

At the end of the day, IAC and friends are actually *farther* from interrupting Sov than they were before, their numbers advantage is closing, and the lack of stront in their towers as well as the fact that it was *4* BOS POS spammed and not 5 would indicate their logistics are strained.  5 FIX towers remain to come out of reinforced, at 4 to 7 hour intervals over a 26 hour period ending Monday afternoon.  Even if IAC and company manage to stage 5 fleet ops in 26 hours, successfully and without major losses, killing all 5 remaining reinforced POS, their attempted knockout punch will be a failure.  Again.

MC did prove to be something of a mixed blessing, if only because their presence acted as a flashpoint attracting both more IAC participation and alliances that had previously been uninvolved.  On the other hand, we still own 49-U, something that would have been questionable without their assistance, and impossible if a significant portion of that bump to IAC forces had shown up anyway.  3 to 1 doesn't scare us, 10 to 1 would really have sucked.

--Dave

EDIT: BTW, thank you for shooting up the 49-U services.  It gives our carriers something to do after you go home.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 12:51:41 AM by MahrinSkel »

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Endie
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Reply #1014 on: August 05, 2007, 01:46:07 AM

Meanwhile, back on the RSF front, BoB's Big Push ended in total and abject failure.  They came to 66- with the complete works, allies and all, intending to put our PoSs into reinforced the way they did in 9-9 a few weeks ago.  They ended up with an array of their PoSs in reinforced.  They almost succeeded in defending one PoS, but couldn't maintain their defense, and after that the high point of their night was, erm, not losing a hauler trying to online some PoS guns.  We stole the guns, though.  The night ended up with us holding the system handily and going around reinforcing their PoSs, with some of them having some very interesting stront timing.

Another brilliant strategic result, but this time in Bob primetime, at the time and place of their choosing.  We also won the k/d ratio yet again if any chuckleheads care.  tongue

Edit: We just took down a Bob large PoS in Bob's most important system on this front, in Bob primetime when bob had called a strategic op to defend it.  Read into that what you will.

Another Edit:  Sixteen PoS guns and other modules removed and a UNL Large put up in place of the Bob tower.  Sovereignty in this system will now come to us and our awesome allies.  As someone said in channel: "gg next map".
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 04:15:08 PM by Endie »

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