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Author Topic: WAR Warhammer preview PC Gamer April  (Read 74944 times)
HRose
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Reply #35 on: March 01, 2006, 04:34:37 AM




I don't think I would have chosen bright colors to paint this world.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 04:39:47 AM by HRose »

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Reply #36 on: March 01, 2006, 04:57:41 AM

And it's not like Mythic cannot go in that direction. This is from DAoC:



And this is Warhammer:

« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 05:02:11 AM by HRose »

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Arthur_Parker
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Reply #37 on: March 01, 2006, 05:35:52 AM

Art direction makes a massive difference to a game, I think it works in WoW very well and from what I have seen of EQ2 not so well. 

The black & white images give a general feel but it's hard to get a grasp for how they would appear in a colour game.

The DAoC image, if that's from the DAoC client then yes, no disagreement from me, that looks miles better than the WAR image.  If the difference is so vast at release, then again, I'd agree they missed the point.
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Reply #38 on: March 01, 2006, 05:58:22 AM

Oh for fuck's sake... do you guys even glance at the miniatures they have up on their site now? They haven't looked like the goddamned concept art in ages.

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/dwarfs/catalog/warriors.htm
Dwarf Warriors.

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/dwarfs/catalog/slayer_lord.htm
Slayer Lord

I could post links all day, but fuck it... I'm going to assume that you can browse the site even if you HAVEN'T to this point.

It's cute and all to shout HURRBLURR MYTHIC FUKKING UP but the screenshots look EXACTLY like their miniatures. This game might blow goat sack but if it does it's not going to be because of the way those screens look.
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Reply #39 on: March 01, 2006, 06:18:39 AM

Pretty much what Modern Angel said. Also, let's not forget that some of those aren't going to be the release versions of the skins. At least I hope not, some of them look like ass. HTe River Troll looked great, the dwarves are way to "low-res" for lack of a better word. But considering the skins they used in DAoC beta versus what they used at release I'm pretty confident they'll mostly be on par with the troll.

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Reply #40 on: March 01, 2006, 06:32:39 AM

I missed the bit were this was a conversation of WFB.

Has anyone told John Blanche yet?  He should know about this being the head of the Art department for GW, he's a big bloke you know so you might want to choose your words carefully.  I don't think he's going to be pleased.
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Reply #41 on: March 01, 2006, 06:42:35 AM


Sketchy? We have already all the elements.

There are shared RvR zones with resource nodes and nearby portals to instanced BGs. Plus a single instance of Alterac Valley/Capital City Raid on each server instead of a "relic raid".

It is EXACTLY the same model of WoW mixed with DAoC's persistence.

So another way to say that would be, it's an entirely new system based off a couple of tried and true functional examples?

Sounds like good design practice to me.

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Reply #42 on: March 01, 2006, 07:07:02 AM

I missed the bit were this was a conversation of WFB.

Has anyone told John Blanche yet?  He should know about this being the head of the Art department for GW, he's a big bloke you know so you might want to choose your words carefully.  I don't think he's going to be pleased.

I'm forced to assume that you either have a closed head wound or haven't touched anything GW in 15 years.

Let me be as blunt as I possibly fucking can: THEY HAVE IGNORED EVERYTHING ABOUT WFRP IN "CANON" FOR A DECADE.

It was licensed out to Hogshead and now Mongoose. It is not carried in their stores. Brettonians have been merry Robin Hood/Camelot rejects since 1996. Halflings shoot cauldrons of soup at people. There is no WFRP as far as the design studio is concerned, John Blanche's nice artwork be damned. That shit? Atmosphere. It is not the Warhammer world anymore.

I know. I've worked for them. I've been to their US and GB headquarters. I've spoken with retail national managers and design studio guys. Until last year I spent more money on miniatures and WFRP books than is healthy for any rational person to do. It's gotten me nothing whatsoever except for this: I can say with no doubt whatsoever that you people whining that it's not gritty like it was the last time you touched the stuff in '86 (JUDAS PRIEST, BEER, AND FUCKING ORCS WOOOOO!) have no clue what you're even complaining about.
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Reply #43 on: March 01, 2006, 07:07:23 AM

Oh for fuck's sake... do you guys even glance at the miniatures they have up on their site now? They haven't looked like the goddamned concept art in ages.
No, YOU are missing the point.

