EvE Devs play with BoB. Investigation in progress....New Scandal page 9!

[Simond]

What if SOE had pulled half the crap CCP's done in the last year - would they be getting a bye?

Eh, they pretty much did. But you know, the company never kicked your dog and so your level of outrage seems excessive. I'm all for sitting back, enjoying the incompetence and eating popcorn, but the amount of frothing in this thread is bizarre.

How many pages did the original SWG NGE thread go on for, again? How many Vanguard threads were there? And that's just two recent examples - it's just...odd that CCP get a pat on the head and "aaaw, aren't they the cutest little corrupt idiots with no clue how to run a business" while SOE get crucified.

Especially now that SOE has finally started showing some signs about having learnt at least some of their lessions whereas CCP is still in full-on "We can do no wrong and we're going to censor/ban anyone that can prove otherwise" mode (a la SOE of half a dozen years ago or so).

[Morat20]

What if SOE had pulled half the crap CCP's done in the last year - would they be getting a bye?

Eh, they pretty much did. But you know, the company never kicked your dog and so your level of outrage seems excessive. I'm all for sitting back, enjoying the incompetence and eating popcorn, but the amount of frothing in this thread is bizarre.

How many pages did the original SWG NGE thread go on for, again? How many Vanguard threads were there? And that's just two recent examples - it's just...odd that CCP get a pat on the head and "aaaw, aren't they the cutest little corrupt idiots with no clue how to run a business" while SOE get crucified.

Especially now that SOE has finally started showing some signs about having learnt at least some of their lessions whereas CCP is still in full-on "We can do no wrong and we're going to censor/ban anyone that can prove otherwise" mode (a la SOE of half a dozen years ago or so).

I suspect it's because of the segmented nature of the game. If you're not a 0.0 pilot, you're not directly affected. If you ARE a 0.0 pilot -- odds are how you feel is affected by what side you're on (if you are on a side). And a lot of people just ignore it as a bunch of game and meta-gaming politics. It's rather hard to tell how much is the truth, how much is spin, and how much is really all that unusual for any game.

It's hard to really take whatever the latest allegations are seriously, because of the whole "Band of Developers" shit that goes with it. It feels like whining, and so I suspect a lot of people take it less seriously.

Frankly, I think the vast majority of EVE pilots just tune it out to a large degree. Places like here -- it seems more up front, because this is the sort of place people talk about that sort of thing. In game? Not so much.

[Simond]

It'll be interesting to see if people's opinions of CCP change when their complaints about the impending economic, shall we say, event (triggered by the changes to complexes) also get summarily deleted and people are told to stop whining by CCP. :D

[Arthur_Parker]

The current situation follows a set pattern.

1. CCP Forum censorship of each new allegation (makes it worse)
2. CCP Blame the messenger (unprofessional, always makes it worse), twice in the last week they have had to say sorry for this.
3. CCP Change their policies or release a statement of intent to try to prevent future similar issues (A lot of the goodwill that would be generated because of this is lost because of 1 & 2)

T20 spawning items for BoB
Blamed K and banned his 5 accounts, made him a major source of new allegations.
CCP policy change, IA department created.

RP Events rigged
Blamed goonswarm (K was the source)
CCP statement.  Yes,  RP events are rigged but we promise not to favour one alliance with the rewards.

Dev joining a corp for unknown reasons
Blamed goonswarm (mistakes on both sides)
CCP policy change, in future devs will contact the corp before joining

Reporter getting fired by msn BoB contact
Blamed goonswarm (K was the source)
CCP policy change, players aren't allowed to boast about their msn dev contacts in-game.

It would be a better idea to just skip 1 & 2, lock the allegation threads with a "we are looking into it" comment and then jump to 3.

[cmlancas]

But if they did this, I wouldn't give a shit about EVE online. I've read every page of this thread because it is grippingly good drama. Bravo CCP, Bravo.

This should be serialized and published.

[Signe]

I think EVE is a bore and I haven't read SA in years.  It stated out funny but the writing isn't good enough and the forums are just big circle jerks.  Laughed out loud when Uwe Boll beat Lowtax.  HA!  Still cracks me up.  Never cared for the Goons and their whiny exploitive gaming style, but I do have to admit, this thread delivers.

[UnSub]

I agree with Signe - I've got no real interest in playing EVE or the names of the people involved, but it's the drama that is interesting.

EVE is (or should be, if people are paying attention) how games with strong PvP components shouldn't really be handled. Devs should not be allowed to join player guilds because it's like seeing the referee put on the colours of one of the teams - it just invites concerns about fairness and collusion. Volunteers should not be able to look at / get access to player / dev communications. Official forums have to allow a certain level of criticism along side the praise. And the rest of the things that CCP has had problems with recently.

You'd think these things would be common sense, but EVE is providing a pretty good case study on what happens when you don't do them.

On top of that, having a player-elected Oversight Committee - voted in by players (likely along corporation lines) and then given a free trip to 'audit' a company on their dime - is just a brilliant idea and at the least guarantees this thread will keep rolling along for the foreseeable future.

[Arthur_Parker]

More drama incoming.

[Megrim]

Oh god, yes.   

[DraconianOne]

More drama incoming.

I'm on the edge of my seat!  Don't hold back... tell us all! 

[Arthur_Parker]

Fuck it, I'm just going to post it all if someone wants to object feel free to delete this post or den it.

Here it is. 

FYI
1. The Mittani is marauder841@yahoo.com
2. The Mittani doesn't like CCP
3. I personally believe CCP shouldn't staff organisations that control their pvp game with players from the game.

