War

[5150]

So in summary

BOB pets being bailed out by BOB pets [again]

[Endie]

Hey, it's at least given Mahrin the moral boost necessary to get him to post again: seeing that red name lingering sadly and silently at the top of the war thread every morning, but never posting has been kinda plaintive.

[Morat20]

So in summary

BOB pets being bailed out by BOB pets [again]

Isn't that the whole point of an alliance?

[MahrinSkel]

In the current model of Eve warfare, where 4 or more alliances attack 1, if you don't have allies you can count on, all you can do is delay your inevitable demise.  We've *done* the "fight to the end, alone" thing, it sucks.  Since IAC just brought in yet *another* alliance on their side (The Reckoning, with a Mothership), claiming that we're too weak to stand against the assault without our friends (when we've done just that against odds of over 3 to 1 for over a month) seems a little...disingenuous.

As for the silence, it's just been on this thread lately.  I usually don't comment much about FIX's ongoing battles, and I don't know anything about what is happening in the Tenerifis area.

--Dave

EDIT: The thing is, even though I'm no longer in the FIX command structure, I know too much about what FIX's capabilities, intentions, and goals are, enough that I can usually figure out our plans.  I don't comment on situations that are still in flux for FIX, because it's too easy to give away intel.  Speaking strictly of the overall strategic situation, what this comes down to is yet *another* contest over the FAT area escalating into a do-or-die fight as allies are called in.  FAT is shiny (very Megacyte rich) but strategically very far from Empire (20 jumps).  So it draws alliances to it like flies to amber, who then find themselves over-extended.  The only alliance ever to hold FAT and *not* regret it eventually is AAA, who realized their mistake and gave it to IAC.

[Merusk]

So here's a question... if "MC" is always hired by BoB, why the fuck aren't they just considered a bobbite?  Seems to me that once GF/RA were doing well, it would have behooved them to hire MC to remove that pawn from the board if they ARE in fact a true Mercenary group.

But that's just the tactician in me talking.

[Arthur_Parker]

MC have stated they will never work for goons, MC do accept other contracts in Empire for example. 

Plus the whole pet/meatshield insult thing is a load of bollocks, friends help friends, if someone is a true pet (in the sense of not being a strong enough pvp force to stand on their own) then they won't be much help in a war.  Fix shouldn't need to explain why they have friends helping or have hired help when their system is under attack, not asking for help when you need it is stupid.

[Simond]

Plus the whole pet/meatshield insult thing is a load of bollocks, friends help friends, if someone is a true pet (in the sense of not being a strong enough pvp force to stand on their own) then they won't be much help in a war.

See GONAD, the New North, et al.

[Merusk]

MC have stated they will never work for goons, MC do accept other contracts in Empire for example. 

So then they ARE Bob pets in all but name.  Ok then.

[Arthur_Parker]

I think BoB used to call the shots for MC, now I think the situation has changed slightly.

MC before killing D2

MC after killing D2

[Endie]

Bob's New North on way back to empire

MC if Russians get involved with their cap fleet

[Simond]

Interesting times in 66- right now.

Edit: Damn, he got away.
Shrike/SirMolle's 'new' titan (jacked from Hedgemon Rast) was tackled in front of a BoB POS. (No dread HOT DROP was possible due to the 66- cyno jammer). Chowdown then showed up on local. Shrike was into armour & dropping when eventually the POS guns cleared enough enemies for SirMolle to escape...so he warped to a planet.

Remaining RSF fleet followed, tackled him again and then died to his doomsday. Not enough reinforcements left to tackle him for a third time, so he finally warped to safety.

If I were Hedgemon Rast, I'd be spitting feathers by this point.

[Morat20]

By "jacked, you mean he just jumped up the priority queue and got the new one, instead of whoever it was originally being built for? (Is Rast a person or a corp?).

If I get the story right, Molle was in a new titan (how do you even fit those?), got jumped, got hammered, barely got away, got followed, dropped a doomsday on the idiots who followed him, and then got away clean?

[Simond]

'Jacked' =
Hedgemon Rast used to fly an Avatar.
So did SirMolle/Shrike.
SirMolle got his exploded by RSF.
SirMolle flies a 'new' Avatar.
Hedgemon no longer flies an Avatar.

And yes, you summed it up pretty well - bear in mind that if the cyno jammer wasn't online, he'd have had a few dozen dreads dropped on his head the first time (or, more accurately, he wouldn't have left a friendly POS to begin with).

[neep]

At least he is improving  :-D

[Endie]

At least he is improving  :-D

True dat.  Is it true he got fleet-warped?  Seems more likely to me.