Warhammer is a fucking SETTING. And it can be rendered in many different *styles*. We have PLENTY of proofs of Warhammer in the cartoonish look, as we have about the much more "violent" and realistic look.

The point is NOT who invented a cartoonish look before. The point is:
1- People would appreciate MUCH more a game looking realistic and that is completely different from WoW, exactly to DISTANCE Warhammer from it instead of looking like a bleached copy. This is what would MAKE SENSE even from a commercial point of view.
2- Mythic doesn't handle this style well. It's a lost battle fighting Blizzard right in their house.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 07:10:35 AM by HRose »

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Reply #44 on: March 01, 2006, 07:28:10 AM

It is EXACTLY the same model of WoW mixed with DAoC's persistence. They are simply trying to leech from it, mixing some elements and smoothing the corners. I only see a BIG, GLOWING ENVY for WoW there. For the single element that in WoW sucks so much and should NEVER be taken as a model.

You are an idiot. Please shut your festering gob.

There's nothing wrong with WoW's PVP system other than the idiotic honor points grind, which is merely a refined and more shitty version of the DAoC realm points.

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Reply #45 on: March 01, 2006, 07:36:43 AM

Oh for fuck's sake... do you guys even glance at the miniatures they have up on their site now? They haven't looked like the goddamned concept art in ages.
No, YOU are missing the point.

Warhammer is a fucking SETTING. And it can be rendered in many different *styles*. We have PLENTY of proofs of Warhammer in the cartoonish look, as we have about the much more "violent" and realistic look.

The point is NOT who invented a cartoonish look before. The point is:
1- People would appreciate MUCH more a game looking realistic and that is completely different from WoW, exactly to DISTANCE Warhammer from it instead of looking like a bleached copy. This is what would MAKE SENSE even from a commercial point of view.
2- Mythic doesn't handle this style well. It's a lost battle fighting Blizzard right in their house.

I want you to read what I write very, very slowly to yourself, aloud, as if I were talking to a kid with Down's about sex.

The setting they invented was once very gritty. Now it is not. It has not been for quite sometime. It is sometimes gritty int he fiction they write for the world. It is not visually gritty, however, at all. The roleplaying game is still fairly gritty. They license the RPG out to third party companies and more or less ignore its existence. The artwork is sometimes gritty but the palettes they choose to use on their miniatures is not.

Because you would appreciate a game which is less cartoony looking does not mean "people" will. Games Workshop is a multimillion dollar company that sells what they refer to as "toy soldiers". They do not sell worlds anymore nor do they sell settings. They are a toy company. You are a douche who remembers toking up way back when and jamming to Black Sabbath while pushing little Chaos Marines around a table. Reagan is dead.
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Reply #46 on: March 01, 2006, 07:39:15 AM

Even the style of the weapons and armors is cartoonish and ripped off WoW. They are even imitating the big shoulderpads.

Again, you are a fucking idiot.

WOW was ripped off directly from Warhammer. These designs are vintage Warhammer. Thus, it isn't WoW they are ripping off, but the style of the license which just happened to have been ripped off by Warcraft.

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Reply #47 on: March 01, 2006, 07:55:27 AM

I'm forced to assume that you either have a closed head wound or haven't touched anything GW in 15 years.

Let me be as blunt as I possibly fucking can: THEY HAVE IGNORED EVERYTHING ABOUT WFRP IN "CANON" FOR A DECADE.

It was licensed out to Hogshead and now Mongoose. It is not carried in their stores. Brettonians have been merry Robin Hood/Camelot rejects since 1996. Halflings shoot cauldrons of soup at people. There is no WFRP as far as the design studio is concerned, John Blanche's nice artwork be damned. That shit? Atmosphere. It is not the Warhammer world anymore.

