Apple announces Apple TV and iPhone

[Trippy]

He doesn't wear turtlenecks -- they are "mock" turtlenecks.

[Bunk]

Lol. Realtors with an iPhone. I can't wait for them to start calling into GoDaddy. Seriously, realtors are some of the most gullible, innocent bunch of morons I've ever dealt with. They all want magic search engine optimization to just happen, they think a domain name is going to change their world, and they're always upset at renewal time when it didn't do shit. I don't know if I'll be able to talk to them about their goddamn overpriced MP3 phone without laughing at them. I already have enough trouble as it is "bestatlantahomesbythecoastwithmagicroofs.com." DIE.

Yea, we do Realtor Websites as well, so I feel your pain. Had one that wanted something along the lines of gr8realestatebysue.com, because the proper spelling had been taken. I could write a book on the stupidity of Realtors. And yes, they get mad at us for not getting them to the top of Google for our $35 a month subscription rates.

We actually direct most of our customers to GoDaddy for domains.

[Murgos]

Back when I was writing web-sites I had a realtor customer that started off pretty simple but eventually he expected me to create all the functionality of realtor.com for about $3000, with multiple front ends so that people would have choices and variety.  That was a good web development story, he actually had some money and could pay.  Most people that wanted, say, e-bay but better, wanted me to do it out of the kindness of my heart and a cut of some unidentified amount of the profits 'some time in the future and at their discretion'.

Because, you know, they were idea men and I was too dumb to see how awesome this website was going to be.

[Sky]

Seriously, realtors are some of the most gullible, innocent bunch of morons I've ever dealt with.

As someone who's been in the housing market, looking to buy, for YEARS now...yes. They will buy into any trend and think the stupidest shit is a good house feature. I have yet to find one that can understand I want a pre-1960s house with solid foundation, good straight walls and roof, legal wiring and plumbing. That's it. Everything else is relatively easy, I just want a solid shell that I can spend the rest of my life updating. They keep thinking I mean a shitty 1970s ranch.

There's also the problem of me not buying into the whole scam game of 'my house is magically worth 50% over the assessed value!'. Everyone is in on that scam, and it fucks first-time buyers HARD. Then the banks not wanting to give what sellers will settle for...Oops I did my little real estate rant.

Anyway, back to the website stuff. Yeah. I'm professionally a jack-of-all-trades. If it involved a computer (or sometimes anything with a plug), they call me. I made the mistake of mentioning a website redesign and they want all this professional-quality shit like we have the fucking NYC library's resources or something. Shit, I don't even write straight html (though I can hand edit it), I use dreamweaver :P I used CSS for backgrounds and text and now my supervisor thinks I can crank out a full site that can change on a dime like that css zen garden site. And of course, get all my other work done, as well...

[Typhon]

pre-1960s house with solid foundation, good straight walls and roof, legal wiring and plumbing. That's it.

This doesn't sound all that common to me.  Shit happens to houses after 50 years, and wiring codes have not remained static.... heh, "static", I made a funny! er, ah, eheh.

[Merusk]

pre-1960s house with solid foundation, good straight walls and roof, legal wiring and plumbing. That's it.

This doesn't sound all that common to me.  Shit happens to houses after 50 years, and wiring codes have not remained static.... heh, "static", I made a funny! er, ah, eheh.

I think Sky means circuit breakers vs fuses.  That would have required a rewire sometime in the house's history for the stuff he's looking at.

Solid foundation is usually the first killer.  I had one realtor actually show me a house whose foundation was failing to the point the joists at the second floor were poking into the stairwell.  He said he haddn't been in the house before, but I didn't believe the bastard.

You're usually better-off doing the research yourself, Sky.  Sign-up using a spammail on Realtor.com and go to town searching.  You're looking at the same shit as the realtors do, since it's all the MLS listings, you just get it delayed by a day or so. Bad in a seller's market but with sales taking an average of 120 days right now (locally at least), all you're going to miss are the "super buys" which you'd have to move on in a matter of hours anyway.