I imagine that the phone calls to anyone who knew the Orange Species account details and wasn't at work would have been fast and furious.  Funny, I always thought that Morning Orange Species would be first to lose a titan (logged out doesn't count: it's just shotting pos): now Molle is apparently desperate to be first to lose two.

[neep]

He got gang warped to the planet where he desynced, recovered and fired the doomsday.

Its still tricky to take a titan out for a spin when there is an entire fleet ready to tackle you but at least its possible again under certain conditions.

[Endie]

Those conditions being sov level 3 and no logged off russians in dreads in-system...

[Endie]

Bob's weird under-performance continues: last night we turned up in fleet strength, and although they started off with numbers advantage (and obviously with shinier ships) we just hammered them for three hours.  The simplest (and stupidest) measure is k/d ration, of course, where they lost 28 battleships to our 16.  We lost 79 ships to their 82, but of course a lot of our ships were lol goon rabble - they did pop our tacklers well - whereas they only had 9 straight T1, T1-fitted ships on the list.  I guess James315 might be right: all their signings from LV and others in the last year have been dross, and their allies suck.

[Comstar]

I don't know exactly how the fighting has been going in 49-U, but MC lost a carrier (apparently came out of warp 10km short of a POS and AAA/IAC jumped on it) and 1 of the 3 POS's coming out of reinforced was destroyed. I missed the first POS (work) and will be asleep for POS 2 and 3.

2 MC's motherships were stationed on the 49-U gate.

[Simond]

AnthonyZ/Kugutsumen just trolled the everliving crap out of SHC, and Dianabolic bit hard.
(Why trolling? Well, compare his post to this :D)

[Yoru]

AnthonyZ/Kugutsumen just trolled the everliving crap out of SHC, and Dianabolic bit hard.
(Why trolling? Well, compare his post to this :D)

I think Dianabolic's post got moderated out of existence. At least, I don't see it any more.

Edit: Oh wait, the "next page" button isn't where I expected. Nevermind.

[Endie]

Sadly, when Mittani posted the details of how dianabolic had been trolled, and coffeetable posted the link, Hippoking locked the thread  .  4 down.  Three letters, colloquialism or euphemism for cigarette.  It was going awesomely, with dianabolic proclaiming the saintliness of T20 and conveniently ignoring his alliance welcoming Kug's previous employers into their corps post-facto.

Fact is, for all that AnthonyZ hugely damaged GF, both with his LV hack and then by driving Mittani fruitloops by fuelling his paranoia, he did as much as anyone to fix the game, by forcing CCP to accept that they were seen (fairly justifiably) as corrupt to an extent that was beyond the pale.  Him and Bane Glorious.

Edit: Spelling

[Arthur_Parker]

Goonfleet opens a public forum.

http://www.goonfleet.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48

This is going to be interesting.

[Fordel]

That's just frighting. 

[dwindlehop]

Is no one who reads F13 up on what happens in the north? I'm kinda curious about how RAZOR is faring.

[Fordel]

My understanding of the North is it is currently a giant cluster fuck. I'm sure that clears it up for you completely! 

[Comstar]

All 3 FIX POS towers in 49-U were destroyed by battleship gangs while the McFIX fleet apperntly didn't do much, though they might have killed 1 carrier. IAC/AAA/Reckoning/BOS gang got to 250 vs about 100 McFIX. As the fight was done with non-cap ships, a BoB Titan could well have decided things if it had shown up.

FIX loses sov in a few days, though will get it back after a day or two.

[Endie]

Is no one who reads F13 up on what happens in the north? I'm kinda curious about how RAZOR is faring.

I know that Sparta and allies got beaten to a pulp by Tri and others in a huge fleet action a few days ago, and lost their cap ship yards complete with nascent mothership.  I think there was a temporary NAPfest for that between MM, Tri and Razor though I doubt if it lasted after the victory.

[MahrinSkel]

Tyrrax seems to have miscounted POS somewhere along the line, and 49-U is still in FIX hands.

--Dave

[Endie]

Something of tremendous strategic importance is happening right now in 66.  I've had to leave to goto work (late) now, but if it keeps moving in our direction like it was, BoB are going to be beaten back on yet another of their alarm clock ops.  That said, it's very hard to tell just what is going on from nothing but counting wrecks, so we'll see.

Edit: last ten kills on each side - chosen right now true at virtually any time.  Bob are getting killed faster, so theirs' are part of a group of kills within 2 minutes.  Goons' happened over the last 14 minutes, but are pretty much the same engagement:

Bob losses: claymore, tempest, megathron, arazu, malediction, claw, armageddon, crow, megathron, taranis

Goon losses: rifter, rifter, rifter, merlin, incursus, heretic, scorpion, rifter, rifter, rifter

Ouch.  The first kill alone on that bob list costs more to replace than all of those GF ships by a factor of several.