I know. I've worked for them. I've been to their US and GB headquarters. I've spoken with retail national managers and design studio guys. Until last year I spent more money on miniatures and WFRP books than is healthy for any rational person to do. It's gotten me nothing whatsoever except for this: I can say with no doubt whatsoever that you people whining that it's not gritty like it was the last time you touched the stuff in '86 (JUDAS PRIEST, BEER, AND FUCKING ORCS WOOOOO!) have no clue what you're even complaining about.

Which part of Mythic are making a game called Warhammer Online and Mark Jacobs has said he intends to pinch content from any warhammer source are you having difficulty understanding?

I'll even quote it for you.

Quote from: Mark Jacobs
We want to pull in as much material from the Warhammer material as we can to make this a great game. I don't care where it comes from, if it's Warhammer (Fantasy Battles, RPG, Warmaster) and it also can be part of a great game, I want to try to fit it in this game.

Also why are you being so worked up?  rolleyes

I personally would prefer a more gritty art style, however as I said earlier I think the art direction in WoW works very well so as long as the game has an overall feel that works I'm happy.  What did I say exactly that you so strongly object to?  Honestly confused here.

A true converstation of the warhammer world would naturally have content from WFB, WFRP, artwork and novels.  As one of the major problems with a mmorpg is content, why wouldn't it?

Hey I worked for them too, 91-93, met them all, worked at head office etc etc bloody boring etc, how the fuck is any of that in any important?  You are coming across as a bit self important Beardy Nigel to me matey.
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Reply #48 on: March 01, 2006, 08:03:20 AM

Hyperbole on the intarwebs? Whodda thunk it!

I'm more irritated by HRose being... well, being HRose.

As for the art style, those screenshots are perfectly in keeping with their current art direction as determined by the miniatures. Back in 91-93 GW was a company a la White Wolf or old TSR. They were in the business of making games. That's not the case anymore; GW is in the business of making money. I'm NOT one of those Games Workshop is the Evil Empire people by a long shot. They are what they are and that is a publicly traded company who would rewrite every single bit of that precious and fun backstory we all love if they thought it would push more miniatures.

As for Jacobs saying he's going to pull out stuff from all sorts of Warhammer canon? I guarantee you that the GW suits will only let him go so far back. Slaan aren't going to be the creepy degenerate ex-rulers of the world. They're going to be bland rulers of a race of even more boring lizard people.

And that's what I mean. People talk about the great backstory and gritiness and I'm saying that's when they were a GAMES company. They're a TOY company now selling to 14 year old boys, not aging Gen X beardos who grew up on their games.
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Reply #49 on: March 01, 2006, 08:11:09 AM

I want you to read what I write very, very slowly to yourself, aloud, as if I were talking to a kid with Down's about sex.

Dude get the fuck out of thread, if you want attention, buy a dog.
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Reply #50 on: March 01, 2006, 08:50:33 AM

You are a douche who remembers toking up way back when and jamming to Black Sabbath while pushing little Chaos Marines around a table. Reagan is dead.

Haha, eh, yeah I don't know the first thing about Warhammer, but I can always count on some entertainment in these threads.

It's ok HRose. I still think you're a misunderstood genius, you can be wrong about a thing or two occasionally.  wink
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Reply #51 on: March 01, 2006, 09:09:27 AM

Have you seen Namco's version?

Some of the fantasy races like the goblins and the orcs are not exactly "realistic" but they did a rather good work to keep the same "harsh" and dark mood.

While they don't look realistic they also do not look "cartoonish".

It's mostly about the palette of colors used.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 09:13:03 AM by HRose »

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Reply #52 on: March 01, 2006, 09:17:49 AM

HRose makes a decent point, but it seems like its fucking yes-man week around here.

The "look" of the characters in those ss's or whatever they are seems fine.  They look like the miniatures.

The "feel" of the world is off, even in its more modern permutations the Warhammer world (and even more so the 40k universe) is a fairly ugly place.  That isn't to say it needs to be dark and sinister all the time.  But I would expect less rolling green fields then we see in WoW or DAOC's Hibernia realm.  There would be nothing wrong and in fact it would go more with the fluff I've read if the setting looked a little more war ravaged and a lot less golf-course.