**************************************************************************

http://reaps.cacheboy.net/drama/fuckgoons.doc

TEXT ONLY VERSION


http://reaps.cacheboy.net/drama/eronarn.txt

NOTE 1: The contents of this letter were sent to the current CEO of Goonswarm, Sesfan Qu'lah, and brushed off as falsified despite him having prior knowledge of my involvement with The Mittani, and my status as an ISD volunteer. I would like to claim that the current directorate approves of openness about  past events, but this is quite obviously not the case. Out of a fear of reprisal against Goonswarm from outside elements, and presumably of similar actions against themselves by angered goons internally, he has decided to attempt to obfuscate the truth further rather than openly take a stance against corruption. Because of that, this letter comes without his approval. I hope that in time he, or whoever takes his place, will face these claims head on and either disprove them or come to terms with them rather than trying to take an evasive stance. Instead of treating the matter tactfully and attempting to come to a resolution that would either not involve anyone beyond the directorate, or a joint statement release of some kind, I have been brushed away and penalized for trying to expose the truth. While The Mittani, who is the subject of most of the claims in this letter, has quit EVE it is clear to me by my interactions with Goonswarm lately that his legacy remains.

NOTE 2: While these chatlogs will probably make me look just as bad as The Mittani, I would remind the reader that they were for the explicit purpose of gaining his trust and therefore needed to play up to his personality and beliefs. While it clearly worked, many of the claims or statements I make in these chatlogs are exaggerated for the purposes of bait, and are not necessarily my own personal beliefs even if there is some truth in a given statement.

   This letter is intended for the eyes of CCP, Aurora, ISD, SW (love you guys!), Internal Affairs, SHC, CAOD, Band of Brothers, Kugutsumen, EVE Online players in general, and most importantly - my lovely friends within Goonswarm to whom this letter is dedicated to in the first place:

   My name is James, though some of you will know me as Eronarn Palazzo or [EA]Hoorj (EA = Aurora Event Actor). I've actually gone by the latter two names far more regularly than my real one over the year in which I've enjoyed playing EVE. That period of my life has drawn to a close, sadly, but as I expected to play for three to six months when I first signed up as an innocent Goonswarm newbee the fact that it kept my attention for twice that is an impressive feat indeed. To be honest every player who hasn't quit despite the claims of scandal, allegations of abuse, broken game mechanics, terrible fleet lag, and so on can be considered proof of how unique EVE is in a genre flooded with derivative games. While I don't write this letter for the benefit of CCP I do generally approve of what they have done with their world, and I wish them the best with it in the future even if I won't be a part of it!

   Now that who I am has been made clear, I can proceed to the point of this letter. Originally I had planned to send this to IA for a preliminary evaluation and to obtain clearance to release it, but unfortunately a recent leak of chatlogs from another source has forced me to publish this letter early. I have been sitting on this information for months, but now is the most appropriate time to let it see the light of day. In short my claim can be described as this: The Mittani, spymaster and then CEO of Goonswarm, has been receiving aid on internal ISD/CCP affairs for the past several months in matters both trivial and important in the areas of Aurora events, future changes of game mechanics, and CCP staff personal information. Additionally, every single allegation made by Goonswarm in their most recent 'threadnought' / forums invasion / open letter was intentionally framed and deployed in a way designed to maximize damage to CCP's reputation both within its own game and in the eyes of the gaming community at large, if not outright faked or misrepresented to the point of absurdity. Those responsible for this wave of accusations knew from the start that they were utterly baseless, yet aggressively spread them regardless of that fact for the purposes of harming the public perception of their enemy and taking 'revenge' against CCP for the perceived mistreatment of Goonswarm.

   Parts of this claim, if you will note, mirror that of CCP's findings which were released as a rather strikingly harshly-worded in-game news report on the topic. I imagine that much of the public has already taken CCP's word as truth in this matter and in this case they are entirely correct in doing so. However, the matter is not entirely settled, in my opinion. I am sure that the investigation was carried out ethically and effectively by IA and I'm impressed with the response speed to it, especially given the fact that it was an attack planned around a holiday weekend. However, CCP's eventual castigation of the accusers was not nearly harsh enough. While IA did a good job in responding to the allegations in a forceful manner, showing that future false claims will not be tolerated, they did not have the necessary resources available to them to show conclusive proof of player misconduct rather than simply dispelling the false claims of developer misconduct. I have come to present proof that the former did occur – and I use myself to do so. Over the past few months I have been a source of NDA-restricted information to my alliance via direct communication with multiple directors including the then-CEO of Goonswarm, The Mittani. This behavior was not only allowed but was actively encouraged by the recipients, and was spread to others in the command structure (including the current CEO of Goonswarm) who similarly took no issue with the behavior and in fact found it to be a justified response to their enemies having engaged in the same. Therefore, the same people who organized the smear campaign against CCP were at the same time knowingly receiving illicit aid similar to what they accused their opponents (quite vocally) of obtaining.

   The proof that I am who I claim to be rests on my word alone. My sudden removal from the ISD program prevented me from obtaining conclusive proof of involvement with it other than the archived Aurora emails and event chatlogs that I still have, which I will not include as they are not directly relevant. The kind of persons who would doubt my claim of my identity are ones who wouldn't believe the contents of this letter anyways. I have my suspicions as to who tipped off CCP that I had been the source of a leak and thereby achieved my expulsion from ISD, given the timing of it, but it is truly not of much concern since I had been planning to leave ISD shortly in any case as part of the lengthy process of quitting EVE. While I am regretful that I left ISD and my many friends there with a ban rather than a wave and a smile, the situation has freed me to come forward like this sooner than if I had to instead wait until a later date. I now no longer have to worry about being removed from the program prematurely – that has already happened, after all. I therefore ask the reader to assume that I am telling the truth about my involvement with ISD and to also keep an open mind to the outrageous claims I will make.