[Megrim]

What the hell are the BoB FCs doing to trade upper-tier ships for so many Rifters?!

[Endie]

I dunno: perhaps just suicidal desperation?  If our UNL allies' POSes make it through this fight then Bob lose sufficient sov for the next month to not be able to erect cyno jammers.  Since what's happening now always seems to happen if they can't use their supercaps these days, they're getting desperate and launched repeated, costly attacks on us, each getting beaten off.  There were so many wrecks we had to blow them up because of the lag they were causing.

Also, their pilots seem to be getting sick of losing their battleships and command ships (oh, the command ships in the kms) - or don't have them - so more and more were using inties, which are great for killing lolT1frigates, but of no real value whatsoever when, on the third attack, you choose to send what's left of your sniper fleet into the enemy at zero.  The 90 minutes or so, however, I'm just guessing at from the KB and what's going on in our forums.

As you can imagine, those forums are pretty enjoyable right now.  A few hours ago, 66 had hostile cyno jammers up, a Bob alarm clock op called, five of our POSes vulnerable to attack in just about our worst timezone...  Now we have a month of proper fights with the likelihood of no retarded-CCP invulnerable titans, and we know who wins those fights these days.

[Simond]

Tyrrax seems to have miscounted POS somewhere along the line, and 49-U is still in FIX hands.

Doesn't surprise me all that much, tbqh - Tyrrax is the sort of person who uses Impocs as bait-ships, so a reckless miscounting of POSes/missing a 'hidden'* POS is fairly plausible.

Fleet battle of [img-pyramidhead] stuff

What makes it more amusing is that most of the BoB pets & allies (down here in the south, at least - RISE, SOCO et al) are utterly convinced that BoB are kicking the everliving crap out of RSF and have been doing so for weeks. I mean, this goes beyond propaganda and well into kool-aid territory.


*'Hidden' POS as in one in orbit around a moon not within ship-scanner range of straight-line warps between gates/outpost/existing POSes. Useful up until the point where the enemy fleet commander gets annoyed and starts sending out covops to find them. :)

[Endie]

What makes it more amusing is that most of the BoB pets & allies (down here in the south, at least - RISE, SOCO et al) are utterly convinced that BoB are kicking the everliving
crap out of RSF and have been doing so for weeks. I mean, this goes beyond propaganda and well into kool-aid territory.

I just don't understand it, myself.  Between us we've taken, what, five or six station systems from Bob in the five weeks?  Of the two places that they chose to make their stands, D2 is a matter of time and 66 is swinging in our direction.  And yet they honestly seem to believe they have reason to be pleased. Long may such delusions last, of course: it lets us get stuff done.

And Rise, likewise, genuinelly seem to believe that they repelled a GF invasion recently.  I mean, we've fought one pitched battleagainst them recently and this is what happened.  For some, that Rise killboard might need some explanation: they weren't outnumbered 82-23.  Numbers were 78-82.  But you only get mentioned on that sort of battle-report if you are on a killmail, either as victim or winner.  And since they only managed to kill one T1 cruiser and two T1 frigates before they scarpered, leaving 21 dead ships behind, most of their survivors never got on a killmail, and so don't appear.  Don't Rise know that they are dead men walking?!?

If anyone is interested, here is a screenshot of one of the fleets we deployed today: this was the smaller one for an earlier op in 66.

[Megrim]

I dunno: perhaps just suicidal desperation?  If our UNL allies' POSes make it through this fight then Bob lose sufficient sov for the next month to not be able to erect cyno jammers.  Since what's happening now always seems to happen if they can't use their supercaps these days, they're getting desperate and launched repeated, costly attacks on us, each getting beaten off.  There were so many wrecks we had to blow them up because of the lag they were causing.

Also, their pilots seem to be getting sick of losing their battleships and command ships (oh, the command ships in the kms) - or don't have them - so more and more were using inties, which are great for killing lolT1frigates, but of no real value whatsoever when, on the third attack, you choose to send what's left of your sniper fleet into the enemy at zero.  The 90 minutes or so, however, I'm just guessing at from the KB and what's going on in our forums.

As you can imagine, those forums are pretty enjoyable right now.  A few hours ago, 66 had hostile cyno jammers up, a Bob alarm clock op called, five of our POSes vulnerable to attack in just about our worst timezone...  Now we have a month of proper fights with the likelihood of no retarded-CCP invulnerable titans, and we know who wins those fights these days.

Actually, i was thinking more in terms of their tactics. Like, what the hell, how?