@Modern Angel:
As to the comment about Gen-X stoners, if you think that isn't still GW's major market, your a fucking idiot.  I challenge you to go to a fucking game store right now, take pictures of all the people playing GW games and post them in this thread.  The ratio of prep kids or whatever it is you imagine they are targeting (you sound like the bitter fuckhead not HRose on this one) versus dudes with long black hair is not going to be in favor of your theory.

@Haemish:
Do you really want the question "what is wrong with WoW's pvp" answered?  I think that requires its own thread or three.

For my own sanity I am just ignoring the ss's or whatever they are we've seen, that looks so assy I can't believe its for a game that is barely in development.  If they realease with art that is that pathetic this game is already dead (in the sense that GW like LA will expect big things and anything less will result in who knows what kind of fuckups) because shiney interests the general public and those pics were about as nice looking as the pattern pubes make on a public urinal.


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Reply #53 on: March 01, 2006, 10:14:27 AM

Sure, Hoax, you can start a thread about "What's wrong with WoW PVP" but I know where it'll end up. Someone will fuck it all up by saying "IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING!" or some stupid shit that pretty much means the losers don't really lose much and the winners can't epeen over the losers.

The honor system and its rewards are what's wrong with WoW PVP. Otherwise, it's a fun system that even the casual can get some enjoyment out of, at least until you get to the level 60 endgame when the typical mudlfation issues fuck it all up like every other game. I had fun with the PVP and I didn't feel assraped when I lost. What's the fucking problem?

I didn't see anything wrong with the screenshots. Bright and shiney, maybe, but WoW has 50 bafilliontrillion subs. GW canceled the Climax version which looked much more darkey dark. Could the lighter version perhaps be a directive from GW as opposed to an aping of WoW on Mythic's side? I find that a highly likely proposition, but we'll never know because that's the kind of thing no one talks about.

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Reply #54 on: March 01, 2006, 10:30:09 AM

The honor system and the rewards are what is wrong?

Then what is right about it?  (I will totally hijack this stupid thread if possible, aiiiiiiiii)

Lesse, the contested zones are meaningless because in order to compete on even footing in pvp you need to spend all your time either in a BG or in a Raid.  So there goes any world pvp, or feeling of "war" in WoW.

Faction grinds suck.
Honor system sucks.

So what is good?  The pvp sucks less then it did in other games with target + autoattack + hotkeys?  Oh snap give Blizzard another blowjob asap!  WoW's pvp is only special because they didn't completely fucking break the game balance with any of the classes.  I have no idea how they got that lucky considering what an afterthought pvp is, I attribute it to the people at Blizzard actually knowing how to make games, unlike say SoE and having the money to make them right, unlike say Wolfpack.

The pvp itself is fun because fighting inteligent opponents and truly testing your skill is fun.  Not having your dick ripped off when you loose is also a plus.  Often it is fun enough to overlook how much ass the systems that it exists in suck for some amount of time.  Only in this medium where, terrible class imbalances, /played > skill and god awful conversions of CC from PvE to PvP are the norm would we ever consider giving out accolades to WoW for its pvp.

There, I've said it sucks without brining up the fact that it is completely utterly meaningless, has zero impact on the gameworld and has been relegated to "battlegrounds" at which point you might as well be playing GuildWars.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 10:31:57 AM by Hoax »

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Reply #55 on: March 01, 2006, 11:43:21 AM

The honor system and the rewards are what is wrong?

Then what is right about it?  (I will totally hijack this stupid thread if possible, aiiiiiiiii)

Lesse, the contested zones are meaningless because in order to compete on even footing in pvp you need to spend all your time either in a BG or in a Raid.  So there goes any world pvp, or feeling of "war" in WoW.

Nope, you brought up meaningful right there.

