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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: Expansion Talents and Spells Released 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Expansion Talents and Spells Released  (Read 60257 times)
Threash
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Reply #70 on: August 30, 2006, 10:07:10 AM

You'll be a respectable damage dealer as a 0/0/0 rogue, but as a rogue since you contribute absolutely nothing else to a raid "respectable" doesn't quite cut it like it does for mages/hunters/warlocks.  The only dps talent sub is getting is the improved agi one, and i guess master of subtlety in short fights where 30 seconds of 10% extra damage can make a difference (assuming 10% at the start and after 2 vanishes),  neither of which is enough to close the gap with the extremely scalable combat talents like dual wield spec, precision, blade flurry and weapon specs, not to mention theres still the crutch of weapon expertise which is a must unless you are a human using swords or maces.  Your dps will be "ok" if you go deep in sub, but you'll never compare to a combat rogue.

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Morfiend
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Reply #71 on: August 30, 2006, 10:16:55 AM

Anyway, back to the new talents.  Does it looks like the new sub talents will close the damage gap between hemo builds and combat dagger/sword builds in PvE?  I'm thinking of starting a rogue for the expansion, and I'd love to have all those utility talents in sub and still be a respectable raid damage dealer.

Closing the gap, by a little bit, but if you are really in to raiding, Combat is going to be the way to go.

PVE Swords: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-rogue/talents.html?305322105002102000000024005202005014023212000000000000000000000000

PVE Daggers: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-rogue/talents.html?305321105000102000000005305002054010023210000500000000000000000000

Those are both rough specs, but you get the idea.

I was trying to male a PVE hemo spec, and there are just so many skills in Sub that work for PVP only, I cant reccomend Hemo for PVE. Now, if your in a casual guild, then just spec how you want and they shouldnt worry about it, but any combat build is going to smoke you in a raid for DPS.
bhodi
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Reply #72 on: September 04, 2006, 10:18:52 AM

Bumpity bump. Druid talents have been leaked... some SERIOUS bonuses in there for feral/balance. It makes me want to main switch from a rogue.

http://wow.gamemeca.com/special/section/html_section/wow/focus/info_board/view.html?subcode=c0583&page=1&search_kind=&search_text=&id=4748&gid=4673&head=
Threash
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Reply #73 on: September 04, 2006, 11:09:55 AM

They seem very interested in giving the non raiding specs raid utility, that feral buff is a huge dps boost for your rogues and warriors and basically a must have on the level of fort and they gave ret palis a 2% crit for the whole raid talent.  A great idea but i dont see it meshing so well with the new raid cap.

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Morfiend
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Reply #74 on: September 04, 2006, 11:22:17 AM

IMO, 2% crit means not much. Maybe some one can do the math and prove me wrong, but my gut feeling is that its a pretty weak talent.
Merusk
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Reply #75 on: September 04, 2006, 12:02:12 PM

IMO, 2% crit means not much. Maybe some one can do the math and prove me wrong, but my gut feeling is that its a pretty weak talent.

I'll admit I could be completly wrong, but the quick math I did said 2% crit is ~1dps. Woo!  Then again, 1dps across a raid would be a 20-40dps increase without upgrading anyone's gear.

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bhodi
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No lie.


Reply #76 on: September 04, 2006, 12:29:50 PM

You aren't taking into account a lot of spells and abilities that do extra stuff if they crit.. for example, rolling ignites, vengance (earlier in that tree), and I'm sure there are others. Also, rogues do extra crit damage due to talents. It works out to be a bit more than 1dps per person; maybe even 2dps. One talent that increases your dps (by proxy, much like hemorrage) by that much is very nice. Contrast that with the rogue combat tree's 41 pt talent which actually decreases our dps.
Threash
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Reply #77 on: September 04, 2006, 12:30:11 PM

Actually for melee characters a 1% increase in crit chance is at least a 1% increase in dps (more if you have talents that increase crit damage like lethality does for backstabs), so it would be an increase of at least 2% of all your melee damage or slightly more.

Edit: i think you may have confused 1% increase in dps with 1dps, which are very far from the same.

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caladein
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Reply #78 on: September 04, 2006, 12:54:34 PM

They seem very interested in giving the non raiding specs raid utility, that feral buff is a huge dps boost for your rogues and warriors and basically a must have on the level of fort and they gave ret palis a 2% crit for the whole raid talent.  A great idea but i dont see it meshing so well with the new raid cap.

Or maybe they're just making it so you don't really have "not raid viable" specs :P.

Bumpity bump. Druid talents have been leaked... some SERIOUS bonuses in there for feral/balance. It makes me want to main switch from a rogue.

http://wow.gamemeca.com/special/section/html_section/wow/focus/info_board/view.html?subcode=c0583&page=1&search_kind=&search_text=&id=4748&gid=4673&head=

I'm in love with the Druid talents. In Balance, YOU GET A TREE (I mean, I really can't get past how cool that is) and it also means a Balance Druid can cure all debuffs. They're also addressing the whole "Oomkin" thing, which is awesome. Also, with Moon Armor, you basically get Plate armor with Felhunter Resists in Moonkin.

Feral: Animal Reflexes cuts the cast time on Regrowth down to .5s, so a bit less reliance on Nature's Swiftness is always good. Survival of the Fittest is absolute Hybrid love. Deeper down Scent of the Pack's an extra 15% damage in a 25-man raid and along with Mark of the Claw, a Feral Druid is going to be even more crack for Rogues and Warriors :D. On the PvP side, Feral Recovery would probably piss some Hunters off :P (you can shift while feared from Scare Beast... so it's a 1/3 chance to break the fear at worst).

Resto: Resilience is going to compete with the Tree for Moonkins (34/0/28-ish), either you go heavy Balance for more damage and offensive support, or you pick up Resilience for endurance and more defensive support. Awakening kinda sucks (brings Innervate down to 5m). The new Nature's Focus is going to be amazing for Balance Druids (Moonkin love, who'd have thought...). Harmonize is rather useless (Tranqulity's not so great) unless you have both a Druid and a Priest in the same group since the 100 mana cost is nothing compared to the efficiency gain of healing 5 people with Prayer of Healing.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
stray
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Reply #79 on: September 04, 2006, 12:57:37 PM

To hell with raiding utility, Druids are going to be even harder to take down in PvP. It's already nice that they can't be snared or poly'ed, and Feral Recovery is just going to add another dimension to that (here's hoping one of those dispeable effects is Fear. I'll laugh if one of them is Stun). That it has a secondary effect of letting animal forms being healed for more (telling from the Talent, it'll be 15%?) is just icing on the cake.