Always remember Realtors are out for themselves.  Their office only keeps them around so long as they're selling and bringing-in money.  Unless you know one as a personal friend, don't trust 'em.  They'll try and upsell you just to get that extra couple hundred (or thousand) dollars in commision and on their office tally.   They are the used car salesmen of the modern economy.

[Bunk]

One of my favorite Realtor sites, have your speakers turned on: www.hollyporter.com

Merusk is right, do as much of the research yourself that you can. You won't get all of the details from Realtor.com on a listing that the Realtor gets, but its a good start.

I can't remember what city you are in, let me know and I'll see if I can dig up anything interesting.

[naum]

Testing out the iPhone

We have been testing the iPhone for two weeks, in multiple usage scenarios, in cities across the country. Our verdict is that, despite some flaws and feature omissions, the iPhone is, on balance, a beautiful and breakthrough handheld computer. Its software, especially, sets a new bar for the smart-phone industry, and its clever finger-touch interface, which dispenses with a stylus and most buttons, works well, though it sometimes adds steps to common functions.

The Apple phone combines intelligent voice calling, and a full-blown iPod, with a beautiful new interface for music and video playback. It offers the best Web browser we have seen on a smart phone, and robust email software. And it synchronizes easily and well with both Windows and Macintosh computers using Apple's iTunes software.

It has the largest and highest-resolution screen of any smart phone we've seen, and the most internal memory by far. Yet it is one of the thinnest smart phones available and offers impressive battery life, better than its key competitors claim.

…

But the iPhone has a major drawback: the cellphone network it uses. It only works with AT&T (formerly Cingular), won't come in models that use Verizon or Sprint and can't use the digital cards (called SIM cards) that would allow it to run on T-Mobile's network. So, the phone can be a poor choice unless you are in areas where AT&T's coverage is good. It does work overseas, but only via an AT&T roaming plan.

In addition, even when you have great AT&T coverage, the iPhone can't run on AT&T's fastest cellular data network. Instead, it uses a pokey network called EDGE, which is far slower than the fastest networks from Verizon or Sprint that power many other smart phones. And the initial iPhone model cannot be upgraded to use the faster networks.

The iPhone compensates by being one of the few smart phones that can also use Wi-Fi wireless networks. When you have access to Wi-Fi, the iPhone flies on the Web. Not only that, but the iPhone automatically switches from EDGE to known Wi-Fi networks when it finds them, and pops up a list of new Wi-Fi networks it encounters as you move. Walt was able to log onto paid Wi-Fi networks at Starbucks and airports, and even used a free Wi-Fi network at Fenway Park in Boston to email pictures taken during a Red Sox game.

…

Missing features: The iPhone is missing some features common on some competitors. There's no instant messaging, only standard text messaging. While its two-megapixel camera took excellent pictures in our tests, it can't record video. Its otherwise excellent Web browser can't fully utilize some Web sites, because it doesn't yet support Adobe's Flash technology. Although the phone contains a complete iPod, you can't use your songs as ringtones. There aren't any games, nor is there any way to directly access Apple's iTunes Music Store.

[Sky]

I extensively cross-reference MLS sites. You really need a few to get all the info you can. I've only spoken in passing to a couple realtors, they certainly are used car salesmen...but worse. I've actually considered getting licensed myself and pocketing the commission. If you don't list price, address and MLS I don't even bother thinking about your properties, it's a waste of my time.

It's also great talking to a realtor and telling them the comps in the area because I've been searching for SO DAMNED LONG. You want $208k? Really? The house next door went for $150k with a pool and better yard, newer kitchen and roof. Bitch. I really wanted that one, nice tudor style place, low bills.

I barely even use Zillow, which in my area isn't all that reliable anyway.

[Bunk]

Zillow is pure horseshit.

[Sky]

Zillow is pure horseshit.

Speaking of horseshit, I'll continue down my little derail path and say that I'm about to jump banks because I detest my bank's regional mortgage person. She's constantly pushing me away from the one product they offer that nobody else in the area does, toward stuff that's way more profitable for them and fiscally irresponsible for me (though not ARMs, at least). She also rejected one house out of hand because it was $50k over what she thought it was worth based on the vast information at her hands: the square footage and style. Then she backed up her opinion using Zillow "My favorite site!". I pointed out Zillow was usually (very) wrong, especially in our area.