   The proof that I am telling the truth about the aid given to Goonswarm directors and CEOs comes in the form of chatlogs. I don't have all the ones relevant to my claims because I communicated across multiple platforms and didn't have logging enabled in all of them, but what I do have should be sufficient to make even the staunchest goon supporter realize that they have been lied to by those in charge. Chatlogs can be faked, of course, but the sheer volume of the logs combined with the presence correct date/timestamps (which can be checked in reference to events as a marker of validity) should result in no other choice when viewing it but to have no reasonable doubts as to the truth of the contents included. I will not provide anything in the way of commentary and will instead leave interpretation of these chatlogs to others, though my contact information has been provided if clarifications on quotes are desired. As The Mittani would term it, here is my 'chatlog porn' clipped down to be easier on the eyes with the most incriminating statements in bold:


(4:34:23 PM) [Goon]: the directorate knows that there's no scandal right
(4:34:31 PM) [Goon Director]: yeah
(4:34:33 PM) [Goon]: k
(4:34:45 PM) [Goon Director]: mittani is right though, it's a good rumor


[NOTE: I have censored the identities involved for the above because both still play EVE. Chatlogs involving The Mittani are uncensored except for where leaving it uncensored might cause problems for a dev, GM, active player/alliance – except where they are necessary for comprehension of the chatlog such as having already been referenced in other public scandals, in which case censoring mention of it would be counterproductive for obvious reasons.]


[17:43] marauder841@yahoo.com: The problem with all these revelations about CCP as we infiltrate them is that the only response seems to be to infiltrate them more


[17:45] marauder841@yahoo.com: Hrm.
[17:45] marauder841@yahoo.com: OK, so what else can you get your hands on from CCP? If [Developer] is in [Alliance], no real reason to respect confidentiality of any kind. X(


[17:53] marauder841@yahoo.com: I suppose the alternative to being petty is to simply seed CCP with as many goon agents as possible
[17:53] marauder841@yahoo.com: How high can you climb?
[17:54] Eronarn: You can get a job at CCP pretty easily actually
[17:54] marauder841@yahoo.com: Do you have any interest in this?


[15:29] marauder841@yahoo.com: OK so this is huge, the new pos stuff
[15:29] marauder841@yahoo.com: the cyno inhibitors are a godsend to defensive war
[15:29] marauder841@yahoo.com: But we need to find out ASAP what the rough eta on these changes going live is
[15:30] Eronarn: not soon
[15:30] Eronarn: that stuff isn't even going to be fully working on sisi for a few weeks
[15:30] marauder841@yahoo.com: They're doing a lot of updating on test, I'm surprised this is even done at this pace thus far
[15:30] Eronarn: they want to get it on sisi asap so that people can test it
[15:31] Eronarn: not enough people have chaos access to test it effectively
[15:31] marauder841@yahoo.com: it'll be very hard to take space with this
[15:31] marauder841@yahoo.com: which is good if we get it in before a bob invasion, bad if bob takes over the galaxy before ti goes in
[15:32] Eronarn: keep in mind that you're going to need to have constellational sov and shit to make it work
[15:33] Eronarn: if it references sov on a POS fitting, 0 = no POS, 1 = system sov, 2 = constellational, 3 = regional, 4 = capital (one per region i think?)
[15:53] marauder841@yahoo.com: Back
[15:54] marauder841@yahoo.com: It seems to be getting a lot of active code focus is I suppose my point, like this is the 'next big thing' and it's getting someone's attentiont 23/7
[15:54] Eronarn: multiple someones actually
[15:54] Eronarn: different devs handling different aspects of the code
[15:55] Eronarn: [Developer 1], [Developer 2] is doing the actual POS modules and stuff. [Developer 3] i think is doing something internal for that
[15:55] Eronarn: [Developer 4] is doing the sov level stuff