Animal Reflexes is a nice 'real world' skill. Looks like somebody at Blizzard is actually playing Druids.

Viciousness just might bring the shock factor of Druid damage closer to what Rogues and Warriors. Or at least it will sometimes.

I know little about Balance, but it looks like it gets the biggest boost of all. Now if only somebody leaked what new gear will be avaibable for it.

[edit] Caladein beat me to the punch.
caladein
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Reply #80 on: September 04, 2006, 01:14:00 PM

I know little about Balance, but it looks like it gets the biggest boost of all. Now if only somebody leaked what new gear will be avaibable for it.

Balance Leather, just like Dwarf Females, is a myth.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Merusk
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Reply #81 on: September 04, 2006, 06:28:32 PM

Actually for melee characters a 1% increase in crit chance is at least a 1% increase in dps (more if you have talents that increase crit damage like lethality does for backstabs), so it would be an increase of at least 2% of all your melee damage or slightly more.

Edit: i think you may have confused 1% increase in dps with 1dps, which are very far from the same.

Nope, 1dps.  I did, however, forget to include the crit-damage bonuses when I was fiddling.  Recalcing with a 30% bonus to crit damage ups it to 2dps.

 Now, what I'm doing is flawed, beacause I'm not including specials and I know that's a large chunk of damage I'm missing out on.  I could calc it for hunters (10s 'damage cycle') but not knowing enough of the melee classes I'm loathe to go any deeper than I did, since I wouldn't know the damage period to use.

Anyone with a good grip on math who loves putzing with spreadsheets is welcome to delve deeper.  I work with shapes, so geometry is my strong point.. working any deeper will only compound my errors.


Here's what I did. 

Figure your Average weapon damage & crit damage (include that extra %)
Figure out how many swings in a minute
Multiply swings/ min times your crit %.  That's how many can be crits
Multiply # of crits * crit damage
Multiply # of swings (minus crit swings) times average damage
Add these together.  That's your damage/ min.

Do the same for crit chance "b"
Subtract total 1 from total 2 and divide by 60s/m to see the DPS difference

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SurfD
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Reply #82 on: September 05, 2006, 12:47:03 AM

Scent of the pack looks rediculously over powered / bizzare.  A feral Druid in bear form in a 40 man raid could get OBSCENE damage reduction from that buff.  Of course, that also means that they would have crap for rage generation, since they get most of their rage from taking damage and very little rage from hitting stuff.

.4% per person in a raid with Mark / Gift of Wild and Mark / Gift of Claw, even assuming those dont stack (ie you cant have Wild and Claw at same time), thats 16% reduction, if you CAN get both, thats 32% reduction.  And considering that some druids can ALREADY hit 70% reduction in Bear form with top tier gear.........

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stray
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Reply #83 on: September 05, 2006, 01:38:48 AM

thats 16% reduction, if you CAN get both, thats 32% reduction.  And considering that some druids can ALREADY hit 70% reduction in Bear form with top tier gear.........

Heh, sounds like launch era CoH Invuln Tanks.
Fordel
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Reply #84 on: September 05, 2006, 02:15:12 AM

My guess with the Mark/Claw buffs is they'll be like Paladin Blessings, only one per druid on a target at a time. So two druids, you get both buffs. I'm also guessing the Scent talent is balanced around the idea of 25-20-10 man raids, not the 40s. Still something like 10% (if my math doesn't fail me) in a 25man raid, nothing to scoff at by any means. Heck, even without the other feral talents, the new claw buff would guarantee at least one feral druid in every large raid.


As to the balance talents... I *SO* want them to be real, please be real, please! I want a pet tree :(.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Sairon
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Reply #85 on: September 06, 2006, 03:27:44 AM

My take on the crit.

2% crit isn't +2% dmg, that's only true when going from 0% crit to 2% crit chance, this is if crit dmg is twice normal dmg. 1 - 2 DPS sounds wrong as well, since the increase varies depending on your dmg output. I don't know the average DPS of a well equipped rogue these days, but lets say a rogue with beefed up attack power averages 400 DPS, not accounting crit. Then +2% crit should be +8 DPS.
SurfD
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Reply #86 on: September 06, 2006, 04:18:39 AM

Edit: never mind, forgot that spell resists are not calculated out of 100 total.  Moon armor may not be totally overpowered.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 04:36:03 AM by SurfD »

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ZariusZer0
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Reply #87 on: September 06, 2006, 10:41:58 AM

Mages got a few nifty little things, but most of the new stuff seems either pretty uninspired, weaker than existing abilities, or almost pointless.

Out of our abilities, only SpellSteal, Ice Lance and Arcane Blast look interesting at all.

Arcane Blast will be some very fast, very inefficient damage after a couple casts, but it gives Arcane a needed single target, casted, nuke. I like the idea. not sure how much use it'll get, but it's interesting.

Ice Lance will hit about as hard as a frostbolt on a frozen target, and that's really all that you would use it for. A one second faster frostbolt agaisnt frozen targets. Against a non-frozen target, you'd be better off casting a lower ranked frostbolt to snare them, and try to proc frostbite. I mean, i'm all for hitting for a lot of damage on a 1.5 second cast, but maybe giving it another condition, only useable when their not frozen. As it is, fire mages will never use it, and a different conditional debuff might give it some value to them

Spellsteal, however, I love. It should give us a nice little boost agaisnt other casters, which is where Mages are at their worst. Usable both offensively to remove buffs, and defensively to steal HoT's and shields, it's a very nifty little trick. It's expensive, but i can see why. Overall, one of our best changes.

Our two other abilities, however, seem pretty lackluster.