FUCK WORLD PVP. FUCK IT IN ITS STUPID ASS. Unless there is no PVE whatsoever, especially no PVE for gaining money/levels/items, world PVP just means that eventually you will get ganked by some nutmuncher you have no chance to defeat. You want an example of why I think having world PVP in a game built around PVP is bad? Hillsbrad. Level 20 Horde players being camped over and over by level 35-40 jackanapes they have no hope of surviving against, much less winning. That's not PVP, that's slaughter. It's fine if you are roleplaying the helpless citizen, it's shit if you are supposed to be some kind of hero. The contested zones give PVP meaning; perhaps that meaning doesn't extend beyond the contensted zone other than as epeen measurement, but it's fun while it lasts and most often doesn't require more time than a casual person has to spend.

Quote
Faction grinds suck.
Honor system sucks.

Yeah. It's the need to cater to the "PVP must MEAN something" crowd.

All the things you mentioned other than the stuff I also agreed with you on is why you don't mix PVE and PVP together in games. And the more PVP MEANS something, the more uber-minded catasses will be the only one for whom its fun. See Shadowbane for examples.

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Reply #56 on: March 01, 2006, 11:51:43 AM

I don't get what people see in world pvp, is that some more acceptable word for ganking?  because thats all it is, one group or person whos ready to fight and expecting pvp vs farmers, questers or a group running to an intance.  Its the worst kind of pvp there is, no world pvp is one of the few good side effects of batttlegrounds and the honor system.

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Reply #57 on: March 01, 2006, 12:18:05 PM




@Modern Angel:
As to the comment about Gen-X stoners, if you think that isn't still GW's major market, your a fucking idiot.  I challenge you to go to a fucking game store right now, take pictures of all the people playing GW games and post them in this thread.  The ratio of prep kids or whatever it is you imagine they are targeting (you sound like the bitter fuckhead not HRose on this one) versus dudes with long black hair is not going to be in favor of your theory.




I didn't say that it wasn't their market. I said they weren't marketing to them as much as the young teens. And that's fucking fact. The GW business model is to grab every single kid that comes in the store, give them a brief demo game while making laser gun noises, and then take kid and parents to the box. Oh my, that box is 70 bucks, the parent might say. Spew some stuff about how dangerous video games are and this is creative. Sell paints.

Independant games stores? You bet. They also don't account for the majority of GW's sales. I can't speak for "back in the day" but as opaque as GW's business model is from the outside it's extremely transparent from the inside. Fuck, I was just some guy being trained for management and I'm getting goddamned future sales battle plans and board meeting rundowns from regional and district manager. The head of GW in the US just waltzes through the stores up and down the east coast telling us all sorts of shit. Contrast that with any other retail job I've ever worked where upper management is just some dude you go bitch to if your store manager tries to give you a hickey.

I'm saying all this not to seem like some insider beardo wank (because I'm not) but to illustrate something. Someone says those screenshots don't look like Warhammer; they look exactly like Warhammer. Someone says that it's just not gritty enough; it's exactly gritty enough. And why? Because Games Workshop does not give two fucks what cool Shadows Over Bogenhafen stuff they did 20 years ago. They don't care if a parent balks at aggressive selling, they don't care if a box of 5 plastic Terminators costs 55 bucks. They care about their IP insofar as it increases their stock and NOT for any sort of artistic integrity.

So, HRose's argument that those screenshots were oh so not gritty enough to match the Warhammer world he became interested in whenever ago doesn't hold water because that world doesn't exist anymore. This game is going to look like the miniatures do because GW sells toy soldiers. They want the synergy going on to get their cut of the game and push more minis.
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Reply #58 on: March 01, 2006, 12:23:49 PM

One of the things Mythic did right with RvR was build a big wall and stick non-instance world pvp on one side, and unmolested pve on the other side.  Want to pvp? Go to the pvp side of the wall.  None of that flag shit.  That, the 3 factions and the relics (even though relic raids were relatively rare) are what made DAoC PvP fun to me.

On the other hand, if there's even the faintest whiff of buffbots in WAR, Mythic can go fuck themselves right up the ass.

Over and out.
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Reply #59 on: March 01, 2006, 12:28:55 PM

I don't get what people see in world pvp, is that some more acceptable word for ganking?

Yes.

People like world pvp because they can continously escalate and eventually prove that they have more friends than the other guy.  They hate 1v1 pvp because I pwn them constantly and they feel bad about their lives as they cry themselves to sleep.