[09:48] Eronarn: something doesn't add up with the way [Developer] described stuff in the devblog linked in the [New Feature] thread, it's old but either he's changed his opinion on [New Feature] or he's publicly campaigning for [New Feature] without actually believing [New Feature] do anything of the sort that he describes in that entry. may be worth looking into seeing what [Alliance] is saying about [New Feature] to try and get some circumstantial evidence and such
[09:49] marauder841@yahoo.com: How much contact are you having with the devs club lately?
[09:49] marauder841@yahoo.com: Also, how many of them are usefully homosexual, to be completely venal and blunt?
[09:49] Eronarn: haven't been talking to them much, the other faggots involved are making it difficult
[09:50] Eronarn: one of them is so obsessive that he sets a timer to tell him if [Developer] is late for logging into irc for that day or not
[09:50] marauder841@yahoo.com: A [Alliance] guy?
[09:50] Eronarn: he's never explicitly said but i think he implied he was in [Alliance]
[09:51] Eronarn: he's not a total shill or anything but the dude never shuts up ever and [Developer] doesn't want to talk about EVE all day so he spends less time in irc
[09:51] Eronarn: and on the forums, one guy posted a rant whining instead of actually being productive which will probably also be seen as excess negativity
[09:52] Eronarn: things like that make devs want to spend less time circlejerking with players and so they just don't hang out in irc as much
[09:52] marauder841@yahoo.com: What was the whining rant about?
[09:52] Eronarn: about how they should be giving us more information and so on
[09:52] Eronarn: i don't think they realize that ccp doesn't do that kind of design document or anything and even if they did we wouldn't see it
[09:53] Eronarn: we have to wait for announcements of intent in devblogs mostly, there's no official list of what's coming
[09:53] marauder841@yahoo.com: How many non-[Developer's Name] devs hang out in this irc?
[09:53] Eronarn: five? six?
[09:54] Eronarn: it's pretty quiet, it's [Developer's] and not an official thing
[09:54] Eronarn: so it's not like every dev is in there
[10:00] marauder841@yahoo.com: How long has this plave been drying up? Was this within the last couple of days?
[10:00] marauder841@yahoo.com: Also... 5-6 devs, how many players in the channel?
[10:00] Eronarn: ever since that new guy showed up, gradually. like a few weeks to a month
[10:00] Eronarn: and hmm maybe like 8 tops?
[10:01] Eronarn: and that's including the ones who come in intermittently only
[10:36] marauder841@yahoo.com: [Link to http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?p=10145#post10145, the initial thread about Raekhan]
[10:36] marauder841@yahoo.com: lawl
[10:46] Eronarn: haha holy shit
[10:46] Eronarn: i was in irc when that happened
[10:46] Eronarn: a CCP guy came into IRC and yelled at him
[10:47] Eronarn: in like a minute
[10:47] marauder841@yahoo.com: Do you have logs?
[10:48] Eronarn: nah i don't log IRC, CCP guy's name was Admiral_Chamrajnar or something
[10:48] marauder841@yahoo.com: I'm sure those would be most fascinating
[10:48] marauder841@yahoo.com: Are you serious?
[10:48] marauder841@yahoo.com: THAT faggot?
[10:48] Eronarn: he's the one that announced the titan victory, right
[10:48] Eronarn: i recognized his name from somewhere, anyways
[10:49] marauder841@yahoo.com: Yeah, both titan victory local circlejerks
[10:49] Eronarn: yeah, well he came into Aurora IRC SUPER FAST after it happened
[10:49] Eronarn: and yelled at raekhan
[10:50] Eronarn: then told him to PM him then a bit later raekhan logged off
[10:50] Eronarn: and i never saw him again :iiam:
[10:50] marauder841@yahoo.com: I want those logs. I've been wanting to nail Charmrajar for a while
[10:52] Eronarn: probably not much that could even be done with him he only said a few lines
[10:52] Eronarn: i think he only came in because raekhan had been giving running comnetary of the stuff that happened in local
[10:52] Eronarn: so they wanted to do damage control there too
[10:53] marauder841@yahoo.com: I think it's time for a threadnaught
[10:54] Eronarn: About what specifically
[10:54] marauder841@yahoo.com: I enjoy a good CCP roasting
[10:54] marauder841@yahoo.com: Specifically the whole "BoB guy has Charmrajar on speeddial" thing
[10:56] Eronarn: Well unfortunately I don't have much in the way of proof that it happened the way I described, but it's not like that has stopped kug before really
[10:56] Eronarn: All of the tetrimon stuff matches up too btw, it happened before I joined but there was a huge fuss baout it
[10:57] marauder841@yahoo.com: Believe me, I cry crocodile tears whenever one of these things comes to light. My sympathy for CCP is BOUNDLESS.
[11:00] Eronarn: goddamn I am finishing reading that thing i never realized how harsh they were ono him
[11:01] marauder841@yahoo.com: Do you need to ask why a threadnaught again?
[11:01] Eronarn: Well to be fair he was acting like a cock when stuff happened
[11:01] Eronarn: He did deserve to get kicked out
[11:01] Eronarn: But they don't normally just ignore you after you get kicked out like that
[11:01] marauder841@yahoo.com: What did he do to get kicked out?
[11:02] Eronarn: The part where he told the BoB guy that no, he wasn't going to leave, generally arguign with them
[11:02] Eronarn: Also to clarify this point:
[11:02] Eronarn: ISD IRC acounts have a lot of symbols in their usernames. They signify time-in-service, department membership, and other things, but after 40 seconds, a BRAND NEW userID appeared, bereft of any such demarcations or designations...an illegal and brand new ID...
[11:03] Eronarn: his name in irc was [IC]Raekhar, others would be [STAR] or [EA] or [SEP] or whatever
[11:03] Eronarn: some people don't have a tag, for if they are important in ISD or CCP
[11:03] Eronarn: leads and above (leads < captains < VA < admiral < ccp staff )
[11:04] Eronarn: so basically it was someone from CCP coming in with an already authed/etc. nick to get into the channel
[11:05] marauder841@yahoo.com: Do you know much about Charmrajar? Can you find out who he is/what he does in CCP?
[11:05] Eronarn: he's QA
[11:05] Eronarn: pretty sure, anyways
[11:05] Eronarn: Mostly hanging around the ISD chatroom = GMs, a handful of devs
[11:05] Eronarn: Some CCP staff and volunteer coordinators and such
[11:05] Eronarn: And one IA guy who comes in sometimes
[11:06] marauder841@yahoo.com: Why would a QA guy be able to boss around ISD
[11:07] Eronarn: Quality assurance is pretty high ranking iirc