Molten Armor seems almost completely worthless. 75 damage when you get hit isn't much at all, compared to what you'll be losing. And the crit recieved reduction, while a good idea..i'm just not sure it'll be better than Ice armor or Mage armor. And while those two have obvious uses, I'm not seeing Molten's. I have seen some comment that it'll be useful for AoE situations in PvE, so perhaps. I suppose if it can proc Impact it might have some use too.

Invisibility is way to limited to do anything right now. It's a victim of pre-nerfing. It lasts 20 seconds, has an 8 second fade out, breaks on a hostile action on or by the mage, and has a 5 minute cooldown. And on top of all that, While invisible, the mage can only see other people who can see invisible people. All of them together just cripple the spell. With no visibility, it can't be used to surprise people that well, or for reconnaisance. With a fade out, it can't be used for escape. With such a short duration, it can't be used for much travel, and with such a long cooldown, the short bursts of travel it might provide arent' reliable. I just don't see many uses for it. I suppose to eat or drink after a fight, or to sneak past enemy lines in well known areas, such as AV. But even then, when it wears off, you could be in the middle of a group of enemies, and you'd have no way to know.

The 41 point talents..i'm Undecided on. Slow might prove useful for Arc/Fire mages, as an instant cast kiting tool. Useful, but i'd prefer to see it as a base spell, with something more original for Arcane. Or have it slow casting speed a little. Dragon's Breath is very nice. Good damage in a AoE, with a 3 second Disorient, and a low cooldown. Granted, Ignites off of it will break it's own disorient, but it'll still be a nice AoE pause button. And Water elemental we really don't know anythign about, so it's early to make a judgement. However, I'm skeptical about a Pet. Had I wanted DD and a pet, i would have rolled Lock. So let's hope it's not just an icy Imp.

Some of the new talents seem really good, some seem really bad. Right out, the Empowered Fireball and Empowered Frostbolt are almost worthless, providing to one spell, about half the value that earlier talents provided to an entire school of spells. And this on Tier 8 Talents. And that seems to be the case with several of them. They either provide weaker bonuses then earlier talents, or way too limited bonuses, that aren't strong enough to justify the limitations.

Burning Speed, Molten Fury in Fire are good, but the other new ones (Playing with Fire and Burnout) require either a daze, which only one mage spell can produce (which is on a 30 second cooldown), or cause more increased damage to you than you gain, which seems a bit lousy to me.

In Frost, Ice Floes is good, but Arctic Winds seems pretty poor. for 5 points, a 5% chance to not be hit by melee or ranged attacks (the attacks of the classes we already do best against) just seems bad. If it included spells it would be worthwhile, and a nice comparison to Arcane's Prismatic cloak. 5% less hits, vs. 5% less damage. But as is, it's just not worth it. Lukcily the beginning of the frost tree has enough goodies to help, but overall, fairly weak changes.

Arcane got the best talents, making a deep arcane spec fairly viable, but most still weren't terribly exciting. The beginning of the tree still sucks, but Mind Mastery, combined with the changed, and now synergistic Arcane Mind, will be a nice spellpower boost. Arcane Potency gives 30% extra crit on clearcasts, so with a bit of planning and care, your clearcasts can be quite frightening. Empowered Arcane Missiles, combined with the existing Imp. ARcane missiles, might finally make the spell worth casting, and definitly is better than the other empowered talents. And prismatic cloak is a nice little talent for the mage who wants just a bit more toughness. Improved blink is a meh talent, as blinks' mana cost wasn't prohibitive, but could add up. Still, i'd prefer fixed blink to improved blink.
SurfD
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Reply #88 on: September 06, 2006, 12:35:40 PM

Molten Armor seems almost completely worthless. 75 damage when you get hit isn't much at all, compared to what you'll be losing. And the crit recieved reduction, while a good idea..i'm just not sure it'll be better than Ice armor or Mage armor. And while those two have obvious uses, I'm not seeing Molten's. I have seen some comment that it'll be useful for AoE situations in PvE, so perhaps. I suppose if it can proc Impact it might have some use too.

Actually, depending on how they handle this one, it could be VERY powerfull.

Dont suppose you remember the heydey of the Cloak of Fire do you?.  At one point, Cloak of Fire somehow managed to get FULL benefit from +damage gear.  Meaning that an Arcane / Fire mage could pop AP and the Cloak and the ticks off the Cloak would start hitting in the 6 to 7 HUNDRED damage a tick range.

Depending on A: how many ranks of this we get, and B: how it is affected by +damage gear, it could get very nice indeed.  Chances are it can also proc ignite / impact as well.

Remember, this is also PER HIT.  So unlike Lightning Shield, this thing procs every time you get hit, which means fast damage classes like rogues could do themselves some serious damage before they kill you. (probably more damage from this then Lightning Shield, per capita)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 12:41:44 PM by SurfD »

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
ClydeJr
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Reply #89 on: September 06, 2006, 02:16:13 PM

New profession stuff, cut'n'pasted from another board since worldofraids.com is blocked from here.

http://www.worldofraids.com/v2/?page=professions

Quote
Alchemy :
New cap - Herb Gathering (Master) : How to find and gather Outland herbs. Gives a potential herbalism skill of 375.

Alchemy Specializations :

Potion Master
Allows an alchemist to sometimes create an additional potion when brewing high level potions.

Transmutation Master
Allows an Alchemist to sometimes to get greater results when transmuting materials.

Elixir Master
Allows an alchemist to sometimes create an additional elixir when brewing high level elixirs.

Flasks :

Flask of Fortification
Increases the player's maximum health by 1500 and Defense Rating by 30 for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Flask of Relentless Assault
Increases the player's attack power by 360 for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Flask of Mighty Restoration
Increases the player's mana regeneration by 70 mana per 5 seconds for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Flask of Shadow Fortification
Increases the player's resistance to shadow spells by 75 and health regeneration by 40 every 5 seconds for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Flask of Arcane Fortification
Increases the player's resistance to arcane spells by 75 and health regeneration by 40 every 5 seconds for 2 hour. You can only have the effect of one flask at a time. This effect persists though death.