Now, the house was overpriced, but only because it needs some interior finish work (in fact, she wouldn't give me a loan because the upstairs isn't finished). But it's also in the single best block in my entire city, and would be a steal if I could afford to buy it and then finish the renovations to the upstairs. Fucking moronic wench, I'll make sure to mention you when I make the funds transfer to my new bank. And how you're always fifteen minutes late to our half-hour meetings.

Nothing like real-estate to get me ranty these days. This 'industry' is obscene.

[pants]

Testing out the iPhone

We have been testing the iPhone for two weeks and it cures cancer.

Walt Mossberg passing off an Apple puff piece as an actual review?  Say it isn't so!

[Merusk]

Real estate has always been bad, but it's gotten worse over the last 6 years with the housing bubble.  I'm not completely happy with this slow deflation, as it puts my job at jeopardy working for a home builder, but it's needed to clean out some of  the stupid.

Your mortgage dealer sounds like a complete and clueless tool. Big surprise.  Register your complaint, but unless you're a 'big account' I don't think they'll care too much.  bankings been getting even more bloated, corrupt and bullshit-filled than real estate lately.

[naum]

Testing out the iPhone

We have been testing the iPhone for two weeks and it cures cancer.

Walt Mossberg passing off an Apple puff piece as an actual review?  Say it isn't so!

David Pogue at the New York Times Agrees with Mossberg!

The iPhone Matches Most of its Hype

The iPhone is revolutionary; it’s flawed. It’s substance; it’s style. It does things no phone has ever done before; it lacks features found even on the most basic phones.

Unless you’ve been in a sensory-deprivation tank for six months, you already know what the iPhone is: a tiny, gorgeous hand-held computer whose screen is a slab of touch-sensitive glass.

Though Pogue is probably planning to add iPhone: The Missing Manual to his book publishing empire.

Apple like the Big Boys, buying up the journalists, but it probably costs them a lot less than M$… …buying "journalists", that's how it's done, even startups I worked for recently all spent money on plucking writers to publish favorable reviews…

[Jeff Kelly]

OK I get it Journalists are only objective when they critisize a new product, if there is one who actually enjoys what he reviews he must be an industry shill 

[Trippy]

All of those people got units from Apple -- they didn't go out and buy them with their own money. Given what a control freak Steve Jobs is you can be assured that if they wrote a negative review they would be cut off forever from getting advanced previews, invites to special events, etc. from Apple.

[Jeff Kelly]

All of those people got units from Apple -- they didn't go out and buy them with their own money. Given what a control freak Steve Jobs is you can be assured that if they wrote a negative review they would be cut off forever from getting advanced previews, invites to special events, etc. from Apple.

So? 90% of all the reviews work that way, that doesn't mean that evreybody out there is just sucking industry cock...

[Chimpy]

All of those people got units from Apple -- they didn't go out and buy them with their own money. Given what a control freak Steve Jobs is you can be assured that if they wrote a negative review they would be cut off forever from getting advanced previews, invites to special events, etc. from Apple.

I saw an interviews with the WSJ guy on CNBC yesterday about his review. He said in response to a question about the lack of a  keyboard that "after 2 days he wanted to throw it in the garbage, but by day 5 he was typing just as fast as he does on his blackberry or treo" he also was very forthcoming about how he tested it, how it's battery life was better than anything he had used before, and that he had to return it to Apple at the end of the week. And that he was going to buy one for personal use.

Sure, Apple wants good press, no one will deny that. So does everyone. But they did not need these reviews to sell the iPhone. The people who were going to buy one in the next few weeks were going to do so anyway. If this was as horrible a product as the "hate everything steve jobs touches" crowd want everyone to believe it is, then surely Apple would not have released any to pre-release testing.

[schild]

Apple is a cult. Like the first shipment of any console, it will sell out. No question.

But it's a $600 phone.

My cap on phones is $300. And even then, it best give me a blowjob. I think the most I've ever spent on a phone is $200, for my current one. It was too expensive.

