Raph is no longer taunting us (Metaplace)

[Samwise]

I'm really trying to figure out how this is different from what SL is heading toward...

I think Metaplace is very much like what SL wants to be.  SL's biggest problem IMO is that the content creation tools are about as user-friendly as a grizzly bear.  I've got a lot more patience for that crap than the average human and I still found even the modeling tools to be largely impenetrable (and after that experience I was scared to even try the scripting).  It sounds like Areae wants to make Metaplace more accessible than that.  Bully for them if they can do it.

[Furiously]

If they do it all in 2d sure! Otherwise, who the hell did you get to invest Raph, because I have some stuff I'd like to sell them too....

[hal]

So, the consensus is Raph Hit a nerve? Cool. Sandboxen for all.

[naum]

Maybe you can make Scrabble like games and implement them on another host. Though in that case (and more future cases), established game company bullies a shutdown. Like has happened in past Scrabble web games…

Not that success for $MeatPlace is guaranteed, but I think this is a promising future for games. Soon, half the world will be virtually tethered together, not via clunky desktop (and laptop) computers, but via cell phones and iPod tablets…

[Numtini]

What's there is pretty compelling, SL sucks in every possible way and I spend $24 a month for a treehouse. There's a huge need for a virtual world that isn't overpriced and lagged to death. But the hard parts are the details.

I'm still not sure how this all makes money though.

[UnSub]

I agree with the rest of you about the big question - what's the revenue model?

If I make the world's most popular Metaplace application (say, Naruto is married to Barbie and together they pick berries while fighting off Big Daddies and Lich Kings) am I going to be able to profit from my work? If so, how?

Some subtext I see in Raph's "it's FREE!" comments is that it's free to do the small things. You want bigger, you've got to pay for it. Which is pretty much the motto of the internet anyway ;-)

[squirrel]

I agree with the rest of you about the big question - what's the revenue model?

If I make the world's most popular Metaplace application (say, Naruto is married to Barbie and together they pick berries while fighting off Big Daddies and Lich Kings) am I going to be able to profit from my work? If so, how?

Some subtext I see in Raph's "it's FREE!" comments is that it's free to do the small things. You want bigger, you've got to pay for it. Which is pretty much the motto of the internet anyway ;-)

I wouldn't worry too much about the revenue model. Where eyes go, money follows. I'd be surprised if Raph and Co. had completely established a model to be honest. There's certainly some obvious paths - subscription (as creators), advertising, microtransactions (Pre-fabs). But the first and hardest part is to build a critical mass that allows those things to take place. If it's only 13 of us using it, it's not worth much. If there's 13 million, it's worth a whole lot more, even if you don't know how to extract that rent at the moment.

[Endie]

Personally, I'm sold.  At last, the opportunity for me to give Clown Puncher Online the theatre of dreams it deserves as a setting...

[Simond]

Every asset is a link. Pac-Man is on YOUR host, not ours. "It works like the web" remember?

So I have to host my own servers and foot my own bandwidth bills to do anything with this?

Fail.

[Ixxit]

Every asset is a link. Pac-Man is on YOUR host, not ours. "It works like the web" remember?

So I have to host my own servers and foot my own bandwidth bills to do anything with this?

Fail.

I think from the interviews, the portal page  to 'your world' would be be hosted by them as well as their  assets such as style sheets and associated art, code, etc, but custom user-created art and other assets  would be markup  links  and urls to content stored locally on your machine or 3rd party online storage which are loaded into memory when the client (browser) starts up on the machines of those who are playing your game/virtual space.  So it looks like a combination of both.

I would imagine if a project is quite large with a great number of assets the creator would have to look for an external hosting solution at their own cost that is in addtion to the fee paid to Areae. So yeah, I think it might be a limiting factor if  people are thinking they can create their own mmo game that is on the same scale as we are familiar with.

[Yegolev]

I'm sure Areae would host your textures themselves for a fee.  I mean, why not?

I don't know how YouTube makes money, so I'm not concerned with how this will do so, either.

[BigBlack]

Does this 'linking, rather than hosting' model mean that Raph dodges the bullet on copyright claims when someone uses Areae to create Ario-May the MMORPG?  Are there any good precedents to look to on that sort of thing?  YouTube isn't quite a useful precedent, because it's hosted on their servers.  Kazaa/Bittorrent is more about content distribution, not really content creation (Though is this a distinction without a difference? I'm not really sure). Flash/multimedia repositories like NewGrounds and YTMND fall under the realm of parody, not a directly competing product.  Areae might conceivably used to make better indie versions of products that are currently being marketed with strong investments behind them.  Even beyond the realm of complex MMOs - Bejeweled++?

Requesting amateur lawyerly guesses.

