Apple announces Apple TV and iPhone

[schild]

I find it easier to just ignore Apple altogether. Even looking back to a time when I was a hardcore Mac user, it was just elitism. Apple has never done a goddamn thing for me that couldn't be done either more efficiently or cheaper somewhere else. They are a company that Creates Luxury. Nothing more. And not even luxury that I'd rather have over something else. Just luxury for morons. Actually, I take that back, I like their dock more than the Windows dock. So I installed the rklauncher or whatever it's called (bundled with the FlyaKite shell for Windows). And for the past N years, since the iMac, every product has been missing CORE functionality that I find fucking necessary. iMac? Couldn't expand shit. Though, I suppose that goes for all their computers, but specificallyt hat godforsaken half-egg iMac (and the Cube). iPod? Tons of shit comes to mind that I'd thought they'd get in by now. Like wireless transfer of music. There's a reason I replaced my 10GB 1st Gen iPod with a $19.99 Nexus25 from woot. iPhone? Keyboard. Closed OS. Tiny Hard Drive. Man, what a piece of shit.

This isn't to say Microsoft doesn't have it's faults. It's just that Apple's faults are so fucking glaring. They're so hung up on making things simple enough for Grandma that they forget shit that seems completely basic to me. Bleh.

Edit: Didn't mean to press submit the first time.

[stray]

If the FreeNix world got off their asses and had a unified GUI, a single audio subsystem that isn't a complete embarassment, as well as the ability to just work out of the box and have good driver support, then I'd prefer that. But no, I've been dabbling with Linux since some of the earliest Slackware releases, and they've yet to deliver on ANY of those things in almost 15 years. Apple delivered a true user friendly, audio workstation class UNIX in five.

You might not care about those things, but if there was a checklist for every feature I'd want a platform to have, the Mac OS would meet all my requirements (and then some). It has nothing to do with elitism. If my requirements be a turnkey point of sale system, then I'd buy a cash register. That wouldn't be elitism either. Same goes with PC games and Windows (but that is soon a dying need for me...though that can be done on Macs too).

[Big Gulp]

though that can be done on Macs too

Correction.  That can be done on a Mac through Windows.

[stray]

Umm...Yeah?

The post was about user friendly UNIX for audio work. The bit about games was a closing comment (done in JEST), not even worth quoting. Look for your Windows vs Mac war elsewhere.

[Trippy]

Apple delivered a true user friendly, audio workstation class UNIX in five.

Actually Steve Jobs, or more accurately Avie Tevanian and team did it twice. The first time at NeXT (with its dedicated DSP chip for audio processing) and the second time at Apple, though NeXT, with its Mach kernel, came before Linux by a number of years.

[stray]

I know about Next (but for the sake of brevity, I excluded their history), but Core Audio is a different beast (by virtue of Apple's purchase of Logic). Besides that, OpenStep was not as user friendly as OS X (you could say that was just the passage of time between the two though). Other than OS X's first iteration (Rhapsody), old school Mac UI principles fleshed out the Next design.

[Krakrok]

Yes. I can kind of sort of understand them not wanting random people writing their own phone apps but no 3rd party Internet apps make me a

It's Apple being Apple. The Sidekick has the same closed controlled system and suffice to say the app selection is crap. Windows Mobile has what appears to be an 'open' system and the cell phone networks aren't crashing.

[naum]

Jakob Nielsen, useability guru, gives iPhone a thumbs up

Apple's new tablet phone finally does what I said in 2000 to "Kill the Telephone Keypad." It only took 7 years for somebody to try, but the other phone vendors can't say that they weren't warned.

Personally, not for me. So sad that nearly 10 years after Palm PDA that I can't buy something Franklin Planner sized (5" by 8") that would act as (a) phone, (b) portable note pad, for taking notes and/or jotting down whatever fleeting thoughts come into my head, (c) knowledge base conduit via mobile/WIFI sync up with home/work machine, (d) terminal in a pinch, (e) email/web browser amd (f) music/video device with finally (g) open platform so anyone could write apps for it...

I would pay $500-600 for something like that without second thought...

[bhodi]

Cisco lost rights to iPhone trademark last year, experts say

[Miasma]

First you have to buy a $500-600 phone, then they want you to pay $60 a month at a minimum for service...

I sincerely hope this is a huge flop.

[Surlyboi]

 

[Murgos]

I'll wait for the iPhone with the 60 or 80 gig HD.  If I'm going to have an all-in-one then I want it to really be an all-in-one and 8 gigs just wont cut it.

[Miasma]

Yeah that's another thing, you just know they are already working on a version 2 that will be much better.  I was reading another article and it drew the parallel between "never buy the first new model year of a car" and "never buy first generation Apple hardware".

I also forgot to mention that the $60 plan isn't even the next gen fast G3 network, that's not available on any plan.  These phones are all on the old, slow network.