WoW has the most accessible and one of the best balanced pvp systems in any MMOG ever.  People who say otherwise most likely haven't had a wide sampling of the fucked up pvp content that has been offered to those of us who game for PvP.  Do not even TRY to find something in WoW that is utterly fucked beyond comprehension, because I will drop the words "Rifleman" and "Mind Damage" on you in a fucking heartbeat.

Cev, you should come play EVE. It is Shadowbane in spaceships =)

I often pop over to the EVE boards to see if I can decode any of your strange jargon.  I never can.  However, the recent talk of WAR!! got me within inches of downloading the game.  I will consider selling my 2 year old into slavery to see if I can get a little more game time, but I doubt the wife will go for it.

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Reply #60 on: March 01, 2006, 12:31:56 PM

That's absolutely true about WoW's pvp. You take the horrible honor system out of it and you're looking at a pretty damned good setup mechanics and balance wise. Not perfect, mind you, but good. When people say they dislike WoW's pvp they usually mean they hate the honor system.
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Reply #61 on: March 01, 2006, 12:32:38 PM

I don't get what people see in world pvp, is that some more acceptable word for ganking?

Yes.

People like world pvp because they can continously escalate and eventually prove that they have more friends than the other guy. They hate 1v1 pvp because I pwn them constantly and they feel bad about their lives as they cry themselves to sleep.

omg. ur killbotx. can i have ur autograph?
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Reply #62 on: March 01, 2006, 12:35:11 PM

That's absolutely true about WoW's pvp. You take the horrible honor system out of it and you're looking at a pretty damned good setup mechanics and balance wise. Not perfect, mind you, but good. When people say they dislike WoW's pvp they usually mean they hate the honor system.

I just play the amount I'm going to play every week.  PvP the amount I'm going to PvP every week.  Destroy the number of newbs I'm going to destroy every week, and eventually I'll just stop making progress and will be at my cap.  It has not happened yet, but it's looking like rank 10.. maybe 11.. will be my limit.  If you do that then there is no "honor system", there is just a really fun pvp system that may occasionally give you some loot (though it may not!)..

Currently I am only missing 2 pieces of my blue pvp set, and I already have decent blue items on those slots (and I just hit 60 with this character).  I don't think the honor system is really as bad as people think it is..

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Reply #63 on: March 01, 2006, 12:38:29 PM

Honestly? The best times I ever had in WoW pvping was way back when there wasn't an honor system at all. We'd go attack some Alliance city just because. And they'd beat us up and raid back.

When I complain about WoW PVP not meaning anything I'm more complaining about this unreachable carrot that makes everyone act like a fucking douche. It means nothing to 99% of the people and everything to a select few. It's irritating.
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Reply #64 on: March 01, 2006, 01:22:21 PM

I don't think the honor system is really as bad as people think it is..

That's because you're playing it the fun way, not the OMG MUST HAVE PURPLEZ!! Way.  I do the same thing, but only PvP on weekends, and usually skip WSG weekend.  I've made it to Rank 7 3/4 and I'm starting to stall-out.  Really tempted to push on to the blue chest/ legs but it'd kill my fun.  Best to avoid all that and let it happen if it happens.

However, if I were competing to get beyond #220 on the server each week, yeah, I can see what a grind it'd be because Ladders are like that. It just happens that this ladder rewards time invested rather than Kills/ Death ratios and win/loss (which is what the "marks of honor" were supposed to tally until folks got tired of being steamrolled for no gain.)  or some other effecitveness meter or combination therof.   I'm competing with the catasses, and I have a job so I just can't win there.  THAT is where the Honor System really blows.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Arthur_Parker
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Internet Detective


Reply #65 on: March 01, 2006, 01:36:13 PM

I didn't say that it wasn't their market. I said they weren't marketing to them as much as the young teens. And that's fucking fact. The GW business model is to grab every single kid that comes in the store, give them a brief demo game while making laser gun noises, and then take kid and parents to the box. Oh my, that box is 70 bucks, the parent might say. Spew some stuff about how dangerous video games are and this is creative. Sell paints.