[13:57] marauder841@yahoo.com: Considering that I confirmed the scandal from my own corrupt ISD contacts I do so enjoy the irony of using a CCP corruption scandal to my own political ends
[13:57] marauder841@yahoo.com: Because really, if I had the devs in my pocket I'd do the same shit
[14:01] Eronarn: nobody in a major alliance would do anything but
[14:01] Eronarn: see: [Alliance] guy that leaves his alliance to become a dev instead of continuing to lead it from the shadows using dev knowledge
[14:01] Eronarn: there's a reason nobody knows who they are
[14:02] marauder841@yahoo.com: So what do you think CCP will do when I unleash 7000 raging goons (most of whom don't even play anymore) on their forums about this one, then call my contacts in the gaming press (much like I did before) and dump a flaming pile of shit in their lap?
[14:06] Eronarn: Well if everything does prove true: public apology, closing of ISD to prevent future leaks, firing or shifting around IA people for failure to get their shit together, hiring new staff for forum moderation, cutting back on EVEO services offered immensely to not have to pay as much money for that, far less community interaction with devs/etc. - or if they are dumb, they might try and compensate by doing a lot more than today, but with the other parts still in effect
[14:06] Eronarn: Possibly some action against [Alliance] itself, specifically stuff like the [Actions of Alliance]
[14:07] Eronarn: Of course they won't lash out against the players, they'll put all blame on their own staff/volunteers
[14:08] marauder841@yahoo.com: Nothing on [Chat] about this yet? Kugu is reaching past 150 active viewers again, that's closing in on t20 scandal levels already
[14:08] Eronarn: Told [Person] about it but we're just talking via PMs
[14:09] marauder841@yahoo.com: What do you think I should do? Right now I figure we should let the scandal simmer for a few more hours
[14:09] marauder841@yahoo.com: Let people get stressed out about it
[14:12] Eronarn: Anonymous ISD tipline posted on kug's site to encourage other ISD people to come through with corruption stories (with some kind of authentication to ensure the truth of it that would only be known by someone in ISD)
[14:12] Eronarn: Whore the hell out of it everywhere eve-related you can, have that be a banner on it
[14:13] Eronarn: a banner on kugutsumen's site that is, and then link his site everywhere
[14:14] marauder841@yahoo.com: Now that's a wild idea
[14:14] Eronarn: It'd work, the numbers of Aurora at least shrunk by a lot
[14:14] Eronarn: And that wasn't all people leaving because they didn't have time
[14:14] Eronarn: I know at least one guy that got all bitter and either left or was kicked
[14:20] marauder841@yahoo.com: What're the [People] saying?
[14:21] marauder841@yahoo.com: I'm also curious if they know yet that I'm considering a threadnaught.
[Here, several lines are cut out to protect the likenesses and identities of my friends in Aurora, because they have played zero part in all of this and do not deserve to have suspicion cast upon them by the public.]
[14:30] marauder841@yahoo.com: Oh gooooood.
[14:30] Eronarn: They're not really a representative sample though, Aurora at least is like 50% clueless empire pubbies from roleplaying corps, 25% real 0.0 corps, 25% people that I am not sure even play EVE
[14:31] Eronarn: I know of people in [Alliance 1], [Alliance 2], [Alliance 3], [Alliance 4], etc. pretty much anyone you'd recognize the initials of
[14:31] Eronarn: Except for [Alliance 5], oddly enough
[14:31] Eronarn: If they're there they're quiet about it
[Several lines here are cut out because they are about Aurora internal workings and aren't really relevant to the discussion.]
[14:48] Eronarn: Now one resource that could work is that tipline thing I mentioned because you could find somenoe who doesn't much care
[14:48] Eronarn: Or, you could talk to Raerkrhrawhatever himself
[14:51] marauder841@yahoo.com: Tipline is pretty cool. But if I have it link to my email ccp might try to ban me
[14:51] marauder841@yahoo.com: I could set up 'isd confessions@gmail.com' or something
[14:51] Eronarn: They'll find it out from someone eventually, you should really have contingency accounts just in case
[14:52] marauder841@yahoo.com: Doesn't much matter, I'm in the best position to avoid retaliation from ccp because I simply do not play


[11:15] Eronarn: i'm nearly 100% sure [Alliance] campaign to get you banned from EVE
[11:16] marauder841@yahoo.com: I can't say I'm surprised
[11:16] marauder841@yahoo.com: Tell me about it.
[11:16] Eronarn: One of them was bugging me asking really specific questions about 'if Mittani had said something about ruining the game for people'
[11:17] marauder841@yahoo.com: Actually this is an old thing with them and other people, I've heard the "if you're trying to ruin the game you're in EULA violation" argument before
[11:17] marauder841@yahoo.com: Who would 'one of them' be?
[11:17] marauder841@yahoo.com: mook level or higher level?
[11:17] Eronarn: A guy who is in [Alliance] or [Alliance], not sure at what level he's at
[11:18] marauder841@yahoo.com: Asked on an ISD char or on a player char?
[11:18] Eronarn: ISD char. That's why I don't know what rank he's at
[11:18] Eronarn: I think he is decently ranked tho
[11:18] Eronarn: He's at least an FC
[11:18] marauder841@yahoo.com: They tried to do this with Rem too
[11:18] marauder841@yahoo.com: Thankfully in EVE "being a griefer" and "Griefing people out of the game" won't result in a ban
[11:18] marauder841@yahoo.com: Also comedy if they did ban me.... so what? :P
[11:19] marauder841@yahoo.com: I never actually play. And I'd get Angry. ^_^
[11:19] Eronarn: Well that is why he wants to know if you've said statements against CCP/EVE, because that is evidence of breaking the EULA (there's that really pointlessly vague clause and all that)
[11:20] marauder841@yahoo.com: Means I've got them right pissed off
[11:21] Eronarn: It may actually be a decent idea to bait them into doing it
[11:21] marauder841@yahoo.com: I'd rather not lose my accounts just in case
[11:21] marauder841@yahoo.com: on the off chance I end up playing
[11:21] marauder841@yahoo.com: however... I think it's time to kick it up a notch
[11:22] marauder841@yahoo.com: I'm going to require all eve-o posters to include a quote of their choice (from a limited selection) from Dianabolic in their sigs.
[11:23] Eronarn: this is a funny idea but CRC will probably snip them for 'spamming'
[11:24] marauder841@yahoo.com: Does that matter really?
[11:24] marauder841@yahoo.com: It's imply heavy handed censorship that'll just piss people off more
[11:24] marauder841@yahoo.com: then you follow up with sigs quoting Arkonon saying they won't censor people ;p
[Discussion on the characteristics of these signatures – cut down for length, as it is not directly relevant]
[11:40] marauder841@yahoo.com: Thoughts/advice on how to deflect a [Alliance] to get me banned?
[11:41] Eronarn: Don't ever mention in-game wanting to destroy CCP/any CCP game/etc.
[11:41] Eronarn: I don't think they will use offsite referneces
[11:48] marauder841@yahoo.com: that's easy
[11:48] marauder841@yahoo.com: since I never log in
[11:50] Eronarn: Yeah it will be tough if they do want to pursue it, really