Potions :

Major Holy Protection Potion
Major Arcane Protection Potion
Major Dreamless Sleep Potion
Major Fire Protection Potion
Major Frost Protection Potion
Major Nature Protection Potion
Major Shadow Protection Potion

These absorb 2800-4000 damage

*Major Dreamless Sleep Potion : Puts the imbiber in a dreamless sleep for 12 sec. During that time the imbiber heals 3600 health and 3600 mana.
Super Healing Potion : Restores 1500-2500 health.
Super Mana Potion : Restores 1800-3000 mana.
*Heroic Potion : Increases Strength by 70 and temporarily increases health by 700 for 15 sec.
*Destruction Potion : Increases spell critical chance by 2% and spell damage by 120 for 15 sec.
*Ironshield Potion : Increases armor by 2500 for 2 min.
*Sneaking Potion : Increases Stealth a great deal for 30 sec.
*Shrouding Potion : Shrouds you from nearby enemies so you seem less threatening to them.
*Haste Potion : Increases Haste Rating by 400 for 15 sec.

Insane Strength Potion
Requires Level 45
Increases your Strength by 120 and decreases your Defense Rating by 75 for 15 sec.

Elixirs :

Elixir of Major Frost Power : Increases frost spell damage by up to 55 for 1 hour.
Elixir of Major Firepower : Increases fire spell damage by up to 65 for 1 hour.
Elixir of Major Agility : Increases your Agility by 35 for 1 hour.
Elixir of Major Armor : Increases armor by 550 for 1 hour.
*Elixir of Major Mageblood : Regenerate 16 mana per 5 sec for 1 hour.
Elixir of Empowerment : Decreases the magical resistances of your spell targets by 30 for 1 hour.
Elixir of the Searching Eye :
Elixir of Camouflage: Imbiber cannot be tracked for 1 hour.
*Elixir of Dodging :

Transmutes :

Transmute - Primal Earth to Life
Transmute - Primal Fire to Mana
Transmute - Primal Life to Earth
Transmute - Primal Mana to Fire
Transmute - Primal Shadow to Water
Transmute - Primal Water to Shadow
Transmute: Primal Earth to Water
Transmute: Primal Fire to Earth
Transmute - Primal Air to Fire
Transmute - Primal Water to Air

Transmute - Primal Might
Teaches you how to Transmute Primal Air, Water, Earth and Fire into Primal Might.

Primals are created with a spell "Create Primal XYZ" that uses "10 motes" of earth, shadow, air, etc. Not sure what profession is used to make those or where these items come from.

Engineering apparently has something to do with Alchemy now, my guess is that these two items create the Super Healing/Mana pots. The injectors are listed as requiring the Black Anvil. Good to see that at level 70 we'll still be running BRD.
Schematic: Healing Potion Injector
Schematic: Mana Potion Injector

Enchanting :

Boots :

* Enchant Boots - Dexterity : Permanently enchant a piece of boots armor to grant +12 Agility.
* Enchant Boots - Surefooted : Permanently enchant boots to give 5% snare and root resistance as well as a 1% bonus to hit.
* Enchant Boots - Vitality : Permanently enchant boots to restore 4 mana and health every 5 seconds.

Bracers :

* Enchant Bracer - Brawn : Permanently enchants bracers to increase Strength by 12.
* Enchant Bracer - Stats : Permanently enchants bracers to increase all stats by 4.
* Enchant Bracer - Major Defense : Permanently enchants bracers to increase your defense by 8.
* Enchant Bracer - Restore Mana Prime : Permanently enchants bracers to restore 6 mana every 5 seconds.
* Enchant Bracer - Spellpower : Permanently enchants bracers to increase damage done by spells by up to 15.
* Enchant Bracer - Superior Healing : Permanently enchants bracers to increase the effect of healing spells by up to 30.

Chest :

* Enchant Chest - Exceptional Health : Permanently enchant a piece of chest armor to grant +150 health.
* Enchant Chest - Exceptional Mana : Permanently enchant a piece of chest armor to grant +150 mana.
* Enchant Chest - Exceptional Stats : Permanently enchant a piece of chest armor to increase all stats by 6.

Cloak :

* Enchant Cloak - Major Armor : Permanently enchant a cloak to give a 120 additional armor.
* Enchant Cloak - Major Resistance : Permanently enchant a cloak to increase all resistances by 7.

Ring :

* Enchant Ring - Healing Power : Permanently enchant a ring to increase healing spell effects by up to 20.
* Enchant Ring - Spellpower : Permanently enchant a ring to add up to 12 damage to spells.
* Enchant Ring - Stats : Permanently enchant a ring to increase all stats by 4.
* Enchant Ring - Weapon Might : Permanently enchant a ring to add 2 damage to physical attacks.

Shield :

* Enchant Shield - Though Shield : Permanently enchant a shield to give 18 additional block value.
* Enchant Shield - Shield Block : Permanently enchant a shield to give +15 Shield Block Rating.
* Enchant Shield - Intellect : Permanently enchant a shield to give 12 intellect.
* Enchant Shield - Resistance : Permanently enchant a shield to increase resistance to all magic schools by 5.

Weapon :

* Enchant Weapon - Battlemaster : Permanently enchant a weapon to give a chance on striking to heal your party of 50 damage over 10 seconds.
* Enchant Weapon - Major Spirit : Permanently enchant a melee weapon to increase Spirit by 35.
* Enchant Weapon - Major Striking : Permanently enchant a melee weapon to do 7 additional points of damage.
* Enchant Weapon - Major Intellect : Permanently enchant a melee weapon to grant +30 Intellect.
* Enchant Weapon - Potency : Permanently enchant a melee weapon to add 20 Strength.
* Enchant Weapon - Major Spellpower : Permanently enchant a melee weapon to add up to 40 damage to all spells.
* Enchant Weapon - Sunfire : Permanently enchant a melee weapon to add up to 50 damage to fire and arcane spells.
* Enchant Weapon - Soulfrost : Permanently enchant a melee weapon to add up to 54 damage to frost and shadow spells.
* Enchant Weapon - Mongoose : Permanently enchant a melee weapon to occasionally increase Agility by 120 and attack speed slightly.
* Enchant Weapon - Spellsurge : Permanently enchant a melee weapon to have a 3% chance on spellcast to restore 100 mana to all party members of 10 seconds.
* Enchant 2H Weapon - Major Agility : Permanently enchant a two-handed melee weapon to add 35 Agility.
* Enchant 2H Weapon - Savagery : Permanently enchant a two-handed melee weapon to increase attack power by 70.

