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Author Topic: Apple announces Apple TV and iPhone  (Read 157417 times)
stray
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has an iMac.


Reply #70 on: January 10, 2007, 06:09:01 AM

Add those "extras" up that come with Apple TV, and that's almost double the price...

You don't need the remote with the XBox's Media Center, the controller works just fine with it.

Add a DVD drive to Apple TV...  Oh wait, you can't.

Add gaming to Apple TV...  Oh wait, you can't.

Add the free On Demand set up they'll be rolling out shortly in conjunction with cable companies...  Oh wait, you can't.

Christ, I hate Appletards.

The thing is, they're trying to rid of the need for disc media. That's why no DVD drive.

Personally, I don't disagree with you (more options are great), but it's an intentional strategy of IPTV.

Hell, even Microsoft is trying to downplay Hi Def movie discs now at the CES show when asked about the Blu-Ray battle, acting indifferent to it, and jumping in on the IPTV game themselves. As if that was their big plan all along.
naum
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Reply #71 on: January 10, 2007, 06:09:44 AM

Quote
Worthless phone. Sorry. With exclusivity with Cingular, the only result of this would be I buy a blackberry or sidekick if I was going to switch carriers. People can yammer about this thing as much as they want about its beauty, its design, whatever. But this motherfucker is not utilitarian in the least bit.

Some folks were bashing the phone because it isn't a flip phone, and the business about unintended dialing from your pocket (which happens with my Nokia quite a bit…) but they didn't read through the product details -- iPhone has a number of detectors to figure out its context. It has a light sensor which would help it figure out whether it’s in your pocket or not. It also has a proximity detector. And it has an accelerometer. Wouldn’t the simpler, better user interface be for it to sense when it’s next to your ear in the right orientation, and then it just answers the phone?

Truly, it is sad that we live in a world where a toilet knows whether or not you’re standing in front of it, but a computer does not.

From my perspective, the big questions for me is what exactly does it mean that the phone is OS X and is the platform open?

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
naum
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Reply #72 on: January 10, 2007, 06:14:34 AM

You don't need the remote with the XBox's Media Center, the controller works just fine with it.

Use a game controller for what all I need is a menu interface into iTunes library?  No thank, and it shows how many just don't get it.

Quote
Add a DVD drive to Apple TV...  Oh wait, you can't.

Why do I need this when I am streaming everything from computer in next room and/or device has HD?

Quote
Add gaming to Apple TV...  Oh wait, you can't.

Don't care, and the XBOX 360 game offerings look pretty lame to me, at least for now, and in some ways looks like a step down from regular XBOX which I wasn't all too enthralled with either. Graphics not everything… …note the success of the Wii…

Quote
Add the free On Demand set up they'll be rolling out shortly in conjunction with cable companies...  Oh wait, you can't.

Actually, it's predicted that there will be a auto Netflix deal soon…

You know not what you speak of… …may not be your cup of tea but that doesn't make it stupid…

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
Trippy
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Posts: 23657


Reply #73 on: January 10, 2007, 06:20:00 AM

Some folks were bashing the phone because it isn't a flip phone, and the business about unintended dialing from your pocket (which happens with my Nokia quite a bit…) but they didn't read through the product details -- iPhone has a number of detectors to figure out its context. It has a light sensor which would help it figure out whether it’s in your pocket or not.
The phone gets "locked" when it's not in use and you have to have make a horizontal swipe with your finger across the screen (oriented vertically so it's the shorter distance) to unlock it. That's how they handle the unintended dialing in the pocket problem.
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #74 on: January 10, 2007, 06:56:20 AM

You know, I was going to post something meaningful here until I got through page 2. What the fuck is wrong with you pigfuckers?
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #75 on: January 10, 2007, 07:10:20 AM

Teh haet is strong with them Sky.

And no, it's not my job to boost the company. There are better qualified people to do that than me, but jeez, "Appletards?"

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Viin
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Reply #76 on: January 10, 2007, 08:37:03 AM

Video of the iPhone in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhD9mI8j8U

- Viin
bhodi
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No lie.


Reply #77 on: January 10, 2007, 08:51:36 AM

After further review, I've decided the iTV is going to suck. It'll only play in two formats, no divx viewing for you. Basically if it's not quicktime, it won't play. Think what the 360 is doing.
eldaec
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Reply #78 on: January 10, 2007, 09:38:47 AM

I should add, that while none of these products impress me, that doesn't necessarily mean they won't sell.

Apple are geniuses at selling to the 'People who will buy any damn thing' demographic. And good luck to them.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Krakrok
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Reply #79 on: January 10, 2007, 10:34:39 AM


First off I wouldn't pay $500 for it. I might pay $100 for it if Amazon had a $400 rebate.