   Even a quick glance over these chatlogs – which are incomplete due to my aforementioned missing chatlogs and do not even draw upon chatlogs with other directors – will show how eager The Mittani was to do harm to CCP in any way possible regardless of whether it was founded in reality or not. He is a duplicitous person who misled an entire alliance for his own hateful agenda and attempted to cause as much havoc as possible based on admittedly false premises. As stated earlier I will not cite specific incidents in the above chatlogs that prove this, instead leaving it up to the reader's interpretation, since there are too many to address in any reasonable way. I think, however, that it should be quite clear to even a casual reader that his trumped-up accusations actually still managed to be less offensive than actions he himself engaged in willingly and, in fact, eagerly.

   While I did not include all of my chatlogs anyways, the ones that I did include ended abruptly and the last quote that I include was from the last time I talked to The Mittani. He resigned shortly thereafter when CCP's response to the threadnought came, and we have not talked since his departure. As soon as he realized that his campaign had failed among anyone not Goonswarm and that he had even received negative reactions to his behavior on the Goonswarm forums he gave up CEO and quit EVE, ridding it of a man who wished to do nothing more than destroy the world of EVE for his own enjoyment regardless of the cost to the very organization that put him into power.

   Unfortunately, neither his choice of embracing corruption nor his insane polarization of the goon community left with him, as interactions with the current Goonswarm CEO and directors have shown. The same problems that The Mittani caused initially persist to this day and are killing Goonswarm from the inside. In my opening paragraph I stated that this letter was not being written for the benefit of CCP.  It's not being done for my own benefit, either, and I actually expect this to cause me some degree of problems despite no longer playing EVE. Instead, this letter exists for the benefit of Goonswarm, and other SA Goon guilds that might follow in its footsteps one day. To come clear with what really went on during the artificially manufactured scandal is in my opinion necessary for the health of Goonswarm because with knowledge that they have been lied to perhaps goons can grow past the bad decisions of the past and look back upon their blindly supportive behavior of a power-mad tyrant with as much shame as a goon can feel (admittedly, not much). While I am not a part of it any more, I do wish the best for Goonswarm, and part of that is returning to its roots – this is not possible while lies are still the order of the day. The kind of behavior exhibited by The Mittani is simply not acceptable.

   I am certain that this letter will find its way to the general EVE public. If you are not a goon, I would remind you that they like most people are easily misled and unfortunately it takes something as brutally honest as this letter to make them think for long enough to realize the truth. A very, very small fraction (on the order of 1/1000) knew the extent of Goonswarm's corruption. I ask you not to take action against the innocent majority immediately, as I wish to avoid harm to Goonswarm itself as a result of this information. In the past it has been stated that Goonswarm is a cancer upon EVE, and in many respects goons have been a bad thing for the game's political landscape. Regardless of whether one likes goons or not, however, they are in a sorry state right now compared to their origins and have been for the past several months. The T1 frigate Goonfleet struggling in an inhospitable world is gone and what has replaced it is something that nobody should approve of. Clearly, there must be some accountability for what has happened, and I accept my own punishment and whatever else may come knowing that I did what I did for a good reason. Now, Goonswarm must go through the same process to come to terms with the actions of its leaders, and I again ask that you give them the chance to instead of jumping on a bandwagon against a mostly-innocent group of players. It will be hard for most goons to admit that they have been wrong this entire time, but necessary if they are ever to return to their roots. I doubt that the current Goonswarm leadership will be able to do this, but it is necessary to give them the time to try. While they will probably insist on refusing to accept and then apologize for what their predecessors (or they themselves, as members of the current administration were involved with this) did, perhaps the average goon will force them to provide an explanation. Perhaps nothing will change, and at that point, purging Goonswarm would be perfectly justified – but until such time as no change has occurred despite ample chance for such being provided I ask that this release of information be seen as a warning of what power in the wrong hands can do to an organization, rather than being taken as a statement of what Goonswarm is doing currently or a call to arms against them.

   It's been one hell of a first year in EVE and I've done a lot of things, good and bad, for both the game and my alliance. As soon as the fallout from this letter settles, though, it's over – and I hope with it comes the end of the era of scandals. EVE deserves better than that, CCP does too, and so does Goonswarm win or lose the war vs. BoB. The outcome doesn't even matter – what does is that all parties involved have fun doing it. I just hope everyone else can remember back to when you could have fun without looking for a way to break the rules of the game to do it. Enough out of me, though – my story's over. Now, it's up to you, the reader, to make something out of it.
   