You forgot to sell brushes.  Welcome to 15 years ago, I thought you had said GW had changed?  Was there actually someone who didn't know this?

Independant games stores? You bet. They also don't account for the majority of GW's sales. I can't speak for "back in the day" but as opaque as GW's business model is from the outside it's extremely transparent from the inside. Fuck, I was just some guy being trained for management and I'm getting goddamned future sales battle plans and board meeting rundowns from regional and district manager. The head of GW in the US just waltzes through the stores up and down the east coast telling us all sorts of shit. Contrast that with any other retail job I've ever worked where upper management is just some dude you go bitch to if your store manager tries to give you a hickey.

I'm saying all this not to seem like some insider beardo wank (because I'm not) but to illustrate something. Someone says those screenshots don't look like Warhammer; they look exactly like Warhammer. Someone says that it's just not gritty enough; it's exactly gritty enough. And why? Because Games Workshop does not give two fucks what cool Shadows Over Bogenhafen stuff they did 20 years ago. They don't care if a parent balks at aggressive selling, they don't care if a box of 5 plastic Terminators costs 55 bucks. They care about their IP insofar as it increases their stock and NOT for any sort of artistic integrity.

So, HRose's argument that those screenshots were oh so not gritty enough to match the Warhammer world he became interested in whenever ago doesn't hold water because that world doesn't exist anymore. This game is going to look like the miniatures do because GW sells toy soldiers. They want the synergy going on to get their cut of the game and push more minis.

John Stallard was a pretty cool guy especially over a pint discussing Irish politics, so I imagine he hasn't changed much.  

You worked Retail in America your point basically breaks down to GW have nasty retail practices (um yeah, have done for a couple of decades).  GW will not allow Mythic the freedom to give WAR a gritty look because that look doesn't fit the current image of Warhammer as presented in Retail.  That's a load of bollocks, GW like making money, if Mythic put forward a good case for doing something that will make more money, then GW will listen.  

If your point was WAR will look like WoW because WoW makes warehouses of money and GW likes money, I could see it.  But that's not what you are saying. If anything saying GW likes making money is more likely to mean Mythic will have to try harder to impress them considering how bad GW got burnt by Climax.

GW has been targeting rich kids for decades, get over it already.
Modern Angel
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Posts: 3553


Reply #66 on: March 01, 2006, 01:46:27 PM

Warhammer CAN look gritty. It doesn't HAVE to now. 20 years ago? Different story. There was no "red" period back then, Brettonians raped their peasants and Black Adder style jokes abounded. I'll repeat: I'm responding here to anyone who looks at those screenshots (a certain Italian) and flails around shrieking about how it doesn't look like Warhammer.

I approve of targetting fat rich kids. I also have a dog named Gypsy. She's very cute.
Arthur_Parker
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Internet Detective


Reply #67 on: March 01, 2006, 01:52:39 PM

Serious question, how old are you?  I'm just interested to know as you seem to be under the belief you know more history about a company I worked for 15 years ago.
Modern Angel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3553


Reply #68 on: March 01, 2006, 01:57:25 PM

I'm 28. Why? Are we going to have a retarded argument about who knows more?

Do you seriously not see any difference in the way GW conducts itself now as opposed to 15 years ago? Or a difference in the relation between its sales and design wings? I mean, if you don't, cool... cars used to be big but now they can be small. They're still cars. I'm not certain what company you're looking at, though.
Fargull
Contributor
Posts: 931


Reply #69 on: March 01, 2006, 01:59:09 PM

***Nerd fight***

Anyway,

Mythic (at least in my circle of limited MMOG friends) always got the boot because DAOC looked so drab.  The screens look okay, but obviously .. what.. Alpha?  I am excited by the game and hope they darken it to a degree, because I like the gritty world.  I can say from the screens that they have the Warhammer look at least at the model level and not much is seen to say what exactly the world will look.  One thing to keep in mind, part of the cartoony feel with WOW is the fact everything is low poly so the whole pvp war thing can happen.  Damn AV is fun when you get a hugh 30 on 30 battle.

Enough of my tripe, back to the nerd fight...


"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
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