*Engineering :

Fireworks :

- Blue Smoke Flare : Throw a blue smoke flare at a specific location that lasts for 5 min.
- Green Smoke Flare : Throw a green smoke flare at a specific location that lasts for 5 min.
- Red Smoke Flare : Throw a red smoke flare at a specific location that lasts for 5 min.
- White Smoke Flare : Throw a white smoke flare at a specific location that lasts for 5 min.

Explosives :

- Adamantite Grenade : Inflicts 450-751 Fire damage and stuns targets for 3 sec in a 3 yard radius. Any damage will break the effect. Unreliable against targets higher than level 80.
- Elemental Seaforium Charge : Blasts open all but the mightiest of locked doors.
- Fel Iron Bomb : Inflicts 330-771 Fire damage and stuns targets in a 5 yard radius for 3 sec. Any damage will break the effect. Unrelaible against targets higher than level 76.
- Rocket Launcher : Fire a Powerful Rocket at the enemy that does 960 to 1440 damage and stuns them for 2 sec. This thing has quite a kick though...
- Supper Sapper Charge : Explodes when triggered dealing 675 to 1125 Fire damage to all enemies nearby and 900 to 1500 to you.
- The Bigger One : Inflicts 600-1001 Fire damage and stuns targets for 5 sec in a 10 yard radius. Any damage will break the effect. Unrelaible against targets higher than level 80.

Head stuff and various gadgets :

- Critter Enlarger : Enlarges a critter to twice its normal size.
- Foreman's Enchanted Helmet : Increases your chance to resist Silence and Interrupts effects by 10%.
- Foreman's Reinforced Helmet : Increases your chance to resist Stun and Disorient effects by 10%.
- Gnomish Flame Turret : Quickly constructs a gnomish flame turret at your feet that will nearly always attack nearby enemies.
- Gnomish Poultryizer : Turns the target into a chicken for 15 seconds. Well, that is assuming the transmogrification polarity has not been reversed....
- Hyper-Vision Goggles : Increases your stealth detection for 15 sec.
- Remote Mail Terminal : Unfold the Remote Mail Terminal so that it can receive and send mail. It only has enough power to last for 5 min.
- Rocket Boots Xtreme : Engage the rocket boots to greatly increase your speed. You probably wont be still standing when you get there though...

Scopes :

- Stabilized Eternium Scope : Attaches a permanent scope to a bow or gun that increases its Critical Hit Rating by 1%.
- Khorium Scope : Attaches a permanent scope to a bow or gun that increases its damage by 12.
- Adamantite Scope : Attaches a permanent scope to a bow or gun that increases its damage by 10.

Missing descritpions :

Adamantite Frame
Adamantite Rifle
Adamantite Shells
Cogspinner Goggles
Crashin' Thrashin' Robot
Critter Enlarger
Elemental Blasting Powder
Fel Iron Casing
Fel Iron Musket
Fel Iron Shells
Fel Iron Toolbox
Felsteel Boomstick
Felsteel Stabilizer
Gnomish Battle Goggles
Gnomish Poultryizer
Gnomish Power Goggles
Handful of Fel Iron Bolts
Gnomish Tonk Controller
Goblin Tonk Controller
Hardened Adamantite Tube
Healing Potion Injector
Khorium Power Core
Khorium Toolbox
Mana Potion Injector
Nigh-Invulnerability Belt
Ornate Khorium Rifle
Ornate Khorium Rifle
Power Amplification Goggles
Ultra-Spectropic Detection Goggles
Zapthrottle Mote Extractor

*Jewelcrafting :

Cut Agate
Cut Aquamarine
Cut Azerothian Diamond
Cut Citrine
Cut Emerald
Cut Jade
Cut Malachite
Cut Moonstone
Cut Opal
Cut Ruby
Cut Sapphire
Cut Shadowgem
Cut Tigerseye

Trinkets :

- Figurine - Black Diamond Crab : Reduces melee damage taken by 35 for 20 sec.
- Figurine - Black Pearl Panther : Increases attack power by 90 for 12 sec.
- Figurine - Dark Iron Scorpid : Every swing poisons your foe for 15 damage over 10 sec.
- Figurine - Dawnstone Crab : Reduces melee damage taken by 50 for 20 sec.
- Figurine - Emerald Owl : Restores 60 mana every second for 12 sec.
- Figurine - Felsteel Boar : Summons the Felsteel Boar to fight for you.
- Figurine - Golden Hare : Increased speed by 30% and prevents new snares from landing on the user for 12 sec.
- Figurine - Jade Owl : Restores 30 mana every second for 12 sec.
- Figurine - Living Ruby Serpent : Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 150 for 20 sec.
- Figurine - Nightseye Panther : Increases attack power by 320 for 12 sec.
- Figurine - Ruby Serpent : Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 100 for 20 sec.
- Figurine - Talasite Owl : Restores 900 mana over 12 sec.
- Figurine - Truesilver Boar : Summons the Truesilver Boar to fight for you for 30 seconds.
- F igurine - Truesilver Crab : Reduces melee damage taken by 20 for 20 sec.


Bold Blood Garnet
Bold Living Ruby
Bright Living Ruby
Brilliant Dawnstone
Brilliant Golden Draenite
Dawnstone Crab
Dazzling Deep Peridot
Dazzling Talasite
Delicate Blood Garnet
Enduring Deep Peridot
Enduring Talasite
Enscribed Noble Topaz
Enscribed Flame Spessarite
Flashing Living Ruby
Gleaming Dawnstone
Gleaming Golden Draenite
Glinting Flame Spessarite
Glinting Noble Topaz
Glowing Nightseye
Glowing Shadow Draenite
Jagged Deep Peridot
Jagged Talasite
Luminous Flame Spessarite
Luminous Noble Topaz
Lustrous Azure Moonstone
Lustrous Star of Elune
Mystic Dawnstone
Potent Flame Spessarite
Potent Noble Topaz
Radiant Deep Peridot
Radiant Talasite
Rigid Dawnstone
Rigid Golden Draenite
Royal Nightseye
Royal Shadow Draenite
Runed Blood Garnet
Runed Living Ruby
Shifting Nightseye
Shifting Shadow Draenite
Smooth Dawnstone
Solid Azure Moonstone
Subtle Living Ruby
Teadrop Living Ruby
Teardrop Blood Garnet
Solid Star of Elune
Sovereign Nightseye
Sovereign Shadow Draenite
Sparkling Azure Moonstone
Sparkling Star of Elune
Stormy Azure Moonstone
Stormy Star of Elune
Thick Dawnstone
Thick Golden Draenite