Eronarn Palazzo
or   
Fagonarn Roleplayazzo
or   
“P.E.”
or    
[EA]Hoorj



Questions? Comments? Suggestions?

AIM: Eronarn         
MSN: eronarn@hotmail.com   
Email: eronarn@gmail.com   

[Trippy]

Can somebody summarize what the above means?

[Arthur_Parker]

A player who was in a CCP organisation to organise RP events and similar who had access to CCP information was a goonspy.  He doesn't like the old goonswarm CEO Mittani and this is an attack on his character.  The point I think he misses is that by feeding confidential CCP information to goonswarm, he is part of the problem and just reinforces the belief that CCP organisations are riddled with players with an agenda.

[Simond]

Can somebody summarize what the above means?

Pretty much everything Goonswarm said about the recent ISD scandal was true, and idiot_ISD_member thinks that his belated mudslinging is going to help CCP instead of, say, reopening old wounds and rubbing salt in them. BoB/MC are already in full-on "This doesn't mean anything" mode about this new log, btw, in case you were wondering.

Also: Mittens had ISD people 'working' for him in much the same way as BoB does. If you can't beat them, join 'em. :D

[5150]

Can somebody summarize what the above means?

Goon = bad guys who were out to destroy Eve & CCP's credibility

[Yoru]

My reading of it goes like this.

* Mittani saw CCP as another entity to infiltrate/use for his agenda.
* Mittani enjoyed giving CCP a hard time, publicly, and his scandal releases were likely carefully worded to be misleading if not outright false, in order to use Internet Nerd Fury to achieve his own ends.
* Precisely what those ends are isn't clear in the chatlogs; it may be just to wank over how much "power" he has, may be to harm CCP.
* ISD volunteer decides to "come clean" and hope this will help the game, basically confesses that ISD is riddled with spies and independently confirms a portion of the Memorial Day scandal (i.e. some CCP dev popped into ISD chat and yelled at people)
* Not much else?

There's a lot of chest-puffing bullshit going on in the non-log portions where he claims that he's exposing some deep secret agenda and you need to trust him.

What it does illustrate successfully is two things:
* Mittani was a giant douche who uses dev-side spies and informers just like he accuses BoB of doing.
* ISD probably is compromised top to bottom.

[Morat20]

* ISD probably is compromised top to bottom.

I thought everyone more or less knew that PRIOR to any of this. I mean, did everyone honestly think all the ISD folks were totally 100% independent folks with no ties to anyone, ever?

ISD should have been reworked as soon as EVE start pushing 50k. A lot of ISD stuff needs to be done by paid staff, not volunteers. Back when EVE was a shoestring operation, ISD made sense. Now? Rework it into Newb Helpers alone.

[Simond]

CCP had credibility?

If the new logs are true: The accusations about BoB getting a ISD rep dismissed via contacts inside CCP are true, as is the fact that ISD & CCP are riddled with people jockeying for any in-game advantage; and the only new part is that Mittani spun it to his optimum advantage. If CCP tries to use it as proof about how Mittani wanted to destroy EVE, then they'll have people asking why CCP claimed that the MSN thing didn't matter for BoB, but it's of game-breaking importance now.

If the new logs are false (which is a distinct possibility - the person who posted them made a thread on SGBS a while back stating that he was actually a BoB spy since the beginning, and also got banned from SA for fakeposting on a totally unrelated topic): CCP gets to have a fun weekend censoring ahead of them and they can't blame Goonswarm this time as this makes our former CEO look bad as well as CCP (and BoB, etc)...and it's all a gigantic troll.

Win-win, really. :D

[tazelbain]

LOL, I hope Mittani can get a goon to move to Iceland and get a job at CCP.  The drama would be hysterical when it was discovered.

[Arthur_Parker]

* Mittani enjoyed giving CCP a hard time, publicly, and his scandal releases were likely carefully worded to be misleading if not outright false, in order to use Internet Nerd Fury to achieve his own ends.

The only scandal to come direct from goonswarm was the dev joining darkstar1, that was a fuck up because they said a petition was deleted when it looks like it wasn't.  Mittani made no secret of hating CCP but I don't have any reason to believe the ISD and MSN scandals were outright false, the source was K using the ISD reporter's own words, he responded on /. and people knew him.  Msn was confirmed by BoB and this log confirms the ISD thing so I'll agree he got all the goons up in arms for his own reasons but I think it's stretching it to say he made anything up.

[Arthur_Parker]

If the new logs are false (which is a distinct possibility - the person who posted them made a thread on SGBS a while back stating that he was actually a BoB spy since the beginning, and also got banned from SA for fakeposting on a totally unrelated topic): CCP gets to have a fun weekend censoring ahead of them and they can't blame Goonswarm this time as this makes our former CEO look bad as well as CCP (and BoB, etc)...and it's all a gigantic troll.

Win-win, really. :D

Yeah you never know with Mittani, he might have organised an attack on himself just to prove ISD is totally corrupt.  I think it's unlikely as it only takes Eronarn to appear and say it's crap to undo it all.

Edit or I guess CCP could state Eronarn wasn't in ISD.  It's a bit wordy for a troll though.

[Miasma]

This Mittani guy sounds like he'd be a great corporate or divorce lawyer, what area is he going into?

[Simond]

Yeah you never know with Mittani, he might have organised an attack on himself just to prove ISD is totally corrupt.  I think it's unlikely as it only takes Eronarn to appear and say it's crap to undo it all.