[Chimpy]

Isn't 60 bucks a month pretty much the bottom end of smartphone pricing from AT&T Cingular AT&T anyway?

[Baldrake]

The $59.99 monthly plan includes 450 minutes of voice time; a $79.99 plan includes 900 minutes; and a $99.99 plan includes 1,350 minutes. All three offer 200 text messages, unlimited data services, minutes that roll over month-to-month and mobile-to-mobile calls.

Note the "unlimited data services". This is a very reasonable price.

Perhaps you aren't interested in a data plan? Then you need to rethink why you wanted an iPhone in the first place.

[Surlyboi]

Yeah that's another thing, you just know they are already working on a version 2 that will be much better.  I was reading another article and it drew the parallel between "never buy the first new model year of a car" and "never buy first generation Apple hardware".

I also forgot to mention that the $60 plan isn't even the next gen fast G3 network, that's not available on any plan.  These phones are all on the old, slow network.

Ok, now, do a search on 3G network coverage in the US.

Go on, we can wait...

[NiX]

Perhaps you aren't interested in a data plan? Then you need to rethink why you wanted an iPhone in the first place.

Um, what? It has some nice features and it looks nice all around. But, I never need to use the internet on my phone. I can either use my laptop or 1 text message later and I've found out the information I need to know. It just doesn't seem logical ESPECIALLY considering it's not on the 3G/EDGE network. Which I know isn't that big a deal, but it has a full on web browser. On a GSM network that's going to be a bitch to use.

[Murgos]

Perhaps you aren't interested in a data plan? Then you need to rethink why you wanted an iPhone in the first place.

If you have unlimited data why do you need 450 minutes of 'voice' (like there is actually a difference, puh-lease)?  With unlimited data why can't I just VoiP?

[Sky]

Would be cooler with GPS. Even so, most places we hike (Adirondack Park) would get no connection. Pile on the monthly fee and my interest just slunk out of the room.

[vex]

These seem to be the standard plans from Cingular so I'm not sure why this news is traveling around like it's some kind of revelation.  The current plan for my Smartphone with them is $59.99 for 900 minutes + $19.99 for unlimited data and 200 text messages.

That data plan pricing applies whether you use Edge, 3G or whatever.

[Murgos]

Why the hell do we let them get away with unlimited data but you have to pay extra for text and voice?  The cell phone is just packetizing everything anyway.  I can't see how a text message packet looks any different than a voice packet looks any different than a data packet.

Someone who knows more about cell phones feel free to chime in, is everything on different networks or something?  You have to have 100ms or so end to end latency for a good voice conversation, do voice packets get priority routed?  Why does text messaging cost anything at all?

[MrHat]

Why the hell do we let them get away with unlimited data but you have to pay extra for text and voice?  The cell phone is just packetizing everything anyway.  I can't see how a text message packet looks any different than a voice packet looks any different than a data packet.

Someone who knows more about cell phones feel free to chime in, is everything on different networks or something?  You have to have 100ms or so end to end latency for a good voice conversation, do voice packets get priority routed?  Why does text messaging cost anything at all?

$$$

They make mad money on people going over their text and voice limits.  MAD MONEY.

[Baldrake]

Perhaps you aren't interested in a data plan? Then you need to rethink why you wanted an iPhone in the first place.

Um, what? It has some nice features and it looks nice all around. But, I never need to use the internet on my phone. I can either use my laptop or 1 text message later and I've found out the information I need to know. It just doesn't seem logical ESPECIALLY considering it's not on the 3G/EDGE network. Which I know isn't that big a deal, but it has a full on web browser. On a GSM network that's going to be a bitch to use.

If you don't have a data plan, then all you have is an iPod and a cell phone that fit in the same box. And a rather heftily-sized box at that.

The data connection gives you music downloads, email and web without needing to lug your laptop around and look for a network to connect it to. Maybe you don't need or want that. If so, I argue you're better off with an iPod nano and whatever free phone your cell provider offers.

[Righ]

If you have unlimited data why do you need 450 minutes of 'voice' (like there is actually a difference, puh-lease)?  With unlimited data why can't I just VoiP?

Because you can't install VoIP. The phone is only available from one service provider, and its feature locked. The iPhone may be of interest in two years time when other providers are offered it, and when there are better models with the features that are sorely missing from such an expensive handset. However, by that point the competition for sexy will have heated up and some of the other GSM phone manufacturers will have similar stuff. Its good that Apple have finally woken up the phone market (which has been stuck in a rut for a decade) but I don't think I want their phone. Please sell the software to Ericsson. :P

[MrHat]

If you have unlimited data why do you need 450 minutes of 'voice' (like there is actually a difference, puh-lease)?  With unlimited data why can't I just VoiP?