The only thing I care about on it is the web browser and being able to run my own applications. It's hard to tell how usable the browser they are showing with it is. I care about the content of the site not what it looks like when I'm browsing on my Sidekick2. The iPhone browser seems to be showing the whole page and then allowing you to zoom in which looks nice but seems like a waste of time. Seems like a better method than mobile IE on the MDA but I can't tell if it's better than the Sidekick2 reformating to screensize. It would be pretty awesome if it supported normal Flash and not just Flash lite. That would give you all the web games on your phone for free plus flash video.

I don't see anything listed on what processor it's using. Will it be able to run REALbasic applications? That might be nice if it did. 320x240 @ 160dpi is pretty nice. Better than the Sidekick2. About the same as the MDA.

The screen appears to have multiple touch so you can double thumb type on the screen keyboard. Those keys look pretty small though. Not as easy to use as a Sidekick or MDA keyboard I wouldn't think.
Daeven
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Reply #80 on: January 10, 2007, 02:35:58 PM

Everybody that rips on the iPhone should just watch the Keynote presentation.

Basically the iPhone, as far as usability and features is concerned wipes the floor with any Smartphone offering out there while being the same price as a treo or Windows Mobile 5 device.

Bingo. I'm looking to replace my Treo 650. If the iPhone isn't wonky as hell it'll be at the top of my list of candidates.

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
Tale
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sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ


Reply #81 on: January 10, 2007, 03:05:27 PM

Re the other iPhone:

Quote
Apple chose the name iPhone even though Cisco Systems, the network and consumer wireless company, has recently introduced a Wi-Fi-based phone with the same name. Mr. Jobs had been negotiating with Cisco executives over the trademark in recent days.
Abagadro
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Reply #82 on: January 10, 2007, 04:02:49 PM


"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Trippy
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Reply #83 on: January 10, 2007, 04:40:00 PM

I don't see anything listed on what processor it's using. Will it be able to run REALbasic applications? That might be nice if it did. 320x240 @ 160dpi is pretty nice. Better than the Sidekick2. About the same as the MDA.
320 x 480 not 320 x 240.
Fabricated
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Reply #84 on: January 10, 2007, 05:57:20 PM

Ahahahah, fucking good. Take that name away Cisco. Don't puss out for some stock offers or anything. Cisco is a way more important, relevant company than Apple, they don't need Apple's money or favors.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Trippy
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Reply #85 on: January 10, 2007, 06:03:55 PM

From my perspective, the big questions for me is what exactly does it mean that the phone is OS X and is the platform open?
At least one random blogger is saying that it's a closed system but Steve Jobs made no mention of that one way or the other during the keynote so I don't know where he's getting that information from.
Big Gulp
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Reply #86 on: January 10, 2007, 06:40:19 PM

Ahahahah, fucking good. Take that name away Cisco. Don't puss out for some stock offers or anything. Cisco is a way more important, relevant company than Apple, they don't need Apple's money or favors.

What's amusing is that I just got this Skype phone last week because I'm a cheap bastard and wanted a quasi landline in addition to my cell.  I didn't even realize it, but just 10 minutes ago I pulled off the "Charge batteries for 14 hours before using the phone for the first time" sticker and what do I see underneath?  An iPhone logo.   :-D
Krakrok
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Reply #87 on: January 10, 2007, 07:57:56 PM

320 x 480 not 320 x 240.
Ugh. Dyslexia for the win. That's worse than 720x480/640x480.
Trippy
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Reply #88 on: January 10, 2007, 08:00:03 PM

320 x 480 not 320 x 240.
Ugh. Dyslexia for the win. That's worse than 720x480/640x480.
Yes, but it's (slightly) better than the PSP (480 x 272).
naum
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Reply #89 on: January 10, 2007, 09:58:04 PM

…Cisco is a way more important, relevant company than Apple…

Huh?

/em shakes head in disbelief

Any company can make routers and overcharge for service…


Quote
After further review, I've decided the iTV is going to suck. It'll only play in two formats, no divx viewing for you. Basically if it's not quicktime, it won't play. Think what the 360 is doing.

Don't care, have utilities that convert to H264 or mp4 easily from DVD or other video format… …but yes, more formats is better…

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
Big Gulp
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Reply #90 on: January 11, 2007, 06:37:56 AM

Huh?

/em shakes head in disbelief

Any company can make routers and overcharge for service…

Cisco market value = $174 billion.

Apple market value = $83 billion.

Furthermore, Cisco is integral to how the entire economy works considering that they're the largest provider of networking components in the world.  Apple makes good products, yes, but frankly they just aren't that important in the overall scheme of things.  Society doesn't grind to a halt if every Apple product in the world simultaneously goes kaput.  You can't say the same for Cisco.
naum
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Reply #91 on: January 11, 2007, 06:47:19 AM

Huh?