Edit or I guess CCP could state Eronarn wasn't in ISD.  It's a bit wordy for a troll though.

You're assuming that Eronarn isn't just an alt of the Mittani, of course. 

[Engels]

He smells of Broughden.

[Arthur_Parker]

You're assuming that Eronarn isn't just an alt of the Mittani, of course. 

After playing eve I assume everyone is an alt of the Mittani.   Eronarn either was in ISD or he wasn't, it should be easy enough to check.

[Sparky]

Pretty much everything Goonswarm said about the recent ISD scandal was true

(4:34:23 PM) [Goon]: the directorate knows that there's no scandal right
(4:34:31 PM) [Goon Director]: yeah
(4:34:33 PM) [Goon]: k
(4:34:45 PM) [Goon Director]: mittani is right though, it's a good rumor

More like threadnaught shit was known to be bullshit or at least on shaky foundations but Mittani who doesn't play Eve anyway and had little to lose whipped up the goons into a frenzy to fuel his metagame fantasy about bankrupting CCP.

Also:

[09:49] marauder841@yahoo.com: How much contact are you having with the devs club lately?
[09:49] marauder841@yahoo.com: Also, how many of them are usefully homosexual, to be completely venal and blunt?

tl;dr Goons leadership wanted to cheat like BoB, failed badly then got all indignant about it.

I say this as a goon.

[Simond]

[10:46] Eronarn: haha holy shit
[10:46] Eronarn: i was in irc when that happened
[10:46] Eronarn: a CCP guy came into IRC and yelled at him
[10:47] Eronarn: in like a minute
[10:47] marauder841@yahoo.com: Do you have logs?
[10:48] Eronarn: nah i don't log IRC, CCP guy's name was Admiral_Chamrajnar or something
[10:48] marauder841@yahoo.com: I'm sure those would be most fascinating
[10:48] marauder841@yahoo.com: Are you serious?
[10:48] marauder841@yahoo.com: THAT faggot?
[10:48] Eronarn: he's the one that announced the titan victory, right
[10:48] Eronarn: i recognized his name from somewhere, anyways
[10:49] marauder841@yahoo.com: Yeah, both titan victory local circlejerks
[10:49] Eronarn: yeah, well he came into Aurora IRC SUPER FAST after it happened
[10:49] Eronarn: and yelled at raekhan
[10:50] Eronarn: then told him to PM him then a bit later raekhan logged off
[10:50] Eronarn: and i never saw him again :iiam:
[10:50] marauder841@yahoo.com: I want those logs.

That, to me, says that BoB did have Admiral Cham-whatsit on MSN, and that they did use him to get the ISD bloke dismissed in double-quick time.

So that part of the Open Letter allegations were true, at least (assuming the log is real, yadda yadda).

Of course, that's also why CCP shouldn't use this to beat us over the head - if the logs are true, that means BoB got an ISD volunteer fired, and CCP lied about it to cover it up. :)

[Megrim]

You could be correct. This does not however take away from the 'Goons' appearing as bad, if not worse, due to this latest leak. Oh i do so love the handwringing.

[Arthur_Parker]

[09:49] marauder841@yahoo.com: How much contact are you having with the devs club lately?
[09:49] marauder841@yahoo.com: Also, how many of them are usefully homosexual, to be completely venal and blunt?

tl;dr Goons leadership wanted to cheat like BoB, failed badly then got all indignant about it.

I say this as a goon.

Goons leadership wanted to use their openly homosexual spy to use sexual favours to cheat like BoB, failed badly then got all indignant about it.

Fixed.

I say this as a goon.

[Reg]

They seriously need to nuke the whole volunteer program at this point.

[Megrim]

Orbit, takeoff, etc...

Seriously though, whoever suggested a server hard-reset earlier in this thread had it right. At this point it's probably the only thing which will clean this mess up.

[Simond]

You could be correct. This does not however take away from the 'Goons' appearing as bad, if not worse, due to this latest leak. Oh i do so love the handwringing.

The Mittani no longer plays EVE, or has anything to do with Goonfleet.

And if you believe that, I have some prime asteroid mining rights in Jita to sell you.

[Megrim]

You could be correct. This does not however take away from the 'Goons' appearing as bad, if not worse, due to this latest leak. Oh i do so love the handwringing.

The Mittani no longer plays EVE, or has anything to do with Goonfleet.

And if you believe that, I have some prime asteroid mining rights in Jita to sell you.

Well now that you mention that, i am playing EvE again and spend most(all) of my time mining. The intricacies involved in the fight between two groups of etards competing to see who can reach the no.1 loser prize before the competition snakes it away does not particularly concern me.

Having said that though, i must admit this constant seesawing has left me totering on the edge of my seat, my moral compass spinning wildly like a dog on a kitchen floor paved with slippery marble, able to smell Skooby Snacks somewhere but unable to move in any coherent fashion in a direction which would deliver the desired goal of the aforementioned doggy treat.








So, how much for the 'roids?

[Shavnir]

So, how much for the 'roids?

Free, just hope you enjoy standing up a lot.

Was Mittani the one that got banned from SA for threatening to sue over the "I am a professional voice actor!" thing?  Even the WoW goons look down on the Eve goons.

Although the drama it starts is a huge margin more interesting than the game itself.

[Montague]

Goons leadership wanted to use their openly homosexual spy to use sexual favours to cheat like BoB, failed badly then got all indignant about it.

Fixed.

I say this as a goon.

 

A+ thread, would read again!