[Ixxit]

I'm sure Areae would host your textures themselves for a fee.  I mean, why not?

I don't know how YouTube makes money, so I'm not concerned with how this will do so, either.

They may, but that wouldn't them leave them open to potential copyright issues ala what happened with Stalker.  It is pretty easy to open up a wad file and extract the textures for your own personal use if you feel so inclined.

[Soln]

Need more understanding.  I'm off to reread the blurbs. 

[Edit]
Got it.  It's an API with paid services.  It's Blogger meets BlitzBasic meets WoW modding.  I finally feel sorry for the Torque guy.

[Ixxit]

Kazaa/Bittorrent is more about content distribution, not really content creation (Though is this a distinction without a difference? I'm not really sure).
Requesting amateur lawyerly guesses.

While I suppose  there is nothing being distributed like traditional  file sharing, I think P2P is still analgous in the sense that the IP violating material, while not directly hosted by Areae,  is still only accessable  through their gateway and their infrastructure facilitates the viewing/use of the material.

[Simond]

So, to summarize - it's a web-based retake on Second Life, where you have to host all your work on your own server(s)?

[Furiously]

That's what I read, only they say their toolset will be easy to use.

I look forward to an easy to use 3d program! I look forward to an easy to use 3d texturing program, I look forward to easy content creation tools.

I'm having a hard time buying any of it.

[Mrbloodworth]

Honestly, i think the best comparison is furcadia.

[tazelbain]

Part of the ease of these internet social things is that they provide the hosting.  Separate hosting, even if it were to be free, is added complexity.  Getting you own hosting is something that belongs in the next level when you get more serious about whatever it is you are doing.

Hosting files is one thing, but who is hosting the server the game runs on?  That's where the bulk of the hosting expense is going to be. MY guess is people think in terms of hosting blog, but hosting any sorta game with a world is going to be much more intensive than that.

[Tmon]

I agree with the rest of you about the big question - what's the revenue model?

If I make the world's most popular Metaplace application (say, Naruto is married to Barbie and together they pick berries while fighting off Big Daddies and Lich Kings) am I going to be able to profit from my work? If so, how?

Some subtext I see in Raph's "it's FREE!" comments is that it's free to do the small things. You want bigger, you've got to pay for it. Which is pretty much the motto of the internet anyway ;-)

Here's something that they posted on the metaplace boards.

Areae’s many revenue models
* World-making is free — much like some introductory blog services, Areae only starts charging users for hosting their Metaplace world when they begin generating heavy traffic.
* There’ll be sponsored worlds from advertisers and/or Areae partners.
* Virtual currency can be spent across the network, and can be sold for real cash — which users and developers can buy from Areae.
* An Adsense-style ad network will track user behavior based on what Metaplace games and worlds they play, and feed them appropriately targeted ads.
* A mini-Metaplace world can be embedded within a web ad, creating instant brand engagement to promote a sponsor’s products.

[Alkiera]

Schild's avatar for Meatplace?


--
Alkiera

[schild]

I don't see a robe.

I said Raptor Jesus.

Not Raptor High School Furry Man.

[Grand Design]

I cannot fucking wait for MeatPlace.


I will be Sir Loin.  My band will be The Fresh Cuts.


Or maybe I don't understand the concept.

[tazelbain]

"For the Shorties!"

[Morfiend]

I don't see a robe.

I said Raptor Jesus.

Not Raptor High School Furry Man.

[Krakrok]

Does this 'linking, rather than hosting' model mean that Raph dodges the bullet on copyright claims when someone uses Areae to create Ario-May the MMORPG?

There is really no difference in it from the current web server/web browser paradigm. Areae has a custom Flash media server basically (web server) and a Flash client (web browser). All current web copyright crap (contributory and vicarious infringement) applies. Nothing new here. I haven't heard of any lawsuits against places like ImageShack and PhotoBucket. Schild was right that no one is sueing FaceBook and Myspace for the massive amount of image copyright infingement on their services. The only difference is things like if you host an unauthorized copy of PacMan you get a cease and desist. Namco has cease and desisted other PacMan Flash clones on the web previously. You'd probably get also a cease and desist even if you were only deep linking the Flash embed. I keep using PacMan because they successfully sued and won on those grounds back in the 80s or 90s. In a second lawsuit against a PacMan likeness they lost because it didn't use a likeness of PacMac even though the game play was functionally similar.

If you had a PacMan clone with PacMan running around eating viagra and then banging the ghosts that would be a parody of PacMan.

[Ixxit]

An Adsense-style ad network will track user behavior based on what Metaplace games and worlds they play, and feed them appropriately targeted ads.

Does this mean I will be bombarded 'Fleshlight' ads  while playing 'Muffcadia' ?