Amulet of the Moon
Arcane Khorium Band
Arcanite Sword Pendant
Blazing Citrine Ring
Blazing Eternium Band
Blood Crown
Braided Eternium Chain
Chain of the Twilight Owl
Circlet of Arcane Might
Citrine Pendant of Golden Healing
Coronet of the Verdant Flame
Delicate Eternium Ring
Delicate Living Ruby
Embrace of the Dawn
Emerald Crown of Destruction
Engraved Truesilver Ring
Eye of the Night
Fel Iron Blood Ring
Gem Studded Band
Golden Draenite Ring
Golden Dragon Ring
Heavy Adamantite Ring
Heavy Copper Ring
Heavy Felsteel Ring
Heavy Golden Necklace of Battle
Heavy Iron Knuckles
Heavy Silver Ring
Inlaid Malachite Ring
Jade Pendant of Blasting
Khorium Band of Frost
Khorium Band of Leaves
Khorium Band of Shadows
Khorium Inferno Band
Living Emerald Pendant
Living Ruby Pendant
Malachite Pendant
Necklace of the Diamond Tower
Onslaught Ring
Opal Necklace of Impact
Ornate Tigerseye Necklace
Pendant of Frozen Flame
Pendant of Shadow's End
Pendant of Thawing
Pendant of the Agate Shield
Pendant of the Null Rune
Pendant of Withering
Ring of Bitter Shadows
Ring of Silver Might
Ring of Twilight Shadows
Ruby Crown of Restoration
Ruby Pendant of Fire
Sapphire Pendant of Winter Night
Sapphire Signet
Silver Rose Pendant
Simple Opal Ring
Simple Pearl Ring
Solid Bronze Ring
Thick Adamantite Necklace
Thick Bronze Necklace
Thick Felsteel Necklace
Tigerseye Band
Truesilver Healing Ring
Wicked Moonstone Ring
Woven Copper Ring

*Blacksmithing :

Felsteel Shield Spike: Attaches a Felsteel Spike to your shield that deals 26-38 damage every time you block with it.

Greater Rune of Shielding : Applies the Greater Rune of Shielding to a shield. This rune absorbs up to 4000 points of damage before it fails.
Greater Rune of Warding : Put a Greater Rune of Warding on chest armor or robe that stops 400 points of damage every 2 minutes. Lasts for 1 hour.
Lesser Rune of Shielding : Applies the Lesser Rune of Shielding to your shield. This rune absorbs up to 1000 points of damage before it fails.
Lesser Rune of Warding : Put a Lesser Rune of Warding on chest armor or a robe that stops 200 points of damage every 2 minutes. Lasts for 1 hour.

Adamantite Sharpening Stone : Increase sharp weapon damage by 12 and add 1% crit for 30 minutes.
Fel Sharpening Stone : Increase sharp weapon damage by 12 for 30 minutes.

Adamantite Breastplate
Adamantite Cleaver
Adamantite Dagger
Adamantite Maul
Adamantite Plate Bracers
Adamantite Plate Gloves
Adamantite Rapier
Black Felsteel Bracers
Blessed Bracers
Bracers of the Green Fortress
Dirge
Earthpeace Breastplate
Enchanted Adamantite Belt
Enchanted Adamantite Boots
Enchanted Adamantite Breastplate
Enchanted Adamantite Leggings
Eternium Runed Blade
Fel Edged Battleaxe
Fel Hardened Maul
Fel Iron Breastplate
Fel Iron Chain Bracers
Fel Iron Chain Coif
Fel Iron Chain Gloves
Fel Iron Chain Tunic
Fel Iron Greatsword
Fel Iron Hammer
Fel Iron Hatchet
Fel Iron Plate Belt
Fel Iron Plate Boots
Fel Iron Plate Gloves
Fel Iron Plate Pants
Felfury Gauntlets
Felsteel Gloves
Felsteel Helm
Felsteel Leggings
Felsteel Longblade
Felsteel Reaper
Gauntlets of the Iron Tower
Hand of Eternity
Helm of the Stalwart Defender
Khorium Belt
Khorium Boots
Khorium Champion
Khorium Pants
Oathkeeper's Helm
Ragesteel Breastplate
Ragesteel Gloves
Ragesteel Helm
Runic Hammer
Shadowiron Bracers
Shadowiron Breastplate
Shadowiron Gloves
Shadowiron Helm
Steelgrip Gauntlets
Storm Helm
Swiftsteel Gloves

*Leatherworking :

Nether Armor Kit : Permanently increase the mana regeneration of an item worn on the chest, legs, hands or feet by 3 mana every 5 seconds. Only usable on items level 60 and above.
Earth Armor Kit : Permanently increase the defense rating of an item worn on the chest, legs, hands or feet by 8. Only usable on items level 60 and above.
Outland Armor Kit : Permanently increase the stamina of an item worn on the chest, legs, hands or feet by 8. Only usable on items level 55 and above.

Comfortable Insoles
Fel Leather Boots
Fel Leather Gloves
Fel Leather Leggings
Felscale Boots
Felscale Breastplate
Felscale Gloves
Felscale Pants
Felstalker Belt
Felstalker Bracers
Felstalker Breastplate
Heavy Clefthoof Boots
Heavy Clefthoof Leggings
Heavy Clefthoof Vest
Heavy Outland Leather
Netherfury Belt
Netherfury Boots
Netherfury Leggings
Outland Leather
Primal Riding Crop
Scaled Outland Boots
Scaled Outland Gloves
Scaled Outland Pants
Scaled Outland Vest
Stylin' Adventure Hat
Stylin' Crimson Hat
Stylin' Jungle Hat
Stylin' Purple Hat
Thick Outland Boots
Thick Outland Gloves
Thick Outland Pants
Thick Outland Vest
Wild Outland Boots
Wild Outland Gloves
Wild Outland Leggings
Wild Outland Vest
Sogrinaugh
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Posts: 176


Reply #90 on: September 06, 2006, 09:43:42 PM

Mages got a few nifty little things, but most of the new stuff seems either pretty uninspired, weaker than existing abilities, or almost pointless.
I Agree for the most part.