/em shakes head in disbelief

Any company can make routers and overcharge for service…

Cisco market value = $174 billion.

Apple market value = $83 billion.

Furthermore, Cisco is integral to how the entire economy works considering that they're the largest provider of networking components in the world.  Apple makes good products, yes, but frankly they just aren't that important in the overall scheme of things.  Society doesn't grind to a halt if every Apple product in the world simultaneously goes kaput.  You can't say the same for Cisco.

Which totally ignores the truth that any company can make routers and sell overpriced service. Sorry, society wouldn't grind to a halt. Some other predator would assume their syndicate. Wal-Mart has much higher market value and if it went kaput, society would be just fine.

The world wouldn't fall apart if Apple disappeared also, but society would be denied the output of a whole lot of creative folks… …and for many, computing would become an ugly experience…

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #92 on: January 11, 2007, 07:10:57 AM

I was wondering why they didn't just go with applephone, like appletv. Use the little icon. The iCrap is tired. Though I do get a chuckle out of that book about Jobs: iCon.
Lantyssa
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Reply #93 on: January 11, 2007, 08:08:44 AM

Unfortunately, no company could instantly step in to fill Cisco's role.  They are integrated into everything and everyone.  People know their hardware, not Random Podunk Company's.

Yes, someone could step in to fill their shoes (likely lots of little companies, causing competing standards), but that does not change the fact that Cisco equipment runs everything now.  If they disappeared it would have a sizable effect as people try to position themselves in the hole.  If Apple went away, it would barely be a blip on the radar, and only the enthusiasts would care.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #94 on: January 11, 2007, 11:14:38 AM

More than a blip, I assure you.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Fabricated
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Reply #95 on: January 11, 2007, 01:20:44 PM

Which totally ignores the truth that any company can make routers and sell overpriced service. Sorry, society wouldn't grind to a halt. Some other predator would assume their syndicate. Wal-Mart has much higher market value and if it went kaput, society would be just fine.
Way to not understand anything about the internet or the hardware/software it runs on.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
naum
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Reply #96 on: January 11, 2007, 01:24:48 PM

Which totally ignores the truth that any company can make routers and sell overpriced service. Sorry, society wouldn't grind to a halt. Some other predator would assume their syndicate. Wal-Mart has much higher market value and if it went kaput, society would be just fine.
Way to not understand anything about the internet or the hardware/software it runs on.

Horse puckey.

Internet and computer networks existed long before Cisco rose to prominence.

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
bhodi
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Posts: 6817

No lie.


Reply #97 on: January 11, 2007, 01:28:04 PM

Juniper, Netgear, and Foundry Networks could, can, and do eat cisco's marketshare in various places. There are others, I'm sure. All of those companies offer competing products, often for less than Cisco. Juniper of course scales up to where Cisco can't, and technically it's juniper that routes the internet, not Cisco. Cisco is more of a middle-man, easily replaced if need be. What do they have - CDP, ISL, and EIGRP. CDP is cool, I'll give you that. It's not irreplaceable. ISL has 802.1q which you should be using anyway, and EIGRP I can drop without looking back.

This isn't to say that a lengthy expensive lawsuit between apple and Cisco would bankrupt either of them. There will be a Multi-million dollar settlement from Apple to Cisco, and this issue will quietly disappear. Status Quo.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 01:43:38 PM by bhodi »
Fabricated
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Reply #98 on: January 11, 2007, 01:29:28 PM

Which totally ignores the truth that any company can make routers and sell overpriced service. Sorry, society wouldn't grind to a halt. Some other predator would assume their syndicate. Wal-Mart has much higher market value and if it went kaput, society would be just fine.
Way to not understand anything about the internet or the hardware/software it runs on.

Horse puckey.

Internet and computer networks existed long before Cisco rose to prominence.
And computers existed before Apple. Apple hardware however, isn't used by every ISP on the planet. Cisco is.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
eldaec
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Reply #99 on: January 11, 2007, 01:40:54 PM

It's wider than just ISPs. If you are a large corporation, you use Cisco gear for all the hard stuff.

Some local office might use someone else's kit for some local hub based shit, but the corporate stuff is Cisco just about everywhere.



The financial wake that Cisco would leave would be far greater than what Apple would generate. Far more people would be scratching heads and working out what the fuck to do. The effect on network people probably wouldn't be far off the effect of Y2K. Of course, society didn't grind to a halt then either.

Naturally the media would miss Apple a great deal more.