In all seriousness though gamers, in general hate ads and value  their privacy.  If you are trying to attract gamers, which I assume is a large part of your targeted audience,  I would seriously consider having an option of a monthly fee for users that would  eliminate this kind of stuff, and give other tangible benefit over "FREE".  The snippet Tmon posted is evidence enough that nothing is really ever 'FREE'.

Areae’s many revenue models
* World-making is free — much like some introductory blog services, Areae only starts charging users for hosting their Metaplace world when they begin generating heavy traffic.
* There’ll be sponsored worlds from advertisers and/or Areae partners.
* Virtual currency can be spent across the network, and can be sold for real cash — which users and developers can buy from Areae.
* An Adsense-style ad network will track user behavior based on what Metaplace games and worlds they play, and feed them appropriately targeted ads.
* A mini-Metaplace world can be embedded within a web ad, creating instant brand engagement to promote a sponsor’s products.

I know Timon's quote is taken out of a greater context, but my impression is that the whole system is designed  such that with every click someone is either making  money (both Areae and its sponsers) or spending money.  That's cool and all since you do need revenue to survive but my overall feeling is that 'Yippie, more  annoying and intrusive net stuff in my gaming'.

[Bunk]

An Adsense-style ad network will track user behavior based on what Metaplace games and worlds they play, and feed them appropriately targeted ads.

Does this mean I will be bombarded 'Fleshlight' ads  while playing 'Muffcadia' ?

In all seriousness though gamers, in general hate ads and value  their privacy.  If you are trying to attract gamers, which I assume is a large part of your targeted audience,  I would seriously consider having an option of a monthly fee for users that would  eliminate this kind of stuff, and give other tangible benefit over "FREE".  The snippet Tmon posted is evidence enough that nothing is really ever 'FREE'.

I don't think a subsrciption for general end users would really apply, because the impression I get is that the average user probably won't even know they are in Meatspace. It will be Sally visiting her BFF's virtual apartment plugin on her facebook site, and she'll just ignore the same Bratz the Movie ads she is seeing everywhere else.

Now if you have someone go beyond the basic stylesheet stuff, and build something that resembles a true game, then I could see the creator charging a fee for membership that strips out the ads perhaps.

It's all moot anyway til we get a better idea on who hosts what, what you pay for and what you don't, etc...

[Slayerik]

I'm confused.

[dr_dre]

I'm confused.

I 2nd that

[Ixxit]

I don't think a subsrciption for general end users would really apply, because the impression I get is that the average user probably won't even know they are in Meatspace. It will be Sally visiting her BFF's virtual apartment plugin on her facebook site, and she'll just ignore the same Bratz the Movie ads she is seeing everywhere else.

Yeah, I think you are right.  What I am a little confused about is the post from Cuppycake (their community manager) on her blog asking "Why Gamers should care".  That led me to look at it from a gamer's perspective

From what little has been revealed so far it does seem that it is  just the "web but really cool" But also comes  all the commercialism  and stuff we hate:  Ads, clicks for money, general intrusiveness, privacy concerns, etc.  I am sure there is crossover between the myspace crowd and the gaming crowd, and that is what they are hoping for, but the mix has to be right. My first impression is yeah, why the hell should gamers care.  This really isn't something that interests me and doesn't seem to be targetting me.

I am really suprised that they didn't realease details of Raph's flagship  virtual world first which would give some insight  what can be done with the system  and potential of the tools and more importantly remove some of the wild speculation about that Metaplace actually is.  Gamers are attracted to games.  The tools are also interesting but we need to know more about them, and not stuff like you are going to be bombarded with tracking ads and that I can click on a banner and walk around a Coca-Cola ad; these are specifics of interest to investors and potential advertisers not gamers.

I guess all the speculation means that people are going to be talking about Metaplace for some time, which iis a good thing.

[Sky]

Pac-Man, except he has a huge cock.

I'll see you awesome and raise you a splendid.

Not Pac-Man with a huge cock. A huge cock with a Pac-Man head! WOCKA WOCKA

[Sky]

Personally, I'm sold.  At last, the opportunity for me to give Clown Puncher Online the theatre of dreams it deserves as a setting...

I thought that said Clown Punisher. Which would be cool in either direction. A version of the Punisher who is actually a clown, or a Punisher who enacts violence against clowns. Or both, a clown who got kicked out of the circus puts a big skull on the belly of his clown suit and goes around killing other clowns.

This is going to be the best game ever.

[tazelbain]

Or just go for a re-imaging of the whole Marvel Universe as clowns.

[schild]

Or just go for a re-imaging of the whole Marvel Universe as clowns.

Re-imaging?

But the Marvel Universe is already a clown car.