However, i dont understand how people are getting so siked over spellsteal?  Stealing a lock's Fel Armor seems pretty hot untill you realize you only keep it for 2 minutes.  Depending on if the buff it steals is completely random, or if their is a "priority" attached to it, it isn't terribly great against priests or druids, i mean wow u waste a ton of mana to grab his thorns or inner fire?  Sure its clutch if you snatch the shield or rejuv but seems half-baked with the 2minute limit and inability to select the buff you are stealing.  Not sure why they didnt just let you steal the buf for whatever duration it has left, or maybe allow some mechanism for player selection of the desired buff.

For the classes i have looked at, i see the "power" builds as being some 30/31 type deal, not 40 or 41 in anything.  If you look at most of the talents above the 31 point mark, you are mostly getting weaker versions of shit thats already in the game.  Lightning overload looks sexy untill you realize its a more random less versatile version of concusion, the "good" addition to elemental was Unrelenting storm, placed at the 20 point mark.  For a pvp or pve shaman i would be 31/0/30 assuming talents remain as they are, only how the points were placed would change.  For mages, elemental builds became stronger because you can now get all the juicy shit in frost (30 points total if you only care about pvp abilities) while still having firepower and combustion (or ice barrier if you like having your 31 point talent purged/dispeled all the time).  AP mages can now jerk off to even higher pyro crits since they can now be a 3-minute-mage AND have firepower.

For shaman, none of the 41 point talents seem worth it.  Totem of Wrath is lol compared to NS unless you are sincere about being a PvE DPS shaman (lol?).  Shamanistic rage isn't even worth considering compared to Elemental Fury.  Nature's Blessing just seems like a kind-hearted attempt by the dev's to ease the pain of being a resto shaman.

For mages, only slow of the 3 41 point talents is worth consideration, and thats only because the points leading up to it have actual merit.

Only locks, current top-dog of pvp (/spit in advance at anyone who disputes), got stuff to compete with the old shit.  Sure that fel guard might have some neat abilities, but the real question is:  Does He Scale?  If not, he is an utter and complete waste of developer time (and player gold spent spec'ing out of that shit).  If he does scale, the question becomes how, and to what degree.  Both of the other 41 point talents have merit, especially the destruction one.  The reason for this is 2-fold.  One, locks want an escape mechanism besides n00bcoil, and two, most destro locks wanted to be able to spend more points in this tree anyway, to max out emberstorm and imp searing pain.  Affliction also has ample reason to reach for the 41 point mark, and everything on the way up isn't utter shit, which is nice.

For mages/shaman, i'd say the main point isn't the new talents, its new combinations of old ones, since you have 10 more talent points total to improve an existing build with.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 09:59:10 PM by Sogrinaugh »
Jayce
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Posts: 2647

Diluted Fool


Reply #91 on: September 06, 2006, 10:00:07 PM

seems half-baked with the 2minute limit and inability to select the buff you are stealing.  Not sure why they didnt just let you steal the buf for whatever duration it has left, or maybe allow some mechanism for player selection of the desired buff.

If it didn't have a 2-minute limit, a mage could have any buff in the game by just getting a player to duel him and steal it, then quit the duel.  Every self-only buff would become a self-and-mage buff.

Witty banter not included.
Morfiend
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Reply #92 on: September 06, 2006, 11:56:30 PM

IRT the huge wall of text.

Rogues got some very good 35 point talents. Pretty much every thing from 25 to 35 is very good with the 41 pointers being kind of week. I see a lot of 21/40 rogue builds. Thats what im going to be doing. With my lock its ether going to be 41 affliction or like 47 destruction.
caladein
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Posts: 3174


WWW
Reply #93 on: September 07, 2006, 12:49:44 AM

For shaman, none of the 41 point talents seem worth it.  Totem of Wrath is lol compared to NS unless you are sincere about being a PvE DPS shaman (lol?).  Shamanistic rage isn't even worth considering compared to Elemental Fury.  Nature's Blessing just seems like a kind-hearted attempt by the dev's to ease the pain of being a resto shaman.

Not to terribly nit-pick, but they've said they want to move Shammies more towards the Caster DPS/Secondary Healer/Support role just like Paladins to the Tank/Secondary Healer/Support role. It's also not to be forgotten that you're increasing Spell Dmg of a Magic DPS group by a shade over 500 with a single talent point, combining that with a Moonkin Druid for the spell crit and Treant, and you have a extremely self-sufficient and dangerous group of casters.

Treant + Innervate + Mana Spring + Blessing of Wisdom + Blessing of Kings = <3

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Merusk
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Reply #94 on: September 11, 2006, 03:14:06 PM

Priest Stuff!

Nowhere near as nice as the stuff people have been linking to for Holy.  The Champion system is apparently part NPC scripting (Probably Morgraine's SM encounter, but who knows.)

The AOE dispell sounds nice, but overall I'm "Meh" about most of it right now.  I imagine the priest forums are in an unholy uproar because they weren't made some sort of mini healing & nuking ubergod.  Time to go check.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978

~Living the Dream~


WWW
Reply #95 on: September 11, 2006, 03:57:03 PM

Priest Stuff!

Nowhere near as nice as the stuff people have been linking to for Holy.  The Champion system is apparently part NPC scripting (Probably Morgraine's SM encounter, but who knows.)

The AOE dispell sounds nice, but overall I'm "Meh" about most of it right now.  I imagine the priest forums are in an unholy uproar because they weren't made some sort of mini healing & nuking ubergod.  Time to go check.
Hah, they are. No new stuff is ever good enough.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
MrHat
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Out of the frying pan, into the fire.