[Trippy]

Apple is a cult. Like the first shipment of any console, it will sell out. No question.

But it's a $600 phone.

My cap on phones is $300. And even then, it best give me a blowjob. I think the most I've ever spent on a phone is $200, for my current one. It was too expensive.

$600 for a phone bothers me less than $60 a month for two years -- that's $2040 including the phone, enough to buy a new MacBook Pro or something -- especially since I already have a discounted AT&T plan. If I wake up early enough I'm going to go down to my local AT&T store tomorrow and ask if there's a way to shoehorn iPhone service into my existing plan and what the cost would be.

[schild]

I'm on Sprint's Employee Friends & Family plan. You couldn't pull me off this sucks by subsidizing a phone that can transport me out of the Matrix. It's cheap, it's sexy, and it has unlimited broadband and messaging. It's too bad every phone Sprint offers is dogshit.

[Trippy]

I'm on Sprint's Employee Friends & Family plan. You couldn't pull me off this sucks by subsidizing a phone that can transport me out of the Matrix. It's cheap, it's sexy, and it has unlimited broadband and messaging. It's too bad every phone Sprint offers is dogshit.

I'm on AT&T because

1) It's the only provider that I can get a good signal from where I live
.
.
.
5) It's GSM so I can use the same phone when I travel to more civilized parts of the world

[Tebonas]

Waiting for the technical specs and the provider costs for the Euro version (meaning if it will have UMTS), but for the US version I have to agree. Way too expensive.

[naum]

$600 for a phone bothers me less than $60 a month for two years -- that's $2040 including the phone, enough to buy a new MacBook Pro or something -- especially since I already have a discounted AT&T plan. If I wake up early enough I'm going to go down to my local AT&T store tomorrow and ask if there's a way to shoehorn iPhone service into my existing plan and what the cost would be.

Yes, it costs what a computer costs, and it's missing tasks that a computer should be able to do. But then, it might be just limited to battery capabilities…

It's a disposable device, only so many charges, then it has to be upgraded (in lieu of sending back to Apple to perform "Genius Bar" battery replacement)…

It sounds like the simple act of making a phone call means more than a couple of finger clicks… …that isn't suitable for a mobile device IMV, even my phone, I have to hit a button before dialing and that can be a bit inconvenient at times…

Still, the price plans of various smart phone competitors (Crackberry, Treo) seem outrageous to me too, given the limited qualities of these so called "smart phones"… …tiny keyboards, lesser powered battery power And Treos hardware reliability factor is on par with the present presidential administrations penchant for truth telling.

V2.0/V3.0 might be different… …even as is, if it had GPS and IM and even selection of alternate service providers, it would have been enticing…

[Furiously]

I'm amazed it has the sim card built in and un-removable.

[Trippy]

I'm amazed it has the sim card built in and un-removable.

The SIM card is not built-in and is removable.

Edit: you may have been confused cause the phone is locked. So no T-Mobile SIMs and no SIMs from other countries.

[Baldrake]

I currently have a Treo. Yes, they are expensive. No, they are not replacements for laptops. Their big win is that they fit in your pocket. I have my Treo with me literally everywhere I go. Even though I currently own three desktops (at different locations) and a laptop, there are many times I don't have a computer right with me. I can't imagine going back to not having a SmartPhone.

The big question is whether consumers will be willing to pay for this convenience. I just don't know. But my colleagues in Japan tell me that many people there do not have a fixed phone or a computer at home -- they do everything with their SmartPhone. If you add up the cost of PC+landline+DSL, the cost of a SmartPhone doesn't seem quite so crazy. It will be interesting to see whether that trend takes hold here.

(One caveat - dumb Apple isn't allowing direct connection to iTunes from the iPhone, so you do still need a computer. WTF?? That presumable will change - for this phone model to work, Apple really needs to provide a fast network and hosted storage for your music.)