And Cisco don't generally manage to attract multipage threads on this forum. Not even when they announce a product that actually does something new.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
naum
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Reply #100 on: January 11, 2007, 01:44:54 PM

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/09/some-hands-on-time-with-the-iphone/

Quote

Some Hands-On Time With the iPhone

Today, I had meetings with Steve Jobs and then Phil Schiller, Apple’s director of worldwide marketing. I basically played with the iPhone the entire hour.

Here are some of the things you can’t tell without actually handling and using the iPhone:

* It feels amazing in your hand. Not like an iPod, not like a Treo — but something new. It’s so thin, and the rounded stainless-steel edges are so smooth, you can excuse its larger-than-Treo façade. When you're on a call, it’s so cool how the screen turns off to save power, thanks to its proximity sensor.

* You operate the iPhone with your fingertips. Apart from buttons that appear on the touch screen, the only physical buttons are volume up/down, ringer on/off, sleep/wake and a Home button.

Apple went through numerous iterations of the glass surface, trying to find one that’s not too slick or too rough, or that shows grease and fingerprints too much. You still get finger streaks, but they're relatively subtle and a quick wipe on your sleeve takes care of them.

* During my one test call, the sound quality was loud and clear. Of course, your mileage (and your Cingular signal) will vary.

* Typing is difficult. The letter keys are just pictures on the glass screen, so of course there's no tactile feedback.

Software helps a lot. You can afford to make a lot of typos as you muddle through a word, because the software analyzes which keys you *might* have meant and figures out the word you wanted. Its best guess appears just under what you've typed; if it’s correct, you tap the Space bar to accept it and continue. I typed a couple of e-mail messages with lots of typos but eventually 100 percent accuracy, thanks to this auto-correct feature. (My testing didn’t involve proper names, however.)

Bottom line: Heavy BlackBerry addicts may not want to jump ship just yet.

* The phone won’t be available until June, so some of its software isn’t finished yet. As I tapped my way into obscure corners of the phone, Mr. Jobs (((How about "His Steveness," would that do?))) pointed out a couple of spots where only a placeholder graphic was available.

* Both in the onstage demo and during my hands-on hour, the Web speed was OK—not great, but OK. But all of this used the phone’s built-in Wi-Fi, not Cingular’s notoriously slow Edge network. I couldn’t help wondering how bad the speed will be when you’re connecting over the cellular airwaves. (Here again, though, I was playing with a prototype whose software will undergo a lot of fine-tuning between now and June.)

* I tried out the camera. It was really cool to frame a shot using the HUGE 3.5-inch screen; it’s rare to find that big a screen on any camera. The refresh rate felt typical of a camera-phone to me, but Mr. Jobs said that it would be much smoother by the time the phone is done.

* The Web browsing experience is incredible. You see the entire Web page on the iPhone's screen. You double-tap any spot to zoom in. Or you use the two-fingered spread-apart gesture to "stretch" the image larger, or pinch your thumb and forefinger on the glass to zoom out again. The manipulation is seamless, smoothly animated—and useful. Using Google Maps to get you driving directions and maps, for example, is just light-years simpler and more powerful than on any other machine, thanks to this "rubber Web page" stretching technology.


(((Aw come on, WHO CAN'T LIKE A RUBBER WEB PAGE STRETCHING TECHNOLOGY!? You'd have to be clinically depressed not to like a rubber web page stretching technology.)))


"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
eldaec
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Reply #101 on: January 11, 2007, 02:49:20 PM

The thing that stands out to me from that article, is that the things the author is impressed by are not things I would find remotely attractive.

It's thin - I think Motorola got as thin as anyone needs already - and every bog standard phone passed the threshold of 'thin enough' years ago.

Web browsing - seriously, who gives a shit? Web browsing on a phone? I'm really not interested even if it is rubberised web browsing.

Camera framing - I can already take pictures of drunk people, and I'm hardly planning to use a moblie phone for serious photography.


On the other hand, ability to use the keyboard quickly and efficiently to make calls and send sms/email (even with proper nouns) is *exactly* what I *do* care about.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Krakrok
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Reply #102 on: January 12, 2007, 09:17:42 AM


And no third party apps. Go go closed vendor lock in. Lame.
Trippy
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Reply #103 on: January 12, 2007, 08:58:59 PM

And no third party apps. Go go closed vendor lock in. Lame.
Yes. I can kind of sort of understand them not wanting random people writing their own phone apps but no 3rd party Internet apps make me a Sad Panda

Edit: okay so it's not quite a totally closed system:
Quote
These are devices that need to work, and you can't do that if you load any software on them," [Steve Jobs] said. "That doesn't mean there's not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesn't mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.
but still...
« Last Edit: January 13, 2007, 04:44:34 AM by Trippy »
bhodi
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Posts: 6817

No lie.


Reply #104 on: January 12, 2007, 10:00:52 PM

It makes me a 'I won't buy your phone'.
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