Reply #96 on: September 11, 2006, 04:04:19 PM

To a non-priest, all those talents released look awesome.  Just awesome.
caladein
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Reply #97 on: September 11, 2006, 04:31:25 PM

Mass Dispel and Prayer of Mending look pretty cool. Shadow Word: Death gives some nice Burst for when you need to finish someone off (lack of burst being the one thing that I kinda missed), but has a cost associated to it, which balances it out.

On the talent side, Shadow Power (15% crit :D) and Shadow Mend (burst healing in Shadow Form, nice) stand out to me. Pain Suppression is rather interesting (Shield Wall on a 3min timer), and Imp Divine Spirit is maybe +30ish Dmg/Healing on each caster in the raid, so it's not bad actually for 2 talent points.

As an aside, what's with all the "If Dazed, target = owned" talents? Don't see how useful they could be in PvP (too random to spend the talent points on), maybe they're really PvE talents?

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Merusk
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Reply #98 on: September 11, 2006, 04:46:32 PM

To a non-priest, all those talents released look awesome.  Just awesome.

The holy stuff is actually kind of crap. A 35 point damage talent I might use if I happen to notice I got a crit and it's up?  For what, I'm not doing DPS I'm fucking healing.. that free smite does little.   I think it's meant to be a PvP bone thrown to the Holy PvP crowd.  Empowered healing just means I can further downrank and heal longer from the smaller mana bar.  I don't run OOM often as it is as I'm rarely the one healing the MT, thus my "meh."

Blessed Resiliance is only a 60% chance of being immune to another crit.. after the first I'm usually pretty damn hurt anyway.  This just seems like a cheap way of fixing Blessed Recovery so it works the whole way through instead of being overwritten and starting a new 6-sec heal with a new crit.

The 41 point talent isn't stellar at all, though.  You get R1 at 50 and there's 5 ranks.. so R3 would be level 60.  That's 850 mana for 970 healing - better than Prayer but it's a regen.. so it's 64.6  health/s.  I can't think of too many times I needed to regen multiple folks at once when they weren't taking massive AOE damage so a prayer or flash was the better choice.   I'm willing to give it a shot, but I'm not convinced at its usefulness.

Not sure how I feel about the 41 shadow being a heal, either.  I suppose it's ok, but it seems very pointless.  The other talents look pretty damn nice.  Reduced mana cost for shadow is good because they're always running OOM.  15% extra crit chance? WoW!

Discipline is just ungodly, though.  Some (non priests) seem to be misinterpreting the 41 point talent and going "zomg shield wall for ne1"  Not quite the case but it is effing uber.  I don't believe that it'll stack with PW:S either as some seem to be speculating.

Reflecting shield goes up to 50% (950 at 60, so 475)  Not so uber on it's own at first glance, but you're also not taking that damage AND doing other damage to the targets.  Rawr. 

I really like Improved Divine Spirit, going to forget all about 3 points in Holy just to be sure I pick that up.  Focused Power and Absolution round out Disc very nicely for the PvP/PvE hybred line it is.  I might even look into going Primarily Disc vs Holy so long as I can get some of the nice +healing talents.  (Hey look, I can!  Pretty close to my current holy spec, but I get to pick up a lot of discipline stuff.)


I honestly don't understand the folks bitching about Power Word: Death.  It's a finishing move, easily determined for when you should use it and when you shouldn't - regardless of the damage to self.  They're acting like all the other damage spells had been nerfed and all Priests get is a nuke that damages themselves as well as others.  It's fucking instant cast, you morons! "I could just Mind blast!" no, that's not the point! Yarg!

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
MrHat
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Posts: 7432

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.


Reply #99 on: September 11, 2006, 06:09:57 PM

I was mainly remarking on the Disc. talents.  That reflective talent is just seems awesome.  Way to make a great skill awesome.
Morfiend
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Reply #100 on: September 11, 2006, 06:58:18 PM

I think a Shadow Priest looks really fun to play now. I cant decide if my Blood Elf is going to be Shadow Priest or Offensive Paladin built around Seal of Blood and Avenging Wrath.
SurfD
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Reply #101 on: September 11, 2006, 09:17:47 PM

I think the problem with power word death is that the priest can simply cast renew on themselves, PW: D you, and if it doesent kill you, the renew will have healed all the damage it did to the priest by time the cooldown comes up again.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
Calantus
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Reply #102 on: September 11, 2006, 09:38:26 PM

Looking at the priest talents they're both huge and irritating at the same time. Holy gets the short end of the stick again, what else is new. Fortunately I don't like the focus of holy to begin with so it doesn't bother me too much (disc is better for PVP healing, which is what I prefer). Now Disc looks insane, the only criticism I have for it is there's too many pure damage talents at the bottom end making it hard to avoid them if you don't want them. If they flipped focussed power to all spells it would be a perfect allrounder (so it affects fear), but it doesn't matter if it stays as is, disc is still solid. Shadow... looks pretty insane. I hate shadow with a passion mostly because it's so boring with nothing special to do. SW:D, shades and shadow mend should make it more lively.

So overall I think the priest talents are good, though I'd be looking for a rope right about now if I was a holy/disc priest.
Zane0
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Reply #103 on: September 11, 2006, 10:00:48 PM

They have got to change holy tree.  The 41 pointer is probably one of the worst talents you could spec into.  The effort it would take to drag it onto your action bar literally outweighs any benefit it may theoretically provide..
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 10:02:21 PM by Zane0 »
Evil Elvis
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Reply #104 on: September 11, 2006, 10:32:25 PM

Holy really does need some fixing up.  They need to really look at holy fire/ smite, and the talents affecting those in the holy tree, and completely revamp them.  Priests don't have the survivability to be casting these spells in PvP, and it's laughable to think they'd be used in a raid.  Turning Healing Focus into Holy Focus, and affecting all holy spells would be a start in the right direction.

Then they need to look at spell warding and blessed recovery.  Blessed Recovery needs to stack, and spell warding needs to drop to 2-3 talents.  I justify that by the fact that it's taken into account after resistance checks, and that a holy priest needs all the survivability they can get.

Then they need to slit the throat of whoever came up with lightwell, and put in a decent 31-point talent thats actually useful in a raid setting.
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