[Righ]

Shame its OSX core didn't come with a terminal app and SSH. There's this "webshell", but its something else to install on your servers. Putting the 80GB drive from the high end iPod in it or providing a media card slot would have significantly improved the iPhone's desirability. That said, if I didn't have a Blackberry paid for by work, I'd be mighty tempted to get one because of the software. As I suggested earlier, I think that the iPhone will result in a deluge of superior hardware from other manufacturers in the next few months. Its not unreasonable to expect smart phones that have laptop-capacity hard drives, removable media slots, removable batteries, WiFi, quad band GSM, decent megapixel camera, video clip recording, GPS, map software, browser, IM, terminal app and an open SDK. All the components are there in one device or another, its just takes some asshole to put it together and sell it to me. I'll pay a grand for it all provided its unlocked and I can use work's SIM card. Thanks.

[schild]

Let's talk about Smartphones. I've wanted something with a proper keyboard (rather than T9 shit) with MSN/AIM capabilities so I could do Sneaky Sneaky F13 work from my day job. There really seems to be only 2 options for me though: The Moto Q and the new Treo 755p.

I don't know if the Moto Q can do AIM/MSN stuff. And I don't know if Treo's are dog shit. They sure are ugly though.

[Trippy]

Let's talk about Smartphones. I've wanted something with a proper keyboard (rather than T9 shit) with MSN/AIM capabilities so I could do Sneaky Sneaky F13 work from my day job. There really seems to be only 2 options for me though: The Moto Q and the new Treo 755p.

I don't know if the Moto Q can do AIM/MSN stuff. And I don't know if Treo's are dog shit. They sure are ugly though.

Windows Mobile has supported MSN Messenger for quite some time (since version 2002) though some phones might not have it as part of their installed software.

Here's a list of all the Windows Mobile phones with keyboards:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/smartphone/default.mspx?f_qwertyKb=QWERTY

[vex]

I don't know if the Moto Q can do AIM/MSN stuff. And I don't know if Treo's are dog shit. They sure are ugly though.

Most of the guys I work with have Treo's but they seem to be migrating away from them as the Smartphones get more functionality.  WiFi is one nice thing that Treo has that most Smartphones do not.  Personally I think the Treo's are too expensive.

I had a non-QWERTY Smartphone and when it broke I paid the money for a BlackJack.  It has been worth every penny to have that keyboard and 3G.  Opera Mini has really changed web browsing for me on it as well.  I understand the Q is very similar.

V

[Furiously]

I'm amazed it has the sim card built in and un-removable.

The SIM card is not built-in and is removable.

Edit: you may have been confused cause the phone is locked. So no T-Mobile SIMs and no SIMs from other countries.

Ahh - so someone just needs to figure out how to unlock it in 30 days so it works with T-mobile. :)

[OcellotJenkins]

Let's talk about Smartphones. I've wanted something with a proper keyboard (rather than T9 shit) with MSN/AIM capabilities so I could do Sneaky Sneaky F13 work from my day job. There really seems to be only 2 options for me though: The Moto Q and the new Treo 755p.

I don't know if the Moto Q can do AIM/MSN stuff. And I don't know if Treo's are dog shit. They sure are ugly though.

I've had an AIM client on my Palm Treo for years.  Compared to what Verizon charges for voice and unlimited data ($80+), the iPhone pricing plan is looking mighty good.  The only thing keeping me from taking the plunge is the fear of a first gen device, and to a lesser extent the slow network.  But I've been living with the slow network on the Treo and for email/IM it's fast enough I guess.

[Krakrok]

I still prefer the Sidekick. Has AIM and Yahoo. F13 works in the web browser. Supports Javascript. Web pages are reformatted so there is no left right scrolling required. I pay $30 a month for unlimited data and no minutes but they don't have that plan anymore.

Other than the web browser and AIM it's a worthless piece of proprietary shit though.

[naum]

And the ridiculousness of charging premium for text messages that means IM and Skype (or insert $OtherIMClientOrProtocol)… …touting a device for its WiFi, then crippling it by shoehorning the principle benefit of such a device coupled with WiFi access… …may not seem so relevant today, but soon, everywhere you go will have WiFi (be it business, home, office), and you could carry on mobile net activity without lugging a laptop around… …I so want that with GPS and ability to stash notes, but why should I have to send email just to send text?