Because you can't install VoIP. The phone is only available from one service provider, and its feature locked. The iPhone may be of interest in two years time when other providers are offered it, and when there are better models with the features that are sorely missing from such an expensive handset. However, by that point the competition for sexy will have heated up and some of the other GSM phone manufacturers will have similar stuff. Its good that Apple have finally woken up the phone market (which has been stuck in a rut for a decade) but I don't think I want their phone. Please sell the software to Ericsson. :P

I thought there was an SDK or some shit where people could write programs for the iPhone.

[naum]

Commercials make it look really sweet… …I don't have any use for it though, it's just an overpriced toy… …and the pricing plans are way too high (considering cost of phone added in)…  …perhaps if I had $600 I wanted to light on fire… …not having VOIP not as big a deal (well, if the price was set right), but things I don't see mentioned (they might be present?…)

* IM clients?
* Apple drew developer dissent at recent WWDC by sneakily advancing how web applications serve as "SDK"… …still, not a showstopper, but would like to function like PDA (take notes, then upload to Mac later…)…
* No GPS, come on, it's 2007, would really be worth it just to have dynamic maps + stuff in the phone…

People lining up to plunk down and purchase, but they lined up for the Newton too…

[Furiously]

The Newton was great - it still is the best PDA out there.

[Chimpy]

I think the initial iPhone is targetted at a special type of consumer. One that wants to carry one device that works as their iPod and a phone to make/send calls and text messages plus has iTunes access from the phone.

There are a hundred differnt "niches" in the mobile device market some more lucrative than others. Thus why there are basic phones, ones with cameras, ones with video cameras, ones with mp3 players, treos and blackberrys, and ones that have everything ever invented since they started -preslicing bread. Personally, I have no use for an iPhone as I don't want anything but a functional rugged phone that stores all my numbers, makes/recieves calls and tells me the time.

The biggest problem with the people complaining about features (not necessarily here, but in the media) is that they really do not understand the psychology and history of Apple's product release schedule since Steve Jobs came back to run the place. The first generation is always geared towards the "early adopters" who have the income to drop on something new and underwhelming overall and will just replace it when a better model comes out. I know people who bought the original bondi blue iMac, the first of the graphite special edition iMacs, the first E.T. iMac, and probably one of the first flat profile iMacs. There really are not any other companies that have that kind of personality cultish loyalty by people with means these days. People are not buying these just as functional objects, they are buying them as a personal statement. Even I don't get it, and I have spent a lot of money on Apple machines over the years.

The Newton was great - it still is the best PDA out there.

The Newton was hurt by the fact that it was waaaaaaay before it's time, and it came out during an era of horrible management at Apple.

[Bunk]

One of the products my company sells is for Handhelds to synch with the online Realtor's database program we sell. It's crazy the number of Realtors that are phoning up and asking if it will work on the iPhone. My basic response is that I don't even have a clue as to what kind of OS the iPhone is going to use, so in short - no.

There are going to be a lot of anoyed realtors when they realize that the iPhone is not going to instantly replace the functionality of thier Treo or Blackberry.

[Fabricated]

I just want this thing to come out so I can stop hearing about it.

Steve Jobs could take a shit in an off-white case and retards would buy it and claim it the best thing ever and how it was going to revolutionize the world of shit in a box. Then Apple would release a version with less features for the same price and sell twice as many.

[schild]

One of the products my company sells is for Handhelds to synch with the online Realtor's database program we sell. It's crazy the number of Realtors that are phoning up and asking if it will work on the iPhone. My basic response is that I don't even have a clue as to what kind of OS the iPhone is going to use, so in short - no.

There are going to be a lot of anoyed realtors when they realize that the iPhone is not going to instantly replace the functionality of thier Treo or Blackberry.

Lol. Realtors with an iPhone. I can't wait for them to start calling into GoDaddy. Seriously, realtors are some of the most gullible, innocent bunch of morons I've ever dealt with. They all want magic search engine optimization to just happen, they think a domain name is going to change their world, and they're always upset at renewal time when it didn't do shit. I don't know if I'll be able to talk to them about their goddamn overpriced MP3 phone without laughing at them. I already have enough trouble as it is "bestatlantahomesbythecoastwithmagicroofs.com." DIE.

[Trippy]

The Newton was great - it still is the best PDA out there.

You rally thing so?

yOv rfaily tninf sO?

Edit: actually that's not what the Newton did cause it used a dictionary to help it guess the words. Oh well I ruined my own joke.

Edit: better late than never

[Trippy]

I want a pocketable Web browser badly. I can't even count the number of times I wished I had something I could use to look up stuff while unplugged from my computer. The 320 x 240ish Windows Mobile devices have too little screen real estate -- I need some at least around 640 x 480. $599 is a pretty reasonable price compared to trying to import an Asia mobile device with such a screen. The lack of 3G doesn't bother me since I'm already used to surfing on a crappy DSL line.

[bhodi]

[Chimpy]

That picture is innacurate bhodi.

He is wearing a non-black, non-